FR EN DE ES IT PT
Browse forums 
Ankama Trackers

Sacrier balancing

By Electricotter - MEMBER OF THE ZENITH - May 16, 2012, 17:15:44
DevTracker
Reactions 816
Score : 723

I know alot of you out there are not fan of 1vs1 pvp, But sacs are just TOO overpowered in 1vs1. Not to mention.... they are pvp kings, even in kolosium. Its not fair transport and cooperation are now 3 ap.... Sac with 10 could just coop, atract and punish. And punishment is one of the most dangerous spells in the game (Maybe after wrath, but i never see any problem with this spell). They can steal heal ALOT, especially on lvl 200. They have extreme map manipulation (I dont see how you could say sacs map manipulating is bad, thats just stupid to say). Flying sword 3 ap, Assault decent spell, Sacriers foot is now also a decent spell, but the reason that sacs * CC spamm* is not because their spells suck, its because buffing 1000 on each element + using a weapon is overpowered as f*ck, The only thing they need to do is to increase the spells a little much, and nerf the CC damage for sacs. Say max a sac can buff for his weapons is 400-500. and the rest of the1000 you can use for your spells/locking etc. If you want sacs to be able to use spells then CC shouldnt be so overpowered. the only way to make spells more usefull then weapons at melee range for sacs is to make the spells as strong or stronger then the CC... wich is insane. So thats why CC damage should be decreased for sacs.

1 -1
Reply
Score : 11110
dovusplaier|2012-07-08 11:43:42
I know alot of you out there are not fan of 1vs1 pvp, But sacs are just TOO overpowered in 1vs1. Not to mention.... they are pvp kings, even in kolosium. Its not fair transport and cooperation are now 3 ap.... Sac with 10 could just coop, atract and punish. And punishment is one of the most dangerous spells in the game (Maybe after wrath, but i never see any problem with this spell). They can steal heal ALOT, especially on lvl 200. They have extreme map manipulation (I dont see how you could say sacs map manipulating is bad, thats just stupid to say). Flying sword 3 ap, Assault decent spell, Sacriers foot is now also a decent spell, but the reason that sacs * CC spamm* is not because their spells suck, its because buffing 1000 on each element + using a weapon is overpowered as f*ck, The only thing they need to do is to increase the spells a little much, and nerf the CC damage for sacs. Say max a sac can buff for his weapons is 400-500. and the rest of the1000 you can use for your spells/locking etc. If you want sacs to be able to use spells then CC shouldnt be so overpowered. the only way to make spells more usefull then weapons at melee range for sacs is to make the spells as strong or stronger then the CC... wich is insane. So thats why CC damage should be decreased for sacs.

What we want is secondary effects for spells so they have an utility.
0 0
Reply
Score : 244
dovusplaier|2012-07-08 11:43:42
I know alot of you out there are not fan of 1vs1 pvp, But sacs are just TOO overpowered in 1vs1. Not to mention.... they are pvp kings, even in kolosium. Its not fair transport and cooperation are now 3 ap.... Sac with 10 could just coop, atract and punish. And punishment is one of the most dangerous spells in the game (Maybe after wrath, but i never see any problem with this spell). They can steal heal ALOT, especially on lvl 200. They have extreme map manipulation (I dont see how you could say sacs map manipulating is bad, thats just stupid to say). Flying sword 3 ap, Assault decent spell, Sacriers foot is now also a decent spell, but the reason that sacs * CC spamm* is not because their spells suck, its because buffing 1000 on each element + using a weapon is overpowered as f*ck, The only thing they need to do is to increase the spells a little much, and nerf the CC damage for sacs. Say max a sac can buff for his weapons is 400-500. and the rest of the1000 you can use for your spells/locking etc. If you want sacs to be able to use spells then CC shouldnt be so overpowered. the only way to make spells more usefull then weapons at melee range for sacs is to make the spells as strong or stronger then the CC... wich is insane. So thats why CC damage should be decreased for sacs.
I'm not even going to go into the "sacs hit too much in cc after 5 turns of buffs" argument.

