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Drops System

By Nikto August 18, 2012, 18:16:56

Drop system -- prospecting, prospecting lock, drop rates -- is one of the cornerstones of the game mechanics. It endured for years without any significant changes. And even the new focus on single account players and resulted from it new dungeon system left the system almost intact: the PP lock was lowered to 400 PP and the minimal drop rate was increased to 1% (with the exception of dofus eggs).

This topic is dedicated to the discussion of the drop system in general, excluding dofuses (they have a separate topic for discussion).

  • How does the existing drop system affect groups?
  • Do you think that the drop distribution is fair in a group fight, i.e. how the drops are distributed among different characters?
  • Do (or did) you ever need any droppable resource in great quantities? How would you obtain it (for example, go to a drop hunt, buy it, ask friends, get from your chest, etc.)?
  • Are existing drop rates well-balanced?
  • Do you think that drops can be a good source of income?
  • Is there something important that was not mentioned above?
  • What would you change in the drop system?
 
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How does the existing drop system affect groups?
I much prefer the 400 pp lock. I have had one or two nice non-dofus drops since the implementation of the lower pp lock.

Do you think that the drop distribution is fair in a group fight, i.e. how the drops are distributed among different characters?
The rarer drops still seem to go to party members with the lowest iniative or those with higher pp. I do multi-account though, so don't tend to pay too much attention to who gets the individual drops unless I'm hunting for something specific.

Do (or did) you ever need any droppable resource in great quantities? How would you obtain it (for example, go to a drop hunt, buy it, ask friends, get from your chest, etc.)?
First port of call for resources is to check the bank and the house chests. Then I'll look in the salerooms. I haven't asked friends for… years. If I still can't find something, I'll hunt it. Grinding for huge quantities of drops has mostly gone since the ability to get scrolls via doploons and from mount certificates was introduced.

Are existing drop rates well-balanced?
Getting the rarer drops is still down to a huge portion of luck and a decent amount of pp. My team of 4 still get out dropped by a team of 4 enus. (Tried and tested!)

Do you think that drops can be a good source of income?
In-demand/rarer items will always fetch a higher price in supply vs. demand. Resources for professions are quite often sought after. Some drops just seem to take up space in the bank and are practically worthless, especially since the removal of the drops for scrolls. Worst offenders in my bank are strawberries, gobball slobber, flint and granite.

What would you change in the drop system?
* I'd make items that you have to get to access areas - like the turtle shells to access Moon - a guaranteed drop. I usually have to put a pp pet on to get those faster.More pp pets that give bonuses in different areas (rather than just Moon Island, TreeKeeholo and Dark Jungle).
* An alternative route like the ice kamas to exchange for some resources that are harder to find.
* I don't like PvP, so I'd make the Kolo pebbles a drop so I can be more self-sufficient in getting spell point scrolls again. (Unrealistic, unlikely, and lots of other un-prefixed words...)

(Edited to tweak formatting.)
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All I'm going to say about the new drop system is that with the global cap on all droppable items set to 400, the Enutrof's innate 20-point prospection point class-bonus is now worth substantially less than it was in the past. Lichen wants to remove the Enutrof's advantage as a treasure hunter, and in a way I can see why he wants to do that, but the Enutrof suffers a variety of weaknesses all created to balance the same prospection-point bonus. By capping the maximum points needed to drop any item at 400, the Enutrof has lost quite a bit of that special 20-point prospection bonus and become less valuable to a team. This will prove an even greater detriment to the Enutrof when Lichen decides the time is right to remove the additional loot roll gained from the Living Chest. This new drop system levels the playing field, which is great for 14 of the 15 classes in the game, but this was a net loss for the Enutrof.

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Score : 236

As a whole I am of two minds about the current drop system. It caters to multi-accounters so I really dislike that. I use 2-3 accounts but would love to be able to get by with just 1 because its super annoying to play more then one character. However because of the HIGH luck factor in dropping the more rare things I cant just beg random groups of people, thus I am stuck with running my different characters to raise my luck in dropping that Inside out under shorts I need for Sovereign set, or that Kimbo wig. Professions grinding has gotten intolerably more annoying with the dungeon reduction. Now to farm kitsou hairs I have to run all my chars through the dungeon to get more monsters but ALSO the keys are no longer dropable so I am using mats I need for the crafts to level on making keys...otherwise its running all over pandala looking for kitsous. Something needs to be done with the professions mat drops but otherwise I am mostly ok with it.

