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Modifying Xelors

By Aliyazbek October 13, 2014, 12:35:32

Xelor is a great character,
Agile fighter, AP rooper, medium damage, nice range on most spells...

The general idea is that most people use Xelors for pvp especially kolossium and rarely for pvm...
The idea of a Xelor in people's minds is ap roop and ap roop only...

I use Xelor as my main character in game, and it was the first character i created and i witnessed all updates that affected this class...

To be honest Xelors are still good, but they miss something to keep up with other classes..

The damage that a Xelor can do in a fight is becoming weak compared to other characters, especially people who sacrifice everything to increase their ap reduction ability...
most Xelors now use equipment that increase wisdom and ap reduction ability to come to the point where they deal 0 damage...

Thats nice but useless, most don't want to be be only ap roopers and deal no damage at all and im one of them, i try to have a bit of both.
And with the ap resistance equipment like trophy's that increase it in a massive way its becoming almost impossible...
In general pvp 1vs1 for Xelor is impossible ( where the opposing character can have high ap loss resistance and Xelor have low damage ).

For example :

- Xelor lvl 200, full wisdom and a good set, can have at max 90 ap reduction ability and a bit close to medium damage.
- A chacter on the other side sees the xelor and equips his ap resistence trophy's, can have 80+ ap loss resistance. ( i saw some with 100 )

AP roop is killed in this situation and the xelor who sacrificed a lot to have this amount of ap rooping ability is almost useless and can't win most of the fights.

I have read a lot of posts on Xelors and some people are thinking in a wrong way specifying what they need to make the build they have the top, and that is just wrong...

What we all need ( in my opinion and i think most of us ) is :

Xelors to have : - Better buffs to have more damage for spells, ex : Mummification, ( 150 % power is useless compared to other character buffs ).

- Better spells to decrease ap loss resistance, ex : LOM, ( useless -3 ap loss resistance per turn wont do any difference compared to other characters ).

- Xelor's dial, modify or change it to a more efficient spell or summon to help in field manipulation and ap rooping.

- More field manipulation spells similar to Rewind and Rhollbak and less cool down on it.

- Tessaract, its nice but 8 turns between two cast is alot...

- Modify Homing hand or change what this spell does ( 90 % of xelors don't use it ).

- Remove gravity state on Mummification, ( people hesitate to use because of it ).

- Most of the attack spells have low damage and the ones with high damage have very low range and most have restrictions.

- Improve Temporal dust to have more aoe and more damage ( Better for pvm )

( full wisdom characters don't do good against monsters where ap roop is useless to most ).

- Protective spells should be more efficient, to help survive. ( could be combined with field manipulation ).

To conclude i think Dofus team should work on making Xelors have better damage and damage buffs, fair ap roop and ap loss resistance removing, more field manipulation...
The idea is to be better in pvm and better in pvp 1vs1 , and more field control to help support friends...
( Improve the idea to be mummy and time shifters ).

Most of us want this modifications as soon as possible, and i think it would be nice to evolve in this world to keep up with others and have versatility and more options...
And always be fair about it to everyone..

TLDR , Buff Xelor....

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Actually there is a lot more to be done, but as a start what u suggested would be great!

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My useless alt is a xelor, although xelors are very good in ap roople but if they were very good at it, then for sure they're super useless against monsters! we urge u guys !!

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I've played Dofus since 2004! and since then the xelor is undergoing a constant nerf! its time u guys do something i think biggrin 

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What you are asking is far too unreasonable. As someone who has mained a xelor for 7+ years on different accounts ( this account has my 200 Xelor on it aswell if you'd like to check ;D ) I can honestly say we're fine as we are right now, be it abit underused and not as usefull in the higher level dungeons ( few exceptions ) we are far from being weak if used and build correctly.

Dial is a very effective meatshield and LoS blocker. High resists ( few minus ), does LoM sort of spell on enemies, and give it 4AP and it'll AP roople in an AoE ! Far from being the most useless summon, infact with it's short CD and very high HP it's one of the best blocking summons out there. And let's face it, in higher content or even PvP for that matter we won't use summons to do damage, we use them to block stuff for a few turns to get ready for other stuff.

More field manip is coming, along with AP removal being either removed or less focused on in the Xelor revamp.

Tesseract's range is huge. You can litteraly ( in 90% of the current maps ) teleport from one end of the map to the other for 4AP. Reducing the cooldown would mean reducing the range, which I don't feel comfortable with.

I've seen plenty of good xelors use homing hand. It basically has unlimited range and does 120-150 ( can be cast 2x per turn at 6 ). I've even won some PvP's myself by using homing hand on classes such as sacs to finish them of.

Now one of your suggestions I do agree with. Removing gravity from mummy. It's a nice damage buff, but it currently costs too much AP for too little effect. Remove the damage reduction and gravity, reduce it to 2AP and have it give 150% power like it does now and I'm happy.

Temporal Dust is fine as it is. It's on par with Explosive pre-6, which as a Xelor is pretty darn nice and does some nice damage aswell ( full int 400+, full wis 250-300+ ) AND steals AP. One change could be reducing the AP cost by 1, while removing the AP removal effect.

