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Introduction :

The difficulty of forming a team of 8 available characters remains one of the most detrimental factors to the accessibility of dungeons. It also makes them generally too tiresome (fights with 8 real players tend to drag on and lack synergy) and motivates players to resort to using multiple accounts to avoid these problems.

So we decided to offer a solution in the 2.7.0 update by introducing a system of scaling dungeon difficulty that allows the mobs inside a dungeon to adapt to the size of the team attacking them. As a result, it will allow smaller teams to access the majority of dungeons.

The dungeon difficulty will adapt to teams of 4 to 8 characters. It will still be possible to do dungeons with less than 4 characters, but the lowest difficulty possible will be based on a group of 4 characters.

How it works :

The system is entirely dynamic (to allow groups to who need to shift their composition mid-run for any reason to continue without interference) and involves almost all the game’s dungeons (only the Lord Crow Dungeon will not yet benefit from this new system in version 2.7.0). Players could, for example, begin a dungeon with 4 characters, continue a part of the dungeon with 6 and then finish it with 5, and the difficulty would adjust each time the size of the character group changes.

When a group starts a dungeon fight, an identical number of monsters will be dynamically added on the opposite team. A monster will be added each time a character joins the fight and removed each time a character leaves, with a minimum of 4 monsters per fight.

The level of the monsters in all dungeon mobs will now be fixed. As long as the group stays the same size, they will always face the same number of monsters per dungeon room.

On mouse-over, the mobs in a dungeon will allow players to see the monsters they’ll face (depending on the size of their group) as well as the monsters they would face if their group were bigger.


Difficulty :

We devised this system so the difficulty would basically be identical regardless of the size of a team of characters (between 4 and 8).
That’s why the number of monsters present in a fight depends on the number of characters attacking them.
We’re also reducing the health points and characteristics of dungeon bosses when they’re faced by less than 8 characters so they can be defeated even with these smaller teams.
We will use the feedback during the Beta phase and stay alert after the release of the 2.7.0 update to make sure that the difficulty of dungeons is properly adjusted for groups of less than 8 characters.

Placement :

Smaller teams will encounter fewer monsters in a fight than bigger teams. As a result, the way the monsters are spread out in the beginning of the fight risks becoming too important (as the number of starting spots will remain unchanged) and the placement of the monsters and the boss may become too random.

Therefore, we changed the way in which monsters position themselves at the start of a fight. Most monsters will now try to stay together at the start of the fight in order to avoid scattering, which favours the players too much. This modification is not limited to dungeons, it will apply to all the monsters in the game.

Structure and length of dungeons :

We took the introduction of this new system as an opportunity to review all of the game’s old dungeons and let them benefit from a reduced number of rooms following the example of the Frigost dungeons (4 rooms and 1 boss room), in order to speed up the progression through dungeons and to allow players to spend less time in fights of little interest.

Additionally, each dungeon room will now contain a number of monsters equal to the number of characters facing them (with a minimum of 4 monsters). The 4 rooms prior to the boss will thus provide fights that are more challenging but also more interesting and profitable.
However, we’re preserving the concept of having the difficulty increase progressively by using more and more powerful monsters throughout the stages of the dungeon.

To use this structure properly we had to revise certain dungeons (the Tofu and Royal Tofu Dungeon are now separated, as are the Tree Dungeon and Soft Oak Dungeon, the Jellith Dimension’s structure is simplified etc.) and change the level of certain monsters or create new monsters to provide the necessary level of difficulty.

Profitability (of drops and XP gains) :

We decided that this adaptable difficulty dungeon system had to offer roughly similar rewards regardless of the size of the team chosen. We did not want a team of 4 characters to be penalised too greatly in comparison to a team of 8 characters, since our goal is to encourage players who have difficulties with creating big teams to participate in dungeons with a comparable level of efficiency.

The game’s prospecting locks now have a maximum value of 400 points in order to grant any team of 4 characters the ability to get all possible drops from monsters.

The probability to obtain drops from the boss will be identical regardless of the size of the team confronting it. However, groups of reduced size will face fewer monsters than larger groups and will therefore get fewer resources from the generic monsters at the end of the fight.

On the contrary, experience rewards will vary according to the size of the team (lower for groups of smaller size), and a group of 4 characters, for example, will benefit from a lower group bonus than a group of 8 characters.
On the other hand, dungeons runs with a small group should be faster to complete (fewer monsters to face and fewer players to take their turns).

We will most likely gradually adjust and balance the experience gains for different group sizes. We don’t want the size of the group of characters to be a deciding factor of the profitability of a dungeon.

Soul stones :
We had to introduce new restrictions to Dungeon Keeper Soul Stones so as to not encourage players to capture boss monsters with 4 characters and then benefit from opening them with a much higher number of characters in the arena.

Each soul stone created in a dungeon will now have an additional parameter which is displayed among its effects and shows the available number of drop shares. If a boss is captured with 4 characters, the soul stone will provide 4 shares of drops in the arena.

For example, if 6 characters attack the group of monsters contained in a soul stone (captured with 4 characters) in the arena, they will suffer from a drop limit and the 6 will be required to share the same amount of drops that would normally be distributed between 4 players. In practice, for each dropped object unlocked at the end of a fight, a test will be conducted to determine if the object will be distributed to a player or not. In our example, for each object that is dropped, there will only be a 4 out of 6 chance that the object will be kept.
Of course this penalty does not turn into a bonus in case the number of characters used to capture the mob is higher than the the number of characters fighting the mob in the arena.

However, we did not want to make the use of soul stones too restrictive and searching the sellrooms unnecessarily cumbersome.
Therefore, for teams of identical size, the composition of mobs in dungeons will be fixed, which will significantly reduce the number of different soul stones of the same boss monster (a boss captured by 4 characters will always create the same soul stone, for example) and thus improve the use of the sellrooms.
In the soul sellroom, a new column will appear and allow to easily search soul stones by the number of drop shares available for each stone.
In the future, only 5 variations of soul stones will exist for each boss.

 

To infinity and beyond:

While these developments are planned for the 2.7.0 update, other important projects need to be addressed in the following updates to complete the dungeon improvements.

The dungeon perceptor system will not be changed in version 2.7.0, which means that a group of 4 characters deciding to attack a dungeon perceptor risks facing a team of 7 characters and 1 perceptor as a defense. We’re studying the possibility of restricting the number of perceptor defenders in dungeons to the number of attackers minus 1 (with a minimum of 3 defenders allowed). This change would facilitate attacking perceptors for teams of a smaller size.

Version 2.7.0 will continue to have disparities between the levels of boss monsters. The older ones generally have a level much higher than the characters facing them to compensate for the lower level of the monsters accompanying them. Over the following updates, we plan to review the boss levels (and the levels of the accompanying monsters) as well as their experience in order to be more consistent and better balanced.

The structure of the Lord Crow’s Library requires deeper modifications for it to be compatible with the new system. We plan to modify it in the next updates so that all the dungeons can without exceptions benefit from these improvements.

In conclusion :

This new system should provide the following benefits:
  • Reduce the gap between players with one account and those with multiple accounts.
  • Improve access to dungeons by making the creation of teams faster.
  • Reduce the average length of dungeons.
  • Refresh the game experience by allowing different team compositions to tackle dungeons.
  • Allow changing one’s team during the dungeon. If a team member has to leave, the difficulty of the following fights is reduced.

We will closely follow your feedback during the 2.7.0 Beta to ensure that the adaptable dungeon difficulty system ADDS to your gaming experience.
By: [Izmar], on 6 June 2012

Comments
271
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UK-FireFighter 09 July 2012 - 15:04
They were fine before and better and more accessible now... people with 8 man teams were the only people running the end game dungoens before, now smaller teams can explore some more... Stop being so selfish.
dezira 09 July 2012 - 14:41

(XehanordHeartless @ 09 July 2012 14:34) *

(dezira @ 09 July 2012 12:42) *

(UK-FireFighter @ 08 July 2012 23:54) *
Average 4 man team sails through all frig 2 dungs, although died in fuji (more due to new map) and havnt tried CB as yet, everything else was easy enough, love the update and i dont see all the moaning from folk considering you made the game more accessible....
You either don't know what you're talking about.. or I don't know.

And you forgot to mention the exp nerf...

