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Class Improvement - Sadida

By [Ankama]DOFUS - ADMIN - February 20, 2019, 17:57:32

This topic is intended to gather your ideas and suggestions on improvements to the Sadida class.
Please, keep in mind that class balancing focuses on both PvP and PvM at once.

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First Ankama intervention

The accompanying graphic allows us to view the results of this first survey for the Sadida class.

  • Dommages - Damage
  • Survie (soin, protection, et tanking) - Survival (healing, protection, and tanking)
  • Amélioration - Improvements
  • Placement - Placement
  • Entrave - Debuffer
  • Vision actuelle - Current vision
  • Vision idéale - Ideal vision

In red, you can see the ideal vision you have for each class role. The blue profile presents the current vision and feeling in the game.

Like most classes, Sadidas have two similar (but not identical) profiles – the class as it is today is broadly in line with what players expect.

It is noted, however, that you see the class as slightly more powerful than you would like in terms of damage, survival and preventing movement.

This is part of the information we'll take into account when balancing classes. Your comments will help us to put the diagram into perspective by providing us with a more-concrete vision that is closer to the in-game reality.
We'd also like to remind you that in order to solve perception divergences, nerfing and upping aren't the only tools we have at our disposal.

You can see the class comparison on the main topic.
See message in context
Reactions 23
Score : 1839

Thank you for this opportunity!

Strength and agility builds are in a fairly good spot. Chance and intelligence are not even worth playing IMHO. What I propose is to merge the summons spells with their respectable variant as these take up way too much of the spell book. Instead the current variants there would be space for more healing, buff, int or chance focused spells in order to give these builds some more viability. 

The Sadida is a jack of all trades anyways so giving him more options without massively increasing his output is a great way to go. Besides, summons are often useless in high-end dungeons or even against whole groups of mobs. So giving an alternative that isn't a summon would be a great change. According to me at least. 
 

7 -2
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Score : 855

Love infected state and im impressed that ankama nerfed IT but didnt killed. Over all i see only 2 things which are painfull for me.
1- Max cap of tree in 1 time, now sadi can make a Forest from sahara.. Xd
2 Debuffs should have max cap per target and whole his team.
expl: u can reap only 25%* OF your oponent ap/MP - pvp
​​​​​​60%* - pvm
IT will stop of abusing cancer build in pvp and brainless range teams in pvm.

*- for now its Just radom but IT is possible to count IT and balans

0 -8
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Score : 447

There are counterplays against AP and PM reap, like trophies and resistances. Basically you want Ankama to do this job for the player so they can build their sets without thinking about debuff resistances, while the classes that uses this mechanic have to sacrifice status to aquire AP and PM removal.

9 -3
Score : 549

Sadidas are impressively balanced in 3 v 3, requiring a lot of set up to become an unkillable Forest God. My only note is that Groute's Variant applies Poison for 3 turns in an AoE, which is a long time for how easy this spell is to land. I understand that it takes 7 AP, but the reward for poisoning all members of an enemy team is enormous. Simply reducing it to 2 turns would be fair, and allow enemies to respond by avoiding contact with the Sadida for a turn.

1 -2
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Score : 4519

I think the class is overall quite balanced, but the strength build is very dominant with both powerful attacks and versatile effects, while chance and intelligence builds are underwhelming. Here are some suggestions:

Repotting: Change this spell to require an empty cell target. The nearest leafy tree from the target is moved to the target, and an un-grown tree is planted in its original position. This makes the spell more useful for spells like Earthquake, Shake, and Plaguing Bramble, rather than being just a booster for Force of Nature as it currently is.
Voodoo Curse: Water damage is triggered not by AP removal, but whenever an ally tree is summoned or grows to a Leafy tree. This improves synergy with the chance build and other Sadida spells.
Manifold Bramble: Change to fire damage. Strength Sadidas will mostly use Force of Nature instead anyway, so might as well give the intelligence build another direct attack which they sorely need, and reinforce their area damage specialty.

2 -2
Reply

The accompanying graphic allows us to view the results of this first survey for the Sadida class.

  • Dommages - Damage
  • Survie (soin, protection, et tanking) - Survival (healing, protection, and tanking)
  • Amélioration - Improvements
  • Placement - Placement
  • Entrave - Debuffer
  • Vision actuelle - Current vision
  • Vision idéale - Ideal vision

In red, you can see the ideal vision you have for each class role. The blue profile presents the current vision and feeling in the game.

Like most classes, Sadidas have two similar (but not identical) profiles – the class as it is today is broadly in line with what players expect.

It is noted, however, that you see the class as slightly more powerful than you would like in terms of damage, survival and preventing movement.

This is part of the information we'll take into account when balancing classes. Your comments will help us to put the diagram into perspective by providing us with a more-concrete vision that is closer to the in-game reality.
We'd also like to remind you that in order to solve perception divergences, nerfing and upping aren't the only tools we have at our disposal.

You can see the class comparison on the main topic.
Reply
Score : 1839
is noted, however, that you see the class as slightly more powerful than you would like in terms of damage, survival and preventing movement.


Rip, yes the Sadi is finally strong cuz of the linking but both the int & chance path are atrocious. However, some spells are super redundant. Prime example, having 2 variants of each summon. It's rather lazy and merging these wouldn't make the Sadi stronger but open up potential for swapping out summons in places where they are useless or cause more harm than good. (like 50% of 190+ dungeons).
3 0
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Score : 107

Yes! and perhaps provide sadidas with better healing spells or even different ally buffs for protection, damage, or even ap! 

0 0
Score : 90

first of, if Salida gets a nerf, I hope sadida isnt changed ('nerfed') too much. I hardly ever play pvp, but i love how the sadida is a very nice character to play as a solo player. enough survivability and tools to keep mobs at a distance.

Also, ive posted this before on probably a wrong spot in the forums, so i'll repost it here:

In one of the last updates sadidas were changed drastically in the way they play together. I know this change was to prevent multi sadida players to play together or for 2+ sadidas becoming too powerfull. I agree that that needed to change. I am stuck with a problem though:

As a main, single account, sadida player, i sometimes play with others who are also sadida. This for me is very boring and restricting. Let me put up some examples why it bothers me.

- Sadidas are based on trees. When sadida1 puts up a tree, sadida2 cant summon one. this is a global countdown, which is fine. The problem is that the summoned tree can barely be interacted with by the other player. various spells don't work on the trees of other players such as repotting and Sylvian power.
- Force of nature does not count the other player's trees as a valid tree. this makes the spell very hard to use as the second sadida which cant summon trees.

to change both these problems, i'd recommend having all trees work for every sadida on the team OR let every sadida summon a tree without the global cooldown. The second idea might not be very good, since the trees would be hard to separate based on the player and too much trees would be spawnable in a short amount of time 

- the infected state hit-count that prevents mobs to be hit more than 3 times in total via the infected state limits the second sadida. This change is needed to, yet again, prevent multi loggers and sadidas becoming too powerfull. i would recommend to increase the number of hits (from default 3) by 1 per extra player. this gives a bit more room for direct hits while not making it too unbalanced. In current matches where im with another sadida, it always comes down to sadida1 playing with dolls and debuffing single targets (cant hit infected because of restriction) and sadida2 doing all the tree building and damage
​​​​​​

0 0
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Your feedback indicates that the Sadida class is very interesting to play (it is viable and fun) in most modes except the fire mode.

In the forums:
Many of you brought up issues with the MP and AP removal system for the Sadida and Xelor classes.

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Score : 840

When will ankama just leave classes alone. There is always something being changed. It seems every other week they are resetting every class. I dont get it

1 -2
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Score : 6

Well, classes need changes if you don't get it that's a big problem.

0 0
Score : 790

There's literally one thing about the sadida that makes them impossible to deal with in Kolo and that's the dang spell that gets increased in damage by how many trees there are. The spell is broken and should be removed/changed entirely. Otherwise the class is in a good spot. A tad annoying, but powerful nonetheless. That spell just pushes them up to broken.
Also agree with the poster above.

1 0
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Score : 580

to quote ankama "we did shed a quiet tear".
this graphic looks threatening, and makes me thing that instead of making gameplay improvements in int/cha paths and diversifying some of the spell variants they will succumb to downsizing values of meta builds

0 0
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Score : 60

Hey there! It's Troxi-Metal.
I've been playing my Sadida for approximately 7 years now and even before that I played many MANY years and I've seen most of the changes you brought to the game and I feel like I wanted to say something about the them smile

The "Tree" rework has worked perfectly for Sadidas. I'm not level 200 so I don't know many things about how the Agi Sadi works but I'm Cha/Int right now so I'll give you my feedback based on this build. 
1) All Cha skills are viable at this point in my opinion. But when it comes to Int I wouldn't say I'm pleased with it. Bush Fire always has been one of the most used spells since the beginning of Dofus. It has a great range and a fair damage but the lack of good or viable Int spells repels people to build as Cha/Int. So most of the time people ,such as myself, use Bush Fire as a coping mechanism for the lack of non-linear, long-ranged spell which makes it kind of crucial yet not rewarding. What I would suggest is, if you are planning to lower the Trees' importance; it could be awesome if we get new skills instead of Earthquake (which is one of the oldest spells of Sadida and has a special place in my heart because of its age), Paralysing Poison (which still can apply some sort of poison and Infected state but more useful like AOE or a damage instead of a poison), Wild Grass (maybe increase damage or use per turn but max effect accumilation could be capped at 1). 

2) There still are skills people don't use such as Natural Gift, Posioned Wind, The Tree Of Life. Not because they are bad skills but because a) their alternative skills are way better b) they are underpowered c) they are only viable at some points other than that they are mostly useless. Maybe rework them or replace them with some new spells

3) The summon system started out beautiful but after the alternative spells have come out and the Tree meta came, it just feels lazy that when Osas got new summons and we just got a change of the summoning way. 

4) I feel you as saying Sadis should deal less damage but I would keep them as the most damage dealing in AOE class because that's what they were all about since 1,29. They do deal lots of damage but that was what they were all about since the beginning.

5) Overall, summons aren't that great. They could've use a buff on their vitality/resistances/mobility because most of the time they get one shot. And also the alternatives of them could include whole another different types of summons.


These are just my humble opinion. Hopefully all this time this community gave me joy and beautiful memories, I could give it back as a feedback.

2 0
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Score : 1

When can we know the nerfs/buffs of sadida?

0 0
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Score : 1839

Some constructive feedback (as much as possible).

First of, thanks for adding a new int and chance spell! It was needed for a long time. However, the current additional benefits they grant aren't too great. I would limited the AoE increase of the chance spell (mangrove) to 1 tree and make it grow back the following turn. Trees already aren't that easy to keep alive in endgame PVM so wasting a bunch of them is often not a great idea. 
 
For the Int spell (prickly embers), I'd give it a different effect (not the dmg, the tree shrinking) all together. Perhaps it could increase healing received in a 2-cell circle around the affected target. This way it would enforce the int build towards off-support for CC chars.
 
Lastly, and I've been pretty vocal about this in a few posts already. Please, merge the current summoning spells (transmuted and normal into 1) so that you keep all the current options, like summoning with a tree is 2ap, in the normal summoning range it's 4ap. Besides this we badly need a summoning limit, 1 of each type of doll. This way we can make them stronger individually and stop doll spam which isn't fun for anyone. This way you could allow controllable summons on the Sadi as well as have 5 free slots to put spells. These should be created with in mind that summons aren't usable everywhere. So, for example you could give a more reliable healing spell (than soothing) instead of the healing doll. Instead of the sacrificial doll it could be a linear dmg buff or maybe a dodge buff. Block's variant could give a dodge buff, so you lose a decoy with good lock but are able to dodge better yourself. Seems like a fair trade off imo.

All of these are just examples but the current rather harsh weak points of the Sadi. If changes like these seem too strong, then surely take out of the rest of the kit.

Just my 2 cents! Thanks for reading.
2 -2
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Score : 1

I believe the class is very balanced, but I do think we need more summons or summon variant's.

0 0
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Score : 6

Int needs an extra attack...( or buff the one we got right now, Prickly Ember ) one that actually hits a decent chunk.


Bush Fire could also use a little buff on its damaged or maybe the ability to steal an AP or MP if the enemy you hit Is infected. ( this effect works only on the infected enemy you hit not on every enemy who has infected or just give it that ability only on a single target you hit )


The ability to summon 2 tree's in the same turn, but if you do the effect of the spell Tear doesn't work anymore that turn... and/or possibly the second tree you summoned during that turn has a delay on when it's fully grown of 1 turn starting when you passed your turn.


Tear able to remove 1 range stackable twice.

The sacrificial doll should be able to do damage to enemy targets when killed but only 25% of what it usually would do in an area of effect of 2 cells around it.

Also, there is a change I REALLY LIKE in Temporis server the ability to choose whether YOU or the AI controls the summons by placing the summon right in front of you.

The Sacrficial doll is so useless when controlled by AI he once exploded on a enemy who had air resist and had full hp and was a summon while the summoner was standing right next to the doll with - air resist! It didn't make any sense at all and it really ruins the potential of the dolls especially with their weak health.

