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2.21 Spoiler - Taken from the French Official Forums

By Makutu - SUBSCRIBER - May 28, 2014, 17:05:42
Reactions 149
Score : 4477
Neosoul|2014-06-17 08:14:05
I believe, like so many others, you have missed the point. Death in a battle is already your penalty due to either a tactical mistake or an inefficient strategy. To be able to revive an ally, regardless of the minus effects, is a reward to the class. " To soften the blow of having one of your allies die? " no, use some thought to adjust your team or tactics to improve skill level in battle.
I believe you have missed my point. When the drawbacks of a spell outweigh the benefits in almost every relevant situation, the spell ceases to be functional, and is certainly a far cry from being a reward.

Yes, the function of Spiritual Leash is to soften the blow of having one of your allies die. If you don't believe that to be the case, please enlighten me as to what you believe the spell's purpose is.

Neosoul|2014-06-17 11:32:23
.......... huhhh. Your view is was not shared hence the update. Let me provide insight to your " example " : Of course teams are going to die until they find an effective strategy, the point of this game is to challenge players to use tactical strategy to be successful. If you have a concern that you are " sacrificing energy " because you haven't figured out how to beat some aspect of the game then, with all due respect, you ( or others that share your view ) may want to find a more subtable game that involves less thought process and may be more enjoyable for you. Playing the content, whether new or old, expands your experience regards if you continue to die in battle or not. If you find there is a problem playing with people of little to no experience in that content; either take the time to find experienced players knowledgable of the content, wait till knowledge of the content is more well known by others, or don't bother and find something else to do...

Trying hard to be fair after reading my posts: makes no sense. Fair of what exactly? The update is in place which suggests your views are not widely shared. Good luck with the update HatedOne...
With all due respect, qualifying insults with the phrase "with all due respect" does not change the nature of the comment made.

Many of the arguments that people seem to be making in defense of this nerf seems to be that if you need to use leash in the fight, you're doing something wrong, you're not playing "tactically." So this nerf to leash is justified because the spell shouldn't be used in the first place? Yup, that makes perfect sense. Honestly, if that's the case why is the spell an option in the first place? As I've said before, remove it and replace it with something useful.

I will say that I have yet to attempt Frig 3 so I have no experience when it comes to using my osa in those dungeons. However, in the past, when my team mate and I were still levelling our team there were certain fights where we did rely on leash. Often times, those fights were in dungeons above our level range and the victories were hard earned ones. Having a viable "just incase something goes wrong" option is very much a part of planning and strategizing. If you're going to be depending on leash, you would be taking several other factors into consideration as well, and of course you had to make sure your osa didn't die.

Now I will be the first to acknowledge that I am by no means the most tactical or best player out there, so when I say using this new leash will only serve to get the rest of my team killed, it maybe because I am using it without proper tactics and strategy. So I want to know, in what situations is using the new leash viable? In fights that are so easy that you shouldn't have needed to use it in the first place? Or simply to help a dead ally save some bread at the end of the fight?

Also just because the update is in place, it does not mean that the views disagreeing with said update are not widely shared. I suppose the best people to answer that would be the Zenith since they have been the ones monitoring the community's feedback regarding the issue. I will say that I am a bit disappointed by the questions posed to Lichen. I believe that our community raised some interesting points in this discussion but the majority of our concerns are not really encompassed in the questions, and if they were, they weren't fleshed out enough to be meaningful...
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BluSkies|2014-06-17 14:03:32
I will say that I am a bit disappointed by the questions posed to Lichen. I believe that our community raised some interesting points in this discussion but the majority of our concerns are not really encompassed in the questions, and if they were, they weren't fleshed out enough to be meaningful...

