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Improvements For Bomb Placement & Ap Cost?

By Gaurdvior December 16, 2010, 23:52:53

Alright.
So after playing my Rogue, and trying out some of the spells, its come to my attention, 1 bomb per turn.. Is by far, not enough. And if our main source of dmg is going to be from bombs, we really need to be able to plant more.

An avg bomb for me, does about 30 dmg, At lvl 24. This is easily, one of the lowest dmg dealing spells.
And even when using Explobomb on a target, you cannot use another bomb after it.

Maybe its just me, but, I really feel like being able to place more bombs, would stop alot of the complaining going on, and help the class tremendously.
If Bombs were castable like traps, increasing the amount able to be casted each lvl, I think it would stop alot of complaining. smile

Next.
If you go through any of the spells, the AP cost never changes, through 1 to 6. It seems really inconvenient. For Ex: Having to waste 10 AP to use 2 Blunderbuss, as a lvl 6 spell, with minimal changes, other than dmg, is pointless.

Just my 2 Cents.

What do you guys think?

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Gaurdvior|2010-12-17 00:52:00
Alright.
So after playing my Rogue, and trying out some of the spells, its come to my attention, 1 bomb per turn.. Is by far, not enough. And if our main source of dmg is going to be from bombs, we really need to be able to plant more.

An avg bomb for me, does about 30 dmg, At lvl 24. This is easily, one of the lowest dmg dealing spells.
And even when using Explobomb on a target, you cannot use another bomb after it.

Maybe its just me, but, I really feel like being able to place more bombs, would stop alot of the complaining going on, and help the class tremendously. smile

Next.
If you go through any of the spells, the AP cost never changes, through 1 to 6. It seems really inconvenient. For Ex: Having to waste 10 AP to use 2 Blunderbuss, as a lvl 6 spell, with minimal changes, other than dmg, is pointless.

Just my 2 Cents.

What do you guys think?


You should get the class to higher levels before starting to complain. I am having headaches since I started playing with a rogue, it is really slow but that is why I like it. The AP cost of spells are ok, have you seen the area of effect of blunderbuss yet? It seems to be really big, the same applies to Carbine. Also, the only thing that is pretty inconvenient is the HP of the bombs, and maybe, the AP cost. Dropping it to 2 and increasing the HP of it at all levels would be already nice.

I know this class sounds really weak in the begginining but something tells me that at higher levels it becomes strong. Since the base damage of Explobomb is 10~12 at level five, it might go to around 12~15 at level six. It is low damage, you'd be doing 100-130 after 100 with bombs without buffs, I can see this class getting extremely strong later on with these buffs that add 90 damage to a bomb XD! That would be already 190-220.

We first need to see how it is later on, I just face this class as a Pandawa. They are hard enough to level but very interesting to play once they hit the right levels.

Note: if Blunderbuss cost 4 AP at level six it would be overpowered. A chance build at level 190 can reach 360-400 damage with that spell and still add 25% to permanent damage, meaning that if you target is an eni, It will not be able to cure its whole life for 1 turn, 25% will be missing, twice means 50% of the HP is unhealable.
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Niddhoggy|2010-12-17 00:34:00
90 can reach 360-400 damage with that spell and still add 25% to permanent damage, meaning that if you target is an eni, It will not be able to cure its whole life for 1 turn, 25% will be missing, twice means 50% of the HP is unhealable.


360-400 damage at level 190 is absolutely nothing. (Although they would hit quite a bit more than that)

Also, ifit's good against enis, good. Enis are overpowered at epic levels in PvP, so perhaps this would help.
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Gaurdvior|2010-12-16 23:52:00
Alright.
So after playing my Rogue, and trying out some of the spells, its come to my attention, 1 bomb per turn.. Is by far, not enough. And if our main source of dmg is going to be from bombs, we really need to be able to plant more.

An avg bomb for me, does about 30 dmg, At lvl 24. This is easily, one of the lowest dmg dealing spells.
And even when using Explobomb on a target, you cannot use another bomb after it.

Maybe its just me, but, I really feel like being able to place more bombs, would stop alot of the complaining going on, and help the class tremendously. smile

Next.
If you go through any of the spells, the AP cost never changes, through 1 to 6. It seems really inconvenient. For Ex: Having to waste 10 AP to use 2 Blunderbuss, as a lvl 6 spell, with minimal changes, other than dmg, is pointless.

Just my 2 Cents.

What do you guys think?

i agree for me to be able to only place one bomb of my element a turn, and only be able to have three of them at once is too limiting
i think the amount allowed out and the amount placeable per turn should go up with the level
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QUOTE
You should get the class to higher levels before starting to complain. I am having headaches since I started playing with a rogue, it is really slow but that is why I like it. The AP cost of spells are ok, have you seen the area of effect of blunderbuss yet? It seems to be really big, the same applies to Carbine. Also, the only thing that is pretty inconvenient is the HP of the bombs, and maybe, the AP cost. Dropping it to 2 and increasing the HP of it at all levels would be already nice.

