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Sacrier Beta Changes

By SmuglyDuckling#6687 - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - September 18, 2019, 21:35:24

I feel like I may be misunderstanding the proposed Sacrier changes for the upcoming beta according to the dev post.

I really appreciate that the self-casting mechanic is being removed for the listed and obvious reasons: it's needlessly taxing and chokes out multi-elemental builds. I also LIKE the idea of replacing the vitality malus with some other form of penalty, even bringing back self-damage is an interesting idea...

I just don't feel like I understand a situation in which you'd ever want to use the new options. At what point are they ever worth casting, compared to any alternative spell (that doesn't inflict self harm)? Even as a mechanism to reduce your own health voluntarily, opponents fulfill that role more than adequately; and where they don't, the extra damage simply isn't necessary.

The damage on the self-inflicting moves is so low for their penalty, it appears to me that you would almost always be better off casting a life-stealing alternative. This is especially true in the cases of Strength and Agility, whose single target self-wounding attacks are now among the worst among all classes. The damage certainly ramps up as the Sacrier loses health, but the point is that so do all your other attacks! They improve at exactly the same rate. Even when you aren't taking the damage from your own spells anymore--at higher Suffering values--the lack of life steal for a 15% increase in damage feels like an unfavorable trade-off.

An interesting alternative would be that, for example, at 100% health you inflict some (25%) of the damage on the enemy and take most (75%) of the damage yourself. As your health decreases, the distribution tilts in your favor--you take less of the damage and the opponent takes more. The total damage remains the same, but it is just inflicted more-so against the opponent as the Sac gets closer to death (and the base damage value would, of course, be higher).

I'll be interested to see how it feels in practice, but my initial impression is that I'll have a very empty hotbar in the near future.

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After some testing, I can see that things are much worse than I expected. It is no exaggeration that the beta version of the Sacrier is unplayable using the newly modified spells.

The amount of damage I'm dealing to myself is so high compared to the amount inflicted, I can't even kill the 10,000 hp poutch without killing myself, using Clobbering 2x each turn, Stasis once (even recovering some life!). The idea is basically absurd, considering that this is an enemy that can't even fight back!

The self-damage curve is extremely unfavorable; the rate at which it decreases as your life decreases is barely noticeable. These spells are so far beyond worthless that they actually hinder you with their use.

I think that the ultimate evidence of the extremely poor execution of this idea is in the fact that you take additional damage if you are in your own AoE. In what way is it feasible to do more damage to yourself than to the enemy with your own attack, regardless of your life total? If these changes were to go live, the only playable Sacrier would consist of "Bloodbath, Bloodbath, pass."

I mean this in all sincerity: This is the worst version of the Sacrier that has ever existed.

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how's the situation now? i'm comming back to dofus and would like to play sacrier, if he's playable

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They've decided to go ahead with the changes from the Beta server to the Live server, claiming that there was "not enough feedback....." Never-mind the hundreds of forum posts from players who unanimously agreed that the reworked spells are unusable trash (see french forums).

I would 100% avoid the Sac until they decide what they're going to do with it. It is currently a completely ill-considered wreck and, if the communication from the devs is any indication, it's not going to get better any time soon.


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Since you seem to have tested this to at least some degree maybe you can answer me a question: how exactly do you get suffering consistently? It seems like you get maximum one suffering per round and you sometimes lose sufferings at some point by using the steal spells... maybe? But since there is effectively no damn documentation on how all of this works in concert i am just at a lost here.

Oh and yes i totally agree: being a str/agi sac myself i only ever use the steals anymore. idol fights against something above level 100 and trying to do damage as a sac while using the damage spells is basically suicide at this point.

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Suffering is your % life. If you have 60% life, you have 4 suffering, if you have have 40% life you have 6 suffering, if you have 10% life, you have 9. If you have less than 10% you have 10 suffering

Use the 3ap str or agi skills for hurrting yourself. The 4ap is tempting because of the damage but with the 3ap can balance you out. Idk what you run but I run 12 so hurt myself twice than heal myself twice. I still take a bit of damage but it's not too bad.

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thanks a lot for clearing this up for me! That is even more stupid than i anticipated... so i suppose there is currently no reason at all to use anything other than steals unless you want to kill yourself.

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As you can heal yourself with attacks and the neutral damage of Retribution is based on your own eroded HP,  you could use your self damaging spells to ... erode yourself. (Rarely useful if even.) Also to "buff" yourself as suffering increases. No risk, no fun, like they said when they introduced us to this stomach aching mechanic.

Note to myself: Don't use a self damaging spell in Tynril Dungeon or you will one-shot yourself! fear

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Try damaging yourself with oaf idols on wink

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This is actually fixed (or scheduled to be fixed) on the Beta--the new (disappointing) changes won't be live until after December, though.

Other sources of self-damage adjustment, however, cannot be fixed for "technical" reasons (such as Infinite Dreams).

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Skavon|2019-10-31 11:10:33
thanks a lot for clearing this up for me! That is even more stupid than i anticipated... so i suppose there is currently no reason at all to use anything other than steals unless you want to kill yourself.

Ankama has taken this feedback and generously decided to nerf the life-stealing spells in order to make the damaging spells more attractive, in comparison (no, I'm not kidding).

Edit: Meant to reply to the main comment, but this thread is small enough.
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Awww - how very nice of them. I noticed this on live now - great to play sac. I hit like a wet noodle right now! But i suppose that's only fair because i also have to kill myself for it... I would be interested in the reason though but i guess it would be something along the lines of "But mah PVP!!!!"

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