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Sacrier balancing

By Electricotter - MEMBER OF THE ZENITH - May 16, 2012, 17:15:44
DevTracker
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Score : 6161
GrimTalon|2015-09-14 19:55:38
That is true, however i feel like the erosion cost is simply too high for sacriers, especially in endgame content . If they could merge the punishments into one, I think the erosion problem would be solved though.

Or they could change the way life steal works for sacriers (maybe replace vital punishment with a spell that puts sacriers into a life steal state with x reduced damage for y turns) and then reduce the total amount of erosion the sacrier takes.
That won't happen. It would be too easy to be omni. Plus, in this thread, they already said it won't happen.

The best way I can think of doing that is giving 10-15% erosion to all punishments, but making the erosion non stackable. Or just rebuild the class from ground up. Second option is probably better.

GrimTalon|2015-09-14 22:17:39
I think that merging the punishments might still work though, just look at the feca shields. instead of 4 spells, it became one that just reduces damage by an amount.

For sacrier i think it could work the same, the punishments become a single spell , but maybe less stat boost to offset the loss of self-inflicted erosion (im not sure if that might cause more problems due to slower start speed and some classes having erosion spells available to them anyway)

i don't understand the difference between it giving power and stats though, besides the lock and dodge bonus from agi (course pods and prospecting don't matter in-fights), unless the heal bonus from intel helps more than i think?
Feca shields were defensive spells, and there were spells that reduced damage from any source. Sacriers would get free +1000 power (and lifesteal), +100 lock/dodge, access to strong neutral weapons or healing through weapons. There is a big difference between that and shields.

Yes, they could lower stats, but punishments are supposed to compensate for not having those stats to begin with, and having to wait to earn them. This is a hard situation because the punishment system for sacriers is basically broken; either too weak or too strong. Hence why I think they need to do the class from ground up; I don't think punishments will stay as they are.

@Nerd-tease: monsters applying erosion is not a class issue. The monsters should change, not the class. As for classes that do that, all of them are heavy close combat damage dealers, meaning they have to be up close with the sacrier. Which would probably spell their doom. Also, I'm saying why it is there, I'm not necessarily agreeing with it. It should have been a band-aid fix: something that would be there for a little while, but ultimately taken out. Once the revamp hits, they should take it out.
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Score : 226

Removing the erosion penalty will help, and it makes sense, as it no longer fits into the game's reality. But it must be clear that, alone, this won't solve Sacriers' survivability problem.

Merging the punishment spells would accomplish nothing for the current situation of the class.

Also, I do not agree with the idea that Sacriers should have their core mechanics changed. They way it works may be difficult to fine tune, but I don’t see that as enough reason to basically kill the class and replace it, and honestly I strongly doubt Ankama would do that.

The class has some very situational (to say the least) spells that need to go… but most of the other ones just need little tweaks to become interesting again, like some examples I gave in a recent post. I believe these tweaks coupled with one or two new spells (replacing the useless ones) which would hopefully enhance class survivability, should be enough to make Sacriers interesting and viable in a team again.

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Score : 2736

its knda laughable when a sac get one-shotted. i mean sure having the best life steal of the game makes u immortal but having more than 40% erosion is waay too much

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Score : 294

Can't expect to have high durability after casting all the punishments on yourself and wondering why you have 40%erosion...

<_<

I think this wouldn't happen if only 1-2 punishments were used at the time.

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Score : 2987

ive never known omni sacs that use all punishments to be a durable class, more a berserker sac, with insane damage, especially with things such as blord weapons and fugitive hammer (if you can meet those insane requirements on a sac..)

i agree with the statement that the role shouldn't change. they should remain a tank/map manipulation character. but there is so much redundancy going on, and to be completely honest the softcaps they were given are a real issue. i think they should have normal softcaps like the rest of the classes and their spells be what makes them more durable... can see sacriers being the only class with a direct gravity spell, which would be great, esp in pvm, if monsters cares about gravity... but that's a different story

also spells such as ecaflip's All or Nothing and the new Masqueraide really feels like it suits the Sacrier much better, and would like to see things along those lines.

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Score : 108

I overall agree that the Sacrier should be revamped, but I won't comment on that since I never used him myself.

