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Class Improvement - Ecaflip

By [Ankama]DOFUS - ADMIN - February 20, 2019, 17:57:29
AnkaTracker

This topic is intended to gather your ideas and suggestions on improvements to the Ecaflip class.
Please, keep in mind that class balancing focuses on both PvP and PvM at once.

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First Ankama intervention

Replying to mythici

Thank you for this detailed feedback!  We've noticed something that went unnoticed for almost a year: The Variant Spell for "=1.5remHeads
or Tails" has mistakenly been ALSO called "Head or Tails" (In FR, the first is "Pile ou Face" while the variant is "Face ou Pile"...) so we'll try to fix that.

See message in context
Reactions 21
Score : 431

As for now eca got stronger dmg than iop, survi like feca, and mobility as tofu.. Also he got erosion.. Not to much as for 1 class? Mayby he should be betwen them?
like Lower dmg than iop but better survi
higher dmg than feca but worse survi
​​​​​​what do u think?
in past his role was dmg, or support (healing and buffing dmg) mayby its time to back to that?

also the most important.. He is not gambler anymore.. He should be a bit more random, lacky or not!

4 -6
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Score : 1632

Disagreed, I think the Eca is in a fairly good spot atm. Maybe a bit dull but not OP. Trickery is a luck factor and besides Eca is not about luck anymore (which is a good thing) but about trade-offs. Eca only needs some minor changes to make some variants more usefull but the class is generally not too strong or weak.

6 -4
Score : 520

I'm a long-time Ecaflip player and currently one of the best in Dofus, so I have a lot to contribute to this discussion. Most of my experience is in Solo and 3 v 3 Kolossium so I'll mostly focus on balancing in that sphere. I've tended to avoid playing the meta Ecaflip builds (currently Pure Chance/Crit/Distance), instead finding success with unusual setups such as Pure Wisdom, Pushback, and Heal/Support.

Ecaflips have been through many, many iterations over the years. Starting as an almost exclusively Strength class, they began as mid to close range fighters with a heavy emphasis on luck. Almost every spell had variable factors, whether it was power bonus effects on crits, a chance to self damage, skipping your own turn, or massive base damage variance (Bluff from 1~45 Base Damage, AoN from 4~76). Ecaflips weren't the heaviest hitters (except on extremely lucky rolls, like Rekop), but they had access to a great many spell effects: Damage, Healing, AP/MP/Range Debuffs, Pushback, Damage/Vitality/Crit buffs, and a Summon.

Even in those early days when almost every spell was Strength-based unusual or unorthodox builds surfaced - With only one Intel spell (Topkaj) and 5:1 Intel characteristic investment, Intel/Healer Ecas found a niche, using All or Nothing's MASSIVE 8~76 Area of Effect heal to serve as a team's off-healer. Agi/Cha/Crit Ecaflips used Bluff's guaranteed 55 base crit damage to become formidable mid-range damage dealers. Omni Ecaflips spammed Rekop and prayed against Crit Fails.

This versatility suits the Archetype of "warrior gambler," and is my favorite part about the class. In my opinion, the most enjoyable time period for Ecaflips was before the Spell Variant update. A huge number of builds were viable, and Ankama had just embraced Chance and Healer Ecaflips with a change to the Clover spell, sending them into the Lucky Devil State. It allowed Ecaflips to become competitive healers, capable of healing ~1500 per swing of a Thanos Staff, ~450 per Heads or Tails, with additional AoE heals from All or Nothing + Perception. It also fleshed out Chance, Agility, and Lifesteal Builds, stealing health on Playful Claw, Reflex, and Felintion. Ecaflips could now give up some damage for 3 turns in exchange for access to enhanced team support, at the HUGE risk of becoming unhealable when Clover wore off. A fitting trade for a gambler.

Additional features from that era were Claw of Ceangal's 2 AP reduction when its target received healing, comboing with Heads or Tails to open up another unique AP reduction Strength/Agility build. Pure Wisdom was also extremely viable with CoC + Larval Wand taking 6~10 AP per turn -especially effective when combined with Fate of Ecaflip's MP Reduction and Smell's control.

