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Equipment and Sets - Topic of the Month (December)

By vagabaka - SUBSCRIBER - December 05, 2012, 03:08:26
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Score : 1857
CunningFiend|2013-01-03 12:06:47
Also, had to reply to this --

LaughinGhost|2013-01-01 00:07:20
vagabaka|2012-12-05 03:08:26
The -range of the Oshimo set is no big deal as others have said as it is only 3 pieces and leaves 5 more pieces, a pet slot and 6 dofus slots to make up for it. 12 more pieces of equipment is more than enough to counter the -3range if they so wish.

Q: How do you "counter -3 range" with "6 dofus slots"?

A: You don't.

...Unless there's a +range Dofus or +range trophy you know about. I'll be glad to hear about it.

That leaves 5 equip slots and 1 pet slot to "counter the -3 range", which is a total of 6 slots -- half as many as the 12 you claim.

Considering that no single equip gives +3 range, it takes at least two equips to counter the -3 range.

Since there are only half as many slots as you claim, and any part of the solution must occupy 2 slots, I'd rate your "no big deal" statement as being about 25% correct.
You can't counter -3 range with 6 dofus slots but you can sure do stuff to slightly make up for it (but only slightly). Vulbis dofus allows players to move more during a turn bringing them closer to targets meaning they need less range. Ochre dofus allows ecaflips to leap more, xelors to flight more and eniripsas to cast lifting word. All which can (kind of) slightly reduce the inconvenience of -range.

Also, if your build heavily relies on +range and you have no range buffs (location, distant shooting, roulette, lifting word, etc) then do yourself a favour, and don't use the Oshimo Set. There will be strength/chance builds that benefit from the Oshimo Set and strength/chance builds that will suffer from the -range from the Oshimo Set quite significantly to the point that it is not even worth their while using it. If you are the former, do not use the Oshimo Set.

And -range is a small price to pay for such high initiative, strength, chance, earth damage, neutral damage, water damage and an AP set bonus from only 3 pieces! A wonderful set in my opinion!

Last but not least, here is a new perspective:
Would you prefer the Oshimo set to be in existence or not to be in existence. At least with it being there you have the choice of using it. It's not like you're being forced to use it. Grab a strength/chance-maged Ogivol Set if you wish! But I suppose the -MP from that will be even a bigger deal! I guess strength/chance builds are just too powerful!
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LaughinGhost|2013-01-03 14:21:07
...Last but not least, here is a new perspective:
Would you prefer the Oshimo set to be in existence or not to be in existence. At least with it being there you have the choice of using it. It's not like you're being forced to use it.

I've noticed Vagabaka/Happida (and others) discourage exchanges of opinion which go back and forth, sidetracking the main purpose of the topic. Therefore, I'll do my part to prevent any such discouragement by refraining from further discussion of the set. As I honestly believe the new sets don't get enough credit for how good they are, I'll just accept that you absolutely adore it. Of course I still view Oshimo set as being quite inferior, and will not change my mind soon.

(If my withdrawl from the argument was given too drily, people are free to imagine that I quit arguing because I am currently occupied with trying to drop a Vulbis.)
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CunningFiend|2013-01-04 08:27:52
LaughinGhost|2013-01-03 14:21:07
...Last but not least, here is a new perspective:
Would you prefer the Oshimo set to be in existence or not to be in existence. At least with it being there you have the choice of using it. It's not like you're being forced to use it.

I've noticed Vagabaka/Happida (and others) discourage exchanges of opinion which go back and forth, sidetracking the main purpose of the topic. Therefore, I'll do my part to prevent any such discouragement by refraining from further discussion of the set. As I honestly believe the new sets don't get enough credit for how good they are, I'll just accept that you absolutely adore it. Of course I still view Oshimo set as being quite inferior, and will not change my mind soon.

(If my withdrawl from the argument was given too drily, people are free to imagine that I quit arguing because I am currently occupied with trying to drop a Vulbis.)
It is rather appreciated that this discourse has come to a close on my part.

