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Multi-Client Restrictions

By discarder - SUBSCRIBER - March 09, 2011, 21:23:09

Multi-client users appear to have a great deal of advantages in the Dofus game, they can do more, they can do it faster, they can do it more often, and they become elitists and gods doing so. This is the general vibe this disingenuous gets when conversing with other people, be it here on the forums, in the Mibbit IRC, or Imps Village. This disingenuous person sees that the person who is willing to do anything is also willing to do whatever it takes to get anything accomplished. The advantages of a multi-client user is a monetary one, they have the needed funds to pay for multiple subscriptions and the PC strength to run those multiple accounts, and Due to outcries from other clients, this is too great an advantage and needs to be placed in check.
The advantages one gains for subscribing for 1 account are listed here (Click here). These are the same advantages that a person can get for subscribing multiple accounts, as each account has access to the same benefits; however, Ankama feels that the multiple advantages gained because someone has the ability to subscribe for and play multiple accounts is far too great in terms of PvP. So they intend to balance it out by a restriction placed on machines to only allow 1 account complete access at any time to a particular aspect of the game at the same time.

What Izmar has considered full circles on 2 occasions, and resorted to naming me as a disingenuous person because I feel that the ideology is in effect wrong. She says that an 8 man team played by 1 person is vastly superior to an 8 man team played by 8 people, and in effect God can not play exhibition matches with mere mortal people. I feel that an 8 man team against another 8 man team is a fair fight, because both teams have 8 men on them, regardless of it being 1 man playing on 1 team of 8, and 8 men playing on the other team of 8; it's still 8 people on both sides.

If I play only one account, I am responsible for that account, for everything that it does in game, and the reputation it inherits from the actions taken in the game; and I am bound to that. By the same token, if I play on 8 accounts, I held to the same standards; just 8 times over. Yes, by playing more accounts you increase your availability to do things, and that if you can reach a full team status you can grind your way through the game that much faster. But this is an advantage that has to be paid for, some way, shape, and form; because nothing is ever truly free.

I am angry that I no longer have a choice in what I do; as I do not trust other people well enough to do what I have been able to do for myself; and it appears that because of this antisocial/introverted style of play is highly frowned upon. When they changed the system for PvP to restrict it from having "ganged" fights they limited it by machine. When they changed the system for the Prism PvP, they used the same technique so that 1 person couldn't "farm" their wings from them. Now they will introduce it to Percs. Many solo accounting people will have a heyday over this because percs will once again be allowed in the boss rooms of dungeons. Many multiple accounting people will see this as a restriction because it takes away from their vision of a "team" PvP experience. The stakes are just too high for 1 person to have all the fun, according to Izmar and Ankama.

No matter what this disingenuous person says, it's going to happen, and then a real question comes to mind; will it stop or will the restriction go further to include all aspects of the game? Sure you can have multiple accounts, but we will limit you to playing 1 account at a time regardless. I don't care, because I am a disingenuous person, but I am more so an opinionated person.

It is my opinion that if you have the means to play multiple accounts and do the work needed for each account, do so; if not, do what you can. It is also my opinion that if you have the means to play multiple accounts but don't wish to; do that. It's about enjoyment, it's a game; so fun is what you want, it's what you paid for in the end. It's all about what you are willing to pay for.

I would much rather see "team" PvP between 1 man armies than see Ankama give more of an OK to the sanction-able offense of account sharing. This change, because it is stated that the restriction will be to a machine, will in effect encourage people to share accounts instead of making their own accounts; to circumvent the system. Because Ankama has given their official stand on that they will not help you in the event of "theft" they has also given their consent to do it "at your own risk". I would much rather test my team playing abilities with my team than some make shift team. But only other players are crying that an 8 man team controlled by one person is too advantagous, not the mobs which that same person has to fight.

I personally play on 4 accounts along side my wife and her 4 accounts, we both know what we are capable of in any given situation. This restriction doesn't limit her and I to 1 of our 4 accounts as it should, as we haven't been able to do anything that we should be able to do from different machines. This system is somehow flawed in that aspect, as she should be allowed 1 account to enter a prism fight with me from a separate computer; which it sadly doesn't. It doesn't allow us to do anything PvP related under the system in place, which is only getting extended reaches. So it's a great system to use.

