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Class Improvement - Ouginak

By [Ankama]DOFUS - ADMIN - February 20, 2019, 17:59:14
AnkaTracker

This topic is intended to gather your ideas and suggestions on improvements to the Ouginak class.
Please, keep in mind that class balancing focuses on both PvP and PvM at once.

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First Ankama intervention

The accompanying graphic allows us to view the results of this first survey for the Ouginak class.

  • Dommages - Damage
  • Survie (soin, protection, et tanking) - Survival (healing, protection, and tanking)
  • Amélioration - Improvements
  • Placement - Placement
  • Entrave - Debuffer
  • Vision actuelle - Current vision
  • Vision idéale - Ideal vision

In red, you can see the ideal vision you have for each class role. The blue profile presents the current vision and feeling in the game.

Like most classes, Ouginaks have two similar (but not identical) profiles – the class as it is today is broadly in line with what players expect.

The very slight divergence in survival skills, deemed to be marginally too strong, is barely measurable and of little significance.

The diagram represents one of the elements taken into account upon reflection; your comments allow us to provide a more-concrete vision that is closer to the in-game reality.
We'd also like to remind you that in order to solve perception divergences, nerfing and upping aren't the only tools we have at our disposal.

You can see the class comparison on the main topic.
See message in context
Reactions 14
Score : 166

So just a preamble, my ouginak is my main character and has beensince they came out 2 years ago (happy late birthday to them.) So these are just my gripes with the class that I really do enjoy.

My biggest want for this class is for pray to get some range on it. 6 is nice and fair in pvp for sure, but for pvm when your trying to stay ranged on some bosses (proto - queen - meno as examples) trying to get in there with the 6 range is actually kinda deadly if your not in beast form and if you are, you're then limited on what you can do anyway. I feel likes there's a happy middle ground we can do to this spell on its variant, over having the ability to pray everything give it the modifiable tag to be able to use it in more places, not just when you have two ouginaks. Speaking of having multiple ouginaks in a fight why is it one has to take the varriant to be able to use pray as well? Shouldn't they be able to have their own pray to hunt if one is getting the other. They are not pack hunters as far as i could tell like the cats that follow Kanigrula.

I think that the Air path needs to have abit of the damage brought back to it when you guys removed alot of the damage baseline from Carcass. My ougi is a odd omni type character so this may not be indicative to a full agi ougi but hitting for ~300-400(max stacks of the +8 AND +350 power from blood hound and R-canine) on a 2ap spell just doesn't cut it anymore when with my 2 ap fire spell baseline hits for that amount then more with the power buffs. Carcass with it damage being so low with no added benefit like Woof (+pushback damage) or Mastiff (healing for its damage on pray targets) also just makes that spell lackluster. The variant however is nice if you can get 3+ people next to your target. The rest of the spells here are fine.

Chance is in a state where I think there's little improvement that could be made to it to help it out, outside of giving pray the modifiable tag. since you can be SO far away from your target that you cant put pray on it to start with (see the top bit for that). I would like to see Tibia get its 3 cell push back, back,  since it was semi pivotal when trying to get away from something or at least get an answer as to why they thought it needed to be changed.

Intelligence just like chance is really good in the way it was presented as the "lock down"/"hunt down" path for the ouginak so again I dont have much to say on this one as the spells just play nicely with each other depending on how you built your character. 

Lastly Strength is abit of an odd ball for the ouginak, it sets out to be the "tank" version of the ouginak but only gains that with Watchdog a spell that from what i have found doesn't lower the damage you take that much after your other rage stacks, so I would guess your meant to use it while your in rage mode. Other then that this path has good damage, lock down (with lock over mp theft) so is fine the way it is just abit odd.

So over all i think the ouginak's elemental spells are in a good spot just need to be polished abit and it will be back to its well rounded self.

I just have one question, that is the use of "Snaggletooth" over using R-canine? Its just a spell that lowers rage, where as R-canine lowers rage AND gives you 200% power for two turns for one more AP, I really think you guys should find another spell to take the place of snaggletooth as there's just really no point of running it with the ways we are able to manage rage at the moment anyway. 

1 0
Reply
Score : 384

i believe snuggletooth used to reduce 200% power for 2 turns xDDD ankama...

0 0
Score : 413

Hey
IMO this class is nice. Gold theme,interasting play style but there ale few thinks which bothering me...

1- prey. - This think shouldnt be infinity. IT can be long like 5Tours but cant be endless. In Exchange u can add few rang to this spell.

next think ougi got dmg like iop and survi like feca (especialy str)and also he got erosion. Ik that need same practice, and skill with controling rage but IMO he should be betwen both of them. 
higher dmg than feca but lower than iop,
better survi than iop and worse than feca

his pvm is good for me.

3 -6
Reply
Score : 1078

I agree, Prey to me needs to be modifiable range but only last like 3 turns. Another issue I have is the fact that the teleport has infinite range. Pretty broken especially vs Cras or squishy targets that cannot defend themselves cc, also the fact it can place you behind an enemy with wall behind you is pretty broken with agility. As far as the builds go I think better spells are needed in chance and str needs polishing.

0 0
Reply

The accompanying graphic allows us to view the results of this first survey for the Ouginak class.

  • Dommages - Damage
  • Survie (soin, protection, et tanking) - Survival (healing, protection, and tanking)
  • Amélioration - Improvements
  • Placement - Placement
  • Entrave - Debuffer
  • Vision actuelle - Current vision
  • Vision idéale - Ideal vision

In red, you can see the ideal vision you have for each class role. The blue profile presents the current vision and feeling in the game.

Like most classes, Ouginaks have two similar (but not identical) profiles – the class as it is today is broadly in line with what players expect.

The very slight divergence in survival skills, deemed to be marginally too strong, is barely measurable and of little significance.

The diagram represents one of the elements taken into account upon reflection; your comments allow us to provide a more-concrete vision that is closer to the in-game reality.
We'd also like to remind you that in order to solve perception divergences, nerfing and upping aren't the only tools we have at our disposal.

You can see the class comparison on the main topic.
Reply
Score : 166

Thanks for posting this, it's rather interesting to see how our communal perception is actually inline with how you guys had thought of the class/currently have it. Though I must say I'm saddened that we thought to nerf the tank ability 9f the class (I know you guys said it's hardly there but still) while not budging on giving it abit more damage or anything to compensate any potential loss. Can't wait to see what the next update will hold!! happy

0 0
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Score : 139

Chance ougis a bit broken, that poision dosnt look fair enough, and that rage stacks gives damage sustain, thats makes a problem, since they can use unshakable state heal or armor almost every turn.. 

1 -1
Reply
Score : 72

The poison still does less than an agi sram. Rage letting us deal with our short ranges or few "get away moves" let us fill our "brawler" tag. Unshakable does nothing if you get rid of it (just melee) the healing takes part of our tanking and is the trade off of doing less that turn. The shield gets removed as well if you do PB... I don't really see how that's an issue when all of our abilities have downsides that the opponent can take advantage of with any spell they have in their kit.

1 0

Generally speaking, you find the Ouginak class fun to play in most of its modes. However, you perceive a lack of viability for the single-element, air, earth and fire modes.

In the forums:
Regarding Ouginaks, many of you said that the class was very interesting to play, notably at low level, but some of you feel that once the high levels have been reached, the class does not set itself apart from the other classes enough.

Reply
Score : 16

I actually really like the ougi how it is right now. I quite like how it is in the middle of some other classes, and surely not OP imo. I think that decreasing anything significant would make ougi feel useless, with other classes being superiour. Also, big increases in any area would make the class either OP or too similar to roles that other classes fulfill. 

1 0
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Score : 3

Hey there, wanted to give feedback from my own perception as this has been my main class since its release. I am also focusing mostly on PvP ouginak builds mostly.
Element Modes:
Earth: The damage seems very good overall and with spells like Watchdog or Mastiff the tanking/survival ability of this build is overall way stronger then the other modes. However, this build crucially lacks range, which is most likely wanted to create an identity to this build. As of the Earth Spells, I do not believe they would need a buff/nerf but it would be up to the other ougi spells (especially movement spells/rage control spells) to be changed in order make this build slightly stronger.

Intelligence: Without a doubt the weakest build in my eyes. Yes, this mode has good damage but whereas Earth spells have interesting secondary effects (More damage reduction/Life steal/Dodge reduction) , I feel like the secondary effects on Intelligence Spells are pretty much useless (MP raping doesn't seem strong enough for a close range build). I think this build's spells could really benefit from interesting secondary effects, such as one turn gravity state instead of the MP rape on Tetanisation for instance.

Chance: Vertebra, 3 turns duration, modifiable range and more then once per turn? This spell has way too much going for it, and is truly too strong in its current state in my opinion. In PvP Marrow Bone doesn't even seem like a worthy option to consider, except if you're using some odd build with class belt for instance (and even then...) For the other spells, they are comparable to other element spells the ouginak posseses : Radius allows easier movement around the map, same for Tibia, allowing to push 2 entities standing right behind each other and Ulna and Calcaneus are both viable options ( Ulna seems a bit stronger for all those Range Chance Ougis that are flooding kolo at the moment but Calcaneus can't be fully left out, especially on other types of builds where it serves well as a utility spell) .

Agility: Carcass provides relatively good damage in the long game, despite the nerf and the rest of the spells of this element keep up with strong damage possibilities. The agility stat allowing your ouginak to gain more lock/more dodge truly helps this build a lot allowing it to move around and annoy other enemies more easily. However this element has a big problem, Rage control is very hard because the 2 spells you pretty much use every turn (Carving up/Carrion) both raise it each time they are used. Making only one of the two raise Rage or making it easier to control rage through other spells should help fix this issue.

So in conclusion, with small changes I believe we could find a balance between the elements on the ouginak.

Utility spells:
Is prey's infinite effect too strong? Sure it is strong but I don't believe it actually would need a change. However Venison would need something to make it viable in comparison to prey: More casts per turn (2 or even 3?) or modifiable or just bigger range for starters would help.

Gangrene, a spell that allows you to apply 40% Erosion for 2 turns is crucial to an ouginak (only Agility Ouginaks having access to erosion outside that spell) but does it really need to increase Rage? I believe better Rage control would really benefit ouginaks, therefore I do not think that this spell should increase Rage at all (an other secondary effect such as 10% damage reduction for 1 turn or something could be added though).

R-Canine is a great spell for Rage control currently but I feel it isn't enough. Maybe setting the turns between casts to 2 instead of 3 would really help.
Snuggletooth comes from an interesting idea, to help ouginak control their Rage level much more consistently, but the fact it doesn't give anything on the side makes R-Canine much more attractive.
This is a long shot but maybe making the Ap refunded after the spell is casted would make it a true aspect of Rage Control? Who knows but something needs to be done to this spell.

Protective Pelt is really a double-edged spell: sure you will gain nearly 1k of shields for 2 turns, but the fact a simple blow from a iop or a release can not only remove that but also transform you in Wolf Mode (making you loose the damage reduction) makes this spell extremely inferior to spells like Fermentation of the Pandawa. Maybe making Protective Pelt not raise your Rage but instead give you 15% damage reduction for a turn would help (Damage Reduction after pushback damage removed the shields).

Ferocity is too situational to be used well, therefore I would like to see a totally new effect on that spell for example how about an unlockable spell ? (Sure you are unlockable while in Wolf Mode but it would be interesting to see such effect while still being in Human Form, and would truly benefit Earth and Intelligence Builds which are mostly melee but don't have the same ease at moving around then Agility Builds.

Affection has also a good idea behind it, but Appeasement is too good compared to it for the spell to be considered. Making this castable every turn or have it have no line of sight could make it an interesting counterpart of Appeasement. Lowering the cost to 2 AP could also be considered.

Panic can be found useful in certain scenarios, but overall, Pursuit remains a much better option in most cases. Making Panic have much lower turns between cast time could really make it a more viable option (from 4 to 2 for instance).

Gnaw is also a very situational spell, only reason to use it is if you are using a pushback and Intelligence Build on your ouginak and even then, Bark is a very strong option that can't be left out.
Same as Ferocity, I think a new effect comparable to Bark's could make it a more interesting variant that could benefit the 4 Elemental Builds. 

A lot of players seem to have a problem with Sniff's infinite range, however I think that if that spell needed to be nerf, we should instead increase the turns between casts by 1 (from 2 to 3). I find Determination to be very useful in certain scenarios, mostly because Gravity State can only be inflicted with that spell for Ouginaks and therefore, I don't think a change should be made to that spell.

To conclude, balancing Vertebra should help making the Chance Mode less "OP" and upgrading Movement/Rage Control through Utility Spells will allow the other elements to thrive.
Once again, this was all based on my own perception and experience with my Ouginak smile Thank you all for reading and let's get this class somewhere!
 