While we do need to discuss things to a certain degree, there are limits to the depths with which we can go in such a general and short term thread.

It is notable to say however that some classes, such as the Zobal, can benefit from this set much more than others...however I don't feel this is really a bad thing.
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Here is a list of new bonuses that could appear on new equipment:

  • Summon damage - Increases damage dealt to summons, not by summons
  • %heals - Discussed here
  • Minimum range - +1 minimum range will decrease the minimum range required for a spell by 1, if the range is modifiable (e.g. atonement arrow can be lowered from 8~10 range to 7~10 range but perfidious boomerang cannot be reduced from 5~8 to 4~8)
  • Non-critical damage - Increases damage dealt by spells and weapons, but only if they do not critical hit
  • Bomb damage - Works similarly to trap damage, makes it fair for rogues
  • %bomb damage - Works similarly to %trap damage, makes it fair for rogues
  • Glyph damage - Works similarly to trap damage, makes it fair for fecas
  • %glyph damage - Works similarly to %trap damage, makes it fair for fecas
  • Poison damage - Increases the damage dealt by poisons
  • %poison damage - Increases the damage dealt by poisons
2.9 introduced non-amulet AP equipment that had a requirement that AP < 12 so that one could not reach 12AP if he or she uses said equipment.

Here are some ideas for new equipment:
  • Non-boots equipment that give MP and have a requirement that MP < 6 so that anyone who uses it cannot reach 6MP
  • More non-amulet AP equipment that are AP < 12 but for different level brackets. Perhaps if it is a lower level bracket make it AP < 11 or even AP < 10. Lower levels need access to more AP too!
  • Same goes for the MP equipment I suggested. Make it for many different level brackets.
  • I'd like to see more eniripsa-only wands, more sadida/feca/masqueraider-only staves, more enutrof-only shovels, more pandawa-only axes, more sram-only daggers, etc. Because at the moment the only weapons I can see that are class-specific are bows, swords and hammers.
 
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LaughinGhost|2013-01-06 02:44:09
Here is a list of new bonuses that could appear on new equipment:
  • Summon damage - Increases damage dealt to summons, not by summons
  • %heals - Discussed here
  • Minimum range - +1 minimum range will decrease the minimum range required for a spell by 1, if the range is modifiable (e.g. atonement arrow can be lowered from 8~10 range to 7~10 range but perfidious boomerang cannot be reduced from 5~8 to 4~8)
  • Non-critical damage - Increases damage dealt by spells and weapons, but only if they do not critical hit
  • Bomb damage - Works similarly to trap damage, makes it fair for rogues
  • %bomb damage - Works similarly to %trap damage, makes it fair for rogues
  • Glyph damage - Works similarly to trap damage, makes it fair for fecas
  • %glyph damage - Works similarly to %trap damage, makes it fair for fecas
  • Poison damage - Increases the damage dealt by poisons
  • %poison damage - Increases the damage dealt by poisons
2.9 introduced non-amulet AP equipment that had a requirement that AP < 12 so that one could not reach 12AP if he or she uses said equipment.

Here are some ideas for new equipment:
  • Non-boots equipment that give MP and have a requirement that MP < 6 so that anyone who uses it cannot reach 6MP
  • More non-amulet AP equipment that are AP < 12 but for different level brackets. Perhaps if it is a lower level bracket make it AP < 11 or even AP < 10. Lower levels need access to more AP too!
  • Same goes for the MP equipment I suggested. Make it for many different level brackets.
  • I'd like to see more eniripsa-only wands, more sadida/feca/masqueraider-only staves, more enutrof-only shovels, more pandawa-only axes, more sram-only daggers, etc. Because at the moment the only weapons I can see that are class-specific are bows, swords and hammers.

