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The Hero of Plants vs Veriun Dead horrible AI

By kiromanza#2711 - SUBSCRIBER - December 16, 2017, 12:00:08

As the title says, the necroses have horrible AI, they tend to rush to attack a monster instead of standing on mediocore range (because they can't attack in cc so in my opinion they should have the brain to realise it is bad idea to go closer) few times they chose to attack the long range invulnerable monster instead of the monster that had 50%dmg sustained effect and overall.. necroses simply rush too much considering the fact they can't defend themselves in close combat... i even had a case where i killed my FIRST monster turn 7 and that was because i killed it.. the necroses didn\t land more than 6 hits in total the whole fight. Is this intended or is it some kind of bug with their AI? I hope it is not intended.. because only 1 time i could keep them far away and that was only 1 sunflower and 1 necrose all the rest rushed. After more tries i found a bug i suppose. I used my necronyx spell on my sunflower ut i couldn't use it next turn again (like it is intended to). And in addition that's what my necrose decided to do for second turn in a row

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First Ankama intervention

We've tried to improve the Necrose's AI somewhat with yesterday's maintenance. Could you please let us know if that is not enough to make a difference?

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We've tried to improve the Necrose's AI somewhat with yesterday's maintenance. Could you please let us know if that is not enough to make a difference?

Score : 72
No it's not enough. Now the necrose doesnt even do damage anymore. It poisons ONLY instead and rushes in again. They even rush more than before the maintenance. BUT I feel like the dandelion is doing a little bit better after the update, so at least something I guess. Anyways the monsters from this area are too powerfull in this questfight. They reduce damage in AOE, shield in AOE (not gonna talk about the fact they shield more than the rose can actually do damage), take your range and deal super high amount of damage which is pretty unfair against a suicidal rose, dandelion that actually takes 1 MP (sometimes in AOE if you're lucky enough) and a sunflower that shields for 550 (?!). Also having a fight against mobs that have almost 7k HP with flowers that have only 5k and troll you all the time isn't really balanced. At least make it so we don't pass the turn after using the spell and don't lose energy everytime we die. It's just not fair at all. Like 95% people I know just lost will to do this quest fight and they gave up on this achievement. Buff the flowers or nerf the monsters, thank you :blink:
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Score : 609

I'm sorry, but this fight isn't supposed to be a walk in the park. I'll happily support an improvement to the plant's AI, but they themselves do not need to be buffed (straight after the update the roses had a habit of hitting the invulnerable monsters). The roses do a lot of damage, and I mean a lot.  The plants themselves are capable of winning the fight if you're getting necronyx onto the mob.

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Score : 72

I'm sorry but for me the roses are doing like 1k dmg after the update. Before they did around 2k dmg, but now they only use their poison and they do less dmg than Dedbomb shields so it's kinda not good. I'm not saying it's supposed to be a walk in the park, but it shouldn't be so depressing. Roses simply rush in and die in like 4th turn, that's it.

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Score : 2035

The sunflowers regularly commit suicide for me too....also...why is it that the "boss" or lead monster here is smart enough to run away from you to cast his large AoE spell doing 500-1k damage to everyone, but half my flowers will pass their turn, or run up without hitting each turn?

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Score : 1057

After some testing i can say that the AI of the sunflower is overall very good. Nothing like this can be said for necrosis though, the poison is not bad, when stacked it can do over 2000 dmg a turn so i'd say the damage is still very good, but there is still the problem that necrosis suicide... they go next to the enemies and get killed very fast because of how fragile they are. I even had tries where i hardly killed 1 monster before both necroses were dead that's how stupid they can be. The main problem still stays and it is that necroses simply rush too much, i still think the fight is prety much balanced since the damage of the necroses is so huge. My best try so far is 3 survivors and 2 of them were at very low health so it is still possible, but i couldn't reproduce this fight.

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Score : 2035

A couple of other things: sometimes the roses choose to use their AoE vine attack instead of poison....and instead of hitting anything good, it does between 200-300 damage? The single target vine attack still does a lot of damage (up to 1800)...but...why doesn't it use this attack more often? Sometimes when roses are low health, they can finish off an enemy if they use vine attacks, but as they ALWAYS seem to prioritize poison, they often die before poison can take affect....please improve this AI...this fight has destroyed my patience...

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Score : 1057

Nevermind.. i won it easily 2 tries later, without any plants dying almost.... btw use necrosys on the blop when enemies are around it, it helps A LOT, also it tanks a lot and i feel lik when monsters focus the blop the other monsters don't rush as much and poison stacks up A LOT.

