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So how are your eliotropes looking so far?

By evdadlye - SUBSCRIBER - January 15, 2015, 15:25:16

Just wondering about your builds. I really enjoy the agi builds mobility but since I havent had time to play and I am still under level 100 I switched to int for the mean time. Tell me what you guys think about the class so far.

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Hi,

I had an int eliotrope too, but I didnt really enjoy it, is saw some aggi eliotropes and they hit pretty nice wink 

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Score : 42

I personally have fallen in love with this class since the first time I played it. I'm a 199 Agility Eliotrope on Zatoishwan and my personal opinion about the builds is that there really is no best build. Each build has it's pros and cons like any other class but I do feel like out of all four of the builds Strength lacks the most in comparison. The spells are awkward to use at times and it can really mess with your game play. Agility has the advantage of having the second highest base damage spell in it's class (Ridicule) along with being able to move around freely most of the time which really helps with placing portals. Intelligence has the highest base damage spell in it's class (Parasite) and has a reliable 4 AP spell that hits hard and has modifiable range. Chance has an absolutely amazing 3 AP spell that hits really hard and also has a 4 AP spell that is non line of sight which definitely helps in some situations. Last and kind of least would be Strength as I stated earlier I find the Strength spells to be a bit awkward to use at times. But it does have one saving grace, Shock which is a 3 AP spell that has a 1 cell wide area of effect but a free cell in the middle this spell pulls it's target one cell towards the middle. I personally find Shock an amazingly useful spell that can be used in any build, for example if you happen to be 1 mp away from hitting an enemy through a portal and still have plenty of AP then you can use Shock to pull the enemy to where you can hit them with your main spells. Another note for playing this class would be always keep your portals as far away from each other as you can as your spells will do more damage the farther apart they are and I find it easier to use them. I hope this helped and I apologize for rambling on a bit. ^^" Hope you enjoy your Eliotrope and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

-Zero

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Score : 6096

My opinions, as someone that beta tested the class extensively so I could have a full tutorial on how to build your eliotrope properly at launch:

Strength is definitely the worse one. It's not horrid, and it has a ton of utility going on with every spell...but the damage is bad, the range is not very good, and you don't need to have strength, or even level the spells up, to have the utility. In hybrid builds, it pairs up with agility well enough, but it generally doesn't add enough to the build to justify being hybrid.

Chance is nice. Good damage, good range, some utility. The non LoS spell can be pretty nice in many situations. As a hybrid, it goes well with agility for map manipulation, and it blends well with intelligence.

Intelligence is pure and simple damage dealing. No mysteries, just hit stuff. It has a pretty nice AoE and a pretty nice ranged spell. It doesn't have much utility going on, and it isn't complex to use at all, which might be a turn off...but sometimes, with how convoluted the portals can be, having a simple and practical way of hitting stuff is good. Intelligence is a nice build that you can rely on when you need fast results. As a hybrid, it adds a lot of damage, and that can be good when you can't mess around too much. It's a reliable build.

Agility is pretty much the best build. Damage, utility, mobility, it has it all. As a hybrid, it goes well with any build, but in particular, agi/int has EVERYTHING an eliotrope can do. Even omni elios are not better than agi/int elios in any way. As I said, you don't need chance or strength or even to level up most of the spells for the utility. So, agi/int ends up being the best because it amplifies damage and mobility, while allowing to use everything effectively.

That's my opinion. Also, the class is broken, mostly by how spammable neutral is in comparison to similar mechanics in other classes (like rogue's kaboom). The heals can be a bit too powerful, too (up to 37% of the target's max HP for 12 AP).

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I agree with most of what Lynn mentioned but I don't see how neutral is really spammable when you can only use it twice per turn at level 6. I personally think the spell is fine as is mainly because of how easy it is for portals to be used against you. As for the heals I again think they are alright as is due to having to be in the portal state to be healed that much. Though I do think it's a bit broken that any healing spell going through a portal is buffed it's kinda crazy. Here's an example.

