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Feca Shield Merger

By Bujax April 25, 2012, 23:39:20

With the merging of Feca armors in talk for a long time (it's likely to happen after the vuln merge) fecas would have 3 new spell slots to occupy.

There were quite a few threads about it with some good ideas:
- Click here
- Click here
- Click here
- Click here
- Click here

Interesting new mechanics that have been suggested (both on the public forum and in the Zenith):
- Ice glyph - a glyph that causes anyone who steps on it (or is pushed onto it) to slide across. Anyone who starts the turn on the glyph suffers water damage. Each cell moved across the glyph could also cause damage.
- Portal glyph - places two 1 cell glyphs - stepping on one teleports to the other (as long as the exit is not occupied) (reserved for the Eliatrope class? smile )
- Support Auras - players near the feca get some sort of protection or bonus (e.g. armor or AP/MP res, %dmg), the effect can't be unbewitched from them (only from the feca)
- Glyph immunity spell - castable on self or allies, either greatly reducing or negating glyph-type damage
- Wall-like glyph - small box, fully blocking LoS and CC
- Trap-like glyph - circular or linear glyph that causes damage whenever walked/moved onto (unlike a trap it "detonates" every time it's stepped on for the duration of the spell and only hurts the character that moves)
- Earthen/Feca Arena - a large ring shaped glyph that causes damage when someone starts their turn on it and either damage or %dmg debuff when someone walks on it (or is pushed onto it)
- Gravity vortex - cross attraction on a center cell (like panda's barrel or a reverse dispersing arrow)

Damage spell suggestions:
- Str or cha glyph - boost the off-element builds, possibly add a small MP steal effect
- Dust cloud/storm - AoE weak earth damage, also suggested as a generic elemental spell
- Shield bash - AoE earth/fire damage spell (similar to lightning)

Support spell suggestions:
- Various support glyphs - AP boost, %dmg boost, %res, healing (though anytime someone suggests a healing glyph, there's at least one comment about having one already - cawwot smile )
- Summon/Golem - either a shielding summon, a static durable LoS blocker, or something that can push/attract stuff onto glyphs
- Int steal or %dmg steal - effect added to a new dmg spell
- AP/MP resist armor - unlikely since this effect was already removed, but could return as a seperate shorter-duration armor, possibly single-target
- dodge/lock boosting spell to get away from enemies or lock someone on a glyph

What are your opinions on the proposed mechanics? Any tweaks? Abuse loopholes? Do you have some suggestions of your own new spells?

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I think that some agi spells should be introduced to fecas, maybe a glyph, an agi steal spell and a ranged damage one.

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I've already stated my opinion on this in a topic.

Oh and your links are broken, you should delete the http:// at the beginning before putting in a link.
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Thanks for the great suggestions Giga, I don't know how I've missed your topic, but I'm surprised at how similar our ideas were smile
I also fixed the links and added in your thread.

Quote (ILunatica @ 2012-04-26 03:10:41)I think that some agi spells should be introduced to fecas, maybe a glyph, an agi steal spell and a ranged damage one.
I think one of the devs or the French CM commented that they're not planning on adding a fourth element to the feca, but will try to slighlty buff non-int builds.

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Very nice stuff Giga, I added direct quote of your proposal here for easier reading ^^. The -mp resistance is an idea I like a lot. Maybe increasing -mp resistance but removing -mp effect would make the slick glyph more balanced. I like the idea of -mp removal on a water glyph, but I'm afraid it'd be too powerful with the already strong paralyzing glyph.

Giga-Biga-Bowser|null

1
Shield Bash: Replaces Windy Armor.

Basis: The idea behind this idea is to give Fecas a unique damaging spell in the shape of their signature shields. The spell in itself can be used as a defensive measure in the case of being crowded in by the enemy. +Dmg, a major contributor to Natural Attacks damage, also plays a large role in the damage caused by this spell. The higher ap cost prevents abuse. but it's not too high to be a burden.

Description: The Feca flares his shield outward in an attempt to damage his foes. Deals Earth and Fire damage in an Area of Effect
Note: Before anyone asks, 2C means Two Circular AoE; In other words, the same AoE as the shields.

