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Exchange for Characteristics Scrolls - Topic of the Month (May)

By SilentRevenge - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - May 13, 2013, 10:46:31
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Score : 1213

I don't believe the system needs to be changed (again), it works fine the way it's now. I've been playing this game since the time when players had to give recources to a smith (or a jeweller, in my case) without any guarantee that the craftsman wouldn't disappear, and no book to check on craftsmen's profession level other than his word.
Back then, it was gruesome to collect mats for those scrolls... I even remember building a little Flash app, which I called "Miraculix and Arriadna's Scroll calculator", just to get an idea on the numbers of mats that had to be farmed, for the lack of a better word.

My penny to the Devs: it works! Work on other things; this entire topic is a no-brainer.

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Score : 3543
DragonmasterLance|2013-05-17 10:00:22
I also don't know why people keep mentioning Skill Point Scrolls,Skill Point Scrolls are not Characteristic Scrolls.
Its bad enough I lose out on some aspects of PvM for Pvp,I don't want to lose the purpose of my suggestion to PvP as well.

Also,as fair as the Dungeon Scroll drops sounds,it also means people who cannot do those high end dungeons miss out.

Skill point scrolls are obtainable with doploon and kolossokens. They used to be obtainable with diamonds, but that feature was removed.
Characteristic point scrolls are obtainable with doploons and dragoturkeys. They used to be obtainable with resources, but that feature was removed.
- spot any similarities?

Also, High level people are still able to do low level dungeons. Having to do low level dungeons is no worse than having to kill 600 boars. Also, there's nothing stopping the scrolls from being droppable from the high level dungeons.
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Score : 6477

That was partially my point.

If a low level dungy can drop a great or powerful, you will see high level characters farming low level dungies, which is not desirable.

It would be acceptable to me if each dungeon had 1-2 possible scroll drops, with the power of a scroll dependent on dungy level.

In terms of bots turning to professions, I started a lumberjack recently and I am having no more difficult of a time than lumberjack ever has been.

(I had one years ago but got rid of it.)

This topic is not intended for spell scrolls.

We aren't discouraging it, but we don't encourage it either.

I am only bringing it up because it was debated.

If the thread becomes problematic due to spell scroll discussion it will be curtailed.
However, this thread isn't really going anywhere as of now anyways.

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Score : 13424
DragonmasterLance|2013-05-17 10:00:22
My argument in terms of the lower level mats is when Ankama took away that specific use for resources, all the bots went straight to profession resources instead,making it almost impossible for people to gather resources such as Wood,Ore,Cereals and Flowers in order to level up their professions or to help friends and guildies out.

It also cut off a viable source of income for newer players who don't have level 100 professions or friends to help them out which stopped a majority of newcomers to servers like Rushu.
Resource prices dropped to abysmal amounts,Scroll costs skyrocketed and as far as I'm aware its also destroying Profession Resource Markets.

People are also starting to bot dragoturkey breeding in order to mass produce scrolls easily.
The old system was fine,resource prices were fine,it helped out lower leveled players,it helped higher level players,it helped people with alts,it stopped bots ruining gathering professions...there was absolutely no reason to change that system whatsoever.
But what has been done has been done,one can only hope Ankama sees the problems taking away that system has caused and at least do something to restore balance.

And as for "You have your alts,you want to scroll your alts" I have no alts,not till my main is all sorted and I find my reason to keep playing Dofus.

I also don't know why people keep mentioning Skill Point Scrolls,Skill Point Scrolls are not Characteristic Scrolls.
Its bad enough I lose out on some aspects of PvM for Pvp,I don't want to lose the purpose of my suggestion to PvP as well.

Also,as fair as the Dungeon Scroll drops sounds,it also means people who cannot do those high end dungeons miss out.
There is a whole other thread dedicated to bots, though i should mention that if they removed the spam bot issue, there would be no advertising for the kama sites, and therefore, no profitability for the bots. Yet as it stands, low level players do struggle more to make money now that the scroll exchange is gone.

As for whether or not spell point scrolls are indeed characteristic scrolls, just look at which subset of scroll they are in the market.

