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Xelor 2.59 discussion

By Chmpp13#8619 - SUBSCRIBER - April 16, 2021, 22:31:00

I'm not seeing any thread with any meaningful discussion on the new xelor despite there being a lot of changes. Some of them quite massive in my opinion. I hope some people will see this and contribute to the discussion. Im not a native english speaker so take it easy on the english please.

Im not going to quote all the changes but they are here (in french): Changelog bêta 2.59 - Forum - DOFUS, le MMORPG stratégique. The english changelog isnt updated to the latest version but its here:  Beta 2.59 Changelog - Forum - DOFUS: the strategic MMORPG. 

I would like to preface this by saying i absolutely despise the current 2.58 int xelor and lavasmith dofus, and these two aspects are in my opinion the most problematic regarding the xelor class.

Regarding the changes, I think the most balanced (i don't really have a lot to say on those) are the following: 

  • Buffs to frostbite, flight, souvenir and embalming.
  • Nerfs to spontaneous return, clock, temporal dust and disruption.

Now onto the ones i think deserve more discussion. 

While I trully hate the 2.58 version of hand, i dont think the proposed version is a reasonable one.

Hand :
  • How it works: Inflicts Fire damage and puts the target to the "Hand" state. If the spell is cast on a new target, the Hand is removed from the original target and inflicts Fire damage again. This additional damage is increased 3 times maximum for each Telefrag generated in the meantime.
    • Damage to the initial target when removing the Hand:
      • 0 TF :
        • Level 1 : 4 à 5
        • Level 67 : 5 à 6
        • Level 133 : 7 à 8
      • 1 TF :
        • Level 1 : 8 à 10
        • Level 67 : 11  à 13
        • Level 133 : 14 à 17
      • 2 TF :
        • Level 1 : 12 à 15
        • Level 67 : 16 à 19
        • Level 133 : 21 à 26
      •  3 TF :
        • Level 1 : 16 à 20
        • Level 67 : 22 à 26
        • Level 133 : 28 à 34
  • Casts per target : 2 → 1
  • Damage:
    • Level 1 : 8 à 10 (10 à 12 CC)
    • Level 67 : 11 à 13 (13 à 16 CC)
    • Level 133 : 14 à 17 (18 à 20 CC)

Essentially its the same concept of devouring arrow but with telefrags in the mix. In terms of damage, its obviously way worst than the current version and that's okay by me. 

The thing is, I feel like it shouldn't even be a "damage" mechanic in the first place. There is the strength build for that.

I think a better idea would be to either to make it give some sort of support for allies or more sustain for xelor. This way, int build actually gets a different role than the strength build. For example: 
  • A shield (say something like +100/150) for allies in telefrag state when you telefrag the target under the "Hand" state. Would pair well with it being an int build so you could play a bit of a support xelor with an healing weapon. This mechanic would have great sinergy with temporal dust, and with temporal suspension being one of the few supportive habilities xelor have (debuf) i think it would be an amazing build for teamplay.
  • A self heal (+50/100) when you telefrag the target under the "Hand" stat. Its not as interesting but it would give a bit more sustain for xelor which currently has almost none.

Now onto serious hour: 
  • Inflicts damage in Circle 2 AoE in the launcher's best attack element on each entity in Telefrag state. Each Telefrag generated since the last casting of the spell reduces its cost in AP, 6 times maximum.
  • Casting conditions: :
    • AP : 3 → 9
    • Range min : 0
    • Range max : 6
    • Cooldown : 4
    • Initial cooldown : 0 → 1
  • Damage:
    • 76 à 84 (Best element)

It is the variant of synchro which might just be the best xelor spell overall. Not just for its damage dealing threat but also as a pivot for tp/pendulum or desynchronisation or even to just block LoS. I think for all that, serious hour needs to be a really good spell to make it worth using at all.

Having said that... i think its a huge problem. To me it feels like "hand" all over again. People will abuse this and as a result other aspects of xelor will eventually be nerfed again because of that. I think the general idea is not a bad one, especially for PvM, but it needs some balancing. Much like hand, i would prefer a defensive or supportive option of sorts but i dont feel like thats going to happen. 

I like the AoE aspect especially for PvM so i think its not a bad idea to keep that. I think a reasonable way to balance it without changing too much would be one of the following:
  • (my favorite) Increase base AP cost to 15~20. It could be reduced via telefrags up to 3 AP. This way it kind of serves the same principle as synchro: its a "late game" (say turn 5+) AoE damage dealing spell. The kind that can change the tide of the fight, same way as synchro does. The damage would be lower than what synchro can do at that stage but its "guaranteed" damage so i guess it evens out. You would also lose synchro as a pivot which is a big deal. The crucial part is making it so its not very usable at turn 3 to avoid cloudy xelors spamming this.
  • Making it so it's AP cost only reduces by unique telefrags, just like synchro does. Doesnt really solve the T3 problem though.
  • Just reducing the damage. Its kind of lame to just do this but i guess its better than nothing.