Maybe because I live in the real world where everyone has an advantage over the next person I don't see this change as fair. I can't tell the millionaire down the street he can't have 12 offshore bank accounts because I can't afford to keep my 1 account in the black. I can't tell the pro sports player at the end of the block to quit playing sports because I am uncoordinated enough to play. I have the ability to think in a very illogical way that gets the same end result but by a different manner than the logical thinker, even if it comes off as being combative, defensive, rude, or even disingenuous.

P.S. I have been polite Izmar, I may not have been pleasant, but I was polite. We can go full circle as many times as needed, because this change affects me. I don't always go attack a perc with my team, I don't always win with my team when I do; but I have always had the choice to do it with my team. I am all for allowing the percs in the last room of a dungeon and even happy for the increased defense; however, I am enraged that I can not use my team as I have paid for under the guise of "socialism". Being social doesn't mean that you have to do something with someone else. You are being social when you talk, you don't have to go around the corner and have nookie. You are being social when you play with your children at the park like other parents do, it doesn't mean that you need to play with every child there. I am being social when I type up this long winded post, it doesn't mean that I am disingenuous because I have I find it angering to be told I no longer have a choice to do it with my team.

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Score : 2290

I agree with everything he said. I don't want all my p2p accounts except 1 sitting around and doing nothing when I want to pvp. ESPECIALLY if I am at someone else's house that is also playing Dofus, then only 1 of us can fight a perc? That will totally take out any fun that there was before.

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Score : 5164
discarder|2011-03-09 21:23:09
(snip)
tl;dr

Ankama makes too many profit of Multi-client, so don't worry.
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Score : 13209

Wow Discarder... if you're an intreverte, you sure can't tell it at the moment. wink

But I have to agree with a lot of your arguments. I to have people over and go to peoples houses to play Dofus in the same room. I actually had a 24 hour Dofusathon (as we called it) where 6 of my buddies all brought over their computer, and we networked all the computers together to play at the same place. It was an epic moment...lol. But to know that now if we do things like this, even on a much smaller scale, we are going to be highly limited... well, that kind of stinks. If my buddies and I run a big dungeon, find a perc in the last room, and want to kill it for possible epic drops... well, that's pretty much not an option now. sad

It's never too late to make changes to forecasted updates, and I too hope this is one that Ankama will either reconsider or revise.

Keeping my fingers crossed,
Benjamight

p.s. My wife and I play together too... I totally feel your frustration.

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Score : 866

I understand that most people who multi client aren't social enough to make friends and do things with, I understand that most of these people with real life social problems found Dofus as an exit. But it does not mean that because of these people the fairness of a game should be destroyed, even though it has been destroyed since the beginning. Unfortunately Dofus was all dominated by those who like to do things on their own and use the game as MSN only, while people who choose to play one account have problems and usually give up before reaching the good levels.

The multi clienting and PvM grinding might be different because it does not affect the other players directly, but perceptor attacks do. In fact putting perceptors in a dungeon is mostly a way for those who do not use more than one account to get mats without bothering their friends and armies. This is going to be good change by one side, the bad thing is that only high level and strong guilds will be able to leave perceptors in last rooms.

Yet, I believe that since the game had this problem since the beginning, the lack of restriction now became one of the most common things in the game. The Outlaws became the Law, and the only way now, on my point of view, is to create a server for those who like to play a fair game and leave the unfair game to the other players without limiting things like that.

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Score : 13209
Niddhoggy|2011-03-09 22:16:48
I understand that most people who multi client aren't social enough to make friends and do things with, I understand that most of these people with real life social problems found Dofus as an exit. But it does not mean that because of these people the fairness of a game should be destroyed, even though it has been destroyed since the beginning. Unfortunately Dofus was all dominated by those who like to do things on their own and use the game as MSN only, while people who choose to play one account have problems and usually give up before reaching the good levels.

The multi clienting and PvM grinding might be different because it does not affect the other players directly, but perceptor attacks do. In fact putting perceptors in a dungeon is mostly a way for those who do not use more than one account to get mats without bothering their friends and armies. This is going to be good change by one side, the bad thing is that only high level and strong guilds will be able to leave perceptors in last rooms.

Yet, I believe that since the game had this problem since the beginning, the lack of restriction now became one of the most common things in the game. The Outlaws became the Law, and the only way now, on my point of view, is to create a server for those who like to play a fair game and leave the unfair game to the other players without limiting things like that.
I don't mean to sound rude Nidd... but do you understand the meaning of "fair"? There is nothing "unfair" about running more than one account... are you telling me that if money and PC capacity wasn't an issue, you wouldn't run more than 1 account? If you think they get all the advantages, what would keep you from doing it? The fact is, it is a concept 100% allowed (even though becoming restricted) by Ankama... that means it's 100% fair. There are no rules being broken. We are not going around "beating up the single account users and stealing their kama's", as many seem to make it sound. We are playing the game the way we like it, and you are playing the game the way you like it. It has nothing to do with fair or unfair.