It takes 15 000 kolossokens to fully scroll 1 spell. thats also directly competeing with the pebble demand for trophies, and now especially frig gear.
The demand for kolossokens is too high compared to the amount available.
Is there a way that the reward for kolossium could be increased substatially, or the costs of these items reduced? that would solve the (or at least patch) the spell point problem.

As for characteristic scrolls, low level characters, arguably the ones the get the most out of scrolling, have the hardest time getting scrolls with the way the dopple reward tiers work. While I agree that they should not get as much as a higher level player, why not increase the amount at all tiers to increase the availability of scrolls?
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Score : 6477

There really isn't a spell scroll problem firstly.

They are intended to be hard to get.
Scrolling your spells (and stats for that matter) is not something that should be automatic or that easy.

I realize that some builds/classes 'need' more sp and stat scrolling, however that is not intended for a starting player.

Once you have been playing for a while and you get yourself to a good place, you can then start to amount scrolls for your current or an additional character.

To address lower level characters getting more, this isn't really a good idea.

More so at lower levels, there are some characters that are quite powerful/broken in terms of dopples and/or Kolo.

I realize you suggested an increase in dopploons only, but I want to address a Kolo reward increase as well, as a preemptive measure.

By increasing the rewards one can easily make a low level alt, invest a few million kamas, and have an easy scroll farmer.

This is less an issue if you have to advance your character to 180+ for this to be efficient (dopple wise), where as Kolo is easily exploitable with tricked out low level alts.

For the time being an increase in doploons means an increase in Kolocoins.

Lastly, having to choose between pebbles or scrolls is not only fair but a legitimate thing.
Again, we are not entitled to all spells being lvl 5/6.
Gear is more essential than extra spell points over all.
After that, one can then worry about scrolling spells.

The basics come first.

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Score : 13424
Electricotter|2013-05-17 22:56:42
There really isn't a spell scroll problem firstly.

They are intended to be hard to get.
Scrolling your spells (and stats for that matter) is not something that should be automatic or that easy.

I realize that some builds/classes 'need' more sp and stat scrolling, however that is not intended for a starting player.

Once you have been playing for a while and you get yourself to a good place, you can then start to amount scrolls for your current or an additional character.

To address lower level characters getting more, this isn't really a good idea.

More so at lower levels, there are some characters that are quite powerful/broken in terms of dopples and/or Kolo.

I realize you suggested an increase in dopploons only, but I want to address a Kolo reward increase as well, as a preemptive measure.

By increasing the rewards one can easily make a low level alt, invest a few million kamas, and have an easy scroll farmer.

This is less an issue if you have to advance your character to 180+ for this to be efficient (dopple wise), where as Kolo is easily exploitable with tricked out low level alts.

For the time being an increase in doploons means an increase in Kolocoins.

Lastly, having to choose between pebbles or scrolls is not only fair but a legitimate thing.
Again, we are not entitled to all spells being lvl 5/6.
Gear is more essential than extra spell points over all.
After that, one can then worry about scrolling spells.

The basics come first.

1. So maybe then these spell intensive classes should have a warning when making them then? I mean, a starting player would be unaware of this and by your own confession, be at a disadvantage for it.

2. I have been playing for a while, but not everyone can spend 15 hours a day playing dofus to get scrolls.

3. Maybe we aren't entitled to it, but because of the manner in which removing the diamond exchange (and to a lesser extent the scroll exchange) was dealt with (leaving the extra spellpoints and scrolls in circulation rather then just resetting everyone's spells and spell points) There is a huge divide of power between players who had already scrolled their spells and those who had not. In addition, because of this divide, the already disadvantaged players have a harder time winning in the kolossium than their more fortunate counterparts. I can get at most 200 tokens a day.
That's on a sunday, when the servers are active enough and i actually can spend more than a few hours playing to get enough kolo fights to win 6-7 matches. (that's a minimum of 4 hours, though more towards 5)

That is still 75 days to scroll just one spell; and that's assuming I don't need the pebbles for anything else. If I had time to also do dopples that adds in another source, but only if I'm actually done scrolling and can spend another hour on top of the kolossium. (I haven't finished scrolling stats yet so that's not an option)

Like it or not, because of the way the transition of the method of scroll acquisition was handled, there is a problem.
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Score : 1809

In regard to Kolossoken, Sylfaen stated this week that the June Update (2.13, the GvG update) will also carry a significant increase to the Kolossoken reward when you win a fight. The daily reward will remain the same, though.