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Nikto|2012-08-18 18:16:56
Drop system -- prospecting, prospecting lock, drop rates -- is one of the cornerstones of the game mechanics. It endured for years without any significant changes. And even the new focus on single account players and resulted from it new dungeon system left the system almost intact: the PP lock was lowered to 400 PP and the minimal drop rate was increased to 1% (with the exception of dofus eggs).

This topic is dedicated to the discussion of the drop system in general, excluding dofuses (they have a separate topic for discussion).
  • How does the existing drop system affect groups?
  • Do you think that the drop distribution is fair in a group fight, i.e. how the drops are distributed among different characters?
  • Do (or did) you ever need any droppable resource in great quantities? How would you obtain it (for example, go to a drop hunt, buy it, ask friends, get from your chest, etc.)?
  • Are existing drop rates well-balanced?
  • Do you think that drops can be a good source of income?
  • Is there something important that was not mentioned above?
  • What would you change in the drop system?

How does the existing drop system affect groups?
I am not really sure to answer that one; my perspective being that of an 8 man team, if I can't drop X item this time round, I will keep at it until it does drop. With the PP lock being dropped to 400, if it's a mob type that my enu can drop by herself then I can grind it out like that as well.

Do I think the drop distribution is fair?
Yes and no. It seems that for the eggs, it is quite fair, as I think only 1 should drop in any given fight for them. For everything else, not so much. Case in point if you will, Gelanos are supposed to be dropped from Strawberry Jellies, you *only* need 1 in the given mob to have a chance to drop it. However, it seems that if you increase the amount of Strawberry Jellies in the mob, you have a better chance of it; and then it is only 1 person getting the Gelano, and not everyone or anyone else when there are multiple Strawberry Jellies in the mob (though, to be honest I have never seen it drop any higher in 5 years of playing). If it not an exclusive item like the eggs, I would like to see them dropped in higher amounts, even if it means that a player gets a Gelano as well as the Perc on the map.

Have I ever needed drops in high quantities, and how did I get them?
Yes, ungodly amounts of drops, primarily focused on leveling a profession. My opinion is that some of the materials needed for items is just ridiculously insane and doesn't fit the item itself. Take Kitsou Dungeon Keys for instance, it needs 7 of each skin type; so it's a pain in the arse to farm for, and the easiest place to farm it is in the dungeon itself. If it wasn't for being a multi-clienter, I think I would be bashing my skull in against a brick wall trying to use that as a recipe to level my Handyman. How I get the most of my mats is by farming it, until I just can't take another fight against that mob type and I resort to buying it; or even asking friends to help.

Are existing drop rates well balanced?
It depends on what a person considers balanced in the first place. I personally have to say that it isn't It's quite annoying to fight something for a particular mat in a solo aspect (player v. solo critter) and not getting the item; I find it more infuriating when it in multiples (player v. 2+ single critter type) and still can't drop even 1 of the item I am looking for. It also appears that some items just refuse to drop in multiple quantities for some things, but is more than happy to give you multiples of other items that you don't need (I have personally dropped multiple Gwass Barks when having 1 Gwass in the mob, but haven't always dropped that Rotoflor Bark when there have 3-4 of them in the mob, or have only dropped 1 period.

Do I think that drops can be a good source of income?
Depends on the level range of the drops. If I can drop eggs all day long, yeah that would be a great source of income. But realistically, the only good source of income I see from drops is from places that (this is said sarcastically) where the MC's farm. Strictly due to the nature of how the game was before the ADDS.

Is there something that wasn't mentioned?
Yeah, the official drop rates for all the items in the game.

What would I change about the drop system?
I would like the drop rates themselves to be increased across the board. To how much, I am not sure; but everything for everyone should be slightly easier.
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Hello fellow Dofusians,

This is just a post to remind the community of our ongoing research of the drop system.

We have received some well thought out and helpful feedback thus far...however we require the input of many individuals.

We would like our analysis of this topic to be as thorough as possible.

Low level, high level, multiclienter or solo player...we would like to hear from you.

It is essential that we gather as much information as possible from a broad spectrum of players.

Necromancy, aside from highly specific topics (such as 2.6 update threads for example), doesn't really apply in this section.

Just because the Drops System topic has dropped to the bottom doesn't mean you can't post here.

There are several questions in the OP we would love to hear your answers to.