1) A simpler idea would be to change trap damage to something along the lines of secondary damage (so it'd apply to all forms of indirect damage, instead of just traps... and many not summons, that could be up for debate)

2) non boots that give mp and have < 6 requirement wouldn't be so useful, as 5mp is insanely easy already. but i guess it's not a BAD idea. the < 12ap requirement has had rather poor reception though. It seems more people prefered the way xa cloak works, preventing the OTHER stat. 12 ap shouldn't be extremly hard, but I do think it should have some sacrifices. It already has the one of not being allowed to use an Awmigawd band (and normally thus using a gelano) so other restrictions shoudl be in place.
as for the class-only weapons. god please no. There's a reason they don't make those any more. There are already too few selections for certain setups, let's get all builds covered before that idea comes up. I DO think though that every class should have an omni option of their primary weapon, as well as for each build, at least at endgame. Currently there is no str-int-cha staff (though all 3 staff classes are those builds) or even a pure cha staff. (the later is less impactful, since there is ougaammer and you CAN use mush mishish)

I like the minimum range idea, however, the min ranges on spells is intended to ballance them. Atonement arrow would be a horirble example to explain, but take slow down for one. 1 range on slow down would dramatically make it more powerful. Same goes for lower ranges on most of cra's spells. I say it's too dangerous.
however, non critical damage is a perfect one.....
as for the addition of non critical builds... theyre way too weak as it stands. a non critical build should not be much weaker than a critical reliant build in terms of damage from spells. at least not if that's what their set is based around (the -critical hit and critical damage equips should be MUCH more powerful than ones giving critical hits) However, critical hits should still have benifits, such as non damage spells, weapons (most of which are critical hit reliant) and spells with secondary effects (like destructive arrow)
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In regards to -min range:
This could be interesting under certain circumstances.
For example:
-min range will only work on spells with or without adjustable range.

Just as spells have adjustable range they could potentially have adjustable min range.

I don't think this would be implemented, however it does have potential.

For example, -min range gear could only work on spells with adjustable range.
Said gear would look like this:
X stat
Y stat
200 Vit
-1 min range
-2 range
bla
bla
bla

You could then, potentially, remove the 3 max to range and do things like:
X stat
Y stat
200 Vit
+3 min range
+2 range
bla
bla
bla

You might be able to get say +12 range, spells included, but you would have +8 min range to go along with that.

This means you have a superior ranged game, however if the opponent can close in, you are in serious trouble.

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I understand that MP < 6 as a requirement might not be that terrible but at endgame levels 6mp is quite a lot more desirable than 5mp (especially for PvPers).

Also, the MP < 6 and AP < 12 requirements can be lowered to MP < 5 and AP < 10 or AP < 11 for lower level equipment so that players can get 9AP (or 10AP) much more easily but cannot use said equipment to reach high amounts of AP (11 or 12)

Non-critical damage would obviously be much more powerful than critical damage and should not be given out generously, but that job is for the developers to do. Our job is to respond to Zenith threads and to make suggestions in the suggestion box. biggrin

Electricotter, I really like your idea in which a piece of equipment increases the minimum damage (bad) but also increases the maximum damage (good) but generously making for a character to have greater ranged play but worse close combat play. It will make for more diverse equipment, builds and gameplay (especially in PvP).

I do agree there should be more diverse choice of elemental weapons, especially in endgame, but this should not be a large priority. The game is constantly releasing new equipment of all levels with a high concentration on endgame equipment. And with the Frigost 3 expansion, I'm sure much more equipment will be added.

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Wouldn't non-crit damage just be a shitty version of +damage that doesn't affect crits...

What's the point?

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More diverse sets and more options for players to go with. It would promote the non-critical build. Before 2.9, if you had a turquoise dofus and were 1/2 on everything it made you a better player but with the 2.9 update, some builds work better if you don't get a critical hit, freeing up a dofus slot. +non-critical damage will simply promote such a build even more so.

It's not for everyone but works with some builds (rogues that use bombs a lot, for example; as bombs cannot critical hit)

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Ok. I need to express some thing about Equipments and Sets via the Zenith since I don't think the devs really will answer this directly. Please discuss.