0 0
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Score : 299

As rank 1 ouginak in 3v3 solo kolo, and having taken this class to legend tier in each of the three kolo seasons, here are a few of my thoughts on the above posts and changes i'd like to see happen in the upcoming class balancing update:

1. Venison should be a modifiable ranged version of prey with a line of sight needed, and this shouldn't heal.
2. Tibia is fine with 2 cell pushback; the base damage is very high, 3 was broken.
3. Snuggletooth is underused, it's good for managing rage for erosion every turn, but rcanine, appeasement, sniff can do this too. The spell should be replaced with something new: I suggest give oug unbewitchment back again (the pre-rework carving up used to but you took that away from us), 1 to 2 turn unbewitch consuming a stack of rage, with or without elemental damage (it'd make sense to be without as the rcanine variant) OR 
perhaps a spell which heals a % of max hp when hit from range, melee, when ap raped, or mp raped.
4. I'd like to see the vertebra ap cost be reduced by 1, and its base damage reduced consequently. Epidemic is 4 ap for similar damage, but srams get the power of invisibility to accompany it, 5 ap severely limits what chance ougs who rely on the spell with the ebony dofus effect can do if ap raped a little bit. It doesn't give them much room to use many other spells. 
5. Increase the base damage of carcass again. It's been nerfed twice now and although the damage is still nice when fully stacked (6 stacks), that requires us to dangerously get into mid to close range to stack it over 3 turns which is significant in 3v3. Honestly, the second nerf was not necessary. Please give us back the +5 base damage per stack. If venison were changed to modifiable range then perhaps carcass should be modifiable too so ranged agi ougs would be an option with beaten, moon hammer, buhorado bow etc.
6. Change the stripping up mechanism to both allies and enemies next to the target, but reduce the base damage accordingly.
7. Decrease the ap cost of protective pelt by 1, to 2 ap, like it used to be. Ecaflips get a 1k+ vit shield for 2 ap? Eniripsas get a 960 vit shield for 2 ap? Sacriers get a 1500 hp shield for 3 ap with basically no cooldown? Our shield can bedeactivated easily by pushback which every class can do with release and it's simply not worth using in cases where we need it the most to protect our allies in 3v3 or ourselves.
8. Increase the pushback distance of tailing back to 3 cells from 2. Masqs get a 4 cell pushback  for the same ap cost in the spell comedy (which is stupid and needs a nerf or at least the class ring no line of sight effect removed!) which, when used in a proper pushback build can deal over 700 dmg with the boliche buff. If tibia does go back to 3 cell pushback then this will open up cha/pushback and int/pushback builds again as currently no-one plays them. In 3v3 solo, i've found that roughly 75% of ougs are strength and 25% of ougs are chance just to give you an idea. Why give us pushback buffs like gnaw and woof if we don't have any good spells to use them with!???
9. Remove the rage increase associated with radius OR the rage reduction associated with affection. 
10. Buff the base damage of amarok or change this spell completely. Perhaps another 3 ap strength spell alongside watchdog which grants shield points or increased damage sustained by the target (a reverse watchdog)
11. Buff the base damage of carrion, eca's have a similar damaging spell which erodes in reflex which is 1-5 range AND hits in an area of effect whereas carrion only targets a single enemy...
12. Marrow bone should not be linear. If the ap cost were 3, then linear would be fine but it's only 21-23 base damage for 4 ap and the target has to be prey for it to stack which is fine if venison were modifiable...
13. Determination should cost 2 ap. As the 200 variant and requiring the target to be prey to work it is a rip off.
14. Last and most importantly, please consider removing the rage increased associated with gangrene as Peniblorr requested above. 

All our other spells are perfect in my opinion!

I hope you'll consider some of these biggrin

Juse

3 -1
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Score : 1

Hi, 
I've been playing the ouginak for quite some time, and I somehow feel that a lot of the variables given aren't in use because it's synergy with certain spells aren't worth it to cast. 
I think that ouginak's boosts spells aren't reliable because there are so many conditions and the duration of the effects are really short and it's hardly of any use since you lose so much time to apply these boosts.

The class has been really fun to play at low/ mid levels but it lost it's viability in high-level pvm. 


 

0 0
Reply
Score : 28

I feel like the class "tankiness" shouldn't be touches as that is the main purpose for the class just like masqs have their shields. I play chance ougi and the big issue is that if you're not doing a vertebra play style there is not really much you can do, if marrow bone was 3 ap it would be more viable to not play the vertebra spell and it'll give you more options to attack as Ulna doesn't really have much damage.

I would be happy trading off bone marrow' damage increase for a bit more damage and just 3ap

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