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Ecaflip Balancing

By Frunupulax August 13, 2012, 10:48:31

No matter if you play an Ecaflip or have only fought against them, let us know what you think about the class.

Here are some questions you may consider:

  • Gambling and a reliance on luck is what's supposed to define the Ecaflip. How well does this background translate into gameplay? Do you think the spells should be more or less luck-based?
  • How does the Ecaflip compare to other classes in PvM? How about PvP? Are they a valuable team member?
  • Do Ecaflips have abilities that are underused? Why do you think these are not used more often?
  • Do Ecaflips have abilities that are broken or overpowered? What makes them broken?
  • What do you think about the elemental diversity of the class? Are the different builds balanced?

Simultaneously, we have asked the developers about the status of certain spells that have not been updated along with the recent game developments (e.g. long effect durations exceeding unbewitch). We will inform you as soon as we receive an update on this matter.
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Frunupulax|2012-08-13 10:48:31
Gambling and a reliance on luck is what's supposed to define the Ecaflip. How well does this background translate into gameplay?


In my opinion, it's a very poor concept for something that is touted to be a strategic game. Luck is the complete opposite of strategy. How are you supposed to plan something if everything will just go off randomly according to luck? Especially if you need to do something like pushback (Fate of Ecaflip) or buffing important stats (Smell), you need this stuff to work. You can't just waste your whole turn trying to push back a big monster and nothing happens. Might as well just cast release.

Do you think the spells should be more or less luck-based?


The less, the better.

How does the Ecaflip compare to other classes in PvM?


I can't remember the last time i ever did PvM with an eca. Nobody seems to want to use them.

Are they a valuable team member?


No. Other classes cover the things that ecas can do - and they actually work.

Do Ecaflips have abilities that are underused? Why do you think these are not used more often?


Pretty much everything they can do because it never works or does what you want when you need it. Clover and WoF are reliable buffs, though.

Do Ecaflips have abilities that are broken or overpowered? What makes them broken?


Ecaflip's Luck holds the dubious honor of being less than useless and overpowered at the same time. It's just a really annoying ability that pisses off everyone. Well, basically if you're almost dead, it has the potential to make you take all the hits in the world and heal you to full hp while you're at it. That's quite insane.

On average, it halves the damage you get, which is nice. But see, that's just an *average*. What really happens is that it just does whatever it wants and no strategy is involved at all.

What do you think about the elemental diversity of the class? Are the different builds balanced?


Ironically, chance ecas are not viable at all. Bluff only does water damage when it feels like it and Rekop does a whoppin' 7-11 base water damage. he other builds are alright, i guess.
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Score : 490
  • Gambling and a reliance on luck is what's supposed to define the Ecaflip. How well does this background translate into gameplay? Do you think the spells should be more or less luck-based?


the luck theme works just fine to me the background is more translated into if u get a crit or not

  • How does the Ecaflip compare to other classes in PvM? How about PvP? Are they a valuable team member?


I love smell and their stackable -mp/ap spells that makes them better than any other spell to me(once they crit) in pvm, I think they are fairly balanced in pvp(some classes ecaflips gets a problem with but overall it's just fine)

  • Do Ecaflips have abilities that are underused? Why do you think these are not used more often?


I think they got two abilities that needs to be changed, the first one is feline spirit which is once again made useless(even though i must admit it was rather op before the last update it had), a suggestion to it would be to make it to have their range back, but make it have a 2 turn cooldown with a slight increase in base damage at the second shot.
the other ability is around two spells: AoN and HoT while HoT isn't as unused it could use a buff too. Make the heal on enemy and the damage on allies low and static(just like the old word of sacrifice), this would make it castable in a crowded spot and have str/int ecaflips more useful.


  • What do you think about the elemental diversity of the class? Are the different builds balanced?