Thank you ^.^

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Nikto|2012-08-18 18:16:56
Drop system -- prospecting, prospecting lock, drop rates -- is one of the cornerstones of the game mechanics. It endured for years without any significant changes. And even the new focus on single account players and resulted from it new dungeon system left the system almost intact: the PP lock was lowered to 400 PP and the minimal drop rate was increased to 1% (with the exception of dofus eggs).

This topic is dedicated to the discussion of the drop system in general, excluding dofuses (they have a separate topic for discussion).
  • How does the existing drop system affect groups?
  • Do you think that the drop distribution is fair in a group fight, i.e. how the drops are distributed among different characters?
  • Do (or did) you ever need any droppable resource in great quantities? How would you obtain it (for example, go to a drop hunt, buy it, ask friends, get from your chest, etc.)?
  • Are existing drop rates well-balanced?
  • Do you think that drops can be a good source of income?
  • Is there something important that was not mentioned above?
  • What would you change in the drop system?
  1. I think that it promotes multi clienting... Why would you go in a group with other people when it's both harder to find the said group, and the drop limits mean that there's a very small chance of you actually getting that rare drop. EDIT: Voidofsouls corrected me, I thought it was still locked on certain items. It's just the prospecting locks that irritate me then, and how people seem to need prospecting rigged characters (you will hardly find a legitimate member like this, as it's boring. thus leading to multiclienting)
  2. I'm not sure about now since I rarely do much PvM where drops are the aim (The last items I farmed up were dopples stones, and we never really got more than 1 per fight) but I vaguely recall the people with the higher prospecting getting the majority of the drops... Which I didn't really agree with, considering it means that you have to be chance to get the drops (leading back to multi clienting so you can have chance/prospecting characters on your team).
  3. Yes, and I would buy it or ask guild mates. If buying the items were too expensive or my guild mates didn't have the item, then I would ask some friends to help me farm it.
  4. I don't really want to put an opinion on this due to how biased I am...
  5. Yes, however with the removal of trading for scrolls, it's harder for the lower level drops to give money.
  6. + 7. I think that I would like drops to be made so they're friendlier towards people who use one account, which is making it so that people aren't punished for doing dungeons in small groups. I thought that the new dungeon system was aimed for this, however the amount of drops that you get from 4 loot are pathetic. It still promotes multi clienting. People should not be punished for having one account. A small group of people should get the same amount of drops as a group of 8 people. I was a bit ranty there, but i'm essentially suggesting the removal of prospecting locks on all items except Dofuses (which I don't think should be obtainable from drops, but that's already been covered in other topics). I am also suggesting that the amount of players in a fight does not affect the amount of drops that the single player gains.

You might complain that "but if people have more accounts then they deserve more drops", I think that this is just absurd. The new dungeon system and the current drop system makes it difficult for solo players or small groups to get drops while promoting multi clienting with 8 accounts.
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kakisuka|2012-10-06 21:46:43
  1. I think that it promotes multi clienting... Why would you go in a group with other people when it's both harder to find the said group, and the drop limits mean that there's a very small chance of you actually getting that rare drop.
Drop limits were removed. Each monster can drop an item for each person in the fight. That includes dropping more than 1 Dofus in a single fight as well.
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How does the existing drop system affect groups?
In hunting groups, new people to a group are always welcome to join, but are required to skip their turn immediately, making gameplay very boring for these players. Also, a lot of alts and second accounts are there just to fill up the ranks and increase PP. These are usually perferred to new and different player, because they are faster (connection ping time as well as that their owner skips turns much faster).

Do you think that the drop distribution is fair in a group fight, i.e. how the drops are distributed among different characters?
I think the system is not fair. It favours multi-account players too much. There is absolutely no system to share gain on rare drops between different characters. So in the end, it punishes people who are willingly to let other people join their group if they could use an own second account instead.

Do (or did) you ever need any droppable resource in great quantities? How would you obtain it (for example, go to a drop hunt, buy it, ask friends, get from your chest, etc.)?
Most crafting professions need huge quantities of droppable-only resources. Mostly affected seems to be Tailor and Shoemaker. Levelling these professions without getting the drops by yourself takes a long time (if you have to wait for cheap market resources) and/or is very expensive. However, I don't see this as bad. Not all professions need to be easy obtainable and Dofus is a grinding game, so there is nothing wrong in having professions where you have to grind monster drops.

Do you think that drops can be a good source of income?
Yes, to an worrying degree. It will always be that people hunt specific monsters just for their drops, but in Dofus I found this too much.

