FR EN DE ES IT PT
Browse forums 
Ankama Trackers

Sadida Balancing

By surgray - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - June 02, 2012, 22:50:32

Sadidas are a fairly old class. They aren't grey like the Enutrofs, but one thing they have in common - both have changed very little since the beginning of the Krosmoz.

They are the sleepy masters of nature - users of dolls and poisons to smother their enemies. From low level mob farmers to spellpoint hungry PvP beasts, most people consider them to be a balanced class even if some of their spells are slightly archaic.

The main trials most Sadidas face are questionable doll AI, linear spells, and indiscriminate abilities that will thwart your own team as readily as your enemies.

Maybe you feel that your Sadida is a little lethargic? That your power has taken a nap during the mid-levels or that you are too grown-up to play with dolls? Here is your chance to wake up the world to your point of view!

What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP?

Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team?

Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play?

Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so?

If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be?

0 0
Reply
Reactions 140
Score : 3959
What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP?

To mp steal and unbewitch.

Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team?

Mp steal and unbewitch

Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play?

Oh gosh no. all available elemental builds are equally viable at endgame and thats it.

Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so?

Poisins kill team mates, and lower team mates intelligence, so I dont think they can make good use of poisons, madoll + ultra powerful should have more mp (1-2)

If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be?

Less random aggressive brambles, similar to enus slaughtering shovel.
0 0
Reply
Score : 3543

"What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP? "

Steal MP, disrupt enemies with block/madoll/ultra powerful, heal with inflatables, unbewitch, deal moderate damage in a wide area

"Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team? "

All of the above

"Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play? "

No. I'd say that earth and chance are the only viable builds at mid level, intelligence just isn't worth investing in with the lack of hybrid sets and the indiscriminate damage of poisons

"Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so? "

Their poisons are not that great due to hurting team mates and summons (which have low health), however their summons are incredibly strong, too strong in some cases. My only complaint is that the MP from inflatable is just too much. Especially if you're a short range class, the summons are just nigh impossible to catch at lower levels.

"If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be? "

Limit the inflatable MP buff to 2 maximum. Still allow them to summon more inflatables, but stop them from having 20mp because a masq/osamodas/chance rogue/agi sram etc isn't able to catch their inflatables

0 0
Reply
Score : 447
What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP?

Support: healing, stealing mp, unbewitch...

Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team?

I think the only attractive of the class in a dungeon and/or pvp is the mp theft and insolent bramble.

Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play?

No.

Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so?

So-so. I mean, when you have a maddoll and the enemy is under para-poison effect, if the doll takes AP the poison gets less effective; there are visible problems with the doll's AI; the block is useless when cast by the sadida, but when sumoned by the sadi-dopple it shows its real "potential". PoW and EQ are jokes.

If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be?

It's dificult to choose only one thing to change, but I'd ask for a buff on the poisoning spells. Despite de agressive bramble being too random sometimes, the eatrh build is fine, unlike the other builds taht rely on two spells and a weapon... I think so.

For exemple, why the para-poison has CD of 3 turns if it's not accumulated? Why the PoW and EQ can't be totaly unbewitched by the caster? Some sadi spells don't match with each other. :/

Sorry for the poor english.
0 0
Reply
Score : 1145
What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP?

I expect a good level of manipulation in both PvM and PvP mainly due to MP Reduction Abilities while still being able to input moderate-high levels of damage.

Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team?

Distractions, MP Reducing Capabilities....Random Damage...that's really about it, can't think of much else.

Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play?

Nope. Been playing with my Sadida for 187 levels so far and I must say, Str-Build is really the only way to go :/ There is the int/cha build but let's be honest, the chances of that build being >>>> than str-build (as far as damage capabilities go) is slim to none and end-levels is about how the damage.

Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so?

Poisons? Not even close. The Sadida would have to be completely alone and surrounded by his/her opponents to make use of poisons (w/ the exception of paralyzing) and even then, you have to slowly kill yourself to make it happen (Insolent Bramble doesn't help as well as it used to). As for the dolls, their AI makes them very useless UNLESS in close combat which is sort of contradictory to their role. I vote for an upgrade in doll's AI & their abilities, and fix the poisons as well.

If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be?

A buff in their spells. Most of them are archaic and could stand for a little updating.

 
0 0
Reply
Score : 573
What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP?

Crowd control! My favorite aspect of my Sadida is my ability to steal MP and keep mobs or other players in one place. In mid to high end dungeons it's really helpful to keep me and the rest of the team from getting swarmed. With Soothing, Wild Grass, and the Ultra-Powerful I have no issues keeping things stationary. I expect this in both PvM and PvP when partied with other sadidas.

Unbewitchment. -4 duration effects can wipe out most buffs/defensive spells/debuffs. Lovely in PvM and more so in a PvP situation.

Decent damage. We're no Iops but we do pump out a nice bit of damage, and sometimes in a nice AoE, from range.

Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team?

Very much so. The MP stealing abilities are always welcomed in PvM and PvP. As I mentioned before, being able to keep the team from getting swarmed quickly is always welcome to make a dungeon run smooth.

In PvP I find that I am mostly working to keep the other team at bay or to help seperate the enemy from their team mates by keeping the others stuck across the map. Disracting or disabling their LoS with summons like Tree. Insolent is always something I use in PvP to elimenate the enemies defenses or to wipe all the buffs off a super charged enemy that's ready to pounce.

Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play?

My only experiences with Int/Chance/Hybrids of the two have been at endgame. In all my years of playing seeing a low to mid level Sadida that wasn't Strength based was a rare occurance. I feel this is partly due to how the spells are spread out.

Chance is slightly more viable at a lower level because you get Tear early on and for a reasonable AP cost right off the bat. However, it's linear which can be problamatic at low levels to get in range to use it. You don't get your next Chance spell until Lvl 80.

If you want to roll Int for your Sadida your only int spells until Lvl 70 are Para Poison and Earthquake. These two spells are not going to make for easy or quick leveling. Nor will you have a very good survival rate if these are your only damaging spells. You could throw Leek Pie in there, though not most new players will know about this spell or be able to afford it. Spamming Leek Pie until 70 and 80 doesn't sound like a very attractive option either.

I feel that Strength is much more viable through all levels because you get most of your damaging spells quite early on. While Int/Chance/Hybrid is viable at endgame it doesn't seem like the most enjoyable route to go in the early levels.

Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so?

I love dolls. Blocking, stealing MP/AP and buffing my MP and a nice little heal to boot are great to have. However, most dolls AI are pretty terrible. They usually don't last long because of this. In a group scenario I often find their AI leads them to get in the way of team mates and frustrate them. Though the recent change to the UP has made it so people are a lot more willing to see me throw him out than before.

Earthquake and Poisoned Wind are handy and just plain fun to use....in solo play. I never find myself able to use these when I'm grouping as the extra damage to the team, and in PW's case -Int, aren't welcomed.

If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be?

Kind of a toss up for me. I'd really like dolls to be a bit smarter though they're not entirely unusuable in their current state. So I'd have to go with buffing Paralysing Poison or even replacing the spell.

Para Poison is that spell I completely forget we even have because I never use it and I never see any other Sadida use it. I like the concept behind it. But the damage isn't worth it to warrent dropping one spell point into it. Especially not with the cast restriction it has.

3 AP to do negligable damage per 1 AP used by the enemy for 3 or 4 turns, with a cast limit of 2 turns for a Level 6 spell is rather unimpressive to me. I do like the concept behind it and I'm not looking for them to give Sadidas their own version of Lethal Blunder, but I do feel this spell is really not worth putting points into in its current state.
0 0
Reply
Score : 6477

I'd say there is some really solid feedback coming from our Sadida community.

Sadidas have some of the best AoE attacks in the game, but this is a detriment to their poisons.

In terms of Earthquake and Poisoned Wind, would sacrificing AoE be a potential solution to increasing group friendly play?

For any of you non Sadidas reading this thread, what makes you want a Sadi in your group? What makes you avoid them?
Is there a way to make them more group friendly?

For you Sadida players:
Sadidas also have a limited amount of supportive abilities, given their strengths in other areas are these adequate?
Are they unnecessary?
Do you want more?

0 0
Reply
Score : 447

About the poisons, i've got some sugestions:



OR this:



OR even this:



I know, I know. These sugestions are OP (or too BAD), but I think that would be a good thing the sadi poisons affect more than one opponent at once, since the other classes that have poisons can do that only one opponent per time.

Sadidas also have a limited amount of supportive abilities, given their strengths in other areas are these adequate? Are they unnecessary? Do you want more?

Our abilities are fine: take MP, AP, healing, etc, etc... The problem, I repeat, are the poisons! I want more of the poisons!
0 -1
Reply
Score : 1048
What do you expect from a Sadida in PvM? in PvP?

Area of effect damage with great mp reduction abilities.

Do you feel like Sadidas bring something to a team?

yes, currently the insolent bramble seems the biggest part of the sadida

Are the available elemental builds equally viable at all levels of play?

-

Can they make good use of dolls and poisons? Does anything oppose them doing so?

Poisons affect allies and the sadida him/herself which normally is the reason for not using them.
paralyzing poison does not fit the class, i feel alot of tactics work around removing your enemy's line of sight against you, with things like, the block, tree, and all the mp removal the class brings, the spell is ok, though regularly, you are the reason the enemy isn't using all their ap.

As for dolls, the madoll really needs to be less random, and perhaps more heath.
i suggest removing the current critical affect, and re making the summon either one of these two options:

Two spells, one for removing ap and one for removing mp, the madoll only removes mp if the target can get within two-three squares of the sadidia, otherwise will cast the ap removing spell.

The other option is to only allow the madoll to remove ap as the ultra powerfull already covers the roll of a mp removing doll.

If Sadidas were to only get a single change, what should it be?

An area of effect targetable poison would be nice as shown above. or some kind of poison applied to the map, and those standing on affected squares. I don't believe the sadida should be forced to be harmed with their own poisons.
0 0
Reply
Score : 1166

I agree completely on Maddoll, I don't think it's used for MP loss once a Sadida gets Ultra-Powerful, I think it's used for a chance of AP loss, since the UP does such a good job at MP loss. But, we know how bad AI can be, even after years of work, so I think Maddoll may as well just take AP instead of being able to do both AP and MP loss.

I think that the Maddoll's low hp would balance out having it deal AP loss every time (it could be destroyed with a low AP spell).

And before anyone says anything, I don't think it's fair to compare Osamodas summons with Sadida summons; the classes are very different in design. They both summon, but Sadidas are debuffers/controllers rather than summon-buffers. Their summons are meant to hinder opponents while the Sadida attacks from range, while Osamodas' summons can be his main source of damage.

0 0
Reply
Score : 573
Sadidas also have a limited amount of supportive abilities, given their strengths in other areas are these adequate?

In my years of playing I never felt we lacked in supportive abilities. Inflatables, while they can be easily picked off, can usually manage to survive long enough to give decent little heals to the entire group.

From what I've seen not many people like Tree of Life too much, given its resistances and awkward range. However I find it can be very helpful to myself and other teammates that need a little heal here or there during fights.

I think with our damage capabilities and our MP stealing abilities that our supportive abilities are fine as is.

In terms of Earthquake and Poisoned Wind, would sacrificing AoE be a potential solution to increasing group friendly play?


I would not be opposed to a lower AP cost spell variation of the two that I could cast multiple times per turn (on different targets of course, and limited to only stacking the poison once per target). However, I am more in favor of the examples that Vectruz provided on how to alter our poison spells. I think it would really help solve the issue of them only being useful in solo grinding.

I also agree about Madoll. Right now it will either steal AP on a non-crit or MP on a crit. This combined with the fact that it is really lacking in the HP department makes it really unreliable/useless almost. Sadida's have 3 MP stealing spells, I feel this is enough and that once you get the Ultra-Powerful the spell points are just a waste. Especially considering that the UP has a much better survival rate.
 
0 0
Reply
Score : 180

As they currently stand the poisons are rarely used in team PVM fights or team PVP fights. One can conclude then even without use of these spells (namely Earthquake and Poisoned wind) the Sadidas are reasonably balanced.

Regardless of a buff which may give the aoe/range of Manifold Bramble (or similar) I suspect the use of these spells would still be low, granted Poisoned wind would have its uses while pvping an intel based character, and the slight extra damage each turn would also be welcome considering the low ap cost.

However I feel that it would be better if the poisons were combined into one spell with a manifold/wild grass style range/aoe. This would be incredibly useful for both PVP (-int for the opposing team) and PVM as it wouldn't be damaging the entire team! Obviously the DEVS would put their years of experience into figuring out the new ap cost/damage to make this balanced.