So-Yugo casts Insult.Rock-Star: +1174 HP.So-Yugo casts Insult.Rock-Star: +1174 HP.So-Yugo casts Therapy.Rock-Star: +488 HP.

That's just 8 AP through 4 portals at a distance. (Distance between portals increases heals and damages.)

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Didn't make one so far, but one question's really bothering me: how are they holding up in day to day PvM? I never do any PvP and have really been disappointed with the latest additions in the game, namely the Rogue, Fog, Toxine, Archiduk and the new Xel. They all have unique mechanics that are fun to play around with, but simply not effective enough for stuff like questing and daily dopples. They take turns and turns to set up, then when you think you have everything ready, the dumb monster rushing to you screws everything up. Are Eliotropes in the same boat?

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With the experience I've had so far with Eliotropes in PvM which isn't extensive by any means they are and aren't in the same boat. They can as the other classes you mentioned get screwed up quite easily due to how they're portals function but if it's the right map they can do amazingly well. For example I was running Soft Oak the other day and I proceeded to build my portals farther and farther across the map so I was just sitting on the opposite side of the map killing everything which worked beautifully. But in a smaller close quarters map I seem to have trouble with using my portals because I can't space them out properly. Though in the harder to complete dungeons such as anything in Frig 3 I'm not sure how they would function. But in theory I would imagine as a support they could work very well especially for blitzing bosses since portals add to your damage. Hope I helped a bit if at all to answer your question. ^^"

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Plasma-Hex|2015-01-16 18:32:10
I agree with most of what Lynn mentioned but I don't see how neutral is really spammable when you can only use it twice per turn at level 6. I personally think the spell is fine as is mainly because of how easy it is for portals to be used against you.
Again...compare to kaboom, which is what, once every 3 turns? And has the same function of avoiding that your own mechanics get turned against you. Same thing with fogger's special spell that turns the target immune to the turrets, which has 3 turn cooldown. Neutral, being 2x/turn, effectively stops enemies from ever using your portals against you, as long as the other 2 portals are set up far away (which, from what I heard, is a common tactic).
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Plasma-Hex|2015-01-16 20:50:52
With the experience I've had so far with Eliotropes in PvM which isn't extensive by any means they are and aren't in the same boat. They can as the other classes you mentioned get screwed up quite easily due to how they're portals function but if it's the right map they can do amazingly well. For example I was running Soft Oak the other day and I proceeded to build my portals farther and farther across the map so I was just sitting on the opposite side of the map killing everything which worked beautifully. But in a smaller close quarters map I seem to have trouble with using my portals because I can't space them out properly. Though in the harder to complete dungeons such as anything in Frig 3 I'm not sure how they would function. But in theory I would imagine as a support they could work very well especially for blitzing bosses since portals add to your damage. Hope I helped a bit if at all to answer your question. ^^"
I had a feeling they're a different matter, since they're not entirely dependant on their portals like some Rogues are on their bombs. I'm specifically referring to solo/duo PvM, more casual, since I know that every build can find its way through Frig 3+ with coordination. When I have to get an x amount of drops or beat x monsters I'm usually thankful I can mindlessly spam Pandatak and Kamus' cha attack and be done quickly, and I was not sure if that could also be done with Eliotropes.
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Lynn-Reiginleif|2015-01-16 21:04:28
Plasma-Hex|2015-01-16 18:32:10
I agree with most of what Lynn mentioned but I don't see how neutral is really spammable when you can only use it twice per turn at level 6. I personally think the spell is fine as is mainly because of how easy it is for portals to be used against you.
Again...compare to kaboom, which is what, once every 3 turns? And has the same function of avoiding that your own mechanics get turned against you. Same thing with fogger's special spell that turns the target immune to the turrets, which has 3 turn cooldown. Neutral, being 2x/turn, effectively stops enemies from ever using your portals against you, as long as the other 2 portals are set up far away (which, from what I heard, is a common tactic).
The bombs will never be detonated by the other players nor will the turrets hit you for insane damage,the turret damage is actually reduced on the fogger,both spells last longer than one turn.If enemies could use the portals as they seem fit they would kill you every single time with ease,the base damage on elio spells is low,it needs setting up to do good damage,one of their role,mostly you will never attack more than 2 times/turn because you need to set up the portals and neutrals.The class is an avid MP user,you WILL be exposed if you don't close your portals,there is no doubt here.

They work well with neutral,they would be useless without it,one neutral per turn would be like 1 bombwall activation/turn,kill the class,play it for novelty,forgotten.

The healing needs you,or the target, in portal state and aligned with portals, that will eat your ap/mp,erosion=reduced healing over time.37% hp for all your ap,meh,arch bow can crit better with less ap and less setup(int dependent),insane heal boosts will never be self heals,you can't position yourself,they are ally heals,that can also be done with a arch bow wielding berserker jumping iop.

The class works,why nerf it?

AngelofSkyyrth|2015-01-16 21:20:37
I had a feeling they're a different matter, since they're not entirely dependant on their portals like some Rogues are on their bombs. I'm specifically referring to solo/duo PvM, more casual, since I know that every build can find its way through Frig 3+ with coordination. When I have to get an x amount of drops or beat x monsters I'm usually thankful I can mindlessly spam Pandatak and Kamus' cha attack and be done quickly, and I was not sure if that could also be done with Eliotropes.
I have seen some nice f2 solos,having a big map with portals on the far ends it lets you kite nicely.
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There is another key difference between eliotropes and rogues/fogs. enemies cannot destroy the portals, whereas bombs and turrets can easily be dispatched by opponents determined to remove them from play.

I agree that neutral is more important to the eliotrope than kaboom and dreadnaut are to their respective classes, however two casts per turn is a bit too much (able to remove 100% of the risk each turn for 2ap without much thought) . reducing it to once per turn would leave the eliotrope needing to place portals more tactically than currently necessary, while still allowing the eliotrope to prevent easy exploitation (besides,there are ways to set up portal chains so they only work effectively in one direction based on spacing)

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bobo-me|2015-01-16 22:04:22
Lynn-Reiginleif|2015-01-16 21:04:28
The bombs will never be detonated by the other players nor will the turrets hit you for insane damage,the turret damage is actually reduced on the fogger,both spells last longer than one turn.If enemies could use the portals as they seem fit they would kill you every single time with ease,the base damage on elio spells is low,it needs setting up to do good damage,one of their role,mostly you will never attack more than 2 times/turn because you need to set up the portals and neutrals.The class is an avid MP user,you WILL be exposed if you don't close your portals,there is no doubt here.

They work well with neutral,they would be useless without it,one neutral per turn would be like 1 bombwall activation/turn,kill the class,play it for novelty,forgotten.

The healing needs you,or the target, in portal state and aligned with portals, that will eat your ap/mp,erosion=reduced healing over time.37% hp for all your ap,meh,arch bow can crit better with less ap and less setup(int dependent),insane heal boosts will never be self heals,you can't position yourself,they are ally heals,that can also be done with a arch bow wielding berserker jumping iop.

The class works,why nerf it?
The bombs WILL be detonated by other players if they have powder, PLUS there are bomb walls your opponents can use against you. The turret CAN hit you for good damage or heal your enemies for good amounts (granted, not as strong, but they can hit/heal multiple targets, so it evens out). Also, I wouldn't call 34~38 or 36~40 low base damage. And it's leagues above rogue's damage. That, plus the damage bonus from portals, and you don't *need* to attack more to deal strong damage. I've seen elios hit 1000+ PER SPELL. Barring rekop, punitive arrow, that other chance arrow I forgot the name, wrath and sword of fate, I haven't seen any other class doing that. And all of those need setup and have a cooldown/max accumulation, you can't spam them.