I think the point is to have 3 main elements and have a decent way of becoming omni

I also have a suggestion to make rekop labeled as a poison(which goes through linear spell shield) but it isn't needed and ecaflips have other ways to work around shields
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Score : 86

The class need a major overhaul to the roulette spell, i don't have a problem with anything else..but roulette for 1 shouldn't be an "everybody wins" thing..i mean if i go to vegas and play the roulette table i don't win every time. Also the buffs and debuffs on the spell are silly, some of them serve no purpose to the class.
+mp/ap removal- If I'm going to use FoE or CoC I'm going to use it FOR THE CRIT.
+dodge/-dodge- Seriously, we do have feline leap..no?
+pushback damage- ._." We have Fate of Ecaflip (which must crit AND be within distance of a wall) and felition? Maybe release? This should be replaced.
+Heals- This is only useful for the intel build, or messing up your HoT damage on the strength build.

I would like to see maybe, some -mp/ap rolls? +%/linear res? + critical res? + elemental damages? Idk, but the spell is terrible in my opinion.

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Score : 490

roulette could also get +crit damage as an effect or -critical resistance

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Score : 258
Gambling and a reliance on luck is what's supposed to define the Ecaflip. How well does this background translate into gameplay? Do you think the spells should be more or less luck-based?
From my perspective of the class in general, I played one for quite so time and frequently team with some if not in PvM then pvp, there spells as they are now seem to fit them borderline perfect, with a few tweaks which I've heard from people who use the class, spells such as Rekop especially fit the class, now at a first glance it might not seem awfully luck based, the damage will hit the target no matter what but most people overlook the fact that it is luck on which turn it hits which itself provides some balancing.

How does the Ecaflip compare to other classes in PvM? How about PvP? Are they a valuable team member?
In PvM I find Ecaflips one of the most handy classes to have as their spells are very team-friendly unlike some classes with spells like Smell which can easily effect an entire team's game plan and how they function, I also see the same kind of usage when in team PvP, they also stick out to me as a very strong solo character in both PvP and PvM.

Do Ecaflips have abilities that are underused? Why do you think these are not used more often?
One of the most underused spells I can think of which is in the Ecaflip's arsenal is Rekop though that doesn't mean it's not incredibly powerful, most people completely overlook this spell due to it being multiple low damage elements (which in turn adds up to a relatively high damage spell) making it a pretty undesirable spell to someone who is only maining 1 element or using a common cookie cutter build.

Do Ecaflips have abilities that are broken or overpowered? What makes them broken?
Some Ecaflips aren't often called overpowered during solo PvP and are generally overlooked in this category a fair amount though they do seem to making a pretty nice come back into PvP after so many people considered them as a relatively weak class despite them being able to counter classes such as Sram very nicely, personally I don't see the Ecaflip as overpowered or broken, there is a very nice amount of balance to the class despite being based off of luck.

What do you think about the elemental diversity of the class? Are the different builds balanced?
Ecaflips spells are seemingly set out to be a very diverse class and there is a few different builds which work however most are currently overlooked by the fact Strength or Agility builds can hit ridiculously high in CC requiring very little effort or thought into what spells they use, the class itself is very well balanced as are the majority of the different builds however Strength and agility on most classes will have high CC damage so it can't be blamed on the class.
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Score : 1430
Gambling and a reliance on luck is what's supposed to define the Ecaflip. How well does this background translate into gameplay? Do you think the spells should be more or less luck-based?

Some of the Ecaflip more usefull spells are about luck... if you get a crit or not, which does make it a luck-based class. In my opinion the class has a decent amount of luckbased spells, thus being enough luck-based.

How does the Ecaflip compare to other classes in PvM? How about PvP? Are they a valuable team member?

The Ecaflip class do fairly good in PvM, and even better in PvP. They are very versaile, but sadly since some of the most usefull spells (FoE for example) relies on a crit to be effective, most teams would use any other class, which can be more or less usefull. The fact that you need luck to do "good" repels people.
Though don't get me wrong, they ARE a good team member, however maybe less usefull in comparesion to other classes?

Do Ecaflips have abilities that are underused? Why do you think these are not used more often?

As mentioned earlier, Rekop is a very underused and under estimated spell. The reason to why is probably because people are too inpatient to wait a couple of turns. It is an awesome spell, and as said, very underestimated. A way to "fix" that, might be to make it able to hit trough shields? VS for example fecas, or any other class with damage reduction, the spell is useless. Making it hit as a poision rather than delayed damage (but it's still random of it hits in 1, 2 or 3 turns, as it is now) could make people use it more often?