The Spell Variant update was a mixed bag for Ecaflips. They're undoubtedly stronger fighters now, with incredibly high sustained and burst damage through their Chance build. They also have much stronger sustain with Misadventure and Healing Kitten (and Pussycat, although I've yet to see another Ecaflip use this underrated spell). However this powerful damage was directly at the expense of some their more unique builds. Agility Ecaflips have been entirely left by the wayside, losing their niche as the Anti Healer (Erosion+AP Reduction); Bravado is a nice spell, but it's role is filled much better by Craps, and Claw of Ceangal's 2 square pushback only has half benefit from Bravado's buff. Yowling's healing is nice and a welcome addition, but was at the expense of Heads or Tail's reliable ranged healing.

After the update I was quite disappointed with the new Ecaflips, as most of the luck-based, strategic play was made obsolete by Chance and Strength's incredible damage. However, I have come to appreciate many of the changes and have found my niche again. I would, however, like to recommend some changes to reduce Ecaflips' power in meaningful ways while re-introducing versatility.

  • Re-introduce AP Reduction to the Agility build, allowing Agility Ecaflips to emerge as Anti-Healers again. Currently Reflex's 13% Erosion is not worth building around when Corollary provides 45% for the same AP cost. This could be added to Reflex or Bravdo, or in some other way entirely. Currently, Agility Ecaflips compare infavorably to Strength and Chance in every way.
  • Remove the Heads or Tails (Variant) 150 Strength Gain on Crit. It is rarely used, and Ecaflips already have lots of access to Power (Wheel of Fortune, Summoning Claw). Replace with an Intelligence-scaling heal, or preferably revert this spell to the old "Deal Earth Damage then Heal - more damage to enemies / more healing to allies." This would prop up Ecaflips as a viable Healer, and create an Agility/Strength niche again.
  • Remove Godsend and Replace something new, like a variant of the Lucky Devil State. Ecaflips already have a LOT of % Healing: Perception, Summoning Stroke, Pussycat, Lucky Star. Godsend is overkill, and extremely powerful for 2 AP (when enemies can't take advantage of the damage taken debuff). Suggestion: +Heals, -Final Damage, +Dodge? Perception Heals all allies in AoE?
  • Misadventure to 5 or 6 AP, one cast per turn, damage up. It is currently an insanely powerful, spammable spell that requires very little thought to use: "Is my Health not full? Are two enemies set up for the Area of Effect? OK, use the spell." I'd prefer Misadventure to be a BIG moment for Ecaflips, requiring setup to get the maximum effectiveness, with a big payoff. Like Rekop!
  • Rekop. Rekop looks great on paper, but in practice is fairly lackluster as the game has evolved. Ivory Dofus is currently a hard counter to the spell; not only does it reduce 160 linear damage, but it also cuts the spell damage in half if Ivory's protection has not been removed (and everyone has an Ivory in >5000 kolo rating). Rekop should be a big risk for a potential big payoff - spending a lot of AP for delayed damage. Having it reduced to some ~400 damage by a single Dofus feels really, really bad. Suggestion: Make Rekop work like a poison, ignoring Ivory and linear resistances like Feca's Rampart.
  • Reduce damage across the board.

Overall I'd like Ecaflips' damage to be reduced but for them to have the options they used to. Most of the specific changes I've listed will appear to many to be straight buffs, and will likely be criticized. However, I'd encourage readers to remember that the spell variants I've listed are rarely used, and these changes would simply make them competitive with their other builds and spell variants. 
Some final notes on the state of the game, not specifically related to Ecaflips:

I'm extremely happy with the direction Ankama has taken the game over the years. Embracing unsual builds, opening up player choices, and creating extremely interesting and new mechanics (Xelor Revamp, Pushback builds, Spell Variants). They've made some hard and unpopular choices along the way, such as the widely hated (but sorely needed) Weapon Revamp, the switch to 2.0, Profession overhauls, and Server Merges. Some features have been total flops, of course, like Dungeon Finder and Community Challenges, but overall it's been a great decade for the game. However, there are a few things I'd love to see Ankama look at and try to solve.
  • Damage Creep. Final Damage shields and better equipment have contributed to this issue, but the biggest offenders in 3v3 are stackable buffs that result in a super Burst-focused meta. In a tactical, turn based game it feels really bad to get oneshot by a 19AP, 10MP Iop who has +600% power from buffs - often there is no way to respond other than "Burst them before they burst you." These spells and buffs are fine on their own, but when they're combined they become a problem.
  • My Suggestion is to take the approach used several years ago that prevented 3 Enis from stacking Stimulating Word on eachother, and create Max Effect Accumulation caps that span across similar buffs. Categories would be: 
    • AP Buffs: Stimulating Word [Eniripsa], Relay [Osa], Oscillation [Xelor's Dial], Coalition [Eliotrope],
    • AP Boost: Haziness [Xelor], Smell [Ecaflip], Precipitation [Iop], Mutual Assistance [Eliotrope], Miserliness [Enutrof]
    • MP Buffs: Whip [Osamodas], Armadur (Masqueraider), Cabal [Eliotrope],
    • MP Boost: Pandurinas [Pandawa], Acceleration [Enutrof], Life-Giving Word [Eniripsa], Catnip [Ecaflip]
    • Power Buff: Whip [Osamodas], Wheel of Fortune [Ecaflip], Focus [Eliotrope], Power [Iop], Fortune [Enutrof], Self-Sacrificing Word [Eniripsa], Powerful Shooting [Cra]
    • Excluded(?): Kaboom Buffs [Rogue], Dollish Acceleration [Sadida's Inflatable], Huppermage buffs, Greed [Enutrof], Toolbox [Enutrof], Summoning Claw [Ecaflip], others not listed - These buffs require significant setup or have special circumstances in their use.
  • These spells would overwrite eachother when cast on the same character, prevent excessive stacking and spreading out power between characters on a team, rather than concentrating it in one character. An Ecaflip with Wheel of Fortune, Smell, Stimulating Word, and Life-Giving Word [+5AP/2MP/350 Power] is manageable, but one with Wheel, Smell, Stim, Life-Giving, Self-Sacrificing, Coaltion, Focus, and Cabal [+7AP/5MP/900 Power] will simply kill an enemy before their team has a hope of responding. There is little counter-play.
  • A final suggestion would be to standardize equipment values like Wakfu's system, where every gear gives a set, fixed number of stat points. Smithmaging would augment this system by changing the values by a percentage of the base value or adding an Exotic stat. Example:
    • Broucey Belt now gives:
      • 400 Vitality
      • 100 Strength
      • 30 Wisdom
      • 2 Range
      • 6% Critical
      • etc.
    • When crafted for the first time, it might look like this:
      • 360 Vitality [90% Value]
      • 85 Strength [85% Value]
      • 27 Wisdom [90% Value]
      • 1 Range [100% Value]
      • 4% Critical [70% Value, rounded]
    • Magus would then repair values, and overmages could go above 100% as normal. This would make it MUCH easier for Ankama to patch a piece of equipment by simply increasing or decreasing the base values if they release an item that is not tuned properly.

Thanks for the read, and I welcome any feedback.
11 -2
Reply

Thank you for this detailed feedback!  We've noticed something that went unnoticed for almost a year: The Variant Spell for "=1.5remHeads
or Tails" has mistakenly been ALSO called "Head or Tails" (In FR, the first is "Pile ou Face" while the variant is "Face ou Pile"...) so we'll try to fix that.

Score : 420

Recently started with Ecaflip so can't make any direct comparisons to pre-variant Ecas, but I'm inclined to agree with the above post in regards to some pretty useless spell variants and a lacking Agility branch. The Heads or Tails variant, Spell Strike, Ecaflip's Audacity and Peril are all pretty unimpressive as far as variants go.

Spell Strike in particular is pretty awful, it's a watered down, boring version of roulette, only advantage it has is costing 1AP for a 3AP Claw of Ceangal slide.

0 0
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Score : 520

Audacity is nice for Distance Damage Strength Ecaflips who can use Audacity diagonally - it was bonkers strong on release, and has since been nerfed slightly.

Peril I've not found a good use for yet... on paper it looks like it could be great as Intel/Chance or against Sadidas (safe Summon damage), but I've simply not tried it.

Personally I use Spell Strike over Roulette for a 1 AP pushback target (and to avoid enemies getting +400 of their element), but I wouldn't mind it being removed in favor of another spell. Good addition there!

0 0
Score : 274

this is just a suggestion...and its not correctly but its a concept to a much bigger plan, pardon my french..

i've been playing the Ecaflip as second main for 6 years, and had a friend since the beginning of dofus who played an Ecaflip, so...as stated in ''you tell us'' here's my feedback O' the ''unpredictable fighter''...

he's not so unpredictable anymore, that much can i say, you have too little AP to use all the damage buff's and attack decently in that turn, personally i don't like the roulette as being a summon, that was kinda dumb, but maybe that's just me, but this class with the spell variants kinda killed it for me as the unpredictable fighter...

so how would i tackle ''unpredictable''? 
first of all, this is not only to ecaflip, but also to other classes, maybe its time, given the ''CORE'' role they deserve, maybe its high time to add more core mechanics aswell
for the Ecaflip, i suggest a mechanic to build up ''Opportunity''! (up to a certain amount of 500% (lvl 1)  - 10000%? (lvl 200) that can also drop completely 0%) (the effectiveness of the spell and its current usefullness) per character lvl it will look like this:
lvl 1-10: raises ''opportunity'' cap by 5% per lvl
lvl 10-30: raises ''opportunity'' cap by 10% per lvl
lvl 30-60: raises ''opportunity'' cap by 15% per lvl
ECT

let me explain: the critical system goes away for the ecaflip, instead of that, the effectiveness of all spells (offensive and devensive) and weapon... are based on that percentage of ''Opportunity''
the way to gain ''Opportunity'' is to use spells that raise the ''chance to do much effect'' amount, but based on your ''Opportunity'' that spell/weapon is just so much effective, you have to gamble with what you have, this will raise or drop oppurtunity aswell (50/50)
your amount of ''opportunity'' will drop significally accordingly whenever you use a spell that deals a big amount of base dmg, or a strong utility spell (like wheel of fortune) this spell will give you power
based on ''opportunity''

i can give an example on ''wheel of fortune'' and ''summoning the kitten''
on lvl 50: lets just say the ''opportunity'' cap is 1050%, but you have just 200%
you use the summoning and get a kitten with just low HP and almost no base power on it, it hit not much and it only stands in the way and is dead after 3 bites of gobball, pretty simple kill
and with wheel of fortune you just get 50% power, not much to hit with and overall dull
okey lets re-roll this situation, your ''oppurtunity'' cap is 1050% and you have 800%
you use the summoning and get a kitten with decent life for a lvl 50 kitten, decent attack, even some resistance and even more...
you use wheel of fortune and get 200% power, not bad...you can pack quite a punch and even save yourself

with this new mechanic, what fits very well with the theme ''unpredictable'' in my opinion atleast, to make this even more unpredicable, no one else can see your ''opportunity'' percentage but you
this core mechanic is affected by allmost every spell or weapon, and depens your entire battle and that of the group
however, this gets rid of alot of spells that are really dull in my opinion, (Clover, Roar, wheel of fortune (spells) kitten with the percentage attack power) and what more...
i suggest bringing back the lucky devil state, this spell will be directly affected by ''opportunity''
according how much it heal and how much dmg it takes away from you, the higher the ''opportunity'' the better the spell will be
the spell roar could be changed in ''Gauge gato'' this spell will increase the opportunity by 150% and will increase opportunity gain by 75% of all spells for 2 turns with a 5 turn cooldown...
wheel of fortune gets back to its original state, what is giving percent damage overall

again, this is just a concept of how i would change the ecaflip to be more ''unpredictable'' and to move closer to its CORE!!

thanks for reading, if you have any questions, i will gladly answer them smile


 

2 0
Reply
Score : 420

Some nice examples of Ecaflip spells from Wakfu:
D-Six: Moderate fire damage on hit, 1/6 chance of dealing double damage (e.g. when rolling a 6).
All or Nothing: 2AP high damage spell, however 50% of the time the Ecaflip also takes the same amount of damage.

The passives in Wakfu also provide some cool mechanics, a rough equivalent to Roulette is Tarot, which provides a random effect at the start of each turn, most of these only effect the Ecaflip, but some effect everyone similarly to Tarot. The most powerful of these gives the Ecaflip +2AP for the turn and maximizes spell damage rolls, the worst gives -2AP and minimizes spell damage rolls. In addition they have pretty wide variation on spell damage rolls, which makes these latter two cards really good and pretty bad respectively.

Another mechanic is Lucky Day, every time a fire spell is cast there is an associated roll in the range of 1-6, this stacks as a state on the Ecaflip, if it reaches 42 they gain +3AP for the turn, however if it rolls past 42, it resets to 0.

I definitely agree Ecaflip needs more chance mechanics (though not to the extent that they can be completely useless for a turn if unlucky). Heck after Ecaflip's last revamp on Wakfu people said it didn't have enough random chance elements, but current Dofus Ecaflip has even less.

0 0
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Score : 274

agree'd, the wakfu ecaflip's still nice to play with

0 0
Score : 1978

topkaj may need improving, pawpads does more and has a secondary effect. pussycat and luckystar may be good ideas but in comparison to their counterpart it sits at the back. as for heads or tails the old version where it heals made int more viable, int was considered unplayable when topkajs damage was reduced and the healing was reduced to gimmicks. 

edit
how to make eca more of a gambler? make ecaflips luck be targetable to enemy, change roulete to
2 different outcomes like this

(roll of 1-5)"scared" = -15%resist, next turn "alive" +15% resist 
(roll of 6)"fatality"  = rekop triggers
2 ap cost, max accumulation of 1 cooldown 1

make topkaj act as a 1 cell trap(maybe bomb?) when not targeting enemy
you can cast topkaj to same cell up to 3 times then it explodes
 

1 0
Reply

The accompanying graphic allows us to view the results of this first survey for the Ecaflip class.

 
  • Dommages - Damage
  • Survie (soin, protection, et tanking) - Survival (healing, protection, and tanking)
  • Amélioration - Improvements
  • Placement - Placement
  • Entrave - Debuffer
  • Vision actuelle - Current vision
  • Vision idéale - Ideal vision


In red, you can see the ideal vision you have for each class role. The blue profile presents the current vision and feeling in the game.

Like most classes, Ecaflips have two similar (but not identical) profiles – the class as it is today is in line with what players expect.

It is noted, however, that you see the class as far too powerful compared to what you would like.

This is part of the information we'll take into account when balancing classes. Your comments will also help us to put the diagram into perspective by providing us with a more-concrete vision that is closer to the in-game reality.
We'd also like to remind you that in order to solve perception divergences, nerfing and upping aren't the only tools we have at our disposal.

You can see the class comparison on the main topic.
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Score : 4

Eca is greatly overrated in "Current vision" and pretty much useless in "Ideal vision". Eca definitely does not do more dmg than Iop or Cra.

3 -5
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Score : 66

Really? Water eca hits 1300 per 3 ap (e.g.bluff) + all or nothing, kraps, there comes 5k+ damage per turn.

2 -2
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Score : 4

Since I didn't write any numbers nor did I claim that Ecas deal low damage:

1. Can you please back your statement about that kind of damage with a link to a set on DofusPlanner or similar site that enables that kind of damage (otherwise I will assume the number is made up wink).

2. If I assumed correctly that you are replying to my statement "Eca definitely does not do more dmg than Iop or Cra.", are you implying that Iops and Cras can't do 5k damage (or more) per turn? wacko

Additionally since you mentioned AoN, it has 2 turn cooldown so it can't be used every turn and it also deals that damage back to caster next turn.

2 -3
Score : 274

i don't like where this diagram is going with...
the only thing this class needs is a fresh idea, and i gave a general idea on how i tackle ''unpredictable''

btw, this diagram was actually pretty predictable, but ecaflip isn't unpredictable.
right now, he's a wannabe iop!

hear me, developers, if i had the chance, i'd take over ecaflip from here, and show you back the way to the core of this class!

1 -1
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Score : 59

Ecas need buff.... 













:3

4 -1
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Score : 55

Idk if this thread is still active, but one spell that needs to be changed in my opinion is the variant of Heads of Tails. It's 3 AP and can only give the caster a buff of 150 str, that you also must cast on a Target and can't cast it on yourself which makes it even less good. I think the spell doesn't do anything useful since you also have Roar (100 power buff per enemy). If it was agi it could be somewhat useful, to get Dodge/Lock I guess? I see no point of having that variant.
Cause of variants Int ecaflips, especially healing ecaflips, disappeared. Why not make the variant like the old Heads or Tails, or make it only heal since you now have crit dam as a Eca. That to me would revive int and healing Eca. 

TLDR; Make HoT variant into old HoT so it can heal.

1 0
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Your feedback on the Ecaflips is very interesting. Generally speaking, you feel that: The water, earth, multi-element, and pushback modes are very fun to play, easy to learn, and viable in both PvP and PvE.
However, we note that you do not find the fire and air elements fun or viable for either PvP or PvE.

In the forums:
We also noticed that the Clover spell is the subject of much debate. As is the question of luck-based games and the random aspect that are characteristic of the class. Many of you would like to give a truly random aspect involving players' luck back to the class.

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Score : 1

I have playing the air damage by thrust build but I feel it needs another air spell other than the one that is 50% chance

0 0
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