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Score : 72

I don't know but I'm still stucked at this quest and I tried like 200 times already. It's really depressing to see how the roses STILL rush in and do weird stuff like hitting long range invulnerable monster or literally just refuses to use any of it's AP even tho it has range and everything. How is someone like me (sadida) able to win this fight when we have 0 chances to keep the flowers and monsters away or in some spots we really want to (like for example letting the blue thing tank the mobs and keep healing and dmging roses in the back)? It's literally killing me from the inside that something like this keeps me away from doing other quests, achievements and so on.

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Score : 2128

I decided to bump this thread seeing as in 8 months no significant changes have been made. I'll start by saying that I rarely, if ever, complain about these fights since they're generally challenging and hard, yet never impossible. I can't say the same for this one, sadly.

This fight has many problems. The only passable allies of ours are the sunflowers, who, when Necro'd, heal/shield appropriately. The rest of the allies are depressingly futile.

The dandelions are completely useless. Removing 1ap from endgame monsters doesn't make a dent since they have another 11ap from which (some) can ditch out almost 2k damage. They're equally useless when Necro'd, so that says something. These guys should do damage, otherwise, might as well just remove them from the fight.

The roses are mediocre but can become pretty good when Necro'd. The problem is that:
1) They have very low range, so, as people mentioned above, they can be thought of as suicidal since they have to rush towards monsters to land a hit.
2) They have very low hp. 5k hp with mediocre res against 6~8k hp monsters with decent res? Really?
3) They don't hit when they're close to monsters. I've had roses simply pass their turn when in contact with monsters since they don't want to suffer the reflects. Imagine being all hyped to see some damage only for them to skip their turn. Ridiculous.

The blue blop is mediocre as well. It's a good block to have but even when Necro'd, it gets annihilated in a couple of turns at most. Some say that it Necros other monsters when it is Necro'd itself but it never happened to me.

Oh my, what a disaster of a fight. Where shall we begin.

We've got waaaay too many things to Necro. Seeing as none of our allies are even remotely functional without being Necro'd, I'd say buff them appropriately so they can actually make a difference. The roses need way more range, hp and resistances.  The dandelions should be replaced by either blops or, even better, roses. They serve no purpose whatsoever right now. The sunflowers are ok.

The monsters are way more powerful than the devs realize. Dedbomb (?) rises up to 9k hp as well as being able to hit from range and in aoe. Others are invulnerable from range completely. Some even give 2k shields in aoe. Not to mention that monsters are revived completely unless Necro'd. And us players are fiddling with dandelions that remove 1ap? What are we even talking about here?

The fight is absurd right now. We should be able to Necro allies multiple times without ending our turn. Plants have to be seriously buffed (vit, res, range, dmg...everything). Remove the dandelions and introduce more roses, or at the very least, more blops. In 7 turns almost none of my characters managed to kill one single monster. One.

It's disappointing to reach this dead end, seeing as I was thoroughly enjoying this questline until now. I concur with Eliinator in that such a questfight makes me want to close all Dofus tabs and forget the game completely, for my mental wellbeing if anything. Personally, I can say that this is the end of this questline for me, barring any significant updates to this questfight.

I beg for some moderator or community manager to mull over what has been discussed in this thread and pass it on to a developer since the facts/results are hard to ignore. If anyone has any idea on how to tackle this fight differently, feel free but I feel like I've exercised all my options. Sorry for the long post but I felt that it was necessary.

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Score : 1664

I tried this fight like 3 times 6 months ago and was completely avoiding it until a few days ago. I was looking at french forums and someone posted a guide to the fight so I followed directions and managed to beat the fight on 8 characters with only dying 3 times.

I'll copy/paste his post but I only really needed the first 4/5 turns of it. essentially necro sunflowers and roses first 3-4 turns and ignore dandelions. Then usually somewhere between turn 4-5 necro the gloot when he's surrounded by enemies so necro spreads to enemies(good to get 3 of them). I'm pretty sure but not certain that necro spreads in a square around the gloot. After that make sure both sunflowers/roses are necroed and just necro the mobs as you go.

Still some luck involved ofc. dandelions sometimes like to run forward and die super fast. If they stay alive long time and get sunflower shields then they make good blocks by keeping a few mobs away while you get rid of the rest.
6mp+abyssal is helpful and using ivory it was easy not to worry about main char dying. And as the guy says get 3500 ini to go first and use his placement spots.

Here's the post:

Hello, I just finished this quest on my 5 characters (iop, eni, enu, cra, panda). I will try to tell you how I played, the placement used and maybe it will help you. 

