FR EN DE ES IT PT
Browse forums 
Ankama Trackers

Determining Dodgelock

By #[Izmar] - ADMIN - March 17, 2011, 17:54:21
DevTracker
Reactions 41
Score : 6477
Lafaro|2011-03-18 17:25:54
kaninekrunchies|2011-03-18 06:52:57
I have a question. Is this new system more like a partial dodge/lock system, where you can usually dodge regardless of stats, but lose a portion of your mp?

If monsters can partially dodge a locker in your team and walk a space or two away each turn, this makes doing various dungeons difficult to nearly impossible. Wasta won't be able to lock tynrils, Sram won't be able to lock royal pingwin, teams won't be able to trap bworker in corners, etc. If monsters will be able to move freely away from a locker, this messes up numerous dungeon strategies for various teams and I petition against the change
The way I see it is very similar to what you described as partial dodge/lock system. I also expect the possibility that some of the dungeon boss strategies might be obsolete to certain extents.

However, the system does gives some controls over the opponents since it takes both ap and mp from the dodge attempt. If your lock stat is high enough, you can remove most of your opponent's ap/mp from their attempt to dodge, which of course will limit their actions to be executed in that particular turn. Plus, if they spend their ap while being in tackle zone to the point that they have less ap than what they are supposed to lose from their dodge attempt, they cannot escape the tackle zone. So it is like what Izmar had mentioned before, the lock will not be made any less effective in this new system, it is transformed into other form of what i would like to call controls over your opponent.

It will be up to your opponents to decide either to sacrifice ap/mp to escape for better positioning next turn, or to stay in the heat of close combat. As to what extent the boss strategy will be effected, it will absolutely be up to the monster's AI. I have yet to try those dungeons out, I will do it first thing when the test server is up and running again.
I have a hard time thinking that monsters will willingly sacrifice AP/MP if it keeps them from being able to do something effective. The same, generally speaking, applies to players as well.

Granted this change won't be so bad if they put out TONS of gear with Dodge/Lock bonuses...but it many situations this will render all old gear obsolete. Furthermore, while this certainly does apply more to high lvl content, it means having to add MORE low level gear...which quite frankly is ridiculous as there are sooooo many pre 100 sets as it is.

I like it in theory but I have a hard time accepting it. Meh, it is what it is. I know a large part of my trepidation is simply due to a lack of trust in Ankamas bright ideas.
But lately they have been much better and getting quite creative. I'd be nice to see some Dodge/Lock effects on some class spells to help with this situation as well.
0 0
Reply
Score : 432

I love this update. Adds a lot more to the tactics of pvp and pvm. Will obviously make some classes more and less powerful, but this update should remain and light will be shone on what classes will need to be changed afterwards.

0 0
Reply
Score : 525

Hybrid sram can't lock eni at 199-200.
Game over, man. Game over.

0 0
Reply
Score : 432
Eternalvision|2011-03-19 06:29:43
Hybrid sram can't lock eni at 199-200.
Game over, man. Game over.
Yeah classes that rely on locking other classes are weakened a lot. But more so in 1v1 pvp than anything else, in a way locking a character is more of a reduction in that character's ap and mp according to this change. If Ankama want to still attempt to balance 1v1 pvp I'm sure another drastic change will come.

Another side is that classes with their main weakness is being locked, like enutrofs and eniripsas are very much more powerful in all aspects of fighting: pvm, group and 1v1 pvp. So I assume there'll be some nerf to the fighting capabilities of the classes with little map manipulation to balance out this change. I really do like the change though, it adds more to the fight.
0 0
Reply
Score : 4768
Nonnok|2011-03-18 18:13:54
frogorell|2011-03-18 17:45:09
We got along just fine before cras had lashing arrow, and now that it's gone everyone seems to be freaking out about how the only good mp theft class is gone. Whatever happened to sadidas in tynril, and enus in SO? UP is by far the greatest mp theft spell in the game, along with soothing bramble, clumsiness, and wild grass.

I'm in favor of these dodge changes and I don't even have a single dodge/lock point. (They're actually negative.)

Nobody is talking about lashing arrow. Why did you bring it up?

The other strategies you mentioned are fine, and sadidas and enus are still used in tynril and numerous other dungeons. The problem is the dungeon strategies will become more narrow as lockers become obsolete. There are countless dungeon strategies that revolve around one or two lockers in a group. Someone already brought up several of those examples (sorry I'm too lazy to quote who it was). In essence, Ankama is saying you must have MP steal capabilities in your dungeon groups now, as their focus continues to shift to this single strategy.
i am amazed that as soon as they make the mp dodgeable on the Cra, they immediately turn around and say you need mp steal capabilities. What a joke.
0 0
Reply
Score : 551

I am confused, will Agility still decide the Dodge/Lock of a monster/character? Or will they because their own stat?

0 0
Reply
Score : 252

ok so now you lose a determined amount of AP and MP if you move away from a tackle zone? That seems fair as almost all monsters in this game unless you are an agi character are able to lock you :/ But I am not far enough to be able to form an opinion.