I agree with you: members of our community have raised very interesting points. And I can assure you they will find their way to the devs. But since your message sounded like you felt this was it, I would like to clarify a few points:
  • This was the first time Lichen answered any questions raised by players relating to the 2.21 update, both publicly and privately (forums wise). He picked those points, but there are many more outstanding. I genuinely doubt this will be the end of it. Let's see what happens once we submit our feedback to them. Don't be disappointed just yet.
  • Our community hasn't been ignored. Gathering the feedback of our community, across different communication forms - forums, ankabox, test server, home server - takes some time. We are still in the process of filtering through what we have thus far. A thread will be created soon, focusing on the impact the 2.21 has had on the Osa class, summarizing what was said so far, with questions to gather more qualitative feedback.
You raise a concern that we share in the team, and it is the main focus of everything we do: provide feedback focused around what the devs deem important and meaningful enough to address. It works, but it requires well developed arguments, whether it is to explain why a particular game mechanic/spell change isn't working out, but also what could possibly work instead, keeping in mind the direction the devs are taking. And that requires a little bit more time. smile

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Ah thank you for that post wub It is true that upon reading those questions and answers (combined with the various issues with rollout of this update) I was feeling really disappointed but I am a simple person and my faith has been restored thanks to your post happy

I realize that the task set before the zenith is a time consuming one and that you are all volunteers with many other responsibilities so my apologies for my impatience. I look forward to seeing the feedback thread. Keep up the good work you guys are doing and please know that it is appreciated.

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No insult was given Bluskies, you simply choose to disagree because you are disappointed with update and dismissed my points as an insult.

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vagabaka|2014-05-31 05:56:21
Kotengu|2014-05-31 05:44:34

In the beginning, Osamodas buffs and Animal Healing didn't affect players at all, and they had no Spiritual Leash. These abilities were added, and later on they became AoE buffs. In a more recent update, the buffs lost their AoE and got range restrictions, but became more potent. I do think Osamodas need some type of improvement, for example the chance build is extremely lacking, and hurt by this change even though it appears to be targeted at vitality builds, and summon AI and survivability are major handicaps in PvM. However, I'm not sure that further improving Osamodas' player buffs is the right thing to do.
What Osa's need is: 1). Remove all summons, 2). Destroy every file ever created on the Osa, 3). Make a new class to replaced the darn thing. Just kidding, but seriously.

The only improvement osas have had in a long time was the buff to their support spells to increase summon's damage and survival. When ever i got into a kolo fight, or got invited to a dungeon I was asked one single question, is your Leash lv 6? So yes osas are based on a single spell. Now that spell is a bad thing to use. I wont even bother on giving any feedback because time and time again we have seen that when the DEV announce a change, that change is ABSOLUTE. So fellow osa's if you don't like the changes you are better off forgetting the spell right now and learn how to play without it. If you made the alt just to use leash, get a Eni or any other class that can do one of the many not so good things the osa can do and replace them.

Just in case my main was a lv 199 int osa, and i stooped playing dofus until there is a new advancement on Osas. By the looks of I will have to wait a few more year.

Makutu|2014-06-03 18:21:05
This morning's post from Sylfaen:
(Once again, apologies for any typos or grammar related mistakes)

Before, when the Osamodas lost an ally, he did not have to think: he revived (unless a more valuable ally was also in trouble, then the leash would be kept in order to revive that character later).
With this change, the Osamodas will have to think: can I resurrect him now or would it be best to wait until the situation is more advantageous?

But more importantly, with this resistance malus applied to the whole team, opponents will also have an important choice to make.
Will it be better to quickly kill the revived foe, who is potentially a key character to that team's strategy (to the point of having been revived), before it gets healed, and yet removing the resistance malus applied to the other characters by doing so? Or is it better to leave him be, at the risk of putting oneself in danger, to take advantage of the resistance malus in order to attack a tougher character?

It would be great to put this thinking process into the AI and see what the AI decides, I know the outcome and I have stopped playing for about 1 year already.

The osa revives a character and the next following turns possibly before that one is done, everyone will rush the osa and kill him leaving the easy single character left for dead. The best use I see for leash is to Troll your team mates. Once again the DEVs demonstrate that this was a PvP related nerf, they should really consider but really really consider giving PvP related events their own spell system. That would be easy when a character enters a PvP event it gets the PvPer state hence changing the spells. This way you have the 2 communities separated from one and another.