Scroll up and read the last 6 pages of posts.
0 0
Reply
Score : 723
axelbrazil|2012-07-08 19:37:21
dovusplaier|2012-07-08 11:43:42
I know alot of you out there are not fan of 1vs1 pvp, But sacs are just TOO overpowered in 1vs1. Not to mention.... they are pvp kings, even in kolosium. Its not fair transport and cooperation are now 3 ap.... Sac with 10 could just coop, atract and punish. And punishment is one of the most dangerous spells in the game (Maybe after wrath, but i never see any problem with this spell). They can steal heal ALOT, especially on lvl 200. They have extreme map manipulation (I dont see how you could say sacs map manipulating is bad, thats just stupid to say). Flying sword 3 ap, Assault decent spell, Sacriers foot is now also a decent spell, but the reason that sacs * CC spamm* is not because their spells suck, its because buffing 1000 on each element + using a weapon is overpowered as f*ck, The only thing they need to do is to increase the spells a little much, and nerf the CC damage for sacs. Say max a sac can buff for his weapons is 400-500. and the rest of the1000 you can use for your spells/locking etc. If you want sacs to be able to use spells then CC shouldnt be so overpowered. the only way to make spells more usefull then weapons at melee range for sacs is to make the spells as strong or stronger then the CC... wich is insane. So thats why CC damage should be decreased for sacs.
I'm not even going to go into the "sacs hit too much in cc after 5 turns of buffs" argument.

Scroll up and read the last 6 pages of posts.
After 5 turns?After 1 turn they already have 200 agi, enough to make a 1600 hit, They still are undestroyable if they have high resist, They heal more then you would deal them, and you wouldnt probably go CC with them wich would be your dead, so you deicide to go on range, wich isnt enough damage. Im not going to read all the posts, Im here to say what i think about it and what i know about it. Sacs need CC nerf, Period.
0 0
Reply
Score : 11110
dovusplaier|2012-07-10 17:41:20
axelbrazil|2012-07-08 19:37:21
dovusplaier|2012-07-08 11:43:42
I know alot of you out there are not fan of 1vs1 pvp, But sacs are just TOO overpowered in 1vs1. Not to mention.... they are pvp kings, even in kolosium. Its not fair transport and cooperation are now 3 ap.... Sac with 10 could just coop, atract and punish. And punishment is one of the most dangerous spells in the game (Maybe after wrath, but i never see any problem with this spell). They can steal heal ALOT, especially on lvl 200. They have extreme map manipulation (I dont see how you could say sacs map manipulating is bad, thats just stupid to say). Flying sword 3 ap, Assault decent spell, Sacriers foot is now also a decent spell, but the reason that sacs * CC spamm* is not because their spells suck, its because buffing 1000 on each element + using a weapon is overpowered as f*ck, The only thing they need to do is to increase the spells a little much, and nerf the CC damage for sacs. Say max a sac can buff for his weapons is 400-500. and the rest of the1000 you can use for your spells/locking etc. If you want sacs to be able to use spells then CC shouldnt be so overpowered. the only way to make spells more usefull then weapons at melee range for sacs is to make the spells as strong or stronger then the CC... wich is insane. So thats why CC damage should be decreased for sacs.
I'm not even going to go into the "sacs hit too much in cc after 5 turns of buffs" argument.

Scroll up and read the last 6 pages of posts.
After 5 turns?After 1 turn they already have 200 agi, enough to make a 1600 hit, They still are undestroyable if they have high resist, They heal more then you would deal them, and you wouldnt probably go CC with them wich would be your dead, so you deicide to go on range, wich isnt enough damage. Im not going to read all the posts, Im here to say what i think about it and what i know about it. Sacs need CC nerf, Period.
You know the game isn't balanced based on 1v1 pvp anymore, right?
0 0
Reply
Score : 137

3ap trans/coop was an inadvertent buff for sacs in 1v1, arguably equalling out the sacrifice positional changes since they can now coop/attract/punish with your bog-standard 10ap build. Guessing we'll have another nonsensical post ending in "'Nuff Said!" for the billionth time explaining how the new 3ap coop is actually a suicide button though.

1 -1
Reply
Score : 142

First of all, since coming back from a break of Dofus, I spent the last couple days reading this whole thread and there was plenty I wanted to say, but because there was so much I am sure I have forgotten some things.

Before I get into too much detail, I would like to say that even though Rael may accurately describe the plight of the end-game sacrier, that should only be seen as one portion of the player base and not the sacrier as a whole as sacrier balancing affects all who play the class and not just end-game players. I hope to give some insight on the 50-100 range, as I play a 88 chance Sacrier at the time of posting. It is also important to note that I focus on PvM and PvP only in rare occasions

Now then, I find the role of the sac in a team setting is primarily as a tank. I take the damage and keep it away from more fragile characters. My damage is not supposed to rival those of damage dealing classes over the course of the first five turns (after that depends on the length of the match and other variables), but rather to exceed them at turn four or five. My map manipulation, though it may not be the best, should be used to force the enemies to focus on me rather than support characters.