Spell Guts
Range is 0 for all leveles
Level 1: Costs 6ap to cast; 3-5 Fire and 3-5 Earth damage; 2C AoE around the caster; +2 base dmg on crit
Level 2: Costs 6ap to cast; 4-6 Fire and 4-6 Earth damage; 2C AoE around the caster; +2 base dmg on crit
Level 3: Costs 6ap to cast; 5-7 Fire and 5-7 Earth damage; 2C AoE around the caster; +2 base dmg on crit
Level 4: Costs 5ap to cast; 5-7 Fire and 5-7 Earth damage; 2C AoE around the caster; +2 base dmg on crit
Level 5: Costs 5ap to cast; 6-8 Fire and 6-8 Earth damage; 2C AoE around the caster; +2 base dmg on crit
Level 6: Costs 4ap to cast; 8-10 Fire and 8-10 Earth damage; 2C AoE around the caster; +3 base dmg on crit

* Range of this spell is changed from 0 to 0-1 with the Class Boots equipped.

2.
Dust Storm: Replaces Aqueous Armor.

Basis: The idea behind this spell is to give Strength Fecas the ability to weakly hit opposing enemies at range. It also gives Fecas a ranged AoE attack other than Glyphs. This spell will also provide a minor Critical Failure affect to further add to the Fecas role of defending their allies.

Description: The Feca kicks up a Dust Storm with his staff which whirls up into a small tornado, hindering the opponents vision while also dealing minor Strength AoE damage.

Spell Guts:
This spell does not have a critical hit.
Cast limit is 1 per turn
Range is unmodifiable
Level 1: Costs 4ap to cast; 2-4 Earth damage; 4-8 range; 1C AoE; +1 CFs
Level 2: Costs 4ap to cast; 2-5 Earth damage; 4-8 range; 1C AoE; +2 CFs
Level 3: Costs 4ap to cast; 2-6 Earth damage; 4-9 range; 1C AoE; +3 CFs
Level 4: Costs 4ap to cast; 3-6 Earth damage; 4-9 range; 1C AoE; +4 CFs
Level 5: Costs 4ap to cast; 4-6 Earth damage; 4-10 range; 1C AoE; +4 CFs
Level 6: Costs 3ap to cast; 4-7 Earth damage; 4-10 range; 1C AoE; +5 CFs

* Cast limit is changed from 1 to 2 with the Class Ring equipped.

3.
Slick Glyph: Replaces Glowing Armor

Basis: The idea behind this spell is mainly to give Chance Fecas a glyph that they can call their own, while also keeping it useful to the other Elemental builds. This spell also contributes to the Fecas wisdom build role by adding a minor -mp resist debuff to the enemy when the glyph is activated. The spell is also intended to be random.

Description: The Feca creates a glyph on the ground, making that area extremely slippery. Causes Water damage in the glyphs Area of Effect while slowing the enemy.

Spell Guts:
Always 3 turn Cooldown
Level 1: Costs 3ap to cast; 1-8 Water damage; 1-3 range; 2C AoE; -1mp; - 2mp resistance; Glyph lasts 2 turns
Level 2: Costs 3ap to cast; 1-9 Water damage; 1-4 range; 2C AoE; -1mp; -2mp resistance; Glyph lasts 2 turns
Level 3: Costs 3ap to cast; 1-10 Water damage; 1-5 range; 2C AoE; -1mp; -2mp resistance; Glyph lasts 2 turns
Level 4: Costs 3ap to cast; 1-11 Water damage; 1-6 range; 2C AoE; -1mp; -2mp resistance; Glyph lasts 3 turns
Level 5: Costs 3ap to cast; 1-12 Water damage; 1-7 range; 2C AoE; -1mp; -2mp resistance; Glyph lasts 3 turns
Level 6: Costs 3ap to cast; 4-15 Water damage; 1-8 range; 2C AoE; -1mp; -3mp resistance; Glyph lasts 3 turns

* Cooldown changes from 3 to 2 with the Class Belt

Note: I personally think Slick Glyph needs a little more modifications before it's suitable for gameplay.


Here is mine, maybe too much of a buff to non-int build (depends on devs opinion about it). I consider glyph as a feca's signature move, so I'd totally love to see some with str and cha elements.

Ilovebidou|null
supposing elemental shields get merged into one with same reduction values + cooldown
water glyph - true water spell making the chance element viable
  • circle of 2 cells,
  • linear cast,
  • 0 to 4 range boostable,
  • can be placed directly on target,
  • -1mp removal in the center only.
  • 3AP cost and similar hitting values to burning glyph. Duration and cd 2.
strength arena - same than water, aiming at making str element totally viable
  • circular ring glyph of 3 (only the outer ring),
  • linear cast,
  • 0 to 2 range non boostable,
  • you control the glyph position by placing the center of the ring and it can be placed directly on a target,
  • Higher damage than burning glyph if you start on it (35 at lvl 6?) / No damage but lower %damage if you walk through it (-100%dam at lvl 6?) The difficulty of placement in a battelfield with allies around would compensate for high hitting power.
  • 4 AP cost. Duration and cd 2.
shepherd state - rather than introducing special support spell, working on state/glyphs
  • If casted on allies: render them immune to glyph damage and buff their %Damage or +damage for every glyph they start their turn on. (+30%damage or +10dam at lvl 6?)
  • If casted on ennemies: lower %res for every glyph they start on (-5% at lvl 6?)
  • 2AP, circle of 2 AoE, range 0 to 7 boostable, non linear, duration 2 turns, cooldown 7 at lvl 6.
uhuh I duno, maybe too powerfull, maybe keepin only one of the 2 effects, (ally or ennemies) but u get the state idea.

