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Class Improvement - Cra

By [Ankama]DOFUS - ADMIN - February 20, 2019, 17:58:13
AnkaTracker

This topic is intended to gather your ideas and suggestions on improvements to the Cra class.
Please, keep in mind that class balancing focuses on both PvP and PvM at once.

Reply
First Ankama intervention

The accompanying graphic allows us to view the results of this first survey for the Cra class.

  • Dommages - Damage
  • Survie (soin, protection, et tanking) - Survival (healing, protection, and tanking)
  • Amélioration - Improvements
  • Placement - Placement
  • Entrave - Debuffer
  • Vision actuelle - Current vision
  • Vision idéale - Ideal vision

In red, you can see the ideal vision you have for each class role. The blue profile presents the current vision and feeling in the game.
Like most classes, Cras have two similar (but not identical) profiles – the class as it is today is in line with what players expect.

It is noted, however, that you see the class as far too powerful compared to what you would like.

This is part of the information we'll take into account when balancing classes. Your comments will also help us to put the diagram into perspective by providing us with a more-concrete vision that is closer to the in-game reality.
We'd also like to remind you that in order to solve perception divergences, nerfing and upping aren't the only tools we have at our disposal.

You can see the class comparison on the main topic.
See message in context
Reactions 28
Score : 422

Please nerf its ap reaping spells. I don't have any idea why it is almost the best class in 5v5 to reape ap. Much more simple to play and almost more effective in ap reaping than xelor.

10 -5
Reply
Score : 640

Nerf distant shooting. Such a broken spell.

7 -9
Reply
Score : 425

Generalny braindead class.. Like God Mode in game. 

cra fighting on rang but have stronger dmg than mele fighters.. Why? Safe pos isnt enough benefit?
all rangers should have lower dmg than mele fighters.. 

also 
Debuffs should have max cap per target and whole his team.
expl: u can reap only 25% OF your oponent ap/MP - pvp
​​​​​​60% - pvm
IT will stop of abusing cancer build in pvp and brainless range teams in pvm.​​

6 -10
Reply
Score : 1626

Not the best option imo, but indeed Cra needs some trade-offs. Like losing HP when using distant shooting to make him more towards long range glass cannon if they really want to keep its current DMG output.

4 -3
Score : 332

Well, the thing about Cra... It's way to strong. This class is killing all the diversity this game offers. We have currently 18 classes, all of them really interesting and unique in many ways, but at the moment, unless you have Cra in your team, you cannot achieve success. Or at least it's veeery hard or slow. 
I run a team of 4 myself, none of the classes is cra and I struggle with some more difficult areas and my brain is whispering "This would be so much easier if you had a Cra in your team".

So my suggestion is to simply nerf this particular class to the point where it's as strong as other classes, not way above them. I know there are plenty of players who are terrifyied that this is going to happen, but I feel like you, as developers, should be fair to all the players and you should respect their style of playing (so simply make Cra non-obligatory).
Also, this hit-and-run strategy is not a strategy at all. I see Cras dealing TONS of damage and being untouchable at once. My main is Rogue and I really need a lot of planning and turns to achieve similar damage to those silly shooters that can take down my bombs within one turn from 84975934 range anytime they want.

See what happens with Korri souls? Plenty of Cras running leeching services. It's only Cras. People create Cra to be able to do Korri. People create Cra to do end-game dungeons. People create Cra to be gods of kolossium. People create Cra to kill large groups of hard mobs to farm resources quickly. People create Cra to be able to hit everything with ultra-hard idols and still remain untouched.
So what's the disadvantage of the class? What's the alternative for Cra if you still want to be that strong and keep the distance?

Please, Ankama, do something that will change this meta. Cra's are overpowered, everyone knows it and still there's nothing done with that.

12 -10
Reply
Score : 773

If, instead of nerfing this class, buff all others (yeah, I know, it's very harder to achieve this, but the sense of gain to play a buffed class is better than the sense of 'my class/build was nerfed')?
 

2 -5
Score : 609

Reduce the AP reduction of striking arrow from 3 to 2, the fact they get 2 rolls to reduce 3 ap if they use the spell twice is crazy given they also use tactical beacon to drag you out of cover

9 -2
Reply
Score : -25

Lol, this is a topic about class improvement.
In my opinion ankama shouldn't give players so much attention, because I am sure they will ruin the game. You all talking about nerfing cra, you probably and clearly no nothing about the class, how expensive and how hard it  is to play with cra, all you say is (It's too overpowered, it's too braindead), that's what people that haven't played the class say (even if you have, it just shows that you lack the understanding of the class). It's very easy to kill cra, all you need is mp or ap resistance and a little brain, if you haven't been able to beat one, it's probably because you're just too dumb. 
You also talked about cra destroying kolo, it means you didn't look the top 100 chars in 3 v 3 kolo, there is no cra near that. Cra suck at kolo now, because it's not really needed in one. 

To wrap everything, Ankama I think you should just focus on your job, not saying completely ignore players opinions, but some players are just saying stuff out of hate for some particular class and some lack of experience on facing them or using them. My advice to you is, continue doing what you are doing, because the game is great as it is. 

11 -19
Reply
Score : 1626

While always true, the Cra has very little trade-off on a lot of spells. They could add trade-offs and buff other spells in return. The current version of the Cra is just too versatile while being still being the best in a lot of aspects. Versatility should be the competitive edge but not being the best in multiple aspects.

1 -5

Hey there cmonhelpme, and those who may be intrigued by the post above:

I invite you to take a look at the news thread announcing these "single topics" in the Class subforums. Towards the end, Ankama describes how they will utilize the feedback presented here and why they're requesting such feedback.

Ankama is certainly aware that they will receive very "passionate" feedback from players about classes, but well-defined opinions of whatever level of bias are actually very useful for the developers to truly understand the community's thinking.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion about how much Ankama should really listen to the playerbase, but this isn't the appropriate place to share this sentiment. I encourage you to voice your feedback on the overall initiative in the news thread smile

Reply
Score : 163

Most players play PvE and thus the Cra class is superior to everything else in their mind, in PvP however they are underpowered. So it's difficult to balance the class in both modes.
It needs improvement vs players and a nerf versus mobs. You dont ever want to get hit by mobs and so ranged classes have a clear advantage in this field. Even more so with Erosion in the game. Maybe a gear/Dofus/Trophy change can balance classes in PvE, so that melee has not to worry as much about those negative effects(-50% erosion/-50% ranged Dmg[PvE only] p.e.). So other classes can compete with Cras in PvE and the class can be buffed for PvP.

9 -1
Reply
Score : 96

Hey guys,

I do a lot of 1x1 PvP with Cra (currently i'm at the top 67# of the global ladder) and here are my thoughts:

Cra PvM = God Tier no doubt;

Cra 1x1 PvP (High level) = The cra needs to do a lot of damage to outsustain almost every other class so STR builds is kinda balanced against every class except Osamodas which is way above.
The other build (CHA - AP withdraw) do realy well against classes who doesn't have shields and/or heals (Roublard for exemple) but lacks damage against classes who does (Sacrier, Iop, Mask, Feca, etc.)

Cra Group Pvp (High level) = Awful Tier (It`s so easy to counter play) The cra doesn't do much after being pulled in close combat and/or blocked (and there's a lot of classes who can do it).

I think you guys could nerf it's maximum range and give him some tools (maybe dmg ou survival) to not be useless in close combat after being pulled ou blocked.

7 -1
Reply
Score : 163

An aspect that is easily overlooked in Group-PvP however is, that there has to be an opposing player that sacrifices their resources to actually lock you down (AP,  MP, sub-optimal positioning of himself)
Giving the Cra tools to circumvent stuff like that would make the effort of the other player meaningless.
Every class has to have a flaw that others can exploit otherwise everyone can do everything and how is that fun at all?

Thinking ahead and communicating with your team is part of Group-PvP and if the Cra receives help from their team it's often that the opposing player has to retreat.

4 -1
Reply
Score : 96

But if you play cra in Group-PvP there MUST be a class to babysit you otherwise you will end doing nothing and give a huge advantage to the enemy team. That's realy anoying. 

If there's a feca at the enemy team and uses the Gravitational Glyph you're done.

I agree that "every class has to have a flaw that others can exploit" but there's a lot of classes in Group-PvP that can make the cra useless and it's kinda abusive.

I know that cra is overpowered in PvM but that's it right?

We don't see a lot of cras in the competitive scenario (DWS) for a reason.

My point is they should nerf cra PvM so we can play a more diversified game but give him some tools to be in a average tier in the competitive scenario.

3 0
Reply
Score : 746

To be fair though, many classes don't have answers to the whole Gravity glyph ap rape strategy which is why its abused. At least cra has multiple pushbacks and dispersing arrow every other turn to escape non-fecas when they get pulled in and locked. There are other classes like Sadi/Enu that have a much harder time escaping in melee. 

Not going to comment about cra's strength as a whole, but the "ranger" class should hands down be the worst class in melee...and currently...they're not. 

0 -1
Score : 163

My idea would be a survival skill, like 1-2 Turn invulnerability while being locked or reduce range to gain a defensive buff. 
That way the locking player must remain in the same area and the Cra has more time to receive help from teammates or he sacrifices his range to be more defensive and go toe to toe with the aggressor.

Thoughts?

0 0
Reply
Score : 426

The current problem with Cra in my opinion, isnt so much Cra being super OP godlike at everything, its merely that Almost all mechanics favours ranged tactics.

If Ankama, were to find a way as to make most other characters be equally useful in PvM, that would fix Cras "problem" aswell.


The only thing i feel is missing from Cra atm, is better looking animations, otherwise theyre in a great spot smile

4 -2
Reply
Score : 1132

As a long time cra main I'll add my few cents. I've played a lot of builds with cra in the past.
Currently I use agi in kolo 3v3 to great success. However as was mentioned before cra needs protection or its dead. I've had builds with absurd % res and Ivory but even then once I'm pulled in, its game over most times. With agi build at least I can dodge sometimes and then elio or panda (who I kolo with the most) can help me out. But even then there are plenty of counters.
I was one of the first on Echo to go Ap reduction cha build and it was really great as a debuff in 5v5 but damage wise it paled when compared to Iops Tumult etc. Plus people get pretty mad at you and focus you real fast.

I feel cra has a ton of gimmicks but that needs to be toned down a bit in favor of more pvp related defenses the group can enjoy. Cra is god tier in PvM 100% but PvP? Pretty average overall and in many ways just bad. -Aerafal

4 0
Reply
Score : 292

I know Ankama is not going to balance classes based on 1v1 pvp. However, it's clear to everyone that Cra is broken in that regard. This is demonstrated easily by the fact that nowadays, if you have time to play 10 matches, you will face 8 Cras and 2 other classes. Many classes simply have no way to reach the Cra in the first turn or two turns. With Cras being able to output as much damage (or more) as close range classes, and able to hit you literally anywhere on the map from the first turn with no line of sight required, usually this means that the fight is 100% hp vs 50% hp by the time the fight even really starts, and your range is completely gone making it even more difficult to land some hits on them. My suggestion is not to nerf Cras necessarily (although I wish you would) but rather to diversify the 1v1 maps so that some of them favor range classes and some favor melee classes. As it currently stands, the very small pool of maps all favor Cras from the start. 1v1 should be more of a roulette in which sometimes you are going to get a map/starting position that favors your class and sometimes not. The maps put close range fighters at a huge disadvantage, every time. It would be so so simple to just add some more diverse maps that favor different types of players, not only the broken, brainless range-reduction Cra. In general Ankama, the difficulty tiers should provide some real advantages for players who invest time in learning them. The easiest classes should not be the strongest classes in any regard. It makes the game dumber.

2 -5
Reply

The accompanying graphic allows us to view the results of this first survey for the Cra class.

  • Dommages - Damage
  • Survie (soin, protection, et tanking) - Survival (healing, protection, and tanking)
  • Amélioration - Improvements
  • Placement - Placement
  • Entrave - Debuffer
  • Vision actuelle - Current vision
  • Vision idéale - Ideal vision

In red, you can see the ideal vision you have for each class role. The blue profile presents the current vision and feeling in the game.
Like most classes, Cras have two similar (but not identical) profiles – the class as it is today is in line with what players expect.

It is noted, however, that you see the class as far too powerful compared to what you would like.

This is part of the information we'll take into account when balancing classes. Your comments will also help us to put the diagram into perspective by providing us with a more-concrete vision that is closer to the in-game reality.
We'd also like to remind you that in order to solve perception divergences, nerfing and upping aren't the only tools we have at our disposal.

You can see the class comparison on the main topic.
Reply
Score : 1132

I disagree with what most have said about cra. As a class with literally no shielding no healing no ability to survive as seen by the graphic, cra needs to have high damage. Therefore cra's damage should be great and the debuff should be great as well. I would argue though that the big problem with cra that no one mentions much is the fact charge attacks take time to build. Blitzing the cra before they get the big damage output is very easy not to mention most cra's have to go crit dmg base so a solid 100 crit res and ivory can literally remove the cra's ability to do damage.

1 0
Reply
Score : 182

LOL, so all the ones wanting it nerfed are just thinking about kolo losses?

Kolo and group play isn't the only kind of play. some play solo and nerfing the hell out of it will kill their game stone dead. It needs damage to survive.

4 0
Reply
Score : 17
I have just returned to game after 3 years I am still trying to catch up. I hope you do not change cra again. I am versatile but low in all. when alone it is hard to beat others. As I said I am just catching up 
 
0 0
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