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Score : 2952
Muniamx|2013-05-18 02:45:08
In regard to Kolossoken, Sylfaen stated this week that the June Update (2.13, the GvG update) will also carry a significant increase to the Kolossoken reward when you win a fight. The daily reward will remain the same, though.
Lovely,more PvP benefits,it's bad enough pvpers get to make large amounts of cash from pvmers who do not wish to pvp because their gear requires those stupid Sparkling Pebbles.

Whether its trading doploons which could be used to scroll or used to buy Mahogany Pebbles to make gear you would still need to make another character for doploons just to get by.
I wish Ankama would stop trying to force people to pvp, we should have a choice in the matter.

And before anyone says "You do have a choice", I need something like 15 of those blasted pebbles for my set and I cannot pvp for the life of me,nor do I wish to pvp because of all the arrogant and rude elitists I encounter in Kolossium.
And the prices of said pebbles are about 800~900kk EACH 
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Score : 4519

This topic is about improvement of the current ways to obtain characteristic scrolls. We have so far tolerated some posts that also mentioned spell point scrolls, but if you have input that's more about spell point scrolls than the topic at hand, please use our thread on spell point scrolls.

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Score : 3543

My biggest problem with characteristic scrolls is how monotonous they are to get. They've always been this way.

Okay, I can kill 10000 Mush Mush for the scroll mats, but this isn't fun in the least. They offer no challenge to me and they're not fun to kill.

My other alternative? Breeding. The problem with this is that it's a slow process that requires a lot of investment as well as a paddock (Which are going for about 3mk minimum on Rosal). Not something that I can just get into.

My last alternative? Dopples. This is the same problem as Mush Mush. I don't want to do exactly the same thing for 90 days. It's not challenging, and after about the first day, they're just not fun to kill.

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Score : 6477
kakisuka|2013-05-18 16:21:42
My biggest problem with characteristic scrolls is how monotonous they are to get. They've always been this way.

Okay, I can kill 10000 Mush Mush for the scroll mats, but this isn't fun in the least. They offer no challenge to me and they're not fun to kill.

My other alternative? Breeding. The problem with this is that it's a slow process that requires a lot of investment as well as a paddock (Which are going for about 3mk minimum on Rosal). Not something that I can just get into.

My last alternative? Dopples. This is the same problem as Mush Mush. I don't want to do exactly the same thing for 90 days. It's not challenging, and after about the first day, they're just not fun to kill.
At least Dopples do offer achievements and worthwhile xp though.
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Score : 1115
kakisuka|2013-05-18 16:21:42

My other alternative? Breeding. The problem with this is that it's a slow process that requires a lot of investment as well as a paddock (Which are going for about 3mk minimum on Rosal). Not something that I can just get into.

For the record public paddocks are free and you can easily start breeding there. Yes it's slow but when you're not investing a lot due to the use of a free paddock the payoff is worth it.
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Score : 2952
kakisuka|2013-05-18 16:21:42
My biggest problem with characteristic scrolls is how monotonous they are to get. They've always been this way.

Okay, I can kill 10000 Mush Mush for the scroll mats, but this isn't fun in the least. They offer no challenge to me and they're not fun to kill.

My other alternative? Breeding. The problem with this is that it's a slow process that requires a lot of investment as well as a paddock (Which are going for about 3mk minimum on Rosal). Not something that I can just get into.

My last alternative? Dopples. This is the same problem as Mush Mush. I don't want to do exactly the same thing for 90 days. It's not challenging, and after about the first day, they're just not fun to kill.
Indeed,none of the ways to obtain scrolls,either characteristic or spell points are fun, then again, I thrive on boring things,hence why i spend most of my time (Which i should be spending making money in order to complete my Nomarow set) attempting to max every profession cept Hunter and Butcher.