It honestly seems like an ok update but again, I'm not far enough to tell :blink:

judging from the numbers, wouldn't you need a pretty large amount of lock boosting gear to effectively paralyze and opponent?

0 0
Reply
Score : 6

That is all very nice, but how is a sacrier supposed to tank if we lose 15% maximum life, and even when whe are ressuscitated by an osamodas, we are brought at the same max life that we died with? sacriers can't tank like this!

0 0
Reply
Score : 1596

awesome change for pvp... now agi builds dont have too much advantages if i understand right

silly change for pvm...now u need more than 1 locker

0 0
Reply
Score : 30

I wont even try to understand that biggrin

0 0
Reply
Score : 2872

After reading the comments to this, I had a brilliant idea that doesn't make dodge-lockers obsolete, it only makes Feca more useful in a group (a Feca thinking about himself, ironic or selfish? happy)

If you are fighting an enemy which has a high-AP attack (notably Crocabulia or Ougaa), then, using the same mechanic that prioritizes targets (highest resistance = low priority), a Feca could, in theory, keep a shield on the locker, thus forcing the monster to move, reducing his AP and avoiding that devastating attack(s). Besides making agility-based characters less desirable in general 1v1 PvP, I can't see why this is a bad enhancement yet.

P.S. I'm going to try this out in the game and might even put it on my guide, which would be nice if Izmar could pin to the Feca section so I don't have to scroll down.

P.S.S. Go Feca!

0 0
Reply
Score : 551

No one ever answered my question...

0 0
Reply
Score : 11138

10 agi = 1 dodge 1 lock

So yes it will still decide the dodge/lock rate of a monster.

( but you can get dodge/lock from equipment too)

0 0
Reply
Score : 229

thanks heaps for making it impossible for my sacrier to kill any form of mp stealing character in pvp, and making it much more useless in pvm.

0 0
Reply
Score : 77

If the purpose was to create a *less* static gameplay, you didnt just fail. You achieved the complete oposit.

If before chars with agi could move around knowing they can evade a less agile enemy, now its gone. You just made the fights more static.. congrats.

0 0
Reply
Score : 7685
nicknamed-alt|2011-03-29 13:03:56
thanks heaps for making it impossible for my sacrier to kill any form of mp stealing character in pvp, and making it much more useless in pvm.

Because, god knows, the class with the most battlefield manipulation ability in the entire game can't possibly use any of his three teleportation spells or his spell that drags opponents closer to get around possible MP issues. You are a Sacrier, not a Tofu.

Cryslon|2011-03-29 20:25:55
If the purpose was to create a *less* static gameplay, you didnt just fail. You achieved the complete oposit.

If before chars with agi could move around knowing they can evade a less agile enemy, now its gone. You just made the fights more static.. congrats.


They still can. Read the darn post and do the math. Here, I'll copy and paste it:

Percentage = (Dodge + 2) / ((2 x (Lock + 2))

If you want to keep all of your AP and MP when moving out of an enemy's tackle zone, then your Agility has to be about twice theirs (since Dodge and Lock are directly proportional to Agility). +Dodge and +Lock gear can affect that somewhat, but the basic proportion still stands. Plus, now you can escape dodgelock even if you don't have a lot of agility. It's easier to move around now, not harder.

Edited to add: Heck, I just noticed it tells you that flat-out in the original post:

To escape a Lock area without losing any AP or MP, the player’s Dodge needs to be greater than or equal to twice the Lock of the Locking player +2.


(And, again, 10 Agility = 1 Lock and 1 Dodge, so that's the same as saying "The player's Agility needs to be greater than or equal to twice the Agility of the Locking player, plus 20". If they have 50 Agility, you can escape with above 140 agility, if they have 100 Agility, you can escape with above 240 Agility, and so on)
0 0
Reply
Score : 77

First. I read the post. Second my reply posted after the update.
The result of this system is that characters with greater agi can't dodge without penalties unless their agi as you said double that of the opponent.

For pvp it means: unless you are an agi character fighting vs none agi character (only way the difference would be so great) there is no possible dodging each other without penalty. Penalty penalty means less attacks. Also penalty means you lose mp and cant actually run out of reach of the opponent ... final result MORE static gameplay than before, since before a 150 agi would be able to move freely around a 100 agi char (for example)

For pvm - in very few cases none agi chars gain from it, but still as basically ALL monsters got agility (except the very lowest level ones) moving at the cost of more attacks and movement range remains pointless. again benefit to STATIC gameplay.
On the other hand. It is almost impossible to lock monsters like sacriers for example used to do in order to protect allies and deal maximum damage.

So all in all - although movement out of a lock situation did become possible, the penalties associated with it make it pointless since the loss of ap and mp means you attack less and can not get out of reach, resulting in best option being to remain static and utilize your ap fully as opposed to possible hit and run option that existed before. Now that is reserved only for the highest differences of dodge/lock between oponents making the rest of fights a lot more static than they used to be.

0 0
Reply
Score : 423

awesome change making game more bitter and less enjoyable for me

0 0
Reply
Score : 37

This dodge lock crap has COMPLETELY screwed up this game!! I mean now, in the gobball dungeon, a fricking gobball locks me. I have PLENTY of agi but noo, