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I can't believe Celestial Sword is still a problem

By Soren-Sevier - SUBSCRIBER - September 29, 2016, 16:50:56

Hello, I'm an Agi/Int Iop.
I totally love it except for one obnoxious setback.
I don't understand why Celestial Sword deals damage to the user if it isn't used in an AoE that is out of range (3 cells or more). Sword of Iop and Lightning Strike do not have the same mechanic, why should Celestial Sword? Celestial Sword is my highest damaging spell and I can only successfully use it at a range of 3-4.

Answers? Thoughts? Questions?


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That mechanic drives me NUTS. Agility Iops already have enough setback with their small pool of spells. I don't understand why CS is designed that way. It's also completely unfair that SoI doesn't suffer the same problem.

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davin-sevier|2016-10-01 21:26:53
Agility Iops already have enough setback with their small pool of spells.

Given that Agility is by and large the weakest Iop build versatility-wise and (for the most part [Divine Sword aside for being one of the strongest 3AP moves]) damage-wise, it really makes me uncomfortable that this is, and has been an issue for years.
There are only 2.5 AGI Iop spells (5 for STR, 4.5 for INT).

davin-sevier|2016-10-01 21:26:53
I don't understand why CS is designed that way. It's also completely unfair that SoI doesn't suffer the same problem.

I can never afford to use Celestial Sword at a range closer than 3 because it would deal an unhealthy amount of damage to my Iop. This means I (like many other Iops) can only use Celestial Sword to hit enemies in front of my Iop at a range of 3 or more.

I understand that there may be a good reason for this setback, the only one that I can personally think of is that maybe the developers believe that Agility would be an unfair build for AoE if Celestial Sword was a more versatile spell (or even a versatile spell to begin with). Personally, I disagree with this, I believe that Agility deserves to gain some sort of advantage over Strength and Intelligence because as of the current game state, there is no advantage.

What if I played a Strength build?
Strength Iops can use Sword of Iop to hit enemies as close to themselves as they want, because Sword of Iop does not deal damage to the user. This also means that when there are enemies surrounding the Iop, they can hit in multiple directions at the same time.

Yes, I'm aware that I have the ability to hit all around myself safely via Divine Sword,
but the fact that it can only hit in straight lines directly around my Iop makes it awful for hitting more than two enemies maximum because enemies rarely line up in straight lines from single players in a group fight. Sword of Iop however, has far more options for targeting since the cross-shaped AoE can be moved around without endangering your own health. Celestial Sword would have this same versatility if we weren't limited by the danger of hitting ourselves!

A solution that I have in mind: (aside from keeping it from damaging the user) Remove the requirement for clear Line of Sight, this would not make the spell capable of safely hitting around the Iop in multiple directions, but it would allow Iops to hit enemies that are closer than 3 cells in a straight line.
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I've been saying that the agility build needs a different role from the other builds for years now, and I will repeat my suggestions.

1) Lose the fire damage in sword of judgement, increase it's damage slightly, give it a debuff effect that heals the attacker by 25% of the damage the target takes, similar to new osa's 3 AP int spell.

2) Make celestial sword not hit the iop or it's allies. Maybe have some sort of small buff or debuff as well (say, -20 damage for enemies, or +20 linear resistances to allies).

3) Maybe give divine sword some range.

That way, agility iops will be able to provide support and tank a bit better, and would use their lock more effectively. It would differentiate it from other builds and make it worthwhile.

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These all seem like great suggestions! Lynn, do you/have you played an Agility Iop? If so were you a hybrid?

Personally I really enjoy how Sword of Judgement is a hybrid spell. However, since most of the damage comes from Air, I base my choice on whether to use this spell on a target based on its Air resistance (if it has a high resistance to Air, I'll consider a full-Fire spell to make better use of the 4AP) so I could definitely see myself getting more out of this spell if it was 100% air damage with some sort of reduced life steal (25% instead of 50% seems reasonable to me).
It seems like giving a damage debuff to enemies or a resistance buff to allies would be a great alternative to always hurting myself, but I could see it being necessary to reduce the damage output in exchange for those benefits (which I would be fine with).

I definitely agree that Agility needs to be reworked for Iops, but overall it's not awful. It's not like the build is un-useable, however I would like to see Celestial Sword receive some more balance in particular; afterall, it is the 'end-game' Air spell for Iops.

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My iop was str/agi (pre 2.10 revamp), then int/str (I was one of the first talking about this build at revamp), and now omni. Not sure why this is relevant, but... =p

I don't mind judgement being hybrid, really. It's just that I think that side effect would fit on the 'leader" role of the iop. As I said, it's a lifesteal effect like the new osa has...any ally that hits that target benefirs from the lifesteal, so it can be pretty useful for allies.

The damage output from celestial isn't much bigger than sword of iop, and it has much smaller range. Earth also benefits from having wrath, so I think celestial warrants the buff without lowering the damage, but that's me.

Agility doesn't even need a full rework. Just small touch ups. It is a good build, but it gets overshadowed...if it does something different, it will become more interesting.

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