Minimum range to Slaughtering Shovel

It's like Sadi's bramble but without linear restriction. So minimum range looks fair.

OK fair enough. But why was the damage nerfed if Enu's are supposed to fight at a distance.

It is really very simple see they want to decrease the use of weapons and increase the use of spells.So they nerfed the strongest spell Enus have and gave it a minimum range so when an Enu is locked by a monster he has to use a weapon instead of his strongest attack.

LordGreyDragon|2013-02-28 16:27:00

It is really very simple see they want to decrease the use of weapons and increase the use of spells.So they nerfed the strongest spell Enus have and gave it a minimum range so when an Enu is locked by a monster he has to use a weapon instead of his strongest attack.

Or to use Release/Living shovel (puah) to disengage from the enemy and make a better use of that MP-steal abilities you're given so that he can not get locked a second time.

It's like Sadi's bramble but without linear restriction. So minimum range looks fair.

Not that it really matters, but Slaughtering shovel does slightly more damage than Aggressive Bramble.
Just sayin'. 

Chemo-Limo|2013-02-28 16:32:42

LordGreyDragon|2013-02-28 16:27:00

It is really very simple see they want to decrease the use of weapons and increase the use of spells.So they nerfed the strongest spell Enus have and gave it a minimum range so when an Enu is locked by a monster he has to use a weapon instead of his strongest attack.

Or to use Release/Living shovel (puah) to disengage from the enemy and make a better use of that MP-steal abilities you're given so that he can not get locked a second time.

What other class is supposed to rely on a global drop spell(release) as part of routine fights?Living shovel has no lock capability and most of the time pushes monster toward the Enu.They limited clumsiness to 3 casts a turn which is fine for kollo I'm sure since there are only 3 opponents there however fighting monsters there can be and usually are more than 3 to try and stay away from and monsters have higher mp removal resistance than players.

I spent the last couple of months returning to Dofus after about a 5 year absence.

The newest nerf on chance enus has been rather ridiculous. I will not be renewing my subscription.

LordGrey beat me to it. It just seems counter-intuitive in their quest to make us "less CC", they remove the only legitimate water damaging spell the enu has and put a min range on it. That leaves coins and shovel both of which have really low base damage. This will force enus to CC. The only thing I could think of is the polarization of chance enu's and other builds. If you want to be chance, you best stay at range. Otherwise, other elements with stronger non-min range spells are better close range.

I just don't get this change really.

LordGreyDragon|2013-02-28 16:27:00

It is really very simple see they want to decrease the use of weapons and increase the use of spells.So they nerfed the strongest spell Enus have and gave it a minimum range so when an Enu is locked by a monster he has to use a weapon instead of his strongest attack.

Or they could, you know, use the new version of Fortune to give themselves a Dodge bonus and run away from the monster, and then use Slaughtering?

I don't deny this is a nerf, and a baffling one at that, but there are strategic options other than "blindly flail your weapon around."

They also removed any point of having a 1/2 Enutrof short of the bonus you get from weapon crits.

Um... what was the point before, other than doing more damage?

Clumsiness could take up to 4 mp, Reducing Key lasted an additional turn, Fortune gave 120 Chance, Pandoras Box gave 11 critical hits, Acceleration gave 5 mp, Greed gave 200 str/int. Granted some of them have been changed to ignore crits now, but I feel that just proves my point.

On top of that, there was the more damage on spells too, but now that everything has been "stabilized" it all hits the same regardless.

So they nerfed reducing key and clumsiness.
Decreased the damage of coin toss so it is equal to leek pie.
Decreased the damage to mound.
Decreased the damage of slaughtering shovel and gave it minimum range.

Of course to make up for these nerfs they took away the 20pp.Bet it looked good to them on paper.

Yeah, I don't like the downward direction the Enutrof appears to be heading in.

Revil-Nunor|2013-02-28 18:14:31

Clumsiness could take up to 4 mp, Reducing Key lasted an additional turn, Fortune gave 120 Chance, Pandoras Box gave 11 critical hits, Acceleration gave 5 mp, Greed gave 200 str/int. Granted some of them have been changed to ignore crits now, but I feel that just proves my point.

On top of that, there was the more damage on spells too, but now that everything has been "stabilized" it all hits the same regardless.

Greed gives +10% more Power on a crit compared to a regular cast, Pandora's Box heals more on a crit than it does on a normal hit (and gives the target a lower MP-stealing penalty), and Reducing Key and Acceleration still have exactly the effects you mentioned (Accelleration still gives more MP on a crit than a normal hit, Reducing Key still lasts an additional turn on a crit). Only Clumsiness and Fortune lost their critical effect.

So how does that prove your point when only two spells lost their crit effect, and at least two of the other spells you specifically listed as no longer having a crit actually have exactly the same crit effect as before?

As for the damage reduction to the Chance spells, I actually think I see the reasoning there: Greed now buffs all elements, including the Enu's own water attacks. And it buffs them more than Fortune used to, by 150% on a normal hit or 160% on a crit (compared to 61-70 and 120 for old Fortune). Plus you can still use the new Fortune in conjunction with Greed for a massive +450% buff to your own damage for one turn - regardless of element - without critting, or 460% if you do crit.

Previously, the most you could get was +70% to only water spells or +150% damage to only earth and fire spells, or +120% and +200% on a crit. So the base damage was lowered so that they wouldn't be overpowered when used with the new buffs. (SS wasn't even lowered that much - only 3 damage at level 1-5 and 4 at level 6, hardly significant in the face of +450% damage. As for Coins Throwing, it's more powerful on a normal hit, and less powerful on a crit, so it hasn't been unilaterally nerfed)

Yeah, it's trickier than before. You have to time your attacks so that they take full advantage of your buffs, rather than casting your buffs and forgetting about them. (But that's not being confined to Enutrofs. Osas and, to a lesser extent, Sadidas are also seeing this change in playstyle)

So now I'm much less baffled than before. Thank you for forcing me to analyze the changes in conjunction with one another (where it becomes clear that the spells have been redesigned to work in conjunction with one another), rather than looking at the changes to each spell separately.

I completely and utterly disagree with your assessment of the changes. While the new Fortune seems good on paper, in the heat of battle it is less so. I want nothing more than to agree that these new changes help the Enutrof, but I just can't. I hate each and every one of them.

Pre 2.10, my Enutrof was one of the 4 main parts of my team that never changed, I have invested huge amounts of time and money to gear him and I wouldn't have stopped using him for anything. Now after having had a chance to test the new changes, I can safely say that if Ankama removes the extra loot from Living Chest while keeping the Enutrofs batle capabilities as they are now then I will have to re-roll the Enutrof for something else.

If that doesn't say something, then I don't think anything anyone can say to you will have an effect.

Schmendrick|2013-02-28 19:08:12

Revil-Nunor|2013-02-28 18:14:31

Clumsiness could take up to 4 mp, Reducing Key lasted an additional turn, Fortune gave 120 Chance, Pandoras Box gave 11 critical hits, Acceleration gave 5 mp, Greed gave 200 str/int. Granted some of them have been changed to ignore crits now, but I feel that just proves my point.

On top of that, there was the more damage on spells too, but now that everything has been "stabilized" it all hits the same regardless.

Greed gives +10% more Power on a crit compared to a regular cast, Pandora's Box heals more on a crit than it does on a normal hit (and gives the target a lower MP-stealing penalty), and Reducing Key and Acceleration still have exactly the effects you mentioned (Accelleration still gives more MP on a crit than a normal hit, Reducing Key still lasts an additional turn on a crit). Only Clumsiness and Fortune lost their critical effect.

So how does that prove your point when only two spells lost their crit effect, and at least two of the other spells you specifically listed as no longer having a crit actually have exactly the same crit effect as before?

As for the damage reduction to the Chance spells, I actually think I see the reasoning there: Greed now buffs all elements, including the Enu's own water attacks. And it buffs them more than Fortune used to, by 150% on a normal hit or 160% on a crit (compared to 61-70 and 120 for old Fortune). Plus you can still use the new Fortune in conjunction with Greed for a massive +450% buff to your own damage for one turn - regardless of element - without critting, or 460% if you do crit.