Again, the was NO exp nerf. The caps just changed. Also all the dungeons are extremely easy to do now. The only ones that required more effort were the venomous blockhard room in kolosso dung and the new fuji/tengu map.
So basically if you kept the same group of players who soul the dungeon and open the soul after will still result in an xp nerf so I don't see alternatives, the xp is still ruined. When you say extremely easy you mean that 1 less monster of a mob will be EXTREMELY easier to fight? That's just silly, the dungeons were fine before.
XehanordHeartless 09 July 2012 - 14:34

(dezira @ 09 July 2012 12:42) *

(UK-FireFighter @ 08 July 2012 23:54) *
Average 4 man team sails through all frig 2 dungs, although died in fuji (more due to new map) and havnt tried CB as yet, everything else was easy enough, love the update and i dont see all the moaning from folk considering you made the game more accessible....
You either don't know what you're talking about.. or I don't know.

And you forgot to mention the exp nerf...

Again, the was NO exp nerf. The caps just changed. Also all the dungeons are extremely easy to do now. The only ones that required more effort were the venomous blockhard room in kolosso dung and the new fuji/tengu map.
dezira 09 July 2012 - 12:42

(UK-FireFighter @ 08 July 2012 23:54) *
Average 4 man team sails through all frig 2 dungs, although died in fuji (more due to new map) and havnt tried CB as yet, everything else was easy enough, love the update and i dont see all the moaning from folk considering you made the game more accessible....
You either don't know what you're talking about.. or I don't know.

And you forgot to mention the exp nerf...
LordGreyDragon 09 July 2012 - 05:01

(ZombieKing @ 08 July 2012 17:28) *
the exp may be lower but in return you can run the dungoens alot more for the same amount of time it used to take for just one run.
Do people not understand what that means ?

means nothing has really changed. Expect that some dungeons are harder now (which just makes it all the more interesting) and they increased the minimum droprate to 1% and lowered maximu dropcap to 400 pp.
How is that bad?
so you need more kays to run a dungeon several times now? that just gives people a source of income which seems to be needed anyway.
Let us look at the bold parts shall we.The exp is lower so you have to run the dungeons more to get the same exp, but a lot of the dungeons are harder now for many dungeons it takes longer to run them and because you have to run the dungeons more times to get the exp you were getting before it costs you more for keys.

I hate making general statements but here goes.

For some groups,guilds and multi-account players the dungeons are and have been easy the majority of players do not fall into one of those groups and for them it would be better if this system was optional.
UK-FireFighter 08 July 2012 - 23:54
Average 4 man team sails through all frig 2 dungs, although died in fuji (more due to new map) and havnt tried CB as yet, everything else was easy enough, love the update and i dont see all the moaning from folk considering you made the game more accessible....
XehanordHeartless 08 July 2012 - 23:26

(siruspool @ 08 July 2012 23:21) *
Zombie i am guessing you havent reach frig two yet ? As that is where most players lvl 15x+ usually reside. When you do get there tell me how it went kay . This dungeon system is soo flawed sure dp is short, cros is aswell, but thats nothing compaired to that players lost in general. Only market that hasnt changed really was the origin market and i am sure alot of people would rather f2p zaap sit than buy and sell those.

I have done all dungeons so far and I don't see how we lose anything. The only 2 problems I encountered were with kolosso's 1st or 2nd room (the one with the venomous blockhards) and the fuji + tengu map.
siruspool 08 July 2012 - 23:21
Zombie i am guessing you havent reach frig two yet ? As that is where most players lvl 15x+ usually reside. When you do get there tell me how it went kay . This dungeon system is soo flawed sure dp is short, cros is aswell, but thats nothing compaired to that players lost in general. Only market that hasnt changed really was the origin market and i am sure alot of people would rather f2p zaap sit than buy and sell those.
Purrrdy 07 July 2012 - 23:07