1) Class sets: Why is it that if you are a Feca you can wear the Prince of Thieves (Cra class set) set. I mean the visible aspects of the sets (hats and capes) really look great, cool and "cute". If I am a Feca wearing the Indestructible Set, can I mimi or Living Item them to cover up the visible aspects of the set. In the same vein, can the artists at the studios make some sprites to give a similar appearance to another hat / cape(cloak, backpack) while restricting the class set to the class it was designed for? meaning putting Class = Feca on the Indestructible Set since the spells of the Feca class are altered by the set items. I am only using the Feca class set because I think that the hat for this set looks goofy and dorky. No offense intended to the Ankama Studio artists who design the sets.

2) Is it all possible / feasible / practical to have the poor Enus, Iops, Sacs, Ecas, etc to have actual sprites for their feet when they are wearing specific boots or slippers. My Enu always has his toes sticking out of his leg warmers or ankle wraps when he is running around Frigost. Don't you think someone that old would get frostbite (not the Xelor spell but a medical condition from cold temperatures) running around on the snow and ice? I mean I guess the Sacs don't mind running around barefoot all the time because they love the pain. I love the fact that my Feca (TailsHornsHalo) always has a stout pair of boots showing. Wouldn't it be nice if we are wearing geta or some sort of Living item boots, that other players / gamers could see something on my avatar in game? Why can we only see Hats and Capes?

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Since this thread seems to be quite interesting, I'll share my thoughts as well.

I DO think that the 190-200 sets are getting too much attention right now. It is true that most of the game does focus on the highest levels, since players and their characters improve all the time, but that does not mean that the lower level sets should be neglected. I think a really large number of the

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Str/int/agi set don't exist untill endgame, and in my personal opinion, they're quite bad.

Really waiting for that +CH damage dofus.

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One thing that should be mentioned...older sets, like bworker berserker/gladiator, ougaa, fungus sets and so on are obsolete, at this point. They should be updated to be at least somewhat relevant.

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vagabaka|2012-12-05 03:08:26
In November's voting thread, DarkReaperSaika suggested talking about sets and received the most votes (12):
DarkReaperSaika|2012-11-10 06:18:50
We need a discussion on sets badly. We are lacking terribly on a str/agi set around 170's. I'm sure there are other builds that needs good choices at every level. Preferably would like some more sets with AP.

The question of what equipment to use is ever on our mind. This does not change even for many end-game players. Frigost and the 2.6 update has introduced many new pieces of equipment, and the upcoming 2.9 update will bring more, but as DarkReaperSaika said, the choice of equipment in many areas are still lacking.

Considering the ongoing interest of our community on this sort of topic, we have decided to expand it to include the whole array of sets, and not simply focusing on a specific level bracket. With that in mind, we have prepared some questions to serve as a guide. For the purpose of facilitation, we would like to agree on the following level brackets to be used during the discussion:

0 - 50 - 70 - 90 - 120 - 140 - 170 - 190 - 200

Background
Class, level brackets, build.
(feel free to include alts, if you multi account)

I'm a: Level 81 Feca Agility-Lock-Glyph build (main), level 60 Cra Int Support build (alt), level 60 Hupper Agility Elemental Drain build (alt)

Questions
• What level bracket(s) do you feel is lacking in equipment choice?

50-90 Only viable choices are Gobball, Toady, Prespic. Yes these items are below level 50. However, those are the only viable choices for a new player who doesn't want to server jump or buy from the Emporium.

