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Osamodas whipped into shape

By Electricotter - MEMBER OF THE ZENITH - May 27, 2012, 14:59:16
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Score : 4481
mightychicken|2013-11-03 05:23:59
@ vagabaka but if you noticed that at the end of the post I did suggest that summon share 90% of the osas stats at evo 3 hence its vita should be around 2700 if osa has 3k vita. for a 4k vita it would be 3.6k. That should be enough for the summon to survive any onslaught any mob can throw unless it is an instakill...even more with osas buffs. Also there can be attacks that would mark the target for the summon to hit the target from range but tbh a simpler way would be 2 range summons and 2 melee summons so certain builds would be more effective in frigost 3 than others which is what frigost 3 is all about tongue To top it off , the other builds whose summon using would be situational wouldn't be totally useless since I did suggest 3 attacks of each elements which has duel use as buffs on the summons. Those attacks are sufficient to save them through the ordeals.

Its not like osa wouldn't be able to buff but making osas buff summon only should be far better tbh and would be more fun to play. We are supposed to be summoners after all, not buffers tongue

moreover there should be state inducing buffs that should either put the summon in frightened of aggressive AI and all problems would be solved.

Btw also if osas are made summoners only its all the better since that would make space for a new class as well. A buffer class who can specialize in buffing with duel effects in the buffs (debuff for opponents and buffs for allies) and attacks which is based on DoTs and conditions. but that is another story ...and this is osa discussion.

again forgot to mention... no buff stacking pls tongue one buff should override the previous. That would make it even more interesting as to when osa wants the summon to tank and when to attack fiercely or when to disable.
Improving summons so they are durable in PvM is easy, but doing that while keeping them balanced in PvP is hard.
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Score : 320

I cringe everytime I see an Osa in kolo just buffing his teammates and not summoning anything at all.

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@vagabaka

yes and that is the main reason there should be a limitation on summon spamming, buff spamming and runner osas.

tbh what osas do now is the imbalance tongue not to mention there is hardly anything worthy of a summoner tongue just summoning occasional summon of a wyrm to ub and letting a crackler die on first turn while buffing the entire team all the time/attacking occasionally/healing is very unsummonerish and doesn't fit the description ankama uses to sell the osa class.

sadis these days summon more tbh tongue

the reason is that say i was 4 ap summoning a gobball for gravity/lock. i cant let it go at 600 hp. the iop im trying to lock would concentrate it once and itll die most probably. if not the second concentration would kill it. so i need to ap and toad it. leaving me with 2-4 ap. now in that 4 ap what i need to do is heal my allies mostly or attack. say if i attack...at the end of turn i did 400 + 30-40 dmg? with the fear that if the gobball misplaces then itll get blown or intimidated wasting my entire turn.

summons are unreliable and weak and are needed momentarily or situationally. that is not core gameplay of osa which it was supposed to be.

in anyway what i suggested was keeping both pvm/pvp in mind. 50% -70%-90% hp per evolution of a summon means that summon is to be focused earlier in order to stop it from getting stronger while osa needs to balance between defence and offence for summon choosing between buffs carefully since only one buff is to be placed on the summon. but still 50% of 3k hp is 1500 hp which is still good enough to save the summon. even more if its ranged. but if summon is ranged then opponents just need to kill osa fast since they wouldn't be afraid of getting locked. and in the case where they get locked by tank summon, they need to focus it and hence osa needs to defence it rather than increase its attack and hence decreasing his overall damage for tankablity and locking. tbh i see it more as summon oriented gameplay than now it is. what it is now is to throw barrage of summons at the opponent rather than having a proper choice.

and for the opponents itll mean to switch target rather than being overwhelmed by the sheer number of summons which truthfully is boring and dull gameplay. there was a fight i remember in which i cornered the iop so much that he couldnt move anywhere and neither jump. that is annoyance and not smart play.

p.s. remember there wont be 8-10 summons to overcome, just one. hence it would be easy to kill the osa for a smart opponent, but again a smart osa would have control over his opponent with that one summon only.

and a summon is not to be evolved the turn its summoned ...better would be to have 2 turns cd between every evolution which should be shared with the summons cooldown of 2 turns as well. so every time you can summon you can evolve. But you must choose one.

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Osas need a huge overhaul just like IOPs. We don't have but 1 good build and that is INT.... don't even say Vita is a Build because is just abusing what osas do best.... Is more of a play-stile than a build actually.

Why can't our summons spells do damage also... like the mino tofu toss spell that would be cool. Or just dome something to the freaking osas... do something new.

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Score : 29
iase|2013-11-08 22:04:23
Osas need a huge overhaul just like IOPs. We don't have but 1 good build and that is INT.... don't even say Vita is a Build because is just abusing what osas do best.... Is more of a play-stile than a build actually.

Why can't our summons spells do damage also... like the mino tofu toss spell that would be cool. Or just dome something to the freaking osas... do something new.

Exactly what i would like to point out.

we need a rebuild for osa. a huge overhaul. to the point of making the class from scratch. osas would have been good 2 years back but not anymore. not with new contents, new sets, new classes and specially new mechanics.

As it is, Osas are dull. Very dull.
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Score : 6103
lallallalallalala|2013-11-09 23:45:17
As it is, Osas are dull. Very dull.
Most classes are. Most classes need the overhaul. And the devs get more content and more reasons to do an overhaul out faster than they balance things out.
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If you find a class dull then don't play it, there are plenty of other classes you can use.

And dull or not, Osas are quite potent if you know how to use them properly. Their job is to make sure they function properly, not to make them the most interesting class in the world.

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Score : 3643
Revil-Nunor|2013-11-10 00:31:18
If you find a class dull then don't play it, there are plenty of other classes you can use.

And dull or not, Osas are quite potent if you know how to use them properly. Their job is to make sure they function properly, not to make them the most interesting class in the world.
Revil on your opinion what would you change about osas? You mention a lot that you don't use Summons, would you like to have more usefull spells than a broken AI Summon which adds very little usability to your game style if not none. Because I am told you are a Heavy hitting osa no idea how you made it but I would love to do the same.
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Not playing the class tbh is the most immature , irrelevant and useless solution ever tbh. Moreover this thread is about discussing what can be done to make it better, not about suggesting go play another character if you don't like it tongue

I like playing summoner classes. I enjoy being a summoner. That's what was promised in osas. If I needed a hard hitting character I would have gone iop. But i chose osa because I like summons do my bidding. Thats hardly the case though.

I would definitely love to play another character tongue If ankama makes another character as summoners. Wouldn't take me a moment to ditch my osa if that happens.

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Score : 27404
iase|2013-11-11 18:05:27
Revil-Nunor|2013-11-10 00:31:18
If you find a class dull then don't play it, there are plenty of other classes you can use.

And dull or not, Osas are quite potent if you know how to use them properly. Their job is to make sure they function properly, not to make them the most interesting class in the world.
Revil on your opinion what would you change about osas? You mention a lot that you don't use Summons, would you like to have more usefull spells than a broken AI Summon which adds very little usability to your game style if not none. Because I am told you are a Heavy hitting osa no idea how you made it but I would love to do the same.
Fewer summons with more power, you don't need to have 150 summons to be a powerful summoning class. The buffs is what makes Osas more effective summoners, I would rather see things like Cracklers and Gobbals or Bworks and Boars merged and the Osas given either more buffs for the summons or additional attacking spells. I would suggest custom control but Ankama has already said that won't happen, so I won't bother.

That would probably make summoning more viable in end game content, but would also give Osas more options in terms of elemental attacks or supporting. My personal playing style is more about brute force to overpower whatever I am up against, and for me summons will probably always just be a sleight-of-hand that I use to keep something busy until I can bash it to death, but I appreciate that not everyone shares that style. In that vein, I think something along the lines of what Gunner is fond of suggesting which would allow the Osa to nudge their summons to be more offensive or defensive depending on the situation would probably be more welcomed by the player base overall.

My set is usually around this, and allows for incredibly hard hits and very high healing.



@ What I assume is Dark-Xelvi. I have taken my Osa from PvP (appearing in Goultard for Solar) to the heights of PvM and I have seen everything that the Osa has and is capable of doing. So therefore, knowing that Osas will never be a shockingly dynamic class as they will always be slaved to a dumb Artificial Intelligence, I think it is more than reasonable to suggest that someone pick another class if they find Osas dull.
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Revil-Nunor|2013-11-12 03:22:29
iase|2013-11-11 18:05:27
Revil-Nunor|2013-11-10 00:31:18
If you find a class dull then don't play it, there are plenty of other classes you can use.

And dull or not, Osas are quite potent if you know how to use them properly. Their job is to make sure they function properly, not to make them the most interesting class in the world.
Revil on your opinion what would you change about osas? You mention a lot that you don't use Summons, would you like to have more usefull spells than a broken AI Summon which adds very little usability to your game style if not none. Because I am told you are a Heavy hitting osa no idea how you made it but I would love to do the same.
Fewer summons with more power, you don't need to have 150 summons to be a powerful summoning class. The buffs is what makes Osas more effective summoners, I would rather see things like Cracklers and Gobbals or Bworks and Boars merged and the Osas given either more buffs for the summons or additional attacking spells. I would suggest custom control but Ankama has already said that won't happen, so I won't bother.

That would probably make summoning more viable in end game content, but would also give Osas more options in terms of elemental attacks or supporting. My personal playing style is more about brute force to overpower whatever I am up against, and for me summons will probably always just be a sleight-of-hand that I use to keep something busy until I can bash it to death, but I appreciate that not everyone shares that style. In that vein, I think something along the lines of what Gunner is fond of suggesting which would allow the Osa to nudge their summons to be more offensive or defensive depending on the situation would probably be more welcomed by the player base overall.

My set is usually around this, and allows for incredibly hard hits and very high healing.



@ What I assume is Dark-Xelvi. I have taken my Osa from PvP (appearing in Goultard for Solar) to the heights of PvM and I have seen everything that the Osa has and is capable of doing. So therefore, knowing that Osas will never be a shockingly dynamic class as they will always be slaved to a dumb Artificial Intelligence, I think it is more than reasonable to suggest that someone pick another class if they find Osas dull.
AKA Well funded Osa... makes me jealous hahaha
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Score : 453

osa vit/res still OP in koth and kolo

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Score : 179

I think the osa class should be reinvented. I am already debating on quitting this game over the constant nerfing of my favorite class. Now we have global countdowns? That is the worst idea you could've thought of. Ideas like this are so idiotic that it literally is turning away paying customers. STOP NERFING US! WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO SUMMON, WE ARE SUMMONERS.

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Score : 4067
seuboi|2013-11-16 22:35:10
osa vit/res still OP in koth and kolo
okay, now show the benefits of being vit/resis in pvm content. we already established that they're annoying to take down in pvp since way back.

Osa-masterz|2013-11-18 03:25:53
I think the osa class should be reinvented. I am already debating on quitting this game over the constant nerfing of my favorite class. Now we have global countdowns? That is the worst idea you could've thought of. Ideas like this are so idiotic that it literally is turning away paying customers. STOP NERFING US! WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO SUMMON, WE ARE SUMMONERS.
Yep, and it's obviously a PvP nerf because of the uncommon occurrences of people fighting more than 1 osa in kolo and they whine and complain that they aren't smart enough to use the piss poor AI of 2 animals to their advantage, like summoning a chafer on it and staying out of the movement range.
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Hello All,

So from a recent topic on the osa's class forums "Osas Need To Change" a great suggestion came from one of the players. (sorry I don't recall her/his name, I am to lazy to find it). What this player basically said is to consolidate the summons into 4 groups. Something following up into the consolidation of feca shields into 2 major groups, melee range spell protection or range spell protection. Osa's could benefit from 4 major groups: Tank, Attacker, Support, Debuffer. This way we can consolidate all the summons and have free slots to add versatility to the osa class.