Speaking of setup, rogues and foggers need a LOT more setup than elios, and, as Nerd-Tease said, bombs and turrets can be destroyed; portals can't. Bombs and turrets can be pushed and pulled, portals can't. And both bombs and turrets require you to be at least at mid range from the target and constant maintenance, while portals allow you to be safe in the other side of the map, once you set up a single portal (and you HAVE the tools to escape and keep your opponents on the other side of the map). Eliotropes don't have nearly as much risk, setup, and maintenance as rogues or foggers. And also have better direct effects.

I have done an experiment and played without neutral. It's a lot harder, yes. But not nearly as hard as rogue. It's still good and still effective. You only need to place your portals carefully and replace them when you need it, it's not that hard.

About the healing, yes, erosion destroys it. Once it stacks. And all erosion dealing spells are close ranged, while eliotropes can extend their range infinitely. Plus, what is stopping an eliotrope from using arch bow with portal boosts? The damage/heals boost is valid for weapons and allies too, you know.

You nerf things when they work way too well.
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I just wanted to note that weapons are not usable through portals. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said about the Archetypal Bow some how. Anyways continue. :3

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AngelofSkyyrth|2015-01-16 20:33:44
Didn't make one so far, but one question's really bothering me: how are they holding up in day to day PvM? I never do any PvP and have really been disappointed with the latest additions in the game, namely the Rogue, Fog, Toxine, Archiduk and the new Xel. They all have unique mechanics that are fun to play around with, but simply not effective enough for stuff like questing and daily dopples. They take turns and turns to set up, then when you think you have everything ready, the dumb monster rushing to you screws everything up. Are Eliotropes in the same boat?
I'll speak from the experience I have which is a bit of high level pvm but mainly doing duos.

I find in duos Eliotropes are constrained with how much they can do with portals due to the limitations of neutral. Portals are great for moving from one side of the map to the other or blitzing a particular monster, those aside the portals can easily become a threat to you if you do not devote a fair bit of attention to them. With neutral requiring a line of sight and no ability to remove portals from the map, once the portals are in play, they are in play for the duration of the fight. Sadly the threat of monsters moving through or even hitting through the portal leaves them as a double edged sword of sorts, which leaves me kinda sour as you have to be reserved with the main element of the classes gameplay.

For high level pvm, the class is certainly fun but by no means comparable to the pvm pillars (panda/eni/iop/masq) in terms of usefulness. I find for pvm of all kinds, int builds with a bit of agi are the best. Int has consistent high damage without the awkward spell cast ranges/aoes other builds offer. Agi is certainly a very useful element that should not be overlooked by any elio, even if only as a secondary element. Portals in team pvm can work very well if you manipulate the mob in such a way that they will not pose a threat by jumping right through the portals. I am a big fan of wrath+sof through elio portals (as I'm sure everyone is) but things like healing through portals should not be overlooked as all classes heals are increased through portals.

I refrain from calling the class 'gimmicky' but it is not for everyone.
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So far I enjoy the class quite a bit, I'm currently chance and prefer that element over the others considering the non-LoS spell. Damage is pretty nice after a good set up and I really don't have any complaints, portals are pretty easy to build up with once you have the right frame of mind. In terms of laying down portals I've stumbled upon a few different set ups that can keep the fight progressing smoothly. One thing I will also say is nice is noticing myself move from taking the full 30 sec turn to now taking a little over a fourth of it.

Nerd-Tease|2015-01-16 22:54:13

I agree that neutral is more important to the eliotrope than kaboom and dreadnaut are to their respective classes, however two casts per turn is a bit too much (able to remove 100% of the risk each turn for 2ap without much thought) . reducing it to once per turn would leave the eliotrope needing to place portals more tactically than currently necessary, while still allowing the eliotrope to prevent easy exploitation (besides,there are ways to set up portal chains so they only work effectively in one direction based on spacing)


I think 2 casts per turn is appropriate as I generally use both to keep myself from getting hit while remaining flexible. While you are right, this would force eliotropes to be a bit more strategic, I think that's over done. To be honest with you, a change like that would discourage me from playing the class due to fear of hurting teammates. While there are ways to set them up like you said, they generally lack a good amount of flexibility
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You can't play without neutral,you will be blitzed by your own damage boosts and be caught by mobs.Like the old saying goes,if you played w/o neutral,"pics(videos) or it didn't happen!".Show some proof that you were not obliterated by a more challenging mob,this goes strictly for pve,because we all know that in pvp its game over.