Now shrivelling
  • Damage:
    • Level 3 :
      • NERF Without TF : 15 à 17 (19 à 21 en CC) → 14 à 16 (18 à 20 en CC)
      • UP With TF : 18 à 20 (22 à 24 en CC) → 20 à 22 (24 à 26 en CC)
    • Level 69 :
      • NERF Without TF : 20 à 23 (24 à 27 en CC) → 19 à 22 (23 à 26 en CC)
      • UP With TF : 24 à 27 (29 à 32 en CC) → 26 à 29 (31 à 35 en CC)
    • Level 136 :
      • NERF Without TF : 26 à 29 (31 à 35 en CC) → 25 à 28 (30 à 34 en CC)
      • UP With TF : 31 à 34 (37 à 41 en CC) → 33 à 36 (40 à 43 en CC)

So this is a bit akward... it's almost like changing it just to say you are changing it. Doesn't really make a significant difference does it. I think shrivelling should definitely do more damage than it does and i like the idea of reducing non TF damage and increasing TF damage but this feels like nothing changed. I would say exactly the same thing for shadowy beam.

Mummification :
  • The Telefrag state applied by Mummification only lasts 1 turn.
    • Grants an additional 40/60 AP Parry bonus to the caster for 1 turn

Now this is a huge nerf. I'm not sure how to feel about it to be honest. It feels like its way too harsh but then again Mummification is really good at the moment.

I feel like this ain't going back so at least a more reasonable bonus would be welcomed. I get xelor had spells like this long ago but at the moment i don't think AP parry does a great deal for xelor. A better approach would be to simply keep the +2 mp bonus for 2 turns.

  • Damage:
    • Level 120 : 27 à 31 (32 à 37 en CC) → 21 à 24 (25 à 29 en CC)
    • Level  187 : 31 à 35 (37 à 42 en CC) → 24 à 28 (29 à 34 en CC)

Gear is already underused as it is. I personally like this spell a lot in PvM and it seems to me to be perfectly balanced in that aspect of the game. It's not like its overpowered in PvP either, xelor punch is generally a better option. Unless im missing something this doesn't make all that much sense to me.

Now this isnt a actual xelor change but it makes a huge difference. 
  • Lavasmith dofus  : The maximum cumulative per turn is increased: 2 → 3 times

I believe the new lavasmith dofus a good change when it comes to protection from pushback, which if im not mistaken, its what it's main objective is. It now procs with generall movement as well as pb damage (which it didn't before) with 3 times maximum/turn. Overall i think its a good solution seeing that generally speaking its difficult to protect from pusback builds. It offers some reduction but doesn't render pushback builds useless if you use it. But what i dont understand is why in 2.59 it will still proc with xelor movement spells.

Lavasmith was a "band aid" solution to int xelor. I'll give the devs the benefict of the doubt and say maybe there were time constrains and possible a better solution wasn't available at that time. But the reality is, that approach really was a terrible one. Instead of fixing a broken aspect of the xelor class, it only created more problems.

As a non int xelor, i feel incredibly frustrated to see my enemies gaining free shield every turn just because im playing my class the way it should be played. It's the same as having a dofus slot, acessible for all builds, that gives me shield when a osamodas summons. When a rogue summons/moves bombs. When a sadida summons or removes MPs. When an huppermage uses an elemental combos or runes. When a iop/eca/ougi uses erosion. When a feca/masqueraider uses a shield... you get the point. Fundamentally speaking, to me at least, it doesnt make any sense whatsoever. 

With int xelor being nerfed i feel like there is no need for this dofus to still proc with xelor movement spells. It's only a limitation to the xelors that actually play their class the way they should be playing it.


From a PvM perspective, i think 2.59 Xelor will be weaker than the current version. Spontaneous return, Hand, Gear and mummification are considerable nerfs to PvM. For all that Hand is in terms of PvP,  and how much it deserved to be nerfed, it is a great PvM spell that is getting lost.

Now, i am of the opinion that xelor can be quite good in solo fights because of all it's mobility. By no means the best, or even close to that, but decent. But when it comes to team PvM, it gets overshadowed by classes like panda or elio in terms of positioning. And in terms of consistent damage, it gets overshadowed by quite a bit of other classes. Unfortunately, in 2.59 both of these aspects are getting even weaker on xelor. 

The only real upside is serious hour, which would be a great PvM Spell. However, in the current state, it is unbelievably problematic for group PVP. So there is a world where this spell changes to the point where it isnt even worth playing over synchro. Which would effectively mean there is no real compensation in terms of PvM for all the nerfs xelor are getting. A class that, in my opinion, is already on the lower tier of overall effectiveness in PvM.