Now this part is me following up with that suggestion.
Another suggestion is to make summons non dependent of buffs, this way we can use our AP more effectively into the group. Now this being said some things need to be done to the summons. Of course only the attacker would be allowed to do damage so he would be the only one to benefit from damage buffs spells. I think this is important because if we want the summons to be non-dependent of buffs you can have 4 strong summons getting stronger. The tank summon can follow the lines of the pandawast, but he cant give any type of debuf or malus because he is only the tank, he can have a huge lock and maybe a attraction spell so he can have a chance to catch up to his enemies, I think this spell would need more casting range the same way pandawasta, you would not want to pull your enemy towards you being a osa. The support summon would basically take all the buffs you get from current summons and apply them to the other characters or summons, +%res, +damage, reflect. (needs more spells) and the last summons would be a Debuffer summon, this one can do all the added effects the summons do, agy steal, gravity, -ap and unbe. With these consolidations or by minimizing the osas summons to 4 major groups you avoid the summon osa spams and add more versatility to the osa. Give us more damage spells with more elements. We can get 2 more damage spells one for str and one for cha. Or wtv else comes to mind.

Sorry if my writing was off I am not the best at it. I just wanted to bring those suggestions here were it has more visibility.

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I also want to bring up the issue of the 3 elemental builds: Ankama has wanted at least 3 mono-elemental builds with diversive hybrids (some like Cra/Panda/Sac possess 4 from old days). They did try to squeeze in a Str build, but still that and the Chance build are obsolete compared to the far superior Int build. The Int build possesses a strong melee AoE, a decent ranged attack, a non-LoS, and healing. Far better than what Chance and Strength have to offer. Much like how the Foggernaut's 3 builds have pros and cons, and can make interesting synergy in hybrids, Osas could use that as well.

What role then should the Int build adapt to have strengths and weaknesses, and the Str and Cha builds as well? How will hybrid combinations be preferable and aversive to players? It could be time to think outside the box, how else can we use summons besides just summoning them? The current Osa-summon relationship seems to be "channeling", to repeatedly load ap-costly buffs to summons to survive and act in our steed. But people don't prefer that: people don't like to invest a lot of ap into fragile summons that do less damage and buffs while having undependable AI.

Some ideas for new builds that promote Osa-summon relationship: a build that works together with summons to assault an enemy, a build that takes advantage of a summon's death to punish the enemy, etc. All 3 builds by themselves should be also independent of summons (like Foggernaut) but have working with summons actually preferable. The goal is to not babysit summons and have them gain buff-independence, but at the same time not leave them to their own job and instead work with them.

Another idea which I believe could be of most urgency is let us modify the AI ourselves. I'm unsure if it's possible with how summon AI works now, but a module in the Bestiary could be added to allow players to set AI Rules for their summons (Osa, Sadi, Enu, etc). Examples: "Don't attack [monster] with [state]", or "Push [monster] so they have further mp distance from Osa if they are within [#] cells", or "Only push [monsters] when it won't deal knockback damage" or "When [Boss] is present in fight, follow rules of section [Boss rules]". It could help alleviate summons doing stupid things in Frigost, but none of the rules are direct controls and simply eliminate fatal errors the AI isn't built for on special occasions.

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Score : 559

The problem with Osa Summons is that the AP cost and cast difficulty does not justify the damage output for any situation besides 1v1 pvp.
Summon spam isn't a problem either, it's just the result of poor summons in the first place.
The problem with the Osa is that the summons don't actually have dedicated and dependable roles like the Sadi Summons do.

Right now, Tofu, Bwork, and Prespic really don't do much in any fight. Tofu is non-threatening in any fight, Bwork is outclassed by other summons for what it does, and the stupidity of close and long range attacks is obnoxious. It should be ranged AOE always, and higher damage... maybe just short of, or in excess of what a Wyrm does. Prespic needs some sort of boost to what it does. Honestly, I think it should focus more on reflecting damage and be a pet that pairs well with other pet, not Players.

If I were to change the Osa, I would do the following:

Boost the AP steal of the Crackler to 3 per hit.
Remove the Tofu and add another elemental damage spell.
Combine the 2 damage boost spells and add another elemental damage spell.
Give the Prespic a 50% damage reflection spell only castable on summons, a thorn Aura of 10 damage reflect with radius 5 aoe cast at the end of every turn, and long invisibility.
Remove the Bwork short range spell and boost the damage of it's long range AOE.... Making it the pure damage monster when buffs are focused on it.

The other alternative is to do what's been suggested many times and add an evolution to summons.
Honestly, the osa just get's outclassed by the Sadi in terms of effective summons atm.

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Score : 121
FoodLord|2014-03-19 00:21:58
I also want to bring up the issue of the 3 elemental builds: Ankama has wanted at least 3 mono-elemental builds with diversive hybrids (some like Cra/Panda/Sac possess 4 from old days). They did try to squeeze in a Str build, but still that and the Chance build are obsolete compared to the far superior Int build. The Int build possesses a strong melee AoE, a decent ranged attack, a non-LoS, and healing. Far better than what Chance and Strength have to offer. Much like how the Foggernaut's 3 builds have pros and cons, and can make interesting synergy in hybrids, Osas could use that as well.

What role then should the Int build adapt to have strengths and weaknesses, and the Str and Cha builds as well? How will hybrid combinations be preferable and aversive to players? It could be time to think outside the box, how else can we use summons besides just summoning them? The current Osa-summon relationship seems to be "channeling", to repeatedly load ap-costly buffs to summons to survive and act in our steed. But people don't prefer that: people don't like to invest a lot of ap into fragile summons that do less damage and buffs while having undependable AI.

Some ideas for new builds that promote Osa-summon relationship: a build that works together with summons to assault an enemy, a build that takes advantage of a summon's death to punish the enemy, etc. All 3 builds by themselves should be also independent of summons (like Foggernaut) but have working with summons actually preferable. The goal is to not babysit summons and have them gain buff-independence, but at the same time not leave them to their own job and instead work with them.

Another idea which I believe could be of most urgency is let us modify the AI ourselves. I'm unsure if it's possible with how summon AI works now, but a module in the Bestiary could be added to allow players to set AI Rules for their summons (Osa, Sadi, Enu, etc). Examples: "Don't attack [monster] with [state]", or "Push [monster] so they have further mp distance from Osa if they are within [#] cells", or "Only push [monsters] when it won't deal knockback damage" or "When [Boss] is present in fight, follow rules of section [Boss rules]". It could help alleviate summons doing stupid things in Frigost, but none of the rules are direct controls and simply eliminate fatal errors the AI isn't built for on special occasions.
Yes please. +1
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The sad thing is that the osa community has poured their heart and devotion to the class, playing it and mastering it. We are the best to give feedback but then again when THEY decide to do this expected osa change they will do whatever they think is best and I am sure that not even 1% of our suggestions would reach their ears. Lets not forget that in the 2014 road map there is not one single month where they are doing class spells review... So when the osas get a update I would just expect that we are turned to the shadow of the shadow of what we once were.

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The only thing that is put on the road map are updates that are set in stone. Ankama even said the road map doesn't cover everything that will be changed, so there is no reason to assume nothing else will be changed. All it means is that they don't feel like telling you about it yet, or it doesn't have a fixed date it will happen by.

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