I love my Osa and that is the only thing keeping me from deleting my account but when ever i start playing i just loose all motivation because no matter how much i tried to get a invite no one would even bother.
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It's not true the only buff Osas have ever gotten was to their buffs. In fact, the last major rejigger of the class (in 2.10) was received badly, due to all their buffs becoming single-target rather than AoE (even though the values of those buffs were increased). That same update gave significant buffs to their summons (Tofu got increased damage and agility steal, Gobball got 40% more hit points, Prespic got 100% more hit points, Boar got increased damage and +pushback damage, the Wyrm got increased damage and buff effects, and all summons got lowered AP costs, shortened cooldown, and longer summoning range)

It wasn't enough. They need more.

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It wasn't enough because all these buffs to the summons still don't make them appeling to use. They still have the crappy AI and still have quite low hp.

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Notable points:
  • Summons die too fast vs high level monsters, making the bonuses they give such as %res insignificant.
  • The majority of the summons have a low damage output. Damage over time vs ap spent cannot be considered seriously because of the above. Therefore, to large extent, summons are meat-shields intended to soak up some damage for a turn or two.
  • Osas have an ap expensive healing spell best used to support an existing healer. Using a feca or masq for shields is more efficient .
  • Osas are supposed to get the summons between the enemy and the caster, not fight at close quarters with crackler punch. For this reason, an Osa cannot truly be considered a damager.

To be able to revive an ally, regardless of the minus effects, is a reward to the class.
This is true, leash changed the nature of many kolos - forcing players to focus on the Osa first. It also reduced the impact of death in pvm.

use some thought to adjust your team
This is also true in that the Osa should be removed from the team if it is not required for unbewitch or buffing.

With the new update, the class has lost one of the few distinct advantages it had. The primary purpose of the class now is to buff the Ecas, Iops or Sram in the team. Unfortunately, as it stands, this is something Osas will have to accept or alternatively, move on to a different class.
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Score : 213

^ this. Unfortunately, though, being buff bots is NOT our intended purpose. It just happens to -usually- be the only realistically-productive option we have in most situations. Frankly, it's not very interesting or fun to be giving all of the glory to your teammates, when your summons are meant to be your specialty. Osamodas contribute next to nothing to most PvMs other than meager support which can be outdone by any other class. Even an Eniripsa at least can heal better AND damage better than an Osamodas can.

Also though, side-note, leash didn't 'change the nature' of any kolos, it was already an available spell from day one of kolosseum. Other than a global recast interval and an unhealable state for two turns, it has received no changes since becoming part of the Osamodas spellbook.

I would also like to add that I believe the majority are in agreement that the spell could use some nerfing, or changes in general. What we mostly are disagreeing on is whether or not the current changes are excessive, and how to better adjust the spell for the sake of balance. Most Osamodas feel it's practically all we have left as far as a specialty go-to ability that is in demand; we mostly feel that Osamodas needs some sort of core revision, with this in effect, as our overall desirability in nearly any group situation has plummeted and is easily overshadowed by nearly any other given class.

We want to have a niche again, and 'buff monkey' is not and should not be it! We are meant to be SUMMONERS, not walking power-ups.

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Also though, side-note, leash didn't 'change the nature' of any kolos, it was already an available spell from day one of kolosseum.
Oh, I wasn't referring to the timeline of the spell changing in relation to kolo, but rather how big an impact It made on Kolo fights before the nerf. Killing the Osa was the main priority, which in many cases prevented a lot of other strategies from coming into play. This changes the nature of the Kolo, making it less interesting and more predictable.

I would also like to add that I believe the majority are in agreement that the spell could use some nerfing, or changes in general.

^ this. The nerf or removal of this spell was definitely necessary in the long term, but Osas really needed some boosts to compensate for it.
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