Is there something important that was not mentioned above?
Determine the value of a resource is hard in Dofus. Obtaining a specific uncommon and missing (not in market) drop is hard too. It involves spamming the market channel or forum or running around and scanning merchants.
It would be nice if you can put a "buy order" on the market to hint other people what you are willingly to buy. Like the origin market, where you can place buy as well as sell orders.

What would you change in the drop system?
I would like to explore the idea of making drop distribution dependend on battle activity. Basically, more active players will receive a bigger share of the loot.

Certainly, this is not as plain straight forward as this last sentence sounds - a lot of things need to be taken care of, but to me this sounds like a much more appealing direction than the current system. (I am totally aware that the first thought you will get when reading things like "battle activity based drop system" is "OMG, that is sooo abusable!", but keep in mind that the current system is HEAVILY abused by farming bots, mutli-accounts and favours boring free-loader).

The prospecting system can stay as it is (rare loot is unlocked by more players).
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One thing that should be changed in the drop system in my opinion is that drops should be much more dependent on skill than on luck.

One easy way to accomplish this would be to have challenges effect drop rate much more than they currently do. If completing challenges increased drop rate by 200% to 400% instead of the current 10%-100% it would allow even single accounts to get drops more easily by the use of skill, rather than luck.

Another fun way to do it would be to have specific "drop challenges". So for a fight show loot which might be dropped from the fight in a special list. So for a Kolosso fight it might show say 4 kolosso claws, and 1 kolosso fabric. Each item in the list would have a specific challenge which must be completed to "unlock" that drop. If the challenge is completed and the drop is unlocked then that item is a guaranteed drop for the group. (It would be random which group member got the drop)

Some ideas for challenges which could be used to unlock drops:

Kill the monster which drops the item on a particular tile,
Kill the monster which drops the item with a particular elemental attack,
Kill the monster which drops the item in a certain number of turns,
Only one person must attack the monster which drops the item,
etc.

In this way dropping would be based more on skill of the group than blind luck as it currently is. One problem is this system would favor veteran, experienced players much more and possibly make it harder for new players to get drops because they won't be good at getting challenges.

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Score : 161

I just want one simple NPC to exchange big quantities of non dungeon drops for smaller qtys. of dungeon drops.
For instance, Can a solo account player ever drop a Royal Pingwin egg? No sir.
Can we use a NPC to exchange say 50/100 pingwinkle feathers for an egg? Absolutely.

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Score : 812
DarkSchnieder|2012-10-16 15:33:19
Can we use a NPC to exchange say 50/100 pingwinkle feathers for an egg? Absolutely.
Good idea.That NPC should be at the end of the dungeon, so nobody can farm dungeon drops without ever doing a dungeon.
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Score : 361
Do (or did) you ever need any droppable resource in great quantities? How would you obtain it (for example, go to a drop hunt, buy it, ask friends, get from your chest, etc.)?
1) check bank/chests, 2) check market, 3) ask friends/trading channer 4) farm it (4 could go before 2 oe 3 sometimes or not take place at all).

Are existing drop rates well-balanced?
It seems to be O.K. for after-Frigost stuff but I doupt anyone would like to farm a pre-Frigost set (eg 10 gourlo fabrics, 12 peki fabrics etc) unless they get advantage of the achievement system. Nevertheless, there are many people that use the pre-Frigost stuff as a step before getting an end level Frigost set so it's not a big deal.

Dofus' are hard to drop. It should remain this way but maybe there should be a way to get one for sure (eg I know a guy that did 450 dp souls with high pp and dropped only one 12ch dofus which is kinda unfair). I don't say there should be an easy way. Maybe a repeatable quest that wants you to kill dp in its dung 100 or 200 times, beating the PP lock, without dropping a dofus (it would reset your battles if you dropped one). Idk if this would work ok in action so there could be another way. Just something to make it more fair for so rare drops (without overflow the market).

The problem I have with drops is that now, with the 4-man in dungeon system, I usually drop more boss mats than normal monster mats. Maybe an ncp for the easier drops should be placed (like that grandma at Frigost which exists just for the hard normal-monster drops).

Oh, one drop i noticed is not well-balanced is gargoyle stuff (too rare).

Do you think that drops can be a good source of income?
I reckon that there are better/faster ways of making kamas like selling runes or equipment. Boss drops is something that everyone can have now, at least in some limitted quantity so not many people would pay for it. I suppose that some people could make money by selling resources needed for proffessions or by fighting dopples (75kk a day + scrolls to sell).
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