Do Ecaflips have abilities that are broken or overpowered? What makes them broken?

First of all, Roulette. Some of the effects are useless in my opinion. It can give some smexi buffs, but after it's update, I've stopped using it (unless for the Casino Royale challange). The fact that it buffs the enemy too makes it a real risk in PvP. So I guess I could say that the spell could need some adjustments.
Then there is Feline Spirit. I am sure that 99% of all Ecas agree with me that it needs a fix. How it is now makes it useless. The previous version was way to overpowered, ruining tactical gameplay, but how it is now makes it the least used spell ever.

(Not really a broken spell, but: In my opinion the damage on Perception could be increased to 15 or 20? I mean... Look at the damagebuffs iops, cras and masqs have. The Eca's only +damage buff is a bit small in comparesion? The reveal-all-invisible-stuff effect sort of weights up for the small damage boost.. but common xD )

What do you think about the elemental diversity of the class? Are the different builds balanced?

I think the elementary diversity of the class is good as it is. Agility might have very short range, but it has solid damage at close range.
I don't see any reason to change the element diversity. Most people go strenght, as thats the highest hitting build, but all Eca builds are good and viable, even omni.
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Score : 3959
knutsnuts|2012-08-14 09:57:05
The class need a major overhaul to the roulette spell, i don't have a problem with anything else..but roulette for 1 shouldn't be an "everybody wins" thing..i mean if i go to vegas and play the roulette table i don't win every time. Also the buffs and debuffs on the spell are silly, some of them serve no purpose to the class.
+mp/ap removal- If I'm going to use FoE or CoC I'm going to use it FOR THE CRIT. And if you dont crit? Plus if you have an xelor or the enemey has an xelor it would be even more fun wink
+dodge/-dodge- Seriously, we do have feline leap..no? Others classes dont, and if you have 10ap and you have gigars two swings is better then one!
+pushback damage- ._." We have Fate of Ecaflip (which must crit AND be within distance of a wall) and felition? Maybe release? This should be replaced.Here I agree. It kind of sucks for anybody.
+Heals- This is only useful for the intel build, or messing up your HoT damage on the strength build. So it buffs one build, and hinders the other, and buffs all healing classes? I dont see a need for it to be changed.

I would like to see maybe, some -mp/ap rolls? +%/linear res? + critical res? + elemental damages? Idk, but the spell is terrible in my opinion. The spell isnt BAD its just really situational. One time I had a fight in the bag, then the eca casts roulete gains 4mp and k.os my eni. Another time the eca casted roulette gave me 400 str on puntis turn and I had greed on as well as powerful shooting with 12 ap! That turn the eni died giving me the win! I like the spell for pvp but in pvm... It sucks... So bad.... I cant even begin to describe the awfulness this spell has in pvm.
Well the whole point of roulette is randomness. I dont have alot of eca experience though as the last time I used one was in like 1.27?
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Score : 3543
knutsnuts|2012-08-14 09:57:05
The class need a major overhaul to the roulette spell, i don't have a problem with anything else..but roulette for 1 shouldn't be an "everybody wins" thing..i mean if i go to vegas and play the roulette table i don't win every time. Also the buffs and debuffs on the spell are silly, some of them serve no purpose to the class.
+mp/ap removal- If I'm going to use FoE or CoC I'm going to use it FOR THE CRIT.
+dodge/-dodge- Seriously, we do have feline leap..no?
+pushback damage- ._." We have Fate of Ecaflip (which must crit AND be within distance of a wall) and felition? Maybe release? This should be replaced.
+Heals- This is only useful for the intel build, or messing up your HoT damage on the strength build.

I would like to see maybe, some -mp/ap rolls? +%/linear res? + critical res? + elemental damages? Idk, but the spell is terrible in my opinion.
Umm.. i'm 100% sure that the bonuses are intended that way. If all of the buffs from roulette were designed to give the Eca a buff EVERY SINGLE TURN then it wouldn't be luck based in the least. Roulette is supposed to be a skill that can either help someone on your team, yourself or the enemies. Not just the Eca.
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Score : 2031

Gambling and a reliance on luck is what's supposed to define the Ecaflip. How well does this background translate into gameplay?