Now for the empty spell slot I suggest a small range/small aoe spell which increases the hp of summons; much like the old ultra-powerful spell. This spell would cost only a small amount of AP and could considerably increase the survivability of the dolls, this would punish players who didn't kill The Madoll/block right away. The hp bonus would breath some life into these spells and would certainly increase their usefulness.

0 0
Reply
Score : 2737
silvaflash|2012-06-13 17:21:33
As they currently stand the poisons are rarely used in team PVM fights or team PVP fights. One can conclude then even without use of these spells (namely Earthquake and Poisoned wind) the Sadidas are reasonably balanced.

Regardless of a buff which may give the aoe/range of Manifold Bramble (or similar) I suspect the use of these spells would still be low, granted Poisoned wind would have its uses while pvping an intel based character, and the slight extra damage each turn would also be welcome considering the low ap cost.

However I feel that it would be better if the poisons were combined into one spell with a manifold/wild grass style range/aoe. This would be incredibly useful for both PVP (-int for the opposing team) and PVM as it wouldn't be damaging the entire team! Obviously the DEVS would put their years of experience into figuring out the new ap cost/damage to make this balanced.

Now for the empty spell slot I suggest a small range/small aoe spell which increases the hp of summons; much like the old ultra-powerful spell. This spell would cost only a small amount of AP and could considerably increase the survivability of the dolls, this would punish players who didn't kill The Madoll/block right away. The hp bonus would breath some life into these spells and would certainly increase their usefulness.
Possibly like a reverse poison/erosion? Instead of acting like natural defense, make it so its max Hp goes up by a percentage each turn for maybe 3 turns depending on the doll? (if that makes any sense)

Or do something completely different, its just an interesting concept biggrin

*edit* Like an Iops Vitality spell with a duration biggrin
0 0
Reply
Score : 3593

Suddenly got this idea for Earthquake And Poisoned Wind , a spell cast on a target (ally/enemy/self) that activates an AoE damage around it every time his/her/it's turn comes up , the AoE size could be the same as the one Burning Glyph has or bigger . The spell could maybe be modified to just hit enemies just like Mass Clumsiness does . In PvM this would be awesome with decent +damage set combined with mp stealing dolls and spells such as Wild Grass , while in group pvp (Kolo) might make the enemy go spread out so the others wont suffer damage . (Basically a walking burning glyph)

Also Agressive Brambles and Bramble could get a buff .. Agressive Hits too randomly making the max damage lower while raising the minimum damage could do the trick , Bramble could also get a small aoe such as some of the Osamodas' AoE buff spells (HeS,Bear Cry,Feline Movement) to compensate for Bramble's low damage and 2 casts per target (well in this case 2 casts per turn if this implemented).

0 0
Reply
Score : 447

I think that the vitality buff is a bit OP. We only need, asap, a remake on the poisons: make it AoE, with range and an AP cost of 3~4 and, may be, one use per turn, not stackable.

0 0
Reply
Score : 11337

Personally I'd like to see Paralyzing Poison given to the Maddoll as a mid range spell that does not require the use of AP to trigger and have the Maddoll given a "cautious" AI staying just within range to cast Poison each turn. Make Paralyzing Poison last 2 turn and allow the Maddoll to cast it every turn. It gives the Sadida a distraction which is in the class description and allows them to consolidate 2 somewhat useless spells into one. Gives the Sadida a better reason to use The Maddoll. The only thing I see is the need to make Poison damaging enough at level 6 to warrant the waste of AP to kill it.

I'd also like to see the Empty spot once used by Paralyzing Poison turned into an Agility based spell opening up at least some possibility for the Sadida to be an Agility based class. Possibly one with Erosion % or a Powerful debuff that goes in line with the Sadidas voodoo master like playstyle.

Definitely would like to see more emphasis put on their summoning abilities they have a slew of cute dolls that are for the most part not worth using in PvM. Sometimes they have their uses but when they don't they're not used at all.

0 0
Reply
Score : 2737
Vectruz|2012-06-22 05:59:46
I think that the vitality buff is a bit OP. We only need, asap, a remake on the poisons: make it AoE, with range and an AP cost of 3~4 and, may be, one use per turn, not stackable.
I just said that because the person i was replying to said to combine the poisons, and then to get a new spell.
0 0
Reply
Score : 171

I like the idea of combining PW and EQ (PosionQuake o.O) into one spell. With the AoE of wildgrass or M.Bramble. And maybe for the empty slot adding a new water spell? Hail--a shower of ice with a small a small AoE.(cross like AoE). As far as being a sadi only spells i dont use is para. poison, the block, EQ,PW, Tear(sometimes). I agree with the Ai boost i hate it when my UP sometimes charges the enemy once i have summoned it. >.> And Arg. bramble plz plz no more randomness.

0 0
Reply
Score : 6477
ElecAquaFire|2012-06-22 05:40:15
Suddenly got this idea for Earthquake And Poisoned Wind , a spell cast on a target (ally/enemy/self) that activates an AoE damage around it every time his/her/it's turn comes up , the AoE size could be the same as the one Burning Glyph has or bigger . The spell could maybe be modified to just hit enemies just like Mass Clumsiness does . In PvM this would be awesome with decent +damage set combined with mp stealing dolls and spells such as Wild Grass , while in group pvp (Kolo) might make the enemy go spread out so the others wont suffer damage . (Basically a walking burning glyph)

I kind of disagree with this idea, as Sadida's are a rather AoE oriented class. It is more advantageous to have enemies grouped together. This is apart from their high single target damage with Aggressive, but the random nature makes it lacking. Sadidas really shine with their AoE.
I once suggested making Earthquake have a small range with the same AoE. Targets in the AoE when cast would gain the Tremor State or some such, the AoE would then become a glyph. This glyph would trigger a dodge roll on anyone with the Tremor State moving from within the glyph. The lock of the glyph would be the same as the Sadida. It would also deal some Earth damage for ending your turn in the glyph (with or without the state). This would simulate an Earthquake and be a useful, interesting mechanic. Sadidas are all about disablement after all.

Alyss-Sin|2012-06-22 06:58:12
Personally I'd like to see Paralyzing Poison given to the Maddoll as a mid range spell that does not require the use of AP to trigger and have the Maddoll given a "cautious" AI staying just within range to cast Poison each turn. Make Paralyzing Poison last 2 turn and allow the Maddoll to cast it every turn. It gives the Sadida a distraction which is in the class description and allows them to consolidate 2 somewhat useless spells into one. Gives the Sadida a better reason to use The Maddoll. The only thing I see is the need to make Poison damaging enough at level 6 to warrant the waste of AP to kill it.

in line with the Sadidas voodoo master like playstyle.

Definitely would like to see more emphasis put on their summoning abilities they have a slew of cute dolls that are for the most part not worth using in PvM. Sometimes they have their uses but when they don't they're not used at all.
I absolutely LOVE this idea for the Maddoll!

I would also take away the -Int from Poisoned Wind...just hear me out...and instead have it apply a malus that reduced healing done to targets. In this way damage and healing malus could apply to the enemies and the heal malus alone could apply to allies. This would make it a more useful spell, assuming the malus applied to steals as well, but even if it didn't it would be more useful in my opinion.

The spell opened up from Paralyzing Poison could be a more legitimate voodoo doll.

It could have roughly 400-600 HP max. It would cast a sort of reverse Sacrifice. Attacking the doll would deal 1/2 of the damage to the "reverse sacrificed" (Hexed?) target.

It would have a moderate cooldown however. And an equalizing factor could be this: If the Hexed target or perhaps the Hexed targets allies attacked the doll, the Hexed target would be healed by 1/2 the damage. It is sort of like a reverse Tree of Life. Only in this way it functions as a Tree of Life or death haha.

It could potentially Hex an ally, allowing for extra healing, but enemies could capitalize on this to damage the target as well.

0 0
Reply
Score : 447

Voodoo doll is a GREAT idea, I dream of the day that spell arrives on dofus! The healing malus idea as a side effect of PoW is great too smile
But we have a tricky problem with the poisoning madoll: on epic-lvls the dople sumons A LOT of that, just wouldn't be fair a ton of dolls poisoning; their role it's not do that, instead it could only takes AP or have a 1/5 critical rate. Other point is that I don't think we will ever have a glyph type spell... just saying.

0 0
Reply
Respond to this thread