The damage, is 8/ap for the best spells, rogues have the absolute worst damage spells in the game,don't compare them.

But HAY,i don't really fear a elio nerf,because they don't even come close to Ecas and Iops and a small error in setting up gets you smashed.

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First of all, I don't really care if eliotropes get nerfed or not because neutral is really only a problem in pvp, pvm yes you do need neutral x2 and if you had an eliotrope on your team you would want them to have x2 neutral.

That said there's a few things a saw that caught my attention:

1. "You can't fight without neutral in a pvp match (not sure if thats what you meant by gameover, but ill address it anyways and ill address pve down further)" That's entirely wrong and here's an example of what happened to me. So elio casts its 2 portals like always near each other, pretty useless for anyone to use. Next turn, use that +range on portal spell and lay portals so you can hit the enemy diagonally then you just run to the top of the portal. Now its the enemies turn, first of all they can't hit you back unless they can run to the bottom of the portal by them and hit into it (because remember spells go in the same direction) so if it was down 1, right 1 from the enemy they'll need 6mp to hit you (assuming the portal is against a wall) and if you're 2 spaces above the portal they'll need 7mp to hit you. Now you might say, "oh well they can just run through the portal". But then their damage will be normal whereas yours was buffed, and as far as I know you can't you portals twice on your turn so they won't be able to run back and your team can kill them.

Simply because the eliotrope gets to go first they can effectively use portals without neutral and move away. Now say someone did run through a portal all you have to do is release them back into it, and then you can also attack through the portal because its the same direction as you pushed them. And now you can just move so that they can't hit you through the portal. (By now their probably dead anyways because even weak elios can hit like 800x2 through portals so thats 3200 in those two turns)

2. I actually do think eliotrope's heals need to be nerfed. So I hear people playing elios saying "well you gotta set things up to heal" but its actually not that hard at all. I'm not sure exactly how the heals are setup, but I do know that one of my teammates was killed on the 2nd turn with portals and we hit one of them through the portals, then on the elios turn she healed the teammate we hit by at least 2300. And that happened again the next turn.

Its one thing to allow a teammate to do 3k+ through a portals, its a whole different thing to be able to heal close to 35% hp every turn or even every 2 turns ON TOP OF all that damage increase. I don't really see why they made elio's healers and why they made the heals % heals on top of that. The only other class that has % heals (consistently, enu bribery doesn't count) are foggernauts and when they evo 3 their heal turrent they aren't really able to do much extra damage while their healing. And yes, portals count as damage for elios even if their not the ones hitting through them. That extra damage wouldn't exist if the eliotrope wasn't there. You can't use a fog's turrents to increase your damage while their healing.

3. "Can't pve without neutral" Again i think this is just a strategy problem for elios. If you lay portals by the monsters of course they're going to walk through them. Instead lay portals near your team and then as monsters get close you can hit them through the portals before they get a chance to walk through them. This might be a little tougher in f3 dungeons and mobs, but anyway you look at it elios are supposed to be a strategy class not a "facerolling" iop as some people call them (though they still use some strategy). Now ranged monsters might become a problem if you wait for them to get close, but most ranged monsters don't run at you, they run away from you, so they're not likely to move through the portals near them. And like i said in the pvp part, you just have to walk to a certain side of the portal and they can't hit you back.

In the end I'd rather have the rumored interserver kolos completed and start advertising on english game sites using their browser version to get new players before they worry about nerfing eliotropes I just couldn't help joining in the topic :X

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In my opinion, the damage boost of portals is too high. It allows them to hit 2k+ dmg from any range and angel.

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Bigfoot1318|2015-01-20 08:15:57
Now say someone did run through a portal all you have to do is release them back into it, and then you can also attack through the portal because its the same direction as you pushed them.
The portal would be closed after using release.
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