Big no on protective spells. We're not fecas.

Most of these changes you posted are unreasonable like I said, you want Xelors to do high damage ( be like an Iop ), want them to have good protection spells ( be like a feca ), have more and bigger AoE on temp ( be like a cra ) . . . You see the problem here I hope ? You want Xelors to be all kinds of classes combined, which just isn't going to happen.

-Ex.

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Aliyazbek|2014-10-13 12:35:32
For example :

- Xelor lvl 200, full wisdom and a good set, can have at max 90 ap reduction ability and a bit close to medium damage.
- A chacter on the other side sees the xelor and equips his ap resistence trophy's, can have 80+ ap loss resistance. ( i saw some with 100 )

AP roop is killed in this situation and the xelor who sacrificed a lot to have this amount of ap roopling ability is almost useless and can't win most of the fights.
A. If your opponent switch to an AP resistance build, then they also sacrifice a lot of their damage potential to have that much AP resistance. One good strategy against these kind of opponents is building your xelor on offensive built instead of AP roopling.

This way, if your opponent switch to AP resistance gears, then they sacrifice their power, and you go ahead and go full offensive on them. Their power sacrifice to get that much AP resistance will be useless if you will not remove their AP.

B. It would be best if you post your views on the Zenith discussion, if you really want to make changes to the xelors. That section has the best chance of getting heard by the developers.
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hahahaha you guys are really funny, still as aliyazbek said, you are trying to fit modification according to your needs! thats the whole point of this post! NOT TO FIT XELOR TO SOMEONE'S NEED!!!!
great post man keep on the good work and u can partially ignore those two last guyssmile
ANKAMA we need a xelor buff!!

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First of all im not being unreasonable.........your point of view is somehow right but my post answers almost everything...
and as i said Xelors are fine to be honest but compared to other characters are becoming weak...

To be more efficient as a Xelor you need to be full wisdom and i rarely see Xelors not being full wisdom....
I play Xelor since 2005 and i witnessed all modification and tried all builds and it's pretty much the same idea, you have to sacrifice most of your damage to be the perfect ap ramplur...

and about the spells ...i clarified

- the mummy deal witch is having more % power and lose the gravity state on it which is pretty much necessary compared to cra, eni, enu.....( 300 % power and damage )
- Tessaract i mentioned that its a very nice spell and very helpful but Xelors suppose to be timeshifters and have mobility and 8 turns is way less mobile ( the range on it is amazing tho )
- Homing hand is pretty much useless 3 ap to do 120 damage .... that is very low it can have better effects ( not to mention the 15 spell points invested )...
- In a general way damage spells deal low damage or have range and Los restrictions....( being full wisdom and sacrificing damage to get ap ralph is way too low damage )..
- Xelor Dial is a block actually more than a dial to reduce ap loss resis and it could be more effective in gameplay...

In general most people don't want to be full ap ramblers with 0 damage and if a Xelor will be full offensive the ap rocking will be useless....
the idea to work on both is not gonna make it perfect on both...

I didn't exaggerate on damage to compare to an iop and i didnt want it to be a feca to have protective spells ( tho xelors already have mummy ) and as i already said modify protective spells to help survive and merge it with field manipulation ( surviving not bein a feca )....

and about the ( wanting to merge all characters in a xelor ) , most characters have ap and mp reduction spells, healing spells, defense spells and shields, and high damage ( all combined together ).

And Finally when a character switches to ap resistance equips he wont actually sacrifice alot where there's 2 trophy's that give massive ap resis with any set ( that gives 400 + wisdom ) it's massive and he would only sacrifice 2 trophy slots and his set already has wisdom )- and a good point to know he is already invested all points on element and has 4 more trophy slots enough to get massive damage )....

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Let's see the ideas here...

Better damage buffs: yeah, that could be. Or, you know, they could increase the power of the spells directly. Which would leave more space for other spells.

Better ap loss resistance debuffs: not happening. Ankama is moving away from that in the next revamp.

Xelor dial: xelor dial is already awesome! But yeah, it will need to change, since Ankama is moving away from AP steal in the revamp.

Field manipulation spells: I don't think rholl back should have less cooldown. It is a very strong spell, especially in large maps against things that have low range...less cooldown could mean no close combat monster would ever reach you. And rewind already has pretty low cooldown.

Tesseract: If they reduce cooldown, they WILL reduce range. Like they did with fecas. Plus, yeah, it has long cooldown, but xelors are based on stall tactics anyway...you can keep using the map manipulation spells while tesseract is in cooldown, and keep enemies away. I don't think that is needed. Then again, Ankama will probably do what they did with feca teleport anyway.

Homing hand: it is fine as is and has a lot of uses (again, stall tactics). But Ankama is likely to cut this spell off anyway.

Temporal dust: I'd rather see it being 4 AP.

Protective spells: nope. AP steal, map manipulation AND protection spells? People have a hard time against AP steal alone, imagine those 3 together...