I know this class sounds really weak in the begginining but something tells me that at higher levels it becomes strong. Since the base damage of Explobomb is 10~12 at level five, it might go to around 12~15 at level six. It is low damage, you'd be doing 100-130 after 100 with bombs without buffs, I can see this class getting extremely strong later on with these buffs that add 90 damage to a bomb XD! That would be already 190-220.

We first need to see how it is later on, I just face this class as a Pandawa. They are hard enough to level but very interesting to play once they hit the right levels.

Note: if Blunderbuss cost 4 AP at level six it would be overpowered. A chance build at level 190 can reach 360-400 damage with that spell and still add 25% to permanent damage, meaning that if you target is an eni, It will not be able to cure its whole life for 1 turn, 25% will be missing, twice means 50% of the HP is unhealable.


I see your point. I guess all Im really getting at is that, it'd be nice to be able to place 2 bombs, instead of one. Just to make things a little faster. Because, even if Blunderbuss is great. You don't get it until lvl 90. And in the meantime, you get Deception, which is a close combat attack. So your only option for a ranged attack, is the Water Bomb, and only being able to cast it once, is going be a pain. And then having to buff you bomb, only wastes your AP..

I also agree, the bomb should, indeed, have a little more HP.

QUOTE
i agree for me to be able to only place one bomb of my element a turn, and only be able to have three of them at once is too limiting
i think the amount allowed out and the amount placeable per turn should go up with the level


It really is. And its difficult to fight when your main source of dmg, are the bombs.
If they were played more like Sram traps, I think It'd be so so so much easier!
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all id like to see is either the bombs being invisible or for the monsters not to react to them the way they do, i mean i place a bomb on the map and the monster just ends up running right around it, even if i placed 3 bombs in a line the monster would just go right around the map to avoid them... so kinda pointless even putting them down i think

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I've noticed what the above person posted. Monsters do tend to avoid the bombs, but wouldn't any of us avoid the bombs?? Remember that rogues are not a rush in there, blow everything up and done class, the spells are the way they are to make you think about what you want to do.

I don't think they need to have bombs castable twice a turn. They'd be too powerful then, as the more bombs you blow up close to each other increases their damage, and you can only have a max of 3 of each bomb out in a battle. Ap costs may not be set in stone but they're also not terrible, you can still do quite a bit between placing a bomb, moving it around, attacking and what not.

Remember though that this is sorta a beta period for the class so when the class is officially released it could end up being completely different then it is now (which I hope not, I haven't seen anything wrong with it so far.)

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I think the kicking move should work like sram's fear (you can select how for the bomb is kicked).

Just think, if there is a ball in front of you, you can kick it hard or soft or medium right? Same should be in the game for kicking bombs.
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Rogues are unique. My lvl 1x rogue has hit as high and some lvl 30s out there as the forum tells. So wait til higher lvl to complain which is the problem with pvp aka why they made rogue's unable to pvp. I do think the cast limit should be 6 bombs, with a smaller boost or lower the cd on some spells. And kickback acting like fear on bombs would be awesome. It would give more control and be kicka$$. Btw, if any of you noticed sacrifice works on bombs. That way getting them setup is easy. And, if you have a sac lock a boss for example and then pile up bombs to hit boss that works as well. Not so well with a bunch of things, but the sac does not move it just takes dmg. The class spell gives me ides for osas beyond belief, but the spell is a waste to me at low lvls. I knw it will help to get the boms in place later, but for SP that i need for other things meh. Also CC wep is nice for the great caps woot.

~KAN~

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Forget if boomerang dags goes to 4ap at 6, but that spell would be good 4ap spell. Half crits which is easy only means doing your +dmg x2. This can be good unless something has resist or reflects. And the int spell like absorb would be better as 2ap or 3ap, whatever one is 1ap less than normal. Yes it has range, but vamp/absorb/absorbative all do more for same ap cost. It would not hurt as less ap as it is 1 per target anyways. And if locked kickback for 2more ap would have to be used. Dunnol what else to say right now, not on dofus atm so forget what i have to comment on lol. You can criticize or agree just think some tweaks would better the class for now, but yet to have tested higher lvls so don't jude me tongue

~KAN~

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atm the rogue class is out and... i think they should be allowed to use 2 bomabs in 1 turn....rogues r a very weak class atm and are definetly not supposed to be used for pvp....this needs to change to give them a chance

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Just killed my whole team because bomb did pushback damage on Mastogob Dungeon biggrin this class is extremely useful in dungeon fights!

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I agree with you in terms, maybe at higher level it gets better but one thing is bothering me . I know ankama doesn't want us to spam bomb as srams sometimes spam traps but its quite weak like it is right now. First, kickback spell is good but it should work like fear, you control the range to throw the bomb.
Second, why doesn't different bombs get a combo damage explosion?! They are bombs too! It's so hard to get 2 bombs even 3 of em in field this combo damage increase is pointless if you can't combo in one turn.
Third, why can't a kickback throw everybomb in line? so that you could creat two close bombs and with 1 kickback get 'em where you wanna. 
I believe this are just ideas, wish they could be truelly heard because rogues are too weak for a wonderful tactical idea. Now that maskeraiders (zobals) are here I can't really see the challenge between this two classes, rogues have no chance against maskeraiders they are so much better.

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everyone keeps saying rogues are too weak for pvp, but rogues are even too weak for pvm because of the lack of turns you can do something in.

only 1x bomb per turn
can only kick 2x per turn
can't detonate other rogues bombs.
can't make walls with other rogue bombs.
can't match other type bombs together.
can't control distance.
bombs die on impact.
bombs get killed first and so damn easily.
no real close combat spells
lack of combinations
wall's don't always work and take too long to make.
count down's fail due to bombs dieing too fast.
why do bombs fly when you kick them and enemy/allies only 1 square?

the class is just a huge disaster... and for sure needs to be redone.

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Don't necropost, and didn't rogues get a buff already with the recent update?

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Ethelwolf|2011-04-02 03:18:34
everyone keeps saying rogues are too weak for pvp, but rogues are even too weak for pvm because of the lack of turns you can do something in.

only 1x bomb per turn
can only kick 2x per turn
can't detonate other rogues bombs.
can't make walls with other rogue bombs.
can't match other type bombs together.
can't control distance.
bombs die on impact.
bombs get killed first and so damn easily.
no real close combat spells
lack of combinations
wall's don't always work and take too long to make.
count down's fail due to bombs dieing too fast.

the class is just a huge disaster... and for sure needs to be redone.


Rogues got a significant buff. Their combos require patience and Ankama said that before they released the class. I am a lot happier now, we're pretty balanced. Sometimes we look overpowered, when we activate a good combo, but people just don't know how hard is to make a good combosmile and they say it is overpowered.

This one took around 6 turns, I was fighting and left 3 bombs laying and when I had the chance I buffed them and:

Combo: +394% explosion damage
Yellowstone casts Destructive Arrow.
Grenado casts Roguish Tornado.
Grenado casts Roguish Tornado.
Grenado casts Roguish Tornado.
Grenado:-302 HP.
Mopy King:-867 HP.
Mopy King:-739 HP.
Mopy King:-781 HP.
Grenado is dead.

Rogues are fine, you just need to learn how to fight with them. I am still learning with the new update, today I died because a monster attacked my Bomb and it exploded, killing me (Powder FTW!)

Anyways! Don't give upbiggrin!
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Niddhoggy|2011-04-02 03:24:51
Ethelwolf|2011-04-02 03:18:34
everyone keeps saying rogues are too weak for pvp, but rogues are even too weak for pvm because of the lack of turns you can do something in.

only 1x bomb per turn
can only kick 2x per turn
can't detonate other rogues bombs.
can't make walls with other rogue bombs.
can't match other type bombs together.
can't control distance.
bombs die on impact.
bombs get killed first and so damn easily.
no real close combat spells
lack of combinations
wall's don't always work and take too long to make.
count down's fail due to bombs dieing too fast.

the class is just a huge disaster... and for sure needs to be redone.


Rogues got a significant buff. Their combos require patience and Ankama said that before they released the class. I am a lot happier now, we're pretty balanced. Sometimes we look overpowered, when we activate a good combo, but people just don't know how hard is to make a good combosmile and they say it is overpowered.

This one took around 6 turns, I was fighting and left 3 bombs laying and when I had the chance I buffed them and:

Combo: +394% explosion damage
Yellowstone casts Destructive Arrow.
Grenado casts Roguish Tornado.
Grenado casts Roguish Tornado.
Grenado casts Roguish Tornado.
Grenado:-302 HP.
Mopy King:-867 HP.
Mopy King:-739 HP.
Mopy King:-781 HP.
Grenado is dead.

Rogues are fine, you just need to learn how to fight with them. I am still learning with the new update, today I died because a monster attacked my Bomb and it exploded, killing me (Powder FTW!)

Anyways! Don't give upbiggrin!

but the fact the bombs die so easily how can you keep the bombs alive when archers are about? or even monsters such as moowolf who have 7mp to start with and can easily run up and kill all of em?
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He managed to pull it off against a Mopy King, which appears to be an equal feat to doing this against Moo. Very nifty combo. Takes time to set up but makes an Eca blush. smile 

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HeavensKing|2010-12-18 17:33:34
all id like to see is either the bombs being invisible or for the monsters not to react to them the way they do, i mean i place a bomb on the map and the monster just ends up running right around it, even if i placed 3 bombs in a line the monster would just go right around the map to avoid them... so kinda pointless even putting them down i think
i dont even play a rogue but i understand how they are played, your thinking exploding your bomb is your damage, sadly its not, your goal is to do damage with fire/air/water walls and when you can reach max damage explode your bombs, they arnt meant to be tosses out there like traps from a sram, its a combo class, NOT 3 bombs for 3 turns is your combo. its about bomb manipulation.
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Indeed Rogues are very strong at the moment.
Though good strategy is required, I can one hit Royal gobbal with my Lv 7x rogue now.

It does require like 6turns to set up this combo but it will be awarded.
And while you wait for the mobs to get to the bombs you just spam Carbine (or whatever spell you use, I'm agility).

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