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Sacriers NEED a buff

By ChaosSacrier December 01, 2009, 00:15:47

If you don't read my whole post and the quote, then don't bother to answer, thanks!

Read this first:

milodrahirth|2009-11-17 16:05:00
Haha ^^ It's funny how people go and get owned in pvp, then come here screaming "OP OP!"
Look... Sacriers are not even close to overpowered right now. In any build and with any equipment.
A simple proof? Anyone can get the same 7mp and 10ap, and without a need to buff in order to get high stats. And without the limitation of range that sacriers have on every single spell (yes... Absorption's range is 3!).

Someone up there complained about sacriers being able to heal themselves. Try to see that a sacrier is all based on it's life. It has punishments, it has punishment (spell), it has to walk all the way to cc (or almost cc) range, while being under bombardment by all the ranged classes. It holds the tank role...

Another one complained about not being able to kill a sacrier in cc... A cra... Damn... It's the same thing as a sacrier complaining for not being able to kill a cra from range õ.o Very high damage at close range, and life to survive the approach. This is a sacrier. And it has it's flaws and it's virtues, as every other class.

Now, don't be silly. Actually, i'd argue that sacriers are actually in need of improvement. They need their attraction, coop and transp range back! It was important... Also, make their buffs unbewitchable! Damn, it's so trivial. That's how they become usefull damagers in pvm. They need those stats. Ankama has nerfed too much both things sacriers revolve around... teleporting and dealing cc damage! Please, reimprove sacriers and give back their heart.


I agree with EVERYTHING milodrahirth said, as everyone thinks, THEY ARE NOT OP! Actually they even need a buff now, seriously, they buffed them a bit when 1.29 came out, now we can't even get stats when the damage is higher than the +stats we actually buff from the punishemnt at max... I don't ask too much, but please, at least give them Dancing Sword and the old Punishment system back, I would suggest to replace Flying Sword with Dancing Sword, and I really hope that you give us our old Wise Punishment back, wich increases our Wisdom for easier leveling and resistance against MP (!!) and AP rapes, Vital Punishment is useless... And at the end, we only get 1K more Vitality then other Vitality Builds

DISCUSS biggrin
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Score : 1746

Sacriers don't need a buff at all. That's really all there is to say about it.

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Score : 11632

Please look around Sacriers who PvP, most of them you will see have high rank wings, a buff isn't necessary but at the same time maybe a nerf isn't. Look Sacriers have so much life, they can teleport quickly to the opposing player, and while they are getting hit trying to reach they are also buffed up of course. Once they reach the player is most likely dead, also Punishment have some beastly hits when thier hp reaches half. Just think about all thier powers and you won't have the need to call out a buff in which ankama probably won't do just for one player. smile

-xdark-osamodax

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thisgameizfun|2009-12-01 02:19:00
Please look around Sacriers who PvP, most of them you will see have high rank wings, a buff isn't necessary but at the same time maybe a nerf isn't. Look Sacriers have so much life, they can teleport quickly to the opposing player, and while they are getting hit trying to reach they are also buffed up of course. Once they reach the player is most likely dead, also Punishment have some beastly hits when thier hp reaches half. Just think about all thier powers and you won't have the need to call out a buff in which ankama probably won't do just for one player. smile

-xdark-osamodax


Yea, we have high Vitality, and that's only 1K more than an other Vitality Build, punishment isn't that good, think about all other spells of other chars:
Iop's Wrath ("The End", enough said)
Jump (Combine this with Wrath and it would become "The REAL End")
Atonement Arrow (Weaker than the end)
Slaughtering Shovel (Does some REAL damage, this spell is also combined with a MP theft/Unbewitch class...)
Vampiric Word (Steals HP, and this spell is on a class which even can heal himself...)
Rekop (Not too dangerous, but if it gets a crit, you'll be almost game over >_&ltwink

There are many other spells, but I don't want to list them. As you can see, there are many spells much better and even OP than just Punishment, if our enemy is a Cra, it would be hard getting there, and even if we do, we only have like 50% of our Vitality left...
Want to post more, but I'm kinda sleepy...
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ChaosSacrier|2009-11-30 23:56:00
even if we do, we only have like 50% of our Vitality left...


Oh, look at that. Punishment. Hehe, he's down about 1200 HP.

And hey, thanks to the stat punishments that were cast earlier in the match, the Sacrier's stats are up by 1000. Let's go ahead and throw out a couple weapon attacks... Wham, about 800 damage each hit.

That Cra isn't looking so great anymore.
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One of your major points seem to be that Sacriers only have 1k more HP than other Vitality builds.

While that may be true, not every class can get 1000 in a stat without any equipment whatsoever. If a L200 Ecaflip places all his points into Vitality, the highest amount of equipmentless damage he can do is what, 75? 100?