What I think about xelors right now: inherently unbalanced. Their central mechanic, AP steal, is either so powerful that enemies don't have a chance, or so weak that the xelor will be useless. This works for most scenarios; AP steal can make or break the fight, never being powerful-but-still-ok-to-fight-against. A.K.A., it's unbalanced, for the xelor or against the xelor, but unbalanced nonetheless. The class needs to move away from that. Not completely, of course; they should keep spells like clock and frostbite...but it should be a secondary thing, not the main function. Your ideas are to improve everything while keeping AND making AP steal more powerful, which would still be unbalanced (only now, xelors would be broken).

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Just for the record, Ankama has been working on a Xelor revamp for a while.

But note that it's going to be a full-on revamp. Remember how Fecas were drastically changed in 2.23, or Ecaflips were drastically changed in 2.10, so that neither class really plays quite the same as they did before? Yeah, Xelors are going to get that sort of revamp.

(Though I kinda like Homing Hand as it is. Sure, it's not powerful, but it's essentially a spell you cast when you can't otherwise reach anyone, because the Needle's MP is insane. I think making it two casts per turn and giving it a secondary effect - say, stealing 1 AP or inflicting the Gravity state - would be nice, but I don't think it necessarily needs more damage, since it shouldn't be used as a main attack spell)

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Why people need to repeat themselves a million times is beyond me :blink:. Already mentioned the revamp.

Now as to mobility, we possess one of the best mobility spells in the entire game after the eca revamp -> Flight. Teleport for 1 AP. Coupled with release, teserract, rhol back and rewind, only a very very bad Xelor would still get stuck, no discussion possible there.

I'm looking forward to the Xel changes, but right now they are fine as they are.

-Ex.

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Just to clarify again....
I said my suggestions about some spells i didn't mean to be full ap ringledingle and fully damage buffed and protective spells...

As a general idea they are going to do the revamp, but what changing is unknown so the idea is to keep the main stuff alive..
maybe less ap ringledingle more field manipulation ( witch is better and more balanced ).... i meant with protective to survive not spam shields like fecas...( most characters have surviving spells that helps for a turn or two )

as for the ap ringledingle i said to be fair to everyone witch means not increase ap ringledingle, i mean actually not decrease it a lot ( just be fair about it ).

and as for rhollbak your right it is a powerful spell and i didn't mean to improve it, i mean just make more spells close to this type... ( field manipulation ), maybe rewind needs less cool down...

and as for Homing hand , its a backup plan and we can benefit from spells with better effects... 15 spell points are worth more than a needle with infinity mp that hits 100 damage on 0 resis,

and flight is a great spell with more advantage ...so xelors are mobile indeed but tesseract has along cool down ( maybe some similar manipulation spell to help keep up while waiting for cool down to end ).

Balancing is the main idea....

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Rancidrode|2014-10-13 16:11:05
Why people need to repeat themselves a million times is beyond me :blink:. Already mentioned the revamp.

Now as to mobility, we possess one of the best mobility spells in the entire game after the eca revamp -> Flight. Teleport for 1 AP. Coupled with release, teserract, rhol back and rewind, only a very very bad Xelor would still get stuck, no discussion possible there.

I'm looking forward to the Xel changes, but right now they are fine as they are.

-Ex.
you keep arguing and just seing one side of what the man is trying to say, either read the whole topic and reply or just dont commentXD hihihi
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Rancidrode|2014-10-13 16:11:05
Why people need to repeat themselves a million times is beyond me :blink:. Already mentioned the revamp.

Now as to mobility, we possess one of the best mobility spells in the entire game after the eca revamp -> Flight. Teleport for 1 AP. Coupled with release, teserract, rhol back and rewind, only a very very bad Xelor would still get stuck, no discussion possible there.

I'm looking forward to the Xel changes, but right now they are fine as they are.

-Ex.
Yes, the revamp was mentioned in passing, but nobody else pointed out how drastic it will probably be. When the revamp is done, you will probably recognize a few spell names, and that's it. There's no guarantee you will still have Flight, Tesseract, Rhol Back, or Rewind once it's all over.

(Also... "ringledingle"?)
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Well about the revamp ... you are right we dont know anything and this post is to talk about what we all need to fix , what to keep and what to change.
and how bad xelors need a revamp and buff in many ways ...and to talk about current situation

Well ringledingle is the substitute for Ap Steal ( i think mod fix because of some bad word said ) tongue 

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A revamp would only help if the players consider what needs to change, and the only way you guys might do that is by coming to a agreement, which is discussed in a professional manner. As far as I can see, we're not even close within the point of this thread.

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My subject is clear....
I know that there is a revamp in the coming days, maybe months....
The developer team didn't say anything about it nor what they are changing....
my idea is simple, suggest what should be done based on majority wish and everyone is welcome to discuss it...

if you read carefully you will understand what i explained and what i suggested to be done and in a reasonable way
I said every word after a huge research about peoples needs and comments, and most need this change and waiting for it since 2009.

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Aliyazbek|2014-10-13 20:58:30
my idea is simple, suggest what should be done based on majority wish and everyone is welcome to discuss it...
There is a zenith forum for that.

7 page "Xelor Balancing" thread in the Zenith Forum Section Click here
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I honestly think we saw a bit of the new Xelor with the archduk's role in the field.

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