I usually like to run things myself, because it does move faster, I don't have to "aie" between starting each fight, and I don't have to wait on "brb's" that occur every other room. I am 100% in the "social" side of things as well, as I chat and help guildies all the time. When single account users try to run something big, you know who they contact...? Me. Just yesterday, I got asked to run SO dungeon with a team. They told me their team consisted of 3 players, UNDER level 100... guess who they were expecting to pick up the slack? Me. And you know what, I didn't mind... that's why I run multiple accounts. Because I enjoy it, I can afford it, and I can help pull together a full team MUCH faster than several single account users trying to time things right.

I have nothing against you playing just a single account. I don't look down on you, speak badly of you, or think poorly of you... I would hope you'd give me the same respect. I'm not cheating, breaking the rules, or being unfair. I (like you) play the game the way I like it, and try to help my MMO friends do the same.

Best of luck,
Benjamight biggrin 
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Score : 866
Benja-might|2011-03-09 22:26:24
Niddhoggy|2011-03-09 22:16:48
I understand that most people who multi client aren't social enough to make friends and do things with, I understand that most of these people with real life social problems found Dofus as an exit. But it does not mean that because of these people the fairness of a game should be destroyed, even though it has been destroyed since the beginning. Unfortunately Dofus was all dominated by those who like to do things on their own and use the game as MSN only, while people who choose to play one account have problems and usually give up before reaching the good levels.

The multi clienting and PvM grinding might be different because it does not affect the other players directly, but perceptor attacks do. In fact putting perceptors in a dungeon is mostly a way for those who do not use more than one account to get mats without bothering their friends and armies. This is going to be good change by one side, the bad thing is that only high level and strong guilds will be able to leave perceptors in last rooms.

Yet, I believe that since the game had this problem since the beginning, the lack of restriction now became one of the most common things in the game. The Outlaws became the Law, and the only way now, on my point of view, is to create a server for those who like to play a fair game and leave the unfair game to the other players without limiting things like that.
I don't mean to sound rude Nidd... but do you understand the meaning of "fair"? There is nothing "unfair" about running more than one account... are you telling me that if money and PC capacity wasn't an issue, you wouldn't run more than 1 account? If you think they get all the advantages, what would keep you from doing it? The fact is, it is a concept 100% allowed (even though becoming restricted) by Ankama... that means it's 100% fair. There are no rules being broken. We are not going around "beating up the single account users and stealing their kama's", as many seem to make it sound. We are playing the game the way we like it, and you are playing the game the way you like it. It has nothing to do with fair or unfair.

I usually like to run things myself, because it does move faster, I don't have to "aie" between starting each fight, and I don't have to wait on "brb's" that occur every other room. I am 100% in the "social" side of things as well, as I chat and help guildies all the time. When single account users try to run something big, you know who they contact...? Me. Just yesterday, I got asked to run SO dungeon with a team. They told me their team consisted of 3 players, UNDER level 100... guess who they were expecting to pick up the slack? Me. And you know what, I didn't mind... that's why I run multiple accounts. Because I enjoy it, I can afford it, and I can help pull together a full team MUCH faster than several single account users trying to time things right.

I have nothing against you playing just a single account. I don't look down on you, speak badly of you, or think poorly of you... I would hope you'd give me the same respect. I'm not cheating, breaking the rules, or being unfair. I (like you) play the game the way I like it, and try to help my MMO friends do the same.

Best of luck,
Benjamight biggrin

I don't play a single account. I actually play 2 accounts just and I am planning on a third because on my server if you are a solo accounter you will not be able to do 1/10 the multi accounters are able to do.

It is unfair because people get more advantage just it. Faster dungeons, no interruptions, etc. I just think that the game could be much more social and interesting. The way it is now only makes it possible for multi accounters enjoy the whole game.
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Score : 2008

Well, I had a nice reply. But since Ankama can't program their forum software worth a darn, when I hit preview it just logged me out instead. How about we stop making retarded in game policy changes, and actually put some of these millions into fixing glitches that have existed forever?