Sacriers are fine as they are.

Not insanely overpowered per se, but not in need of buffing.

Edit:

Oh, this is famous.

You actually want to compare spell damages between classes?

Punishment>All. Nuff said.

Edit 2: Not to mention the 'you only say that because you lose to xxx-class in PvP' line doesn't really make you come off as an impartial judge.

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ChaosSacrier|2009-12-01 08:56:00
You only said that because you always lose to Sacriers in PvP


I played a sacrier before Strokens came out, and I hardly ever lost, even to other sacriers.

I played an agility Sram when strokens did come out, and I still hardly ever lost to sacriers.

Currently, I play a cha/wis Xelor, and although I don't PvP much, I have yet to lose to a sacrier.

Basically, I'm not sure where that nonsense comes from, but you're wrong.

Edit: minor spelling issues.
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Old punishment system was abused in pvm, Flying sword allows to use transposition thus allow even more control over the battlefield. Vital punishment isn't useless if you are cha or int specced, or you know if you group pvm or pvp where you have a healer.

Iop's wrath is only deadly on the 4th turn, and sac's have this amazing little spell called evasion, when even not lvled is basically (LOL WRATH HAHA). Have you ever seen an Iop with 12ap without a biff from another player? Because that is how much they need to jump and wrath same turn. Atonement Arrow is like 8 minimum range if I remember, its main use in pvp is not to deal damage put to inflict gravity state. Slaughtering shovel does damage but not as much as punishment. Ya enus are a slight mp theft class with an u/b but they only have 1? way to get out of close combat with you unless they have more agi. Ok you got me on rekop, that sell is uber IF the eca has WoF up and a good %dmg set, but basically has a 1/2 fail rate so half is average dmg.

To capwi, the statement "Punishment>all" is incorrect, the OP did state (indirectly) that punishment is situational damage and is only decent damage from like 37-63% life (depends what you call decent)

So In conclusion, we are fine the way we are, some minor tweeks might need to be made in either direction.

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Score : 431

Ok, all of you are right, if not, then someone beneath you has corrected the answer smile but there are still flaws... get this: They need their attraction, cooperation and transposition range back! It was important... Also, make their buffs unbewitchable! It's so friggin' annoying when someone unbewitches you and all your buffs get messed up... at least I want the old punishment system back, gettin' hit for like 20 and get buffed for 100 str or sumthin' OR that punishments get unbewitchable OR that Attraction, Cooperation and Transposition get their range back...

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So hitting 100 damage all around you and gaining about 120+ health back at level 30 is bad?

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ChaosSacrier|2009-12-01 17:16:00
Ok, all of you are right, if not, then someone beneath you has corrected the answer smile but there are still flaws... get this: They need their attraction, cooperation and transposition range back! It was important... Also, make their buffs unbewitchable! It's so friggin' annoying when someone unbewitches you and all your buffs get messed up... at least I want the old punishment system back, gettin' hit for like 20 and get buffed for 100 str or sumthin' OR that punishments get unbewitchable OR that Attraction, Cooperation and Transposition get their range back...


Yeah it's also annoying when people resist my AP steals even when my wisdom far exceeds theirs, but what can you do?
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ChaosSacrier|2009-12-01 16:16:00
Ok, all of you are right, if not, then someone beneath you has corrected the answer smile but there are still flaws... get this: They need their attraction, cooperation and transposition range back! It was important... Also, make their buffs unbewitchable! It's so friggin' annoying when someone unbewitches you and all your buffs get messed up... at least I want the old punishment system back, gettin' hit for like 20 and get buffed for 100 str or sumthin' OR that punishments get unbewitchable OR that Attraction, Cooperation and Transposition get their range back...


And there goes your entire PvP backing.

Try getting hit for 2100 and buffed with 50 str?
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Ramassee|2009-12-01 11:53:00
To capwi, the statement "Punishment>all" is incorrect, the OP did state (indirectly) that punishment is situational damage and is only decent damage from like 37-63% life (depends what you call decent)


Half of the spells he mentioned are also situational (Wrath and Atonement are charge spells, Vampiric has Linear restriction, Jump is irrelevant)

I was merely comparing damages. You can hardly argue that Punishment doesn't have the highest maximum damage potential in solo play. (Ignoring 7 Panda 1 Iop lineups >.&ltwink

In that case, Punishment does indeed > All other spells in terms of damage.
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Capwi|2009-12-02 05:22:00
And there goes your entire PvP backing.

Try getting hit for 2100 and buffed with 50 str?


No, not that system, the system that you get hit (Doesn't matter what the damage is) and get 140+ in the stats, THAT one, and I'm not talking about low levels, I'm talking in high levels, and none gave a good answer why we have 1K more HP than other Vitality builds... neither they did with the range and number of casts each turn
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MisterJeffy|2009-12-01 23:57:00
Yeah it's also annoying when people resist my AP steals even when my wisdom far exceeds theirs, but what can you do?


Get more Wisdom, Overmage your equips more than they are now, we can't do anything when our punishments get unbewitched, you can...
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Capwi|2009-12-02 05:29:00
Half of the spells he mentioned are also situational (Wrath and Atonement are charge spells, Vampiric has Linear restriction, Jump is irrelevant)

I was merely comparing damages. You can hardly argue that Punishment doesn't have the highest maximum damage potential in solo play. (Ignoring 7 Panda 1 Iop lineups >.&ltwink

In that case, Punishment does indeed > All other spells in terms of damage.


That's only when we have high HP, but no Sacrier concentrates about his HP as his HP is already high enough
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ChaosSacrier|2009-12-02 07:52:00
Get more Wisdom, Overmage your equips more than they are now, we can't do anything when our punishments get unbewitched, you can...

All equips maxed in wisd if not overmaged. +50 cawwot dofus. Wisd scrolled to 101 and all points into it. AP-theft still being dodged. Im willing to bet that overmaging every single piece of equipment wont make a diffference so wont bother with the effort.

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ChaosSacrier|2009-12-02 08:50:00
No, not that system, the system that you get hit (Doesn't matter what the damage is) and get 140+ in the stats, THAT one, and I'm not talking about low levels, I'm talking in high levels, and none gave a good answer why we have 1K more HP than other Vitality builds... neither they did with the range and number of casts each turn


What system is this? To my memory there have only been two Punishment systems.

You have 1k more Hp more than other vitality builds because the softcaps for Vitality for Sacriers are 1:2 instead of 1:1 like the other classes. There you go.
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thisgameizfun|2009-12-01 01:19:00
Please look around Sacriers who PvP, most of them you will see have high rank wings, a buff isn't necessary but at the same time maybe a nerf isn't.

Actually, kinda indicates a nerf is necessary.

Also, the 7MP thing - not every char can have it. Most of the MP items are agi-based so that's all non-agi builds who can't have it for a start.

Most classes need stats, especially the 80+ from pet/mount and especially in PvM. Sacs don't, and being 99% CC it's just quicker to have the 5+MP in PvM too. And you can't say, "oh a sac just aggro'd me, I'll nip off to the paddock and get my MP mount".

Lastly, a lot of sac players are really really aggressive and that doesn't make for a good thread. Ankama can see how much sacs win. So they'll ignore this thread anyway.
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About the ranges of attraction, coop, and trans. Lets see attraction is still 14 and I rarely notice that I cannot attract things unless i'm severely range drained. (Old attraction was a bit overpowered so I have/had no issue with the slight nerf). Coop and Trans ranges weren't nerfed that much and it was mainly to give +range more meaning to a sac (honestly we used to not need it all).

Now for the punishments being u/bed really? Try playing a feca when they get u/bed or an eca or a cra or an xelor or you know like any class that uses buffs. All classes can have their buffs u/bed so stop crying bout that unless you want to make everything un u/b able but then why have the spells at all?

And i can argue that punishment doesn't have the highest maximum damage potential (Rekop has 168? base damage maximum) but I won't because thats counter effective to the thread.

The old punishment system, choas, was a 1 turn duration buff. During that round any hits you received no matter how hard gave u 40-50(might be slightly off on that number) of the stat. Now where in some cases this was awesome (2k-3k agi in ghosts ftw) it also had many downsides in solo play and could very easily be countered in group pvp (coop the sac after he casts his punishment and no one hit him for that round as an example). So honestly even tho the old system had its perks, i'll take the current one atm.

As for no one giving you a good reason for why we ONLY (ya lol w/e) have 1000 more hp than other vitality builds. capwi's first post in this thread is a pretty good reason. But if for some reason you need more here it is: Why should we think that we need more hp than another class who chooses to do the SAME thing we r essentially forced to do. Other classes that go full vitality choose to have more survivability at the cost of base stats (like us) except like capwi said, they do not have the ability to gain up to 1000 of stats in combat.

O no someone who pvps has high rank wings nerf them! Pretty much anyone who pvps for a good amount of time thats any good with their class will have high rank wings. High rank wings doesn't really mean that they are overpowered. Also you get honor for attacking prisms and for group aligned pvp. Sacs do need stats as well, we do not always get hit as much as we would like, and stats from gear affect our spells just like yours. O ya define aggressive because we probably have two different veiws on what that means in game.

O ya sorry for the wall of text but there wer a lot of posts I wanted to respond to and I do not like double and triple posting lol. I responded to each post in order if that helps you navigate what paragraph is about your post XD.

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