NB: Given the crazy range of alteration spells/ shielding spells we have. Here's the list of things I ruled out for new spells:

- another fire spell. Fire branch already has enough offensive power
- an air spell. 3 elements is enough to focus on
- map manipulation spell. I don't believe fecas should have any map manipulation spells at all, it's not their role. Lot of spells are linear and short range, their weakness can be exploited by ennemies. If fecas gain more mobility, then they have one less weakness and they don't need such a gift.
- more linear res. Linear res on shield is already huge, improving it would make no sense.
- more %res. feca shield + reinforcement.. enough ^^
- giving AP. rogue, eni, xel, eca is good. Lets keep it to that.
- direct healing spell. feca and eni into one. healing back the very few hp you lose is bound to an OP result
 
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I've been campaigning for that "Muddy Glyph" (-MP on target only) for quite some time. I hope to see it take off. I think your AoE should be reduced to 1 cross though, Fire builds really only have AoE damage going for them.

Talith's "Feca's Arena" as I call it is a really great idea! I like your twist on it to make it deal -Power when walking over it instead of damage though...that is a really neat idea. The -Power is a very big deterent when fighting a Feca as you need those heavy hits to break through the shields. It also makes pushback a further bane of the Feca, as they themselves can be given the -Power debuff. I would like to propose the Feca enter the Gravity State for the duration of Feca's Arena however. Or at least a State which makes Teleportation unavailable.

I'd like topropose a slight change for Shepherd State. Make it range 1. You could thus cast it northeast, southeast, southwest, or northwest (due to the orientation of the grid) of the Feca. This spell would teleport the closest linear ally to the targeted cell. So basically it would be like an infinite linear AoE that would be like Attraction. Allies only and only the first ally in that linear path. It could perhaps grant similar short term buffs. In this way you could "herd your flock" when it comes time for reupping your shields. Increasing spell level would lower the cooldown.
Perhaps no cooldown at lvl 6, but the buff which made allies immune to glyph damage would also prevent them from being targeted by this spell.

AP cost would be no lower than 3, but 4 or 5 would be better to curb abuse. No cooldown seems rather extreme.

My only problem with Gigas suggestions, barring shield bash, is that Int should maintain a monopoly on AoE damage.

Were Slick Glyph 1C and Dust Storm no AoE I would support these fully.

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We need to consider that Fecas are already very powerful, and we're treading on thin ice, between what is powerful, and what is overpowered.

Should feca's shields merge, then surely the cooldown should be increased, or the spell should cost 8AP. I liked the system from a while back now, where the shield strengths were determined by what the stats of the Feca. For example Intelligence Fecas would defend well vs. Intelligence characters, but not so well vs. other elements.

In PvP I found myself hitting about 50 per hit with con, (about 90 on a crit) vs. one of the PvP Fecas on my old server, and barely caused a scratch on her, since she used her sunshade staff to heal. I can understand that Fecas should decrease damage, since it is their class ability, but vs. this Feca I had a fight where I got 2 crit lethals, and even then I lost... I think one of the major issues is that when on cooldown, the Feca can cast spells such as Immunity or Spell Rebound until they shield again, leaving no opportunity to hit big.

- John

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JohnBroadley1|2012-04-27 15:25:03
I liked the system from a while back now, where the shield strengths were determined by what the stats of the Feca. For example Intelligence Fecas would defend well vs. Intelligence characters, but not so well vs. other elements.
Pardon me if I'm incorrect, but if I recall, all of the shields were based around intelligence, but also gained a but more of a buff depending on what points you had put in (For example, if you had some points in strength, your earth armour would get extra damage reduction)

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Tropical-Ace|2012-04-27 23:13:32
JohnBroadley1|2012-04-27 15:25:03
I liked the system from a while back now, where the shield strengths were determined by what the stats of the Feca. For example Intelligence Fecas would defend well vs. Intelligence characters, but not so well vs. other elements.
Pardon me if I'm incorrect, but if I recall, all of the shields were based around intelligence, but also gained a but more of a buff depending on what points you had put in (For example, if you had some points in strength, your earth armour would get extra damage reduction)