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Score : 13209
Niddhoggy|2011-03-09 22:37:34
Benja-might|2011-03-09 22:26:24
Niddhoggy|2011-03-09 22:16:48
I understand that most people who multi client aren't social enough to make friends and do things with, I understand that most of these people with real life social problems found Dofus as an exit. But it does not mean that because of these people the fairness of a game should be destroyed, even though it has been destroyed since the beginning. Unfortunately Dofus was all dominated by those who like to do things on their own and use the game as MSN only, while people who choose to play one account have problems and usually give up before reaching the good levels.

The multi clienting and PvM grinding might be different because it does not affect the other players directly, but perceptor attacks do. In fact putting perceptors in a dungeon is mostly a way for those who do not use more than one account to get mats without bothering their friends and armies. This is going to be good change by one side, the bad thing is that only high level and strong guilds will be able to leave perceptors in last rooms.

Yet, I believe that since the game had this problem since the beginning, the lack of restriction now became one of the most common things in the game. The Outlaws became the Law, and the only way now, on my point of view, is to create a server for those who like to play a fair game and leave the unfair game to the other players without limiting things like that.
I don't mean to sound rude Nidd... but do you understand the meaning of "fair"? There is nothing "unfair" about running more than one account... are you telling me that if money and PC capacity wasn't an issue, you wouldn't run more than 1 account? If you think they get all the advantages, what would keep you from doing it? The fact is, it is a concept 100% allowed (even though becoming restricted) by Ankama... that means it's 100% fair. There are no rules being broken. We are not going around "beating up the single account users and stealing their kama's", as many seem to make it sound. We are playing the game the way we like it, and you are playing the game the way you like it. It has nothing to do with fair or unfair.

I usually like to run things myself, because it does move faster, I don't have to "aie" between starting each fight, and I don't have to wait on "brb's" that occur every other room. I am 100% in the "social" side of things as well, as I chat and help guildies all the time. When single account users try to run something big, you know who they contact...? Me. Just yesterday, I got asked to run SO dungeon with a team. They told me their team consisted of 3 players, UNDER level 100... guess who they were expecting to pick up the slack? Me. And you know what, I didn't mind... that's why I run multiple accounts. Because I enjoy it, I can afford it, and I can help pull together a full team MUCH faster than several single account users trying to time things right.

I have nothing against you playing just a single account. I don't look down on you, speak badly of you, or think poorly of you... I would hope you'd give me the same respect. I'm not cheating, breaking the rules, or being unfair. I (like you) play the game the way I like it, and try to help my MMO friends do the same.

Best of luck,
Benjamight biggrin

I don't play a single account. I actually play 2 accounts just and I am planning on a third because on my server if you are a solo accounter you will not be able to do 1/10 the multi accounters are able to do.

It is unfair because people get more advantage just it. Faster dungeons, no interruptions, etc. I just think that the game could be much more social and interesting. The way it is now only makes it possible for multi accounters enjoy the whole game.
You've been converted. laugh
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Score : 2008

Here's what I had to say almost a year ago, which I still mostly agree with. Except now I'm getting bitter at all those who keep whining about those who do choose to run multiple accounts.

Perceptors over all are cheesy by nature, they need a complete overhaul in my opinion... A creature that sits on a map and collects drops for virtually nothing? Maybe you should pick your Perc up instead of hogging a map all day and night? Percs are so cheesy Ankama only allows 2 people to defend them in a dungeon. Or how about when that really high level guild deliberately Percs the spot you are hunting at while you are actually hunting there? Should you have to go find enough friends to take it down, or is it fair that you use your alts to get it off your map? I'll counter your Perc suggestion with one of my own; the higher the level the guild, the less people allowed to defend the Perc.

I also disagree with your assumption that it is "easier to coordinate" a group of alts over a group of real people. This goes back to the crew you hang with. When we Perc hunt, it's the same as anything else, what characters do we need, and who has them? Usually there will be 3 to 4 of us, running with our alts as well. If you can't cooperate with your guild to defend, that's not the fault of people running multiple accounts. People who run multiple accounts also don't stop you from finding better teams to work with in attacking Percs, and they certainly have no control over your ability to cooperate with others.

What really irks me about people who complain about those who have multiple accounts, is that they always forget how much they benefit from it. Very often it's those of us with multiple accounts who farm those precious resources to make that gear you want to wear, or those diamonds you want to buy. Our maxed out high level characters don't need most of what we drop, and it's that which we put in bundles into the sell room.