From a 1v1 PvP perspective i think for as long as lavasmith remains the way it is, its very hard for me to actually enjoy this aspect of the game. The current biggest strength xelor has is the "ignorance" (i don't mean in as an insult) of other players when it comes to the xelor class. Knowing your opponent is supposed to be a key skill when it comes to 1v1 fights, not a particular strength of a class. Meaning, if you come across a player that has a decent knowledge of xelor, as they should, for as long as lavasmith continues to be the way it is, you will almost always lose without it being a real fight.

From a 3v3 PvP perspective, int xelor getting nerfed in 2.59 is a huge positive change that hopes to bring back the xelor to place we like it. But unfortunately, the Lavasmith coupled with other xelor changes are worrying.

In terms of positioning, xelors are worst with the nerfs of spontaneous return and mummification but can still be good. They are however still very vulnerable to gravity state, this much hasn't changed. When you actually think about it, in a random 3v3 fight, having gravity state of some sort isnt all that uncommon.

From a PvP meta perspective, playing a more position based game in general feels to me like its getting weaker with each update. So many classes have huge damage potential and fights are effectively over in only a couple of turns. Seeing as you will most likely spend at least 1 turn with gravity state, it often don't allow xelors enough time to play a positional style game, potentially with synchro etc. 

When it comes to damage, int xelor is now rightfully nerfed. Int crit melee gear is still incredibly powerful and maybe int xelors will still be played but i think they will be considerably worst than they are at the moment.

Now, with the proposed lavasmith dofus in 2.59, it feels like all the elemental builds are still considerably handicapped. Xelors don't have erosion, have almost zero support options or sustain habilities, making it really dificult to justify playing xelor as a damage dealer over other classes. It's still usable and can definitely win fights on random 3v3 kolos (like all classes) but as a damage dealer against well equipped opponents, it is sub-par. While being a huge boost for elemental builds, the new Serious hour is very problematic. If it stands, it will be spammed to death by t3 cloudy xelors which will only lead to further nerfs of this class in the future.

And finally, AP reduction builds are getting considerable nerfs too. With Mummification, clock and spontaneous return all being core parts of this build, nerfed. Still, with lavasmith the way it is, this might be continue to be the best option left. Which i think personally its kind of unfortunate, for the xelor players and for their opponents too.

I thank the very few that actually read all that. I now hope that some other people will share their thoughts on the 2.59 xelor changes just on the (seemingly) very off chance any devs see this.

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When I was testing with the changes to damage on Beta, many of the spells hadn't been changed yet so the period for testing was short and it wasn't made clear to when these changes would take place. Especially since re-setting is costly and takes time.

Surrounding overall spell and build changes, agility looks much more appealing again, although the numerous changes the class has had especially due to comments over dam-spells that can be easily countered is a huge blow. I also feel there was no need for the Mummification changes with effects and cast limits on both ap reduction centered spells and damge spells.
The single cast on Hand I'm a bit saddened by, as x2 Hand was previously a good choice for spending ap with ranged fights as one of the few non-linear ranged spells that dealt decent damage. Specifically on turns where going it close may of been too dangerous, although the increased damage on its second cast is a nice surprise.

Only x2 cast on Spont-Return and the reduced range is a massive nerf, which ultimately results in an Xelor being able to use it twice for positioning and telefragging. The large changes to its range will result in Rhol-Back having to be used more for ranged fights, if a player wants to run Spont-Return. It just feels like Xelors are being promoted as a close to mid range fighter without any sustain by a result of the range nerf.
I am currently playing on Temporis-5 with my guild, I did have a quick look on a poutch but overall I wasn't best pleased with the focused nerfs and just went straight onto the event server. My Xelors overall damage for the first two turns has been reduced by 2.7-3k, before adding any ress. The reduction in damage is also the cause of disruption becoming 3ap from 2 which also adds to the reduction.

Even as a part Int and the high ress/dam my Xelor had, the Lavasmith Dofus still gave another character class with an unmaged set an advantage simply because of its mechanics.
I feel the activation limit on the Lavasmith should be two rather then three as it already gives pushback ress.
For ap reduction/chance, it seems Cras are much more direct and effective which makes Xelors partially redundant by comparison, and questionably less effective at taking ap now then chance Rogues or strength/agility Fecas.

For PvM the alteration may mean that agility with teleport may be a better option, especially with the increased range on Frostbite and the damage options from other spells.
As it stands, I feel as though playing a int/str Xelor is going to be a uphill struggle, due to disjointed spells that sparsely have synergy with each other because of the drastic changes to their ap cost range+damage.

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