0 0
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Score : 42

in my opinion sadie must control his own dolls. the sram class can do that and also osa!!
 

1 0
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Score : 203

I love playing Sadi, the class is versatile and fun to play. Went str until 160, now I am cha and both builds have their advantages-str for greater damage and mp bonus, and cha for its versatility, healing while attacking with Bane, and non LOS required for Tear.
HOWEVER, as people before me already stated, summons can be so annoying. Inflatable and Ultra powerful sometimes just choose not to act even tho they can, Sacri doll explodes randomly on enemy who isn't a priority in a given situation, and the Block and the Madoll sometimes have brainfarts too. You didn't give us any new summons, just let us summon old ones the other way, so at least you can make us control them. I know it's annoying and slow to play aganst Sadi who can control all of his 4, 5 or more summons but you must give us something like you gave to Srams and Osas. For example, let us control only summons who are right next to us at the end of the turn or something like that. 

3 0
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Score : 62

Hello, I'd like to share my thoughts on some of the sadida spells and try to make a suggestion. I won't mention the dolls problem since I agree with what NanoHero001 said about them, make a summon limit of 1 per doll while making them controllable and merging the variants into the original spell.

Now as many people said, str path is too good both in damage and utility (and how it uses sadida's kit to boost these two) compared to the others. Agi is in a ok spot in my opinion, after the big nerf now it's decent.
Chance and int however feel lackluster to say the least. First, it looks like they should be used in a cha/int build rather than alone (this is especially true with int) not only because of bush fire, but also because, when compared to str, they feel like they're doing half of what they're supposed to do.
Voodoo sacrifice can be hardly used in a chance build unless you use it in pvp with an Ap red eni/feca; in a fire build however is ok, used to be very good before the max 3 procs, now it mainly rounds up int builds damage to make it look decent.
Bush fire is not worth it in any build: it is only good when it crits, and its 5% base crit makes it a nightmare to play with.
Prickly Embers and Mangrove...I understand Mangrove's concept, but its damage is so low that even when used in combination with Rise of sap it makes you wonder if you couldn't have just spent your turn setting up more trees/infecting more targets and hitting them with Tear. Prickly Embers is even worse, its effect when you cast it on a tree is so situational it becomes useless when the spell costs 4 ap and planting a new Puny tree is 2 ap, not to mention how useless the effect becomes in a int build when the spell is your main source of damage.

I'd like to make a suggestion that involves mainly Prickly Embers, Repotting and/or Force of Nature. I think an interesting effect on Prickly would be that if you cast it on a leafy tree, the tree takes damage from the spell, then it loses its foliage but spawns a Puny tree (aka a tree that will become leafy on the next turn) on an adjacent cell towards your direction. If the tree dies by your Prickly Embers damage, it spawns three Puny trees, one on the same cell where the tree got killed and two in the two cells behind it, like in a Y pattern (if you hit from diagonal it would spawn the trees in three cells in a diagonal line, like rogue's Carbine aoe). Obviously if those cells are occupied it could work like how Bombs spawn in Queen of Thieves dungeon, for example.

This (or any variant of this idea) would make the spell instantly more interesting for both the int (Earthquake setups) and chance (Mangrove to use the trees for AoE and Rise of sap if you want to make them all instantly leafy) builds, while making it way too op if used by a str build. I think that could be fixed in two ways: changing Force of Nature (which would obviously be the best long term solution) or change Prickly Embers range to make it have a minimum range of 4 or 5. That way it should be harder to use it as a backseat trees builder and more as an offensive in-the-fray forest setup (without actually going face to face with enemies and at the same time giving them counterplay by being able to reach and kill your trees).
Repotting would become both redundant and still too op when used for Force of Nature so it would probably need a change aswell, maybe something bland like "If the targetted leafy tree is killed within 2 turns, it spawns a Puny tree on the same spot" so that it could be useful for every build (agi included, could be used with Inoculation).

The last thing I would change, as I mentioned above, is Voodoo curse chance effect. To be more in line with sadida's kit it could be something like "When the target is pushed/pulled, it receives water damage", that way it would synergize with Earthquake and make int/cha builds more interesting (it would still proc max 3 times per target).

Sorry for the long post, I hope I didn't forget anything. As I said these are just my thoughts on the sadida and its actual place in the meta, and how I'd like to see it change. Cheers smile

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