Previously, the most you could get was +70% to only water spells or +150% damage to only earth and fire spells, or +120% and +200% on a crit. So the base damage was lowered so that they wouldn't be overpowered when used with the new buffs. (SS wasn't even lowered that much - only 3 damage at level 1-5 and 4 at level 6, hardly significant in the face of +450% damage. As for Coins Throwing, it's more powerful on a normal hit, and less powerful on a crit, so it hasn't been unilaterally nerfed)

Yeah, it's trickier than before. You have to time your attacks so that they take full advantage of your buffs, rather than casting your buffs and forgetting about them. (But that's not being confined to Enutrofs. Osas and, to a lesser extent, Sadidas are also seeing this change in playstyle)

So now I'm much less baffled than before. Thank you for forcing me to analyze the changes in conjunction with one another (where it becomes clear that the spells have been redesigned to work in conjunction with one another), rather than looking at the changes to each spell separately.

So your argument is that by nerfing reducing key and clumsiness and making it more difficult to do damage it is an improvement?

So if you like to drive 5 miles to do something and I change your route so now you have to go 30 miles out of your way get on and off 3 ramps and sit through 10 sets of traffic lights it would be better for you and not frustrating at all right.

As of this update a chance Panda can get more pp than an Enu.Lichen has already stated he wants to take away living chests drop and make other changes to it.When Lichen finishes"fixing" living chest and I use the term "fixing" the same way you talk about taking your dog to the vet to get "fixed".The developers can move the description "Treasure Hunter" to chance Pandas.

I and many other PvM players check the forum daily for Lichen to announce how he will balance monsters to make up for all the nerfs and changes to classes since 1.27.question is will the announcement come before subscriptions run out.

I play my enu as my main (and have done so since 2005), and personally, although it looked scary on paper, I'm just not that bothered by the changes so far. It's taken a few fights at adjust to the min range on Slaughtering, but the reduction in damage is hardly noticeable to me, especially with the update to Fortune and Greed. I hit things, they die, I'm happy. I've always been a long-range player who only uses a weapon when the opportunity presents. My gear is not cutting-edge or overmaged.

Yes, I think the removal of PP and the possible death of the chest's extra roll in the future is a bit of a bummer, but imho, watching greedy people turn a class that I genuinely like and find fun into meaningless drop whores and bots always bummed me out. People who don't know me usually assume that my main character is just a leech I drag around for the loot. Enus are too cool to be disposable, and I think their position as a mezzing class is plenty of fun at the moment.

In PvM, I'm feeling pretty powerful at the moment, more than I ever have in the game. It's a far from from the days when all Enus could do was stand in the back and die.

I just find the lack of "specialty" disturbing. They used to have a unique specialty. Water damage, MP reduction, Drops/PP. ESPECIALLY if they nerf the chest, they will have very little specialty remaining. Sadidas would be better for MP removal. Cras or Pandas would be better for water damage. I'd see no reason for an enu in the team whatsoever.

LordGreyDragon|2013-02-28 20:54:57

So your argument is that by nerfing reducing key and clumsiness and making it more difficult to do damage it is an improvement?

No, that's not my argument at all. That's you putting words in my mouth, pretending I said it, and then making bizarre analogies that are not remotely related to what I actually said.

I never said that those things you specifically listed are things that make Enutrofs more powerful. I said that there are other factors that you keep leaving out, new buffs that can more than compensate for the nerfs you keep listing if you use them well.

In other words, what I was saying is that while the update did indeed have nerfs, it also had buffs, but they are buffs that you have to be smart and clever to take advantage of. And if you do, you'll be able to dish out incredible burst damage. (I just teamed with a high-level Enutrof, and ran the Treechnid Dungeon. I watched as their attacks went from 200-300 during normal turns to nearly 700 during that one Greed + Fortune turn, and over 600 when just using Fortune. It's a scalpel, not a bludgeon, but it's a wickedly sharp scalpel)

If you want to compare it to driving, it's like you've been driving a 5-mile-long route, but then they changed the roads so that now it's normally a 6-mile route, but there's now a shortcut that's only open at certain hours of the day that lets you cut the route down to 2 miles. You have to time things right to take advantage of that opening, but if you do, it pays off. If you ignore the opening, then of course you're going to only see the longer 6-mile drive.

And that's what I'm doing. I'm trying to point out that shorter route that you seem to have missed, so fixated are you on the 6-mile drive.

If you want to sit there and complain about what you've lost without making any attempt at using the new tools that you've been given, so be it. But it isn't going to make the devs think you're right.