I am grateful for the buff towards sac's foot, as it makes it more viable to be a "Forced-only" build rather than relying on Nimble punishment. I am saddened that it is 2 casts per turn, but the AoE makes up for that if u use it well.

Assault is nice now with a small steal, though again, the 2 per turn saddens me.

The chance build focuses on AoE, and Fury technically has the best range (3 +AoE let's u hit an enemy 4 spaces away). This makes the build more of a situational type, where the more targets u can line up for 1 hit, the more useful it is. I like this aspect of it and I am glad it wasn't buffed (would make it OP in certain situations) or nerfed (so that it's still viable for 1v1). Considering how poweful it can be in optimum situations, the extra erosion for Nimble Punishment is reasonable.

Absorption is the best 1 target damage spell for the sacrier with steals as it's utility. This is very efficient as it is so I am glad this wasn't changed either.

Though I see the plight of evasion not being diagonally useful, it would be OP if it was. this makes your locking tactically important for it's use.

The 1 per target on swap does decrease tactical uses a lot, and somewhat counters the dodge malus on sacs foot if u are setting up to use it and then can't get back to lock the targets. Just one more thing to adapt too though.

I appreciate the lower AP on Transposition and Cooperation as it makes it more viable for use.

Punishment shouldn't be changed. It's fairly situational, yes, but it was never meant to be used repeatedly. If it does bad damage, then perhaps the sacrier should have used less punishments. It's just supposed to do great damage if you've planned accordingly, note that if you want to focus on better overall damage, you will probably make this less useful.

I can't say much about Bloodthirsty Madness, as I can't use it myself yet and it situation's where it could have been used, there was usually a healer character that supported well.

Flying sword is ok. It does ok damage and is summoned with low AP. I tend to use it to increase my map manipulation options, but it does help me with challenges sometimes too.

Life Transfer is mainly a support spell, a role the Sac really isn't too useful for unless that's what you were designing beforehand. It's great if the enemies have been focusing on your allies rather than you, but since the primary role of the sacrier is to take damage and keep it away from allies, it won't see much use by most.

Vital Punishment, though I agree useless at endgame right now, is invaluable at my level as well as below. Probably nifty for a bit longer too. The problem isn't that it's useless, but rather that Weapons are overpowered and it doesn't heal enough to make up for the weapon restriction. This probably won't be considered useful at all for endgame players until the Weapons are nerfed and it is reworked to heal a lot more for them.

Pain-shared is a great support spell for your damage dealing allies, I am grateful it is what it is.

Lastly, Sacrifice, the spell most affected by this update. I personally like how it is now. It was always meant to be used to save other team members from damage they couldn't handle and supports the tank build as it is now. Though it was used to help increase buffs, that was never meant to be the primary use. As for endgame players calling it the "Suicide Button", well, all I can say is "duh". At endgame people do ridiculous damage so it's to be expected. Plus anything that is referred to as a Sacrifice is not to be taken lightly. One of the main definitions for the word is "the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim" (Dictionary.com). In my opinion, it is meant as a way to save someone who is necessary or more important than your Sac for the remainder of the fight when they are about to die. If you are at end-game this usually means thinking "Should I keep fighting myself or Sacrifice my health so they can keep going". As for the removal of the swap feature, this is good. Sacrifice before allowed everyone and anyone the ability to switch around the affected. For the Sacrier, this meant tactically choosing targets for better map manipulation to get where they want to be. For the ally, this meant if u want to be somewhere and u have the range for it, hitting another sacrificed ally and then yourself will put you in that place. For the enemy, if you didn't want a specific player near you simply attack a different sacrificed target where u want to put them and then attack the player (or just attack the player) or u can simply attack someone else if u don't want the Sacrier near you.

Some things I wanted to point out: Comparing the amount of damage a Sacrier can do to what an Iop can do is irrelevant and useless. Iops are all about damage, it's what they do. It has also been acknowledged by most that weapons are overpowered yet some complain "why would I use this when I can just do such and such with a weapon. Stupid, lame, the sac is dead, etc." The proper solutions will not be seen right now as in order to even start fixing this, Weapons must be properly balanced. Though it may be true that those people are thinking about "now", it is important to be mindful of how it will affect the future.

There was so much that I wanted to say as I was reading this thread, but now I've forgotten some of them. I didn't say all that I wanted to sad. So:

Not Nuff' Said!

0 0
Reply
Score : 11110
FrozenChaosWeapon|2012-07-16 23:53:23
The 1 per target on swap does decrease tactical uses a lot, and somewhat counters the dodge malus on sacs foot if u are setting up to use it and then can't get back to lock the targets. Just one more thing to adapt too though.
We never said we can't adapt. We just said don't fix something which isn't broken.

I can't say much about Bloodthirsty Madness, as I can't use it myself yet and it situation's where it could have been used, there was usually a healer character that supported well.It's main use was to change with a sacrificed summon or player to switch for low ap. As it is now, it's only useful at lvl 6 for healing and it requires lvl 6 1/2 ch summons.

Life Transfer is mainly a support spell, a role the Sac really isn't too useful for unless that's what you were designing beforehand. It's great if the enemies have been focusing on your allies rather than you, but since the primary role of the sacrier is to take damage and keep it away from allies, it won't see much use by most.We pretty much agree here

Vital Punishment, though I agree useless at endgame right now, is invaluable at my level as well as below. Probably nifty for a bit longer too. The problem isn't that it's useless, but rather that Weapons are overpowered and it doesn't heal enough to make up for the weapon restriction. This probably won't be considered useful at all for endgame players until the Weapons are nerfed and it is reworked to heal a lot more for them.
It's not only useless in fights against players with weapons. It's completely useless in PvM too. They should just revamp it and make a spell which is useful for both low level and end game level players.

0 0
Reply
Score : 142
XehanordHeartless|2012-07-17 00:06:59
FrozenChaosWeapon|2012-07-16 23:53:23
The 1 per target on swap does decrease tactical uses a lot, and somewhat counters the dodge malus on sacs foot if u are setting up to use it and then can't get back to lock the targets. Just one more thing to adapt too though.
We never said we can't adapt. We just said don't fix something which isn't broken.

Vital Punishment, though I agree useless at endgame right now, is invaluable at my level as well as below. Probably nifty for a bit longer too. The problem isn't that it's useless, but rather that Weapons are overpowered and it doesn't heal enough to make up for the weapon restriction. This probably won't be considered useful at all for endgame players until the Weapons are nerfed and it is reworked to heal a lot more for them.
It's not only useless in fights against players with weapons. It's completely useless in PvM too. They should just revamp it and make a spell which is useful for both low level and end game level players.

For the first one, my apologies as it was a careless comment. I did not mean to say that you as well as others couldn't, just that we will have to.

My point exactly for the second one. I may have focused my response towards PvP in this one, but that is due to the only case I've seen being the video Rael, Whaddefeck and Yrg (srry if I misspelled any name) made. I can imagine how useless it is when enemies do massive damage, which is why I agree it is useless at end-game. I just wanted to express that it is still very useful for lower levels.
0 0
Reply
Score : 2477

I do miss, coins coins coins mp theft mp theft wand/bow swing coins (entire team is now EXACTLY where they need to be, shits got no mp, and i'm a safe 10-12 squares away)

I really really really really really really really REALLY liked the idea of vital punishment, giving +permenant max hp (infinite) as long as, it doesn't allow a sac to go above 100% of his maximum hp.
Every endgame dungeon i've done with a sac, he's either dead, or his top end hp is below 1k, by the time everything is dead, too many screenshots do i have of 5500-6000hp sacs with

0 0
Reply
Score : 4
whywouldigivemynametoamachine|2012-07-22 12:50:18


I really really really really really really really REALLY liked the idea of vital punishment, giving +permenant max hp (infinite) as long as, it doesn't allow a sac to go above 100% of his maximum hp.
Every endgame dungeon i've done with a sac, he's either dead, or his top end hp is below 1k, by the time everything is dead, too many screenshots do i have of 5500-6000hp sacs with
I completely agree here.
0 0
Reply
Score : 435

The erosion is a punishment for all your life-stealing, draging, transporting and doing 3k dmg every two rounds for only 4AP (with good eni by your side it can be made all the fight).
Iops are just some bunch of weak kids with their wrath garbage in this situation.
*Iop need 12 AP to move 12 cells and strike (unbeliveable buff of +12 damage if 1 more AP is left). Dont even think about hybrid Iop..
*Sacrier need 7AP to move 15 cells and strike. Then he is still having 5 ap - for daggers to do even more damage and swap to lock enemy against the wall (or evasion with 1 more AP). And all you need is VIT + %dmg equipment so you can choose which spells are you going to use.
Buffing yourself by loosing hp and then healing to the max over and over is fun only for you.
I ask then - who the hell is Iop? A scarecrow boss

*By "move" I mean use of MP and transport spell (Jump; Cooperation, Transposition, Attraction**)
**Attraction make the target move, I count it as transporting spell.

0 0
Reply
Score : 11110
Kanciarz|2012-08-24 13:54:00
The erosion is a punishment for all your life-stealing, draging, transporting and doing 3k dmg every two rounds for only 4AP (with good eni by your side it can be made all the fight).
Iops are just some bunch of weak kids with their wrath garbage in this situation.
Iop need 12 AP to move 12 cells and strike (unbeliveable buff of +12 damage if 1 more AP is left). Dont even think about hybrid Iop..
Sacrier need 7AP to move 15 cells and strike. Then he is still haveing 5 ap - for daggers to do even more damage and swap to lock enemy against the wall (or evasion with 1 more AP). And all you need is VIT + %dmg equipment so you can choose which spells are you going to use.
Buffing yourself by loosing hp and then healing to the max over and over is fun only for you.
I ask then - who the hell is Iop? A scarecrow boss?

You should really see a few good end game iops. Our life stealing spells are a joke when it comes to frigost 2 monsters.Your arguements sound like they come from a 1v1 PvP prospective to me. Attraction is lineal and Coop/Trans have heavy restrictions. Same with Punishment.
0 0
Reply
Score : 237
Kanciarz|2012-08-24 13:54:00
The erosion is a punishment for all your life-stealing, draging, transporting and doing 3k dmg every two rounds for only 4AP (with good eni by your side it can be made all the fight).
Iops are just some bunch of weak kids with their wrath garbage in this situation.
*Iop need 12 AP to move 12 cells and strike (unbeliveable buff of +12 damage if 1 more AP is left). Dont even think about hybrid Iop..
*Sacrier need 7AP to move 15 cells and strike. Then he is still having 5 ap - for daggers to do even more damage and swap to lock enemy against the wall (or evasion with 1 more AP). And all you need is VIT + %dmg equipment so you can choose which spells are you going to use.
Buffing yourself by loosing hp and then healing to the max over and over is fun only for you.
I ask then - who the hell is Iop? A scarecrow boss

*By "move" I mean use of MP and transport spell (Jump; Cooperation, Transposition, Attraction**)
**Attraction make the target move, I count it as transporting spell.
I hate it when people exaggerate things by ridiculous amounts. To do 3k damage with punishment (on a crit) a sac would need around 9k hp at the start of a fight, and that's only taking into account the normal 10% erosion in max hp from any attack made against the sac, if you add on erosion from any stat punishments or spell effects like eca's reflex then it would need a lot more hp.
0 0
Reply
Score : 723

I have to say that a class that has 1.5x more hp then other classes, Can heal/Buff Map manipulate and have the most dangerous spell in the game (punishment) Should have some consequenses, How is it fair that a sac can get 50% resist?I dont even talk about linear and CH resist, Its ridiciouluss, The sac is unbeatable in PvP when they have high resist, So my suggestion is to put the resist cap of sacs to 30% max of each element. So people can actually break throug 50% hp (wich is deadly) They heal more then the damage you would deal them, Especially in 1vs1 pvp they are just not kill able.

0 0
Reply
Score : 3955
dovusplaier|2012-08-29 04:13:19
I have to say that a class that has 1.5x more hp then other classes, Can heal/Buff Map manipulate and have the most dangerous spell in the game (punishment) Should have some consequenses, How is it fair that a sac can get 50% resist?I dont even talk about linear and CH resist, Its ridiciouluss, The sac is unbeatable in PvP when they have high resist, So my suggestion is to put the resist cap of sacs to 30% max of each element. So people can actually break throug 50% hp (wich is deadly) They heal more then the damage you would deal them, Especially in 1vs1 pvp they are just not kill able.
Sacs can heal? 0_o? Please explain. Punishment most dangerous spell in the game? I always thought it was wrath.... How fair is that a feca can reach 50% resist with a set that offers 0% base ignoring the linear resists and CH resists. The Feca is unbeatable in pvp when they have a weapon. My suggestion is to delete all fecas for a day and make them play as sacs to see how UP they are. If a sac out heals what you hit on them... Your doing it wrong.