I can understand your frustration, and I sympathize with your discontent. However, this game has always allowed multiple accounts, you would have read that when you signed up (assuming you actually read the ToS, and browsed the forums). This really all comes down to the company you keep, though. Find more alike minded players to play with, develop a good team, and learn to cooperate.

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ph34rI agree with everything the original poster had to say and to me this is more about Ankama taking its head out of its backside and decide once and for all if is this game going to allow for multi accting with full service or just stop it completely. This abuse we the customers are suffering for a game we pay for is absurd. This game has been out of beta for some many years and it is still being treated by the developers as if it is in Beta. Hind site, which it seems the developers have none. Would have shown that it would have been better for them to buff a few classes and focus on taking the game even further then level 200 but it seems clear they are focused on slowing us down and hoping we will continue to be dumb enough to accept these decisions. I spend close to 800 dollars a year playing this game in fact even more. But i am at the point with all this crap they keep dishing out of saying WOW hear i come.
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Score : 1286
discarder|2011-03-09 21:23:09
What Izmar has considered full circles on 2 occasions, and resorted to naming me as a disingenuous person because I feel that the ideology is in effect wrong.

Seriously? I like Izmar and all, but that's seriously uncalled for. She works for Ankama and should take all complaints with a fake smile. Like a flight waitress. You're a customer.

As for your opinion, I completely agree with you. The multi-accounters still have to work for their sets, and they pay more money. Solo-accounters, you get what you pay for. So pay for a better computer or pay for more subscriptions. It's how life works. This is unfair to the multi-accounters who have spent so many hours putting effort in to creating a team.

And this is coming from someone who only uses two accounts. I'm completely fine with the teams of 8 running around under the command of one person.
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I was going to type up a long reply, but I'm tired. So i'll make it short and sweet.

  1. I currently log 2 accounts at a time and I love doing it.
  2. I don't multilog for pvp because I'm generally bad at pvp unless im doing group pvps with guildies (perc fights).
  3. People don't mind that I log 2 accounts, at all.
  4. Logging only 2 accounts means i can still let other friends, guildies, or random players join in any hunts or whatever.
  5. Yeah gather mats and resources is a lot easier, but I worked hard to level both of my characters so I deserve what i can get.
  6. I'm PAYING for 2 p2p accounts.. Why would Amkana restrict a great source of money inflow... I know tons of ppl that multilog. Getting rid of it would only lower their profits and player numbers.
I guess I would just have to get over it, but i really hope they don't do any multilogging restrictions.
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Score : 133

I'm a soloclienter and I don't like these changes.

FIrst off, people need to stop with the antisocial accusations and stereotypes. For those of you flinging them around on the forum, you are severely uneducated. Antisocial (ASPD) is a personality disorder that has nothing to do with how many Dofus accounts you subscribe. For god sakes, read up about it before you use the term ignorantly and idiotically. It's a disorder that begins in puberty, not when you turn on the computer and log into your second account.

From the perspective of a soloclienter, there is very little truth to the verbal slander against multiclienters. I routinely experience the fact that the the game is full of social retards. And they aren't limited to multiclienters. There are just as many soloclienters that can't interact with others appropriately. I could spend hours recounting stories of how these idiots have gotten me killed in game. Just yesterday, I tried running Kimbo dungeon with a bunch of random strangers from the /r channel. One player kept asking if another player was female, and where she lived. When she refused to give the kid her name, he starting spouting profanities at her. When others in the group asked him to stop and pay attention (he was ignoring his turn) he decided to turn his pathetic tantrum on the rest of the team by swapping one of us onto a snail glyph and then attacking Kimbo. Needless to say, we all died in the last room after spending more than an hour in the dungeon because of a socially retarded soloclienter.

When crap like this happens, I am tempted to create my own alternate accounts. Is it because I'm a social retard? No! It's because I don't want to waste my subscription money and time doing activities that are ultimately destined to fail because some idiot can't get over his childhood trauma.

I don't have a second account yet because I enjoy playing with friends and family. Some are real life friends, and some are friends I've met in game. Now I won't be able to go perc hunting with my friends and cousins at our college or the Starbucks next door because of IP restrictions. And my online friends live in different countries and time zones and it's nearly impossible for the planets to align long enough to do anything useful. The /r channel is a joke because if you ever manage to gather a team after days or weeks of spamming your request, you usually end up with a social retard like the one described above that ends up ruining your run and taking an hour and a half out of your day.