Base Value * (1+ (int/200 + Relevant Elemental Stats/200), so yes, you would be correct.
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Muniamx|2012-04-27 23:23:10
Tropical-Ace|2012-04-27 23:13:32
JohnBroadley1|2012-04-27 15:25:03
I liked the system from a while back now, where the shield strengths were determined by what the stats of the Feca. For example Intelligence Fecas would defend well vs. Intelligence characters, but not so well vs. other elements.
Pardon me if I'm incorrect, but if I recall, all of the shields were based around intelligence, but also gained a but more of a buff depending on what points you had put in (For example, if you had some points in strength, your earth armour would get extra damage reduction)

Base Value * (1+ (int/200 + Relevant Elemental Stats/200), so yes, you would be correct.

Unless the Relevant Elemental Stat were higher than Intelligence, in which case it was
Base Value * (1+ (Relevant Stat/100))
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Entirely correct, I somehow forgot about that portion.

Also, the armor cost would have to evidently be increased. 2 AP wouldn't be remotely fair for such an increase. It couldn't be more than 6, though, due to the acquisition level and the low level employing it, as well as the Ankama's will to avoid having spell cost scale off by level.

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I'm sorry to interrupt but is Feca going to be changed soon?

I was considering making a Feca but now that I see this thread..
don't want to level certain spells / build my character only to found out it was nerfed/buffed.

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There was no specific timeframe given to the feca changes. I guess it's just one of the things of the "things to do at some point" list for the devs, we won't know they decided to do them until a few weeks before when they put the changes on the test server.

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I would say 4 AP would be a very comfortable AP cost for the combined armor.

Also, Ankama has been pretty good about giving spell resets whenever any major changes are made, so I don't think you'd have to worry about leveling spells at all.

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Sljm|2012-04-28 14:44:11
I would say 4 AP would be a very comfortable AP cost for the combined armor.

Also, Ankama has been pretty good about giving spell resets whenever any major changes are made, so I don't think you'd have to worry about leveling spells at all.
This feels like a proper AP cost to me.
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The problem I have with 4 AP is that a feca, at that point, can easily teleport and shield a teammate from all elements, when that was only partially possible with split shielding. I can see this being rather frustrating from the point of view of a team that took the time and AP to separate the team, especially with the new maps that try to prevent buffs from being thrown up on the first turn. I propose an AP cost of 6: so a 10 AP feca can pull off such combo of teleport+shields, but not without taking +AP equipment and sacrificing some characteristic points, and the low level characters with only 6 base AP aren't restricted from using one of the most fundamental feca spells.

Sorry for such digression, I feel like I must return to the original topic at hand: the replacing spells.
The chance feca should definitely get a glyph, as well as the strength. I like the muddy glyph idea, and for the chance feca I suggest a chance glyph about the size of a low level glyph of blindness, that deals low chance damage and inflicts -100% damage to the target (to stay in line with cloudy attack's -chance). As for the last spell, maybe a support glyph, when allies/enemies stand on it, they receive various buffs.

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Maybe 5 AP?

In higher levels, most characters of any class can easily get 10 AP, so the Tele/shield combo isn't a problem at these levels. In middling or low levels, a 5 AP cost would require 9 AP, which tends to happen sometime after 100 for most people.

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4AP would be fine for lvl 6.

5 or 6 AP seems unfair for lower levels however.

That is spending your first turn on nothing but shields AND every 5 turns thereafter. This is unreasonable. As it stands now in PvM you only really need 1-2 shields (2-4 AP) every 5 turns.

Compare this to Toad or Preventing Word...I understand it protects better...but Tele and Shields don't have similar cooldowns. If a Feca is using teleport only to shield the party they are still expending AP, another full turn more or less, on shielding alone. This is perfectly acceptable.

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Teleport and Shield only have a one turn differential, which also matchs up with Feca Shield (6, 5, and 6 respectively). It's not unrealistic that some off turns are protected via truce or Imm/SR, leading to a full 6 turns inbetween armors.

That said, someone commented that Feca Armour falls off drastically in PVM at later level. Would some sort of spell that breaks your own defense, but applies a significant defensive debuff (+x damage taken) to opponent around the target, while he loses his own Armour, be of some interest? Of course, there's some quirk to be taken care of, and a state similar to Corrupted that would've to be implemented to prevent having both armor and debuffing at once...
If you can't have defense, might as well bring some offense; Let's be realistic, sometime the best defense (in PVM) is killing the boss in a single turn <.<

Does it fits the Feca role, I'm not entirely sure, but it's wouldn't be a 100% tradeoff, so the feca would ultimately lose on that.

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