Sacs are very useful in group pvp (8 vs 8 and 3 vs 3) And just one vs one pvp, but in pvm? Not so much. Why would I even bring a class thats goal is to lose hp to hit high? Why wouldnt I just bring a Iop that can CC + jump and not lose HP letting my osa and eni hit for even more damage. I dont need a sacs map manipulation because I have a sram + panda + enu + osa. If I mp the sram and go invisible I can put something where ever I want. Why take up a slot for a sac? Can they tank? No. A feca is FAR better tanker then saciers because regardless of the maximum hp of the feca reduces alot more damage then the sac has as an advantage in HP. My mask has 5k hp and Im not full vitality. 1.5X hp advantage? I think not. For god sakes a panda tanks better with boozer on. Sacs have evasion and sacrifice. Cool.... How about every time you cast a spell you have +5 erosion for 5 turns. Saciers are a great class in pvp because of all the other classes support abilities (osa, eni , feca) but take those classes away and a team of enus could K.O the sac. Sacs are like xelors right now. Broken in pvp in a way, and not that great in pvm.
0 0
Reply
Score : 723
greekg|2012-08-29 05:49:37
dovusplaier|2012-08-29 04:13:19
I have to say that a class that has 1.5x more hp then other classes, Can heal/Buff Map manipulate and have the most dangerous spell in the game (punishment) Should have some consequenses, How is it fair that a sac can get 50% resist?I dont even talk about linear and CH resist, Its ridiciouluss, The sac is unbeatable in PvP when they have high resist, So my suggestion is to put the resist cap of sacs to 30% max of each element. So people can actually break throug 50% hp (wich is deadly) They heal more then the damage you would deal them, Especially in 1vs1 pvp they are just not kill able.
Sacs can heal? 0_o? Please explain. Punishment most dangerous spell in the game? I always thought it was wrath.... How fair is that a feca can reach 50% resist with a set that offers 0% base ignoring the linear resists and CH resists. The Feca is unbeatable in pvp when they have a weapon. My suggestion is to delete all fecas for a day and make them play as sacs to see how UP they are. If a sac out heals what you hit on them... Your doing it wrong.

Sacs are very useful in group pvp (8 vs 8 and 3 vs 3) And just one vs one pvp, but in pvm? Not so much. Why would I even bring a class thats goal is to lose hp to hit high? Why wouldnt I just bring a Iop that can CC + jump and not lose HP letting my osa and eni hit for even more damage. I dont need a sacs map manipulation because I have a sram + panda + enu + osa. If I mp the sram and go invisible I can put something where ever I want. Why take up a slot for a sac? Can they tank? No. A feca is FAR better tanker then saciers because regardless of the maximum hp of the feca reduces alot more damage then the sac has as an advantage in HP. My mask has 5k hp and Im not full vitality. 1.5X hp advantage? I think not. For god sakes a panda tanks better with boozer on. Sacs have evasion and sacrifice. Cool.... How about every time you cast a spell you have +5 erosion for 5 turns. Saciers are a great class in pvp because of all the other classes support abilities (osa, eni , feca) but take those classes away and a team of enus could K.O the sac. Sacs are like xelors right now. Broken in pvp in a way, and not that great in pvm.
So. I thougt this was a Sac thread, not a Feca or Sram or Panda? Really, you think sacs are the only one suffering from erosion?

Like i said, a high resist sac (regardless for pvm or pvp)Protects itself from erosion, and they have more hp then any class so they will hold it longer then any char.

If the sac has 400 hp at the end of the fight that means his work is done, He took the pain and saved the team, thats what the sacs are about, now i tell you is Bloody thirsty madness a healing spell or am i just joking right now? The map manipulating of sacs is incredible, you can just choose 1 desired character out of a monster group, the sac can bring it without needing LoS for just 3 ap.

A panda is great in pvm, But just because a panda can throw people does that mean a sac has to do it?Just because a sram has fear does that mean sacs should get a pushback spell too?Just because feca,s can reduce, does that mean sacs should get imunity feca,s shield and armors too?Is that it, you want to make such a dangerous class even more OP? The sac is GREAT in pvm, If you die with it because you dont play strategically then dont go whine that they suck, you are doing it wrong.