So no, multiclienters are not the reason that socially retarded solocienters have no friends and can't control themselves long enough to be invited to do something with a group. An no, multiclineters aren't the reason that it's so hard to get a group together to get anything accomplished. So there is no reason to limit multiclienter privileges when they pay the same subscription fees I do. There are countless other reasons that contribute to the grindy, endless, spinning your wheels feel to this game.

The fact is, the game has some glaring problems that need to be fixed to make it more group friendly in both PvP and PvM. Looking back through endless posts on this forum, it looks like these problems have been around for years, and they haven't been addressed, even though the community has begged for changes. Fix those, and the player base might actually be more inclined to play with strangers and less inclined to resort to making additional accounts to get the job done.

I don't have faith that any of this will happen though. In fact, I'm guessing this very thread will be locked and set to invisible very soon. The Ankama communist regime will silence all those who speak out and voice their opinions in a civilized matter, as they always do. The egotistic developers are going to do whatever they want to do, and nobody is going to persuade them to do any differently. Once again, the Ankama staff will flex their mighty penises and show us who's in charge.

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Score : 322

i use 2 clients but i use kamas to pay for them, i mean someone paid the money for the things i buy to get the sub so in a way i still paid for it right?

if i don't want to talk to people i'm not going to talk to people regardless of if you take that away or not, i think alot of humanity is stupid anyway and right now amkana is looking dumber than usual. Just to let them know if they do this i won't be subscribing anymore cause i'll be taking my business elsewhere, like a private server that doesn't have this restriction and you don't have to pay for just to be banned for moving to a different state.

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Score : 5086

The issues I have with the changes are that I no longer can defend percs. I generally don't do PvP but when farming certain mats, I place a perc on the map I am on and have had occasions when somebody was rude enough to hit a perc while I was there. Taking away the possibility for me to defend that perc is anything else but an improvement.

My stance is like that of the original poster. Instead of generally punishing people for spending money by subscribing multiple accounts, Ankama should just clamp down on account sharing. Most people with attitude issues in the game are among those that can barely afford one account but get seven more from other people. Usually, people who pay for their own group of accounts are more mature and thus not those who clash with others. There are exceptions to both sides but it is a general trend, I believe.

With a lot of changes made by Ankama, the money people like myself spend by subscribing several accounts incurs an inflation way beyond that of the actual market rate. Ankama happily take the money off us for subscribing but don't use it to provide us with more value in the game but rather to pay somebody to think of how they could limit us. This is something they really should think over.

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Score : 7872

I understand what the OP is getting at, just thought I'd throw in an opinion from a different perspective:

I've been a solo-account player for about 5 years now, but the limitations get harder as you level up, so I have worked on getting a steady kama-flow going and am subbing 2 accounts using ogrines only. With a second account it will further increase my income, but countered by the need for extra gear/keys/etc. Just from a 2nd account alone, several options have been opened up to me for which I no longer need to get somebody else to be willing to help me out with an activity they would not have any interest in. Listing the advantages you get as a subscriber does not nearly cover the advantage multi-accounting has over solo-accounting. As you said the difference is a monetary one, but with ogrines it has been an option that is no longer limited to the "rich" as the average PC can at least handle 2-3 accounts.

As for the 8-man/1 player vs 8-man/8 players scenario, I still think the multi-accounter has a great advantage over the solo team. A multi-accounter's team is created, tailored and specialised according to the players needs and choice of strategy. The solo team has several random characters in, each with his play-style, habits and strategy. In-combat, the multi-accounter can easily adapt and formulate a new strategy to a change in the battle, it's harder for a team to regroup and decide what to do with the time ticking away. While it's not a god vs mortal scenario, it does give the multi-accounter an edge.

While not really an anti-social/introvert style of play, it IS a style that exceeds the level of efficiency that a solo-accounter can achieve, which is why it's not allowed in most MMORPG's. I personally think Ankama should never have allowed it to be implemented in the 1st place as it affected the game negatively in several ways IMO, but trying to limit it, now that it is firmly integrated into the game, will not have happy results with the player-base either.

As for the real-life comparison, comparing real-life to a RPG is always fail. No, real-life is not fair. Everybody knows that. Self-interest is the way forward. Not so when your running a game. Ankama HAS to try and make things fair, as it does not make sense to change the game in such a way that few can be kept happy while the rest are left in the dust. The whole idea of keeping a game succesfull is to appease the majority, and as I recall recently stated by Izmar, the multi-accounting population is a great deal smaller than the solo-accounters.

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Score : 5086

You do correctly highlight the advantages of running multiple accounts. However, there are HUGE disadvantages also. Having to kit out several characters is time-consuming, tedious AND very expensive. I have never had the top notch gear that people with one account had. In fact, I still don't for most part. Multi-accounters, if they don't use shared accounts anyway, probably more often use gear 'that does the job' as opposed to 'as good as it can possibly be'. Having to kit out one character is tough but kitting out a whole team is killing a lot of motivation. I essentially stopped playing when I reached the point that I had to farm Tynrils for more than a dozen ambers and Peki for four dozen fabrics. Then come to the point where you want/need to make a few Sucker Sets ... Yes, a big team can drop a lot but it also must drop a lot, a lot more than a single player to get to the same level of equipment. Yes, we can run dungeons easier because we don't have to recruit. But we also can't afford not to run things and just buy the stuff because we have a full team.

Overall, I believe it is very balanced. Multis gain advantages through paying more and essentially putting in more work to get their characters to the same status as a single-accounter. Once they reach that point, they will have an advantage. But up to that point, it takes a lot more energy. While there is nothing to help multis up to that point, it is easy to strip their advantages afterwards. So I don't think it is fair to treat us differently to everybody else. We are a minority but we are also a minority that pays more than the majority. You get what you pay for? Not in Dofus. In Dofus you get the less the more you pay.

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Hello again!

Ley - I appreciate that you are willing to go to great lengths to make your opinions about this issue heard. I have heard them, and I understand them. But you have not convinced me, and tactics like this post are exactly why. While we were discussing this on the IRC last night, I often felt that you were willing to say anything that you thought would let you "win" the discussion, and I told you when I felt that the discussion had strayed outside the realm of logical debate.

I'm sorry that I cannot agree with you in this case, but that is not my duty. My duty is to carry your opinions to the developers, and in return, communicate their decisions to you and the rest of the community.

I do believe that I understand your position very well. The CCM team often discusses the role of multi-accounts vs single-accounters during the course of our work. I can certainly empathize with your emotions and see the construction of the logic you've created - but the developers do not agree with your conculsions. I've explained their reasons to you on the IRC, but for the benefit of everyone else, I will restate my explainations to you, starting with the basic principles at stake.

  1. The developers do not wish to create an item mall game where victory can be made trivial by application of money.
  2. However, the developers do wish to give players as much freedom as possible to play the game as they would like to, especially if they are not rich in time - including using multiple accounts,which can give a player more options to explore in the game at the cost of extra money paid to Ankama; using Ogrines, which gives advantages for money in exchange for allowing others to play the entire game for free; or purchasing items like the premium package, which may give additional content or decorative items to enhance a character's appearance.
  3. The developers will do whatever they believe is necessary to balance a player's individual freedom to explore these available options with the overall power level, difficulty, and fairness of the game.

It is true that multi-accounting does not mean instant victory - I would never claim that is the case. However, in 8 v 8 team PvP, multi-accounters do have an advantage over teams of single-accounters (they can easily co-ordinate, there is no miscommunication, etc). The developers believe that advantage is too strong, and even though a multi-accounter has paid more than any single person on an 8-player team, the 8-player team has collectively paid the same amount as the multi-accounter. To allow a multi-accounting team an advantage to defeat another group of players that has the same monetary value to the company is unbalanced.

There are other issues tangled into this discussion, of course - the role of account sharing is a major concern - but because Ley is not an account sharer and this is his topic, it's probably best to not associate less legitimate forms of multi-accounting with his arguments. I mention them simply to point out that there is even more at play than the points Ley has raised.

I do not expect every player that uses multiple accounts to agree with the points I've made, any more than I expect every Eni, Cra, or Pandawa to agree with the readjustments to their classes which will arive at the end of the month. After all, you pay for your own accounts with hard-earned money or kamas. I don't take that lightly, and neither does Ankama. The money paid by single-accounting players is not taken lightly either.

Also, I know that for you personally, Ley, a great deal of how the perceptor restrictions will effect you depend on how certain aspects of the technical constraints in place function. I hope that you will be there at the beta server to let me know if they are working as intended. If they are not, I will do everything in my power to see that it's corrected.