It's mainly a single spell that I'll comment on: Cooperation. It positions an opponent with enormous precision, as the Sacrier can simply walk onto a specific spell and then use it. You can have up to 16 range and no line of sight, so there is practically no way for opponents to avoid it unless you manage to hit the Sacrier with gravity. Afterwards, you only need a glass cannon like an Iop, a Rogue or a Sram to finish the freshly stolen opponent off. This whole process is banal and does barely require strategy.

I'd either reduce the range by a half or require line of sight to balance the spell.

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Score : 6161

You're forgetting that the sacrier would be in the middle of the enemies and prone to being killed as well. Xelors can do the same as well, without the risk (dial+paradox+punch = pulled enemy 17 cells closer, and you're still in the middle of your party), and eliotropes can also do it without risk(portal+odissey+neutral...I usually call that spell kidnapping for a reason).

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Score : 7

Hello guys,

How are you doing?

Since the Sacrier revamp is getting closer, I was bored and designed little bit of spell changes. These changes are not 100% perfect and still need to be worked on. I'm open for criticism.
The goal is that Sacrier have much more risk and difficulty in their kit, but have much more versatility, range and tankiness. This is mainly, because dungeons now the days often need much more range and stable, trusted tankiness on their side.
I still thought that the Sacrier still had a lot of good spells, though, so I've replaced not all of the spells.
The class spell is still missing (I'm not sure whether Pain Shared is good, though it has a clear identity, which I dig into later).
Further details will come later.

Thank you in advance for reading! I hope maybe some ideas may be used in the future revamp

Long cooldown = 6+ turn cooldown at rank 6
Mediocre cooldown = 3 - 6 turn cooldown at rank 6
Low cooldown = 2 or less turn cooldown at rank 6.
1/turn = 1 cast per turn
1/turn/target = 1 cast per turn per target
2/turn = 2 casts per turn
2/turn/target = 2 casts per turn per target

Level 1 spells:

Punishment: Activates Bloody state and Punishment state. Long cooldown.

Bloody state: The more hp you take from your enemies with certain spells, the higher this state becomes. This state can be used for bonus effects on damage spells or more healing on utility spells. The Sacrier will gain 1 Bloody stack per spell (so not per target hit).

Punishment state: The lower your hp becomes, the more damage you will deal. The higher your hp becomes, the less damage you will deal.

Consume: The Sacrier consumes all its punishment stacks to gain health back. Long cooldown.

Life transfer: Steals hp in water damage at decent range and increases it’s bloody stacks. 3/turn 2/turn/target

Level 3 spell:

Transfusing Fear: Deals earth damage at decent range in AoE and increases bloody stacks. The Sacrier passes damage down to others hit by Transfusing Fear when the Sacrier gets hit. 3/turn 2/turn/target

Level 6 spell:

Swap: Swaps with the target on close combat range. 3/turn 1/turn/target

Level 9 spell:

Absorption: Deals fire damage at decent range and increases bloody stacks. Also increases the Sacrier’s healing on other allies. 3/turn 2/turn/target

Level 13 spell:

Hunter: Deals air damage at decent range and increases bloody stacks. Everytime the target receives damage, the target suffers fixed bonus damage. 3/turn 2/turn/target

Level 17 spell:

Attraction: Pulls the target to the Sacrier. 1/turn/target

Level 21 spell:

Bulky: For one turn, the Sacrier absorbs all close combat damage, but takes double damage from ranged attacks. Long cooldown.

Level 26 spell:

Evasion: Dodges all long range attacks, but takes double damage from close combat ranged attacks. Long cooldown.

Level 31 spell:

Sacrifice: Transfers damage from the ally to the Sacrier. Mediocre cooldown.

Level 36 spell:

Cooperation: Swaps with the target on long range. (Just any target. No more enemy / ally swap). Mediocre cooldown

Level 42 spell:

Assault: Strikes the target three times to steal HP through air damage in close combat range. If the Sacrier has any bloody states, it will receive additional damage, which heals the Sacrier. Low cooldown.

Level 48 spell:

Bloodthirsty Madness: Steals HP through fire damage on close combat range and gives the target a state to heal everytime allies hit the target. If the Sacrier has any Bloody states, the target state's healing is increased. Low cooldown.