Now on the other hand xelors ARE a broken class, Besides AP steal what can they do?Sure they have great map movement, and AP buffs, but thats about it, Sacs can save a entire team, they buff 200 of any state each turn, they also do the best damage in the game ( Dont tell me wrath is better in PvP then punishment, thats a joke).
0 0
Reply
Score : 3955
dovusplaier|2012-08-29 15:59:00
greekg|2012-08-29 05:49:37
dovusplaier|2012-08-29 04:13:19
I have to say that a class that has 1.5x more hp then other classes, Can heal/Buff Map manipulate and have the most dangerous spell in the game (punishment) Should have some consequenses, How is it fair that a sac can get 50% resist?I dont even talk about linear and CH resist, Its ridiciouluss, The sac is unbeatable in PvP when they have high resist, So my suggestion is to put the resist cap of sacs to 30% max of each element. So people can actually break throug 50% hp (wich is deadly) They heal more then the damage you would deal them, Especially in 1vs1 pvp they are just not kill able.
Sacs can heal? 0_o? Please explain. Punishment most dangerous spell in the game? I always thought it was wrath.... How fair is that a feca can reach 50% resist with a set that offers 0% base ignoring the linear resists and CH resists. The Feca is unbeatable in pvp when they have a weapon. My suggestion is to delete all fecas for a day and make them play as sacs to see how UP they are. If a sac out heals what you hit on them... Your doing it wrong.

Sacs are very useful in group pvp (8 vs 8 and 3 vs 3) And just one vs one pvp, but in pvm? Not so much. Why would I even bring a class thats goal is to lose hp to hit high? Why wouldnt I just bring a Iop that can CC + jump and not lose HP letting my osa and eni hit for even more damage. I dont need a sacs map manipulation because I have a sram + panda + enu + osa. If I mp the sram and go invisible I can put something where ever I want. Why take up a slot for a sac? Can they tank? No. A feca is FAR better tanker then saciers because regardless of the maximum hp of the feca reduces alot more damage then the sac has as an advantage in HP. My mask has 5k hp and Im not full vitality. 1.5X hp advantage? I think not. For god sakes a panda tanks better with boozer on. Sacs have evasion and sacrifice. Cool.... How about every time you cast a spell you have +5 erosion for 5 turns. Saciers are a great class in pvp because of all the other classes support abilities (osa, eni , feca) but take those classes away and a team of enus could K.O the sac. Sacs are like xelors right now. Broken in pvp in a way, and not that great in pvm.
So. I thougt this was a Sac thread, not a Feca or Sram or Panda? Really, you think sacs are the only one suffering from erosion?

Like i said, a high resist sac (regardless for pvm or pvp)Protects itself from erosion, and they have more hp then any class so they will hold it longer then any char.

If the sac has 400 hp at the end of the fight that means his work is done, He took the pain and saved the team, thats what the sacs are about, now i tell you is Bloody thirsty madness a healing spell or am i just joking right now? The map manipulating of sacs is incredible, you can just choose 1 desired character out of a monster group, the sac can bring it without needing LoS for just 3 ap.

A panda is great in pvm, But just because a panda can throw people does that mean a sac has to do it?Just because a sram has fear does that mean sacs should get a pushback spell too?Just because feca,s can reduce, does that mean sacs should get imunity feca,s shield and armors too?Is that it, you want to make such a dangerous class even more OP? The sac is GREAT in pvm, If you die with it because you dont play strategically then dont go whine that they suck, you are doing it wrong.

Now on the other hand xelors ARE a broken class, Besides AP steal what can they do?Sure they have great map movement, and AP buffs, but thats about it, Sacs can save a entire team, they buff 200 of any state each turn, they also do the best damage in the game ( Dont tell me wrath is better in PvP then punishment, thats a joke).
Thats not the point. The point was that why would I bring a sacier when I can bring other classes that do there job better then them and they bring other abilities too? I dont die in pvm with a sacier because I dropped mine a while ago just being such a lame class now.
0 0
Reply
Score : 237
dovusplaier|2012-08-29 15:59:00
greekg|2012-08-29 05:49:37

If the sac has 400 hp at the end of the fight that means his work is done, He took the pain and saved the team, thats what the sacs are about, now i tell you is Bloody thirsty madness a healing spell or am i just joking right now? The map manipulating of sacs is incredible, you can just choose 1 desired character out of a monster group, the sac can bring it without needing LoS for just 3 ap.

A panda is great in pvm, But just because a panda can throw people does that mean a sac has to do it?Just because a sram has fear does that mean sacs should get a pushback spell too?Just because feca,s can reduce, does that mean sacs should get imunity feca,s shield and armors too?Is that it, you want to make such a dangerous class even more OP? The sac is GREAT in pvm, If you die with it because you dont play strategically then dont go whine that they suck, you are doing it wrong.