I apologize to everyone for the huge text dump - but thank you for reading, and even more, for participating in these discussions. We may not always be able to agree, but they are valuable to me and to the developers. =)
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Score : 2703

Yes Izmar, I will go to great lengths to be heard. While in the 2 IRC sessions, I often felt that I was getting blown off with rhetoric and being told to go away. The logical realm of debate ended on several notes, when it was stated by you that there can not or will not be a Zone 48 for the International Forums, or a member on the Zone 48 forum who doesn't speak French because of the language barrier. It also ended when it became or felt blatantly obvious that no matter what was said, it was not something that would be passed along to those in charge as the official verdict was already in. How exactly can there be a debate when there is nothing in fact to debate upon?

I know it's not your duty to agree with me, and I whole heartedly accept that. But as you stated, it is your duty to carry on my opinions to the developers and be the liaison between the customers and the company. Have you actually taken my very opinionated opinion to them? If so, who was it, and how can they be reached and the debate taken to them directly? Unless you are in a cubicle right next to them and are talking to them while typing in the IRC I don't see exactly how you carried on my opinion to them, while I do see how you carried their opinion on down to me. It's a matter of stand point, if you have a ready made answer, then nothing was really communicated to them while we get the information they are ready to give us.

Dofus isn't an item in the mall which everything can be paid for; but then again, it is. You can do a plethora of things for the sole interest of making in game kamas to purchase anything. Just look at the varied economies. People currently have access to Turqs, Crimsons, Vulbis', and Ochres that can be "farmed" by the repeated running of dungeons until it "drops" or a quest to get it, and they can deal in commerce and make the kamas needed to buy them; or the less savory way of purchasing kamas from a 3rd party to buy the said item. It doesn't end at just Dofuses, it can and probably does extend to all aspects of the commerce department.

It's a limited freedom when you are bound to something that is beyond your control. If they allow for the use of multiple accounts, then multiple accounts should be allowed in all aspects of the game, to include the simultaneous occurrences. So how do we enjoy a freedom as a multi-clienter that is not really there? The manner in which an account is subscribed for is not in question, I care very little if someone purchases the time via credit cards, PayPal, or even Ogrines. These options are available to everyone. The ability to multi-client is available to everyone. The choice to do so is available to everyone. Only the multi-clienters are the ones being restricted with this "April" change. The game is no longer 100% available to them, a lesser extent is as they can do on 1 character provided they forgo the remainder of their army.

I will concede that I do not have the knowledge to retort to the fairness of the game. I don't see it quite fair to be reduced to being able to use only 1 account out of the 8 that I pay for to do any non-honor based PvP. I can agree to the Prisms and Hearts, and partaking of the Head Hunter Quests; but saying that a possibility of high stakes is equal to high stakes is dealing in variables that are just conjecture. That forces the debate further out of the realm of logical debate. You can't state an "if" because the topic becomes convoluted and diluted in measures that depend on prior factors coming into the light. To illustrate for a moment; Guild X places perc in Crocabulias' room, does the Crocobulia fight, perc drops minor items. Next team comes through, they decide to forgo the perc and finish the dungeon as they are nothing but a 1 man army; perc drops nothing of value. Next team comes through, sees perc and attacks it. The third team defeats Guild X for what ever reason and gets a handful of items. Was the fight worth the perc, probably not. You would have to insure that there is a Vulbis on a perc to add validity to the argument posed by Ankama for the restriction. But the sheer possibility of it doesn't make the stakes high enough in my opinion.

We agree that multi-clienting doesn't always equal an instant win, but the advantage of 1 man armies over 8 man armies is time. If they same 8 people play together they become familiar with the play-styles of the people they are playing with and can adjust accordingly; just as the 1 man army sets out to do with his team and adjusts the team accordingly. Because 1 man armies spend all their time with the same character classes doesn't mean that it is advantage that doesn't have a weak point or can't be defeated. They are not Gods in their own right. I don't know of many multi-clienters that have flawless games, I can't even say that I have flawless games.

I will locate the beta server and try to download it again. Last attempt for it was a complete failure because it never updated as it needed to. Maybe it's the Linux version that has this issue; I am not sure.

I don't see making a post for the benefit over everyone as a tactic Izmar, I see it as a gathering for more people to become aware of things. I can't say with 100% certainty that anyone who has replied here in favor or against me was privy to the conversations we held on the IRC. We have a difference of perception here. The choice is there for everyone to take advantage of everything that a person can; should they choose to do so; but to make it for them is entirely not fair.

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