Level 54 spell:

Sacriers Foot: Steals HP through earth damage in an AoE (compared to Hammer weapon). If the Sacrier has any Bloody stacks, it will hit another time at the same spot, but with a slightly bigger AoE. 1/turn
Note: This spell needs to hit a target in close combat in order to make it work. Hitting a target that gets hit by the hitbox, without another enemy standing in close combat range will take no direct damage.

Level 60 spell:

Dissolution: Steals HP by dealing water damage around the Sacrier. If the Sacrier has any Bloody Stacks, the Sacrier will heal an additional fixed amount per target hit. Low cooldown.

Level 70 spell:

Adrenaline: Increases the dodge based on its hp. The lower the hp, the higher it gets. When there is an enemy next to the Sacrier, the lock is increases, instead of the dodge. 1 lock or dodge per 1% health missing. Mediocre cooldown.

Level 80 spell:

No Surrender: The Sacrier decreases it’s MP to -100, but turns extremely resistant for any attack. Long cooldown.

Level 90 spell:

Last Stand: Consumes all Bloody states to heal an ally.

Level 100 spell:

Berserker: Sacrifices all Punishment stacks to deal close combat damage. The higher the Punishment stacks, the higher the damage. If it kills the target, the Punishment stacks are refunded. Mediocre cooldown.

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Score : 13424

Revamp actively made the sacrier worse. I'm not going to bother repeating what has been said elsewhere with it, everything to have been said about the sacriers problems was said, and then ignored by the devs even in the sacrier round-table thread of the French forums. I'm just going to post video that shows how under-performing the sacrier truly is and let people see for themselves.

Click here

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Score : 1731

only problem for me is whenever they have conferences and what not ankama keeps saying yea for this revamp we want to listen to the community... bull. they never listen to us. result is mixed opinions and just basically largely disliked revamps.

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Score : 658

Can't understand all those people crying over that revamp. If you were main Sacrier and if you've already mastered that class and have been playing it for more than 8 years then you'd know the revamp is outstanding. I played it with all of my sets and different stat setups such as int/cha-agi/cha(both bow and hammer)-agi(both with shovel and and mantax)-int/cha/agi(atcham)-int/agi and cha. All of them were unique, strong and useful for different circumstances. I'd just suggest you all to stop crying, besides that if you don't like just quit. The funny thing is; some people are not even main Sacs and still keep writing stuff. Lame..

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Score : 2614

"The funny thing is; some people are not even main Sacs and still keep writing stuff."
Some people, sure, not that invalidates what they have to say. tongue

If you were a main Sacrier and had mastered the class, then you'd know the revamp was totally botched. (See how easy that is to say? It's totally a fact now.) Even more-so if you see how things went, or didn't rather, in the Table Ronde.
It's one thing for a class to be decent, another thing for it to be fun to play, or for it to just be different than before, and something else completely for it to be well-designed or fit the class. The revamp made radical changes, but did not appropriately address the very reason it was made to begin with - usefulness in endgame content. It gives us a class, that while you can find it fun (that's fine, that's subjective), is poorly designed and does not fit the class well. I can only hope that a re-revamp will occur, based on input people were given since beta started and it came to the live servers.

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Score : 13424
highwayevil|2016-12-11 13:34:45
Can't understand all those people crying over that revamp. If you were main Sacrier and if you've already mastered that class and have been playing it for more than 8 years then you'd know the revamp is outstanding. I played it with all of my sets and different stat setups such as int/cha-agi/cha(both bow and hammer)-agi(both with shovel and and mantax)-int/cha/agi(atcham)-int/agi and cha. All of them were unique, strong and useful for different circumstances. I'd just suggest you all to stop crying, besides that if you don't like just quit. The funny thing is; some people are not even main Sacs and still keep writing stuff. Lame..
It's funny you say this considering you have professed at the PvP map that you don't care about PvM.(I seem to remember watching you get absolutely wrecked by a PvM sacrier wielding a blord sword in a 1v1 though, so maybe you can't even really PvP with how badly he dismantled you.....) Sacriers will always be somewhat strong in PvP so long as they retain the ability to swap someone. And anyone and their mother can do damage with atcham sabres or some other weapon , so considering the only thing you have told me is you can swing a weapon still, I don't see any compelling reason to believe you over what the raw numbers and amount of testing I've done with other sacrier players would lead me to believe.

As far as the revamp goes, the sacrier is still useable right now. But the stated goals of the revamp were not met. The sacrier is still undesirable for endgame content. Any role the sacrier can fill, another class does better, and this right after a revamp. This is without mentioning all the new interactions like sacrier with eliotrope portals one shotting themselves when attacking through the portals, or with idols.

Do some endgame content and the failure of this revamp will be self evident.
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Score : 658

You seem too mad after getting kicked out of alliance but well this is just a game do not take it too serious. The other thing is i don't really remember i got "wrecked" by a "PvM" sacrier with "Blord sword" ? But i do remember that a lvl 177 iop "wrecked" you in a 1v1 Sinbad (i don't even know who you are btw, maybe just another wannabe? ) :'(
Anyway haters gonna hate i guess but the real thing is i do "some real endgame content" and this is how i considered the revamp is really useful for Sacriers especially for PvM. Think about intel sacriers and their current spells. Think about sacriers who still keep doing "endgame" content (such as new ones like Tal Kasha) . They are really (me included) happy with whatever is done. Even when they didn't like they wouldn't cry like you are doing. Sharing your opinion is alright but like this... i mean come on really.
The other thing is i do not really use my sacrier with just 1 set. To be able to learn whatever happened to sacriers after revamp i suggest you to get more sets for different circumstances (atleast few sets for PvP and 1-2 for PvM). Although i know that you can't afford i also suggest you to keep buying kamas like you were always doing as much as i've heard.. :/
Anyway cheers

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Score : 13424

"You seem too mad after getting kicked out of alliance but well this is just a game do not take it too serious. "
This is off topic, but you are misinformed on those events. Fedaykin left of our own volition after being unhappy with allaince leadership being paranoid to the point of saying they didnt trust our SiCs.

"But i do remember that a lvl 177 iop "wrecked" you in a 1v1 Sinbad (i don't even know who you are btw, maybe just another wannabe? ) :'( "
That's hilarious considering I don't partake in 1v1 PvP. Also, how would you know this while claiming you don't even know who I am. Baseless lies in an attempt to discredit someone.

"Anyway haters gonna hate i guess but the real thing is i do "some real endgame content" and this is how i considered the revamp is really useful for Sacriers especially for PvM. Think about intel sacriers and their current spells. Think about sacriers who still keep doing "endgame" content (such as new ones like Tal Kasha) . "

According to your character profile, the last achievement you unlocked was 8 days ago for exploring the forgotten city. You haven't cleared Tal Kasha with your sacrier(as this would show up after the exploration achievement), so bringing this up is a distraction at best.

"They are really (me included) happy with whatever is done. Even when they didn't like they wouldn't cry like you are doing. Sharing your opinion is alright but like this... i mean come on really."

If you are truly happy with it then enjoy. I have no personal interest in seeing sacriers become stronger. I don't play one and wouldn't be crying over it. What I find distasteful is how much of a failure the revamp was compared to its stated goals. If I come across as passionate because of it, it is because I enjoy the game enough to care about the state of it.

"The other thing is i do not really use my sacrier with just 1 set. To be able to learn whatever happened to sacriers after revamp i suggest you to get more sets for different circumstances (atleast few sets for PvP and 1-2 for PvM). "
If a class needs multiple sets to be viable something is wrong. That said, I actually do have multiple pieces to swap about as I want for further optimization, but that should be considered a luxury not a necessity.

"Although i know that you can't afford i also suggest you to keep buying kamas like you were always doing as much as i've heard.. :/ "
Thats funny, but considering I don't discuss anything of the sort with anyone as it isn't something I partake in, whatever you've heard is wrong.

highwayevil|2016-11-19 00:32:29
Rip Shingun 2007-2016


If the original thread on regarding the sacrier revamp, you seemed to think this killed your character, what changed that you no longer think this, or are you just coming into this thread to pick a fight?
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Hi,

It is my duty today to inform you that the chances that we'll see modifications done on the Sacrier this year are slim: the developers are focusing on the spell variants, with hopes to release them before the end of the year.

However, that also means that your observations (in this thread and others) about the Sacrier will be on their minds when devising the Sacrier spell variants. It is the hope of the developers that the new spells that will be proposed then will better fit the idea you have of what the class should be.

In closing, here's a sneak peak at the new look that the Robust Punishment will take as soon as Update 2.43 releases:

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Score : 117

look nice

pls also change design of 2 other punish

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