But Ankama can't make resource gathering,achievement hunting or profession work fun,it's impossible for them to provide fun things for us.
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Score : 1813
Nerd-Tease|2013-05-13 12:54:18
To be honest, the current way of getting characteristic scrolls is fine. Spell point scrolls on the other hand, take too long to acquire in relation to how many are needed.

It takes 4 days of dopples for 1 scroll. so about 2 months to scroll 1 spell for those who are not PvP inclined. This is in no way a feasable manner to handle this.

And on a server like the one I play on (Zato,) there isn't enough kolossium activity to fully support both the increased need for pebbles with changed frigost recipes and many new trophies as well as spell points.

The people that have a high win:loss ratio (kolossium), are the ones that have their spells scrolled. Yet the only way to feasibly get them, is through the very system that favors those who already have the reward.

I'm not asking for the diamond exchange back, but maybe a repeatable quest (Daily) that has a guaranteed spell point scroll reward. (With a minimum level and possibly other measures to prevent alt cycling)

Maybe I'm rambling after 2 days of no sleep, but hopefully I got the point across well enough.
I fully agree with this.

The characteristic scrolls are fine as they are, but the spell point scrolls are to expensive. Remove the ability to get spell point scrolls from kolosium and add a new feature. Lets say (just an idea) a new dopple temple where the player needs to fight 8 (different) dopples at once. When completed the character gains an super doploon.

This doploon can be traded for xxx doploons (acording to character level), xxx kamas, xxx exp, scrolls (including spell point scroll), special spells or something like that.
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Score : 647

I personally much preferred the old method of characteristic scroll exchanges. Although I don't mind the dopples much anymore, since the buff to Bats Eye made the Sram dopple at least possible for me to beat. What I'm curious about is why it has to be either one or the other. Why can't we have both?

I also detest and despise the whole pebble system for scrolls, equips, and everything else, but that's a different topic.

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Score : 64

I like the fact of being able to trade mats in for scrolls. It always gave me something to do, because it was time consuming. Instead now I'm bored out of my mind waiting on a kolo match after I've finished dopples. So i agree, why not have both?

--And not to mention, that I've just spent the last 3 days collecting mats to trade in for scrolls, and to my surprise i couldn't trade them in. I was a bit disappointed. i guess that's what happens when you quit for a year.--

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Score : 1216

I would suggest making a dopple "gym", with the trainers and their respective dopples all in one room, and you can pick and choose which you want to fight without having to run around. You could even expand it to allow players to kill multiple dopples at a time (still only one account at a time though), so to speed up the process.

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Score : 1226
polopin|2013-06-13 01:46:03
I would suggest making a dopple "gym", with the trainers and their respective dopples all in one room, and you can pick and choose which you want to fight without having to run around. You could even expand it to allow players to kill multiple dopples at a time (still only one account at a time though), so to speed up the process.
Just yes. I love this idea.
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I think there needs to be a method that gives you the option to grind indefinitely for scrolls because having a daily quest (or in the case of mounts, a time based resource) means that players who are keen on focusing on this aspect of their character, particularly if they are attempting to scroll an alt, are forced to wait and have a very specific schedule that they must adhere to. This doesn't in any way increase subscriptions, it just reduces the agency that players have in the game which in my case has been something that has seriously hindered my desire to resubscribe. Allow f2ps to gain scrolls in someway, but make them bind to character or account so that bots cannot use this method to tank the market. And, given that the best scroll markets are in p2p areas anyway there is no risk that it will strongly affect prices, especially if it is a more labour intensive method than simply buying the scrolls. This also means that for those of us who can't afford to immediately resubscribe, we don't lose pace with the game or interest in our characters. The introduction of Ogrines has made it clear that Ankama wants to allow players to enjoy the full Dofus experience even if they can't afford it, but bots have well and truly tanked that market, making it completely unfeasible for most people.
Forcing players into more daily quests, more pvp for which they may not be interested or equipped, or more group activities takes away agency and kills enjoyment, and is highly contradictory to the spirit of an MMORPG.

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