(Tropical-Ace @ 07 July 2012 01:29) *

(Purrrdy @ 07 July 2012 00:47) *
Is there any way for this update to be optional or just cancelled? I mean this only forces me to multi-account even more, This is not helpful at all to us small time players. I run blop dungeon for drops to craft blop stuff and all the while getting good xp, In 1 run I usually would have enough materials to craft 2 of any desired blop stuff to sell in the market for a little bit of profit to keep me subscribed through ogrines and to keep me useful in the Kollosieum. This update does not affect those lvl 180+ who probably has 8 other characters they run around with in dofus, this is just unfair to those people whose only means of competing with those "high levels" are to run and grind those small dungeons to sell the resources they drop to keep them geared. I mean this just created a whole new problem, How are these people gonna be able to enjoy the benifits of Kollo when they cannot even make kamas through the dungeon to get gears that would help them stand a chance of winning?. Proffesions? Souling? Joining a good guild? dropping stuff of mobs? Those types of suggestions only comes from mouths of people who are with his/her team of 8 lvl200 characters fully scrolled, geared to perfection so its easy for them to say yeah this dungeon update is not that bad and all the other stupid stuff the say.
Is there any plans on modifying this whatsoever? I mean the resource market is all fu**** up people from small servers are dying here ankama, Do something about this stupid idiotic moronic Idea, its been 1 stupid update after another.


With all these "good" ideas you come up with that you think keeps players interested? like Mr and Ms Ankama, another new livi's? and all these other stupid stuff you all come up with, why not actually listen to the players and do something about the class updates, the kollosieum killing the pot creating proffesion and this......"Adaptable Dungeon Difficulty System bullcrap".
One thing that keeps poping up on here, and imps is this new overall dislike of the ADDS system, I just have question. Where were you during the Beta? The Beta server is put out there for players like you, who have some concerns over the system to test it out and see if it's good or bad. When the players don't speak ahead of time the devs feel like this is a good update, push it out, and then are met with harsh criticism from players. A short answer to your question is no, the chances of the update being cancelled is almost 0%, judging from past history. As for some advice from someone who doesn't have a full team of 200's (let alone a full team at all) learn to adapt (Sorry for being harsh!) Dofus is a MMO. MMOs constantly change and mold around their target player base. It's not a very easy feeling having change, I understand, but getting upset about it isn't going to help (Also, funfact - The devs don't read the English forums, so you addressing your ... (Anger?) Isn't really doing anything other then showing other players and possibly Izmar that you're upset.


Also, on the subject of your last paragraph. The people who come up with the events, living item hats and other fun stuff are probably compleatly different then the people who are in charge of new Dofus systems, UI and class balancing. I'm sure it's the CCMs who make the neat little events, and the marketing team and or art designers make the living item hats. I doubt Lichen and Seyroth sit around a room and go "Hey guys, instead of fixing -insert player's concern here- we're going to make a fashion show!!!! FABULOUS ~!!!! (I hope they allow gifs here


Where was I during the Beta Testing? I was in school, I actually have other things to do besides go on the Beta testing as I said I am a casual small time player who probably does not spend more than 9-10 hours a week on dofus. and Learn to adapt? Easy for you to say since your already level 200 with all the fancy para items you have on and you probably belong to a good guild and is probably in a big or medium server so this Update does not affect your elite a** but this update means that I would have to spend twice or even more time to make kamas in order to sustain myself through this game. So your "learn to Adapt" crap does not work for me since I actually have a life? Lastly, I thought that the people who come up with all these "fun" events to keep players from being "interested" in the game are also the same people that are responsible for making sure that the concerns and problems of players like me are heard? I actually play this game since I find it fun and its a great stress reliever so I casually play the game, Judging from your level and the jobs and activities you have done this update is nothing to you. You a lvl 200 Panda from Critical-Failure residing in rushu which if I remember someone mentioned in the forums is the biggest english server? (correct me if im wrong) probably run a dungeon with your guildmates, get the same drops, the same xp like this change didnt happen at all. But for us small time players? this is one of the signs that says maybe its time to quit dofus since it only caters to people like you.... Oh and P.S. A Zenith Member right? well let see... "_The Zenith is a collection of experienced and well-rounded players who are responsible for reading and collecting all of the opinions and input of our community about DOFUS, and then summarizing these opinions for the developers. They are people of exceptional talents:curious, intelligent, diplomatic, eloquent, experts in English, respectful, and above all...they love DOFUS."

So what happens then Mr.Zenith??
Deadset 07 July 2012 - 23:04
Was there any change in meat drops rate (Pork loin**** and Dragomeat****) from dragon pig? I made a big number of 4-loot DP souls in arena (with 4 characters) and the drop rate for hunter meats is significantly lower than it was before update, at the begining I was just thinking I'm unlucky, but I had several Scanty challenges, which should give me certain drop on 450 pp and it didnt.

I dont have any 8-loot souls to try on them, so I just guess it can have anything to do with the new soul system?