Now on the other hand xelors ARE a broken class, Besides AP steal what can they do?Sure they have great map movement, and AP buffs, but thats about it, Sacs can save a entire team, they buff 200 of any state each turn, they also do the best damage in the game ( Dont tell me wrath is better in PvP then punishment, thats a joke).

Yes BTM is a healing spell but it can only be used at the cost of hp to allies (players or summons), it's affected by the targets resistances so in general using it 4 times in a turn will heal a sac around 300hp. When most other classes can hit 2-3k damage per turn being able to heal 300hp for 4 ap is pretty crap.

Yes for 3 ap I can target a monster and bring it right into the middle of my team to focus on it but there is a consequence, my sac is now in the middle of a group of monsters and if it's a group of frig 2 monsters then I'm going to die very quickly.

Wrath and punishment are both great pvp spells but both are very situational, I've seen great players avoid being hit by either of these spells happy and I have also seen not so great players walk straight into them :blink: 
0 0
Reply
Score : 723
anna-c|2012-08-30 09:44:40
dovusplaier|2012-08-29 15:59:00
greekg|2012-08-29 05:49:37

If the sac has 400 hp at the end of the fight that means his work is done, He took the pain and saved the team, thats what the sacs are about, now i tell you is Bloody thirsty madness a healing spell or am i just joking right now? The map manipulating of sacs is incredible, you can just choose 1 desired character out of a monster group, the sac can bring it without needing LoS for just 3 ap.

A panda is great in pvm, But just because a panda can throw people does that mean a sac has to do it?Just because a sram has fear does that mean sacs should get a pushback spell too?Just because feca,s can reduce, does that mean sacs should get imunity feca,s shield and armors too?Is that it, you want to make such a dangerous class even more OP? The sac is GREAT in pvm, If you die with it because you dont play strategically then dont go whine that they suck, you are doing it wrong.

Now on the other hand xelors ARE a broken class, Besides AP steal what can they do?Sure they have great map movement, and AP buffs, but thats about it, Sacs can save a entire team, they buff 200 of any state each turn, they also do the best damage in the game ( Dont tell me wrath is better in PvP then punishment, thats a joke).

Yes BTM is a healing spell but it can only be used at the cost of hp to allies (players or summons), it's affected by the targets resistances so in general using it 4 times in a turn will heal a sac around 300hp. When most other classes can hit 2-3k damage per turn being able to heal 300hp for 4 ap is pretty crap.

Yes for 3 ap I can target a monster and bring it right into the middle of my team to focus on it but there is a consequence, my sac is now in the middle of a group of monsters and if it's a group of frig 2 monsters then I'm going to die very quickly.

Wrath and punishment are both great pvp spells but both are very situational, I've seen great players avoid being hit by either of these spells happy and I have also seen not so great players walk straight into them :blink:
Well, you can say that other classes hit 3kk(wich in that case you will need 0% resist at all, and the char needs to have damage buffs and weapon skill to get too that amount), then they sure can, but lets be realistic, chars can only do huge amouns of damage at CC, with spells they nearly do 1kk (Only a cra with full buffed atonement arrow maybe) So the healing IS very effective, especially when the sac has high resist, and holds his HP around 50% to K.O players.

Now when a sac brings a target for the group does not mean the sac dies, in PvM you can just give the sac enough reduce buffs (Maybe even rebound or imunity with a feca) And sacs have high hp anyway and like i said if you have good resist on sacs they wont die, Resist is most effective on sacs because they have so much hp. (Thats why i think its too OP in pvp)

Now we all know that sacs dont use spells to do damage (Except punishment) But they use enough spells, Transport,Coop,Swap,(Any punishment state) Punishment, BTM, Evasion, Atraction (And for pvp all the summons) So sacs do hav usefull spells, just not more effective then a OP otomai sword or sunshade, The reason why?Because sacs are a low ranged char, and they should stay this way, if you buff the spells to the level of weapon damage (Punishment already breaks this by far) Then OP class becomes the God class.

Assault and sacriers foot are good spells, the only problem of Assault is that it has a cast limit of 2 times, so when you get in weakend state in PvM they have little AP to use for damage, other then that, spells should not get buffed drasticly, i rather see the sacs resist limit get to 30%, or the max you can buff for a weapon gets too 400-500 of each punishment to be able to compare spells with weapons.
0 0
Reply
Respond to this thread