I play in Aermyne server. Market is small and many items are not made. However, I was on Rushu for a short time and noticed similar manufacturing practices. Equipment between level 25 and 100 are not popular for selling or making. My guess is because of the fact that low level item creation requires high level ingredients that high level characters aren't going to waste on a low level item. Example - Arc de Triomphe is 5 kk. The ingredients cost almost as much as the selling price. Part of the ingredient list for it is Cherry Wood (lvl 120) and Gold (lvl 160). The item is only good if you are already a high level character with other high level professions and are using the recipe to level up the Carver profession. Otherwise its utterly worthless to make. The problem is that most equipment is like that. Below level 100, equipment is either cost prohibitive or time prohibitive to the point that they are not worth making. Which is probably why I see most people wearing either the Precipic set or the Gobball set. Precipic for leaching and Gobball set for playing the grind.
vagabaka|2012-12-05 03:08:26


• As far as equipment choice goes, do you think that the level bracket 190 - 200 is getting too much attention compared to other level brackets? Is this a good or bad thing? Why?

Can't comment as I haven't gotten that far in the game.

• What do you think should be available in highest quantities: big sets (5+ items) with set bonus, small sets (3 items), or standalone equipment?

That's a loaded question. They should all be available in high quantities. However, if you're looking for some kind of balance you'll need to start with the recipes for equipment creation, not the equipment itself.

• There are sets that provide significant bonuses in only one element (such as Otomai and Black Rat Set), two (Royal Mastogob, Fuji Snowfoux), three (Celestial Bearbarian), or four (Dreggon). Some sets focus on supportive stats (Minotoror, Lethaline). In which of these categories would you like to see more new sets?

Omni-elemental

• Updates since Frigost have introduced several sets and standalone equipment which provide AP/MP bonus, allowing players to get these bonuses with fewer sacrifices than before. Do you think this is a good change?

Not qualified to comment

• Do you think equipment from old content are becoming obsolete due to the introduction of new equipment? Is this a problem that developer should avoid when designing new equipment, or do you think newly released equipment should be more powerful than old ones to attract player interest?

If the strength of monsters doesn't change and the old way of doing things still works, then new equipment should be different not more powerful. More powerful equipment can break the game or lead to a redesign of monster difficulty or a redesign of combat mechanics. However, if new updates have content that require stronger equipment, then yes MAKE the new equipment more powerful.

• Based on feedback we have gathered so far, most players who have tested or read about 2.9 equipment are unsatisfied, because they do not provide adequate bonus to compensate for their malus. What is your opinion on this? Do you think the direction of designing new equipment with bonus and malus is a good one?

Not qualified to comment.


• Set design is a complicated manner. Without going into too much detail, what suggestions do you have in terms of equipment design, if any?

0. To increase variation, make valuable stand alone equipment that has a unique effect. Eg. Boots that negate aggro on a map. Boots that increase your map movement speed. A pick-axe that increases ore gathering. An amulet that increases profession XP. A ring that increases the speed of resource renewal or increases the speed of resource gathering. A a real cloak of invisibility. A cloak to bypass Bonta/Brakmar grudge. A cloak to bypass Alliance borders. There's a lot of interesting non-combat effects that can be made.
1. Stand alone equipment with effects that are class dependant. It would make for interesting PvP and PvM. Like Feca with no mimimum range for Bubble spell. It doesn't have to be a game breaking effect, though.
2. Have equipment that adds spell points for a class.
3. Have equipment that adds spell points for an element type.
4. Have equipment that adds spell points for a certain spell.
5. Have equipment that on creation has random to semi-random stats and/or effects.
6.

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Lynn-Reiginleif|2014-11-13 04:37:11
One thing that should be mentioned...older sets, like bworker berserker/gladiator, ougaa, fungus sets and so on are obsolete, at this point. They should be updated to be at least somewhat relevant.
finally someone talks about this. there are so many sets that are just good for nothing now like the aermyne set . a set that was built for vit osas specifically i think; correct me if im wrong. anyway there are a few equipments that just fell out of grace because of updates etc. there was a time when lvl 150/170 sets were very important in the game and now they're just obsolete. it would be nice seeing ankama "fixing" this
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I'd like to see more sets that have more than 3 pieces. Most of the three piece sets don't match up with each other anyway (can't wear them both at the same time), so what is the point in those?

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The point of 3 piece sets is the new trophies that require 2 pieces or less of equipment. Also, I think most bielemental combinations have 3 piece sets that match with others.

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