Necessary before starting to have 3500 ini minimum as told by bcp of world. The spell Necronyx requires 3pa and passes his turn, keep that in mind. Regardless of the class, you will be mostly in support, hitting when there are opportunities but favor the boosts and Necronyx status on the allies. The Abyssal Dofus helped me a lot (+ 1pm at the beginning is really useful for placement). 

For all the fights I used this placement (from left to right depending on the boxes): 

Gloot - Rose - Sunflower - Rose - Sunflower - Class used - Dandelion - Dandelion. 

T1- The dandelions being very little useful I put them in cannon flesh to delay. With the class I return to the sunflowers and roses and I arrange to push them further (intimidation, arrow, carry / throw, word of fear ... etc). Necronyx is a sunflower or a rose. 

T2 - Try to repel your roses and sunflowers as well as the Gloot away from the monsters. Necronyx is either a sunflower or a rose that depends on what you have done before (but still complete either t1 sunflower pink t2, or pink t2 t2 sunflower Except eni or I made t1 pink and pink t2). 

T3 - Necronyx is either a sunflower or a rose, I chose the rose as we begin to be near the monsters. 

T4- Depending on the placement of monsters and Gloot (if possible the Gloot with monsters around him 2in max), it might be interesting to expose a little for Necronyx the Gloot and thus apply the Necronyx state to all the monsters around from him and those 2po from him. Otherwise Necronyx the last useful monster (either pink or sunflower). 

T5 - If the Gloot has not been Necronyx, keep an eye on him and his placement to apply the state to him as efficiently as possible. Type the monsters. 

T6-T7-T8 ... etc - Mtn it will be to stay alive, but especially to keep the roses and sunflowers alive, privilege the placement and the application of the Necronyx state on the enemies to avoid to be submerged. 

Iop - 8 tried:I have a lot of room for bullying. And if not damage and boosts roses. As for the spells used, nothing special. 

Eni - 2 attempted: Placement with the Word of Fear. I have Necronyx T1 and T2 roses, and then sunflowers. I have replaced Stimulating Word with self-abnegation and I have boosted the roses with, the gift of pa is useless. Otherwise damage and care. 

Enu - 10  tenta : The hardest and tilting thing to pass clearly. Removing Pm on roses and sunflowers to slow their advance. Spam the shovel / bag invocations etc. Removing pm from the enemy. Damage, pray very hard for a decent AI. 

Cra - 3 tried:Placement with the arrows (scatter, recoil, scathing), Necronyx directly the two roses T1 and T2, boost PO on the roses, eye mole on the enemies, and help to type and place Necronyx on the enemies. 

Panda - 1 tenta: The simplest clearly. Wearing / throwing allows you to do whatever you want with your allies. Spam Summon, Necronyx Allied / Enemy state, and damage / placement. 

This is basically I hope to have been helpful, good luck to those who are above. 

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Score : 2128

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain how you one and what I should do to win but it seems that we're fighting a completely different fight. I went with his advice and got 3.5k ini and it significantly helped re-shape the direction of the fight- at first. I equipped an Abyssal as well but not an Ivory since I don't have one.

For starters, my gloot doesn't Necro other monsters at all (even when Necro'd itself). Never. The fight is impossible for me since I have to Necro basically every ally and enemy on the map, except for the useless dandelions. Apart from this, I have to keep the monsters away while simultaneously keeping the roses from suiciding.

Also, a little point I'd like to make is that you said, "Then usually somewhere between turn 4-5 necro the gloot when he's surrounded by enemies so necro spreads to enemies(good to get 3 of them)."

This confirmed to me that absolutely nothing is working out for me since I cannot relate to this sentence at all. Between turn 4 and 5, the gloot is either dead, or on the verge of being so, caught in a sea of monsters slapping at its face. Not only is turn 4 or 5 way too late for me to Necro it, I'd have to put myself in serious danger for me to do so. Even if I managed to somehow pull off this miracle, again, it never Necro's other enemies anyway.

Thanks for trying to help but it's like I'm fighting a different fight altogether.

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Score : 340

This fight is no fun at all, just depressing, and should be altered !

some nodes from me for people struggleing with it:
Ensure roses dont get -range or they try to tank smile
Necro Healers first, then Damagers. Take Rapers as meatshield.
Keep gloot away until you got at least both healers necro'd.
Prevent gloot from walking the right "tighter" way. He needs to go left and block the passtrough by tanking at least three ! When he is surrounded by at least three, necro him and then (and only one time) he will AE-necro all surrounded enemies.
Its not nececcary to do damage or heal with your char, all can be done by your flowers!
Good map manipulation skills are required, though
(did this fight with panda, enu, eni, cra)

Good luck smile 

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