I actually have to agree with Blazeron on this. Just having things randomly occur translates to a poor strategic gameplay experience. It also doesn't make sense to implement luck-based skills that are a no-brainer on whether or not they should be used (like eca's luck). Either way, it's not really gambling. Playing the eca class should involve deciding when to best to take a gambit, and when it's best to take the safe bet. Also, if you fail a gambit there should be consequences, and often consequences are either minimal or non-existant.

Do you think the spells should be more or less luck-based?

I feel all the support abiltities should be luck-based, while the attacks should be split between those that are luck-based in some way and those that don't really have a lot of luck involved at all (as safe foils for when a player is deciding on whether or not to take a gambit).

I feel that currently all of the support abilties are handled poorly. Ecaflip's luck and smell are luck-based, sure but where's the decision making process involved in whether or not to use these spells? These spells are often no brainers on when to cast them. Eca's luck is always cast right before death is imminent, and smell is always cast in the beginning of a match to potentially give your team a boost when there's nothing else to do. Repercussion and wheel of fortune are straight up buffs that have no luck involved at all (and that are also pretty straight-forward on when to cast), and roulette is so random that you can't ever potentially form a plan around it, especially considering it affects both teams. When roulette either affected allies or enemies, you could at least make a decision based on whether or not your team could adapt should you get a bad roulette.

I do like how a lot of the attack spells are handled though. I like how the str element is generally handled, and I think the other elements should be designed accordingly. The strength build provides some actual choices to be made. Do you go with the pure CC damage, or would it be better to try and go for the ap theft or mp theft with knockback? Should you take the gambit in using feline spirit to deal higher damage, while potentially dealing damage to yourself down the road should you not find a target for it? I also like that there are safer alternatives provided with heads or tails and playful claw. I also like the premise behind rekop, you could potentially deal some pretty good damage with it, but can you risk it being delayed for a few turns? There's no gambling involved at all with the intel element, though, and the agi build could also use some work. I also don't know how I feel about all or nothing.

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Score : 86
kakisuka|2012-08-15 00:17:52
knutsnuts|2012-08-14 09:57:05
The class need a major overhaul to the roulette spell, i don't have a problem with anything else..but roulette for 1 shouldn't be an "everybody wins" thing..i mean if i go to vegas and play the roulette table i don't win every time. Also the buffs and debuffs on the spell are silly, some of them serve no purpose to the class.
+mp/ap removal- If I'm going to use FoE or CoC I'm going to use it FOR THE CRIT.
+dodge/-dodge- Seriously, we do have feline leap..no?
+pushback damage- ._." We have Fate of Ecaflip (which must crit AND be within distance of a wall) and felition? Maybe release? This should be replaced.
+Heals- This is only useful for the intel build, or messing up your HoT damage on the strength build.

I would like to see maybe, some -mp/ap rolls? +%/linear res? + critical res? + elemental damages? Idk, but the spell is terrible in my opinion.
Roulette is supposed to be a skill that can either help someone on your team, yourself or the enemies. Not just the Eca.
Lol, with that logic all class buffs should effect everyone then. Not just the character that casts it. The 1.29 roulette was fine imo. The spell just needs to be replaced, it has no place in dofus anymore but to help out everyone else but the ecaflip (rarely helping the ecaflip) I'd take a new buff (currently thinking of ideas) with a luck factor in it. Also..Ecaflip's Luck. How do you guys feel about it being on cast 50% raise all Resistance to 50% or 50% lower them -50%? (2ap,crit makes the duration 2 turns, 1 more turn of cd compared to the current Ecaflip's Luck). It gets rid of the luck factor that everyone complains so much about, and keeps the purpose of the spell, reduce damage or take way more than usual..this way people can tactically decide whether or not to attack the ecaflip or buff/runaway or something.
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Score : 3959
knutsnuts|2012-08-15 11:03:46
kakisuka|2012-08-15 00:17:52
knutsnuts|2012-08-14 09:57:05
The class need a major overhaul to the roulette spell, i don't have a problem with anything else..but roulette for 1 shouldn't be an "everybody wins" thing..i mean if i go to vegas and play the roulette table i don't win every time. Also the buffs and debuffs on the spell are silly, some of them serve no purpose to the class.
+mp/ap removal- If I'm going to use FoE or CoC I'm going to use it FOR THE CRIT.
+dodge/-dodge- Seriously, we do have feline leap..no?
+pushback damage- ._." We have Fate of Ecaflip (which must crit AND be within distance of a wall) and felition? Maybe release? This should be replaced.
+Heals- This is only useful for the intel build, or messing up your HoT damage on the strength build.

I would like to see maybe, some -mp/ap rolls? +%/linear res? + critical res? + elemental damages? Idk, but the spell is terrible in my opinion.
Roulette is supposed to be a skill that can either help someone on your team, yourself or the enemies. Not just the Eca.
Lol, with that logic all class buffs should effect everyone then. Not just the character that casts it. The 1.29 roulette was fine imo. The spell just needs to be replaced, it has no place in dofus anymore but to help out everyone else but the ecaflip (rarely helping the ecaflip) I'd take a new buff (currently thinking of ideas) with a luck factor in it. Also..Ecaflip's Luck. How do you guys feel about it being on cast 50% raise all Resistance to 50% or 50% lower them -50%? (2ap,crit makes the duration 2 turns, 1 more turn of cd compared to the current Ecaflip's Luck). It gets rid of the luck factor that everyone complains so much about, and keeps the purpose of the spell, reduce damage or take way more than usual..this way people can tactically decide whether or not to attack the ecaflip or buff/runaway or something.
No its different logic because the eca is a luck based class and roulette is luck based. Wheel of fortune doesnt buff the enemy unless you cast it on them same with stim word (stupid nurf) and devotion (also stupid nurf). Your ecas luck idea is a good one but I dont know how useful it would be compared to the current one. Also I agree that ecaflips are poor game design being based on luck but dofus is full of those (for example, critical fails).
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Score : 5025
Gambling and a reliance on luck is what's supposed to define the Ecaflip. How well does this background translate into gameplay? Do you think the spells should be more or less luck-based?

Well the Ecaflip is ment to be a luck based character but I feel they have the same luck as everyone else ( almost ). I feel their spells should be more luck based.
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Score : 2031
knutsnuts|2012-08-15 11:03:46
kakisuka|2012-08-15 00:17:52
knutsnuts|2012-08-14 09:57:05
The class need a major overhaul to the roulette spell, i don't have a problem with anything else..but roulette for 1 shouldn't be an "everybody wins" thing..i mean if i go to vegas and play the roulette table i don't win every time. Also the buffs and debuffs on the spell are silly, some of them serve no purpose to the class.
+mp/ap removal- If I'm going to use FoE or CoC I'm going to use it FOR THE CRIT.
+dodge/-dodge- Seriously, we do have feline leap..no?
+pushback damage- ._." We have Fate of Ecaflip (which must crit AND be within distance of a wall) and felition? Maybe release? This should be replaced.
+Heals- This is only useful for the intel build, or messing up your HoT damage on the strength build.

I would like to see maybe, some -mp/ap rolls? +%/linear res? + critical res? + elemental damages? Idk, but the spell is terrible in my opinion.
Roulette is supposed to be a skill that can either help someone on your team, yourself or the enemies. Not just the Eca.
Lol, with that logic all class buffs should effect everyone then. Not just the character that casts it. The 1.29 roulette was fine imo. The spell just needs to be replaced, it has no place in dofus anymore but to help out everyone else but the ecaflip (rarely helping the ecaflip) I'd take a new buff (currently thinking of ideas) with a luck factor in it. Also..Ecaflip's Luck. How do you guys feel about it being on cast 50% raise all Resistance to 50% or 50% lower them -50%? (2ap,crit makes the duration 2 turns, 1 more turn of cd compared to the current Ecaflip's Luck). It gets rid of the luck factor that everyone complains so much about, and keeps the purpose of the spell, reduce damage or take way more than usual..this way people can tactically decide whether or not to attack the ecaflip or buff/runaway or something.
The numbers may have to be adjusted but I like the concept behind the ecaflip's luck you suggested more than the current one.
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Score : 17

I personally play as an Int Eca and love the current set up. Rough Tongue and Topkaj are great moves as they currently stand. My only complaint is that I wish there was a better healing aspect for Head or Tails and All or Nothing. As Heads or Tails is 3 ap spell, I would want the healing aspect to be higher. Even with plus heals and high Intelligence with endgame gear, there is the possibility to only heal for 40-70 whether it is myself or an ally. On a crit Heads or Tails damages and does not heal at all. All or Nothing follows the same situation where it can only heal allies for 50-100 on occasion and sometimes doing a regular healing of 300-400 (depending on gear and such). All or Nothing only becomes very important if you can get it to crit. It will do more damage before it heals, but it can heal upwards of 1000. I would only ask that Head or Tails gets a better healing aspect especially on crit, and All or Nothing to have consistent healing ratio on noncrit.

As far as the other spells, I would say to remove Feline Spirit as an earth spell and change it to a chance, agility, or intelligence spell. This way it would balance other element builds.

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Score : 86

Int ecas are broken, as azn-skills has shown the world. Any sort of buff to them would just lead to more eca complaints. All or nothing and HoT should be reworked, lose the healing factor..and gain more delayed damage maybe? Also, Change felintion so its usable by every class build like every other class spell, something like..idk a spell that re-rolls the last effect of roulette? (That could be overpowered or broken but its just an idea) Even though earlier i proposed to remove roulette as a whole, i would also like to incorporate my class spell in my strategy when i play the game, if I'm not the strength build of course. As of now..I'm not strength and all it is to me is a bad range 4ap 2 push back spell. Which is sooooo lame.

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Score : 334
knutsnuts|2012-08-16 23:50:59
All or nothing and HoT should be reworked, lose the healing factor..and gain more delayed damage maybe?
Zyn just because You die with All or nothing dosent mean we should rework it . all or nothing is fine . but i agree with you about Heads or Tails they need to change the animation and the spell should have a great damage + some type of "Disability" like something like - 30 str ( just like the spell the fekas has )
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Score : 5025

HoT shouldn't be changed. If you got good range then that spell will be awesome. I've seen an eca having +8 range ( without really trying ) and he was str/agi, he was doing 150-200 a hit ( non crit ) with HoT and his range was amazing, HoT shouldn't be changed as 150-200 for a 3 ap spell is already awesome. If it gets changed it will be OP.

P.S. I play for a rogue and masque and fogger and I still think that range is insane for that class.

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Score : 7685

Remember that HoT is an Ecaflip starting spell and their only starting spell that's actually an attack (the other two being Ecaflip's Luck and Feline's Leap). If you start messing with it too much to make it use some bizarre mechanic, and you'll have low-level characters dying left and right due to having, effectively, no attacks.

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Score : 1693

One issue with Heads or Tails is the overly random damage. It starts at 4~11 at lvl 1, increases to 4~15 at 5 (notice the minimal improvement) and then 6~19 at 6. It could do with a slight damage adjustment so the leveling curve is at least better. With the random damage it is one of the few last spells being like that. The question is - outdated and in need of a de-randomisation like other spells or just typical and fitting for the "luck" class?

Another issue is: the combination of healing and damage. Clearly, the developers intended a double role as ally heal and enemy damage. I myself rarely if ever use HoT because most of the time I am sporting a str/int build and the spell does not do any of its jobs well that way. I find the unreliable damage gets further offset by the healing and the netto healing on allies is laughable without a +heals roulette.
I'd be interested to hear what use other builds get out of it - pure str Ecas can surely get high amounts of str and earth damage with low heals. Do you think it's a good damage spell (surely it is unique in its long range). Do you int Ecas out there find the spell useful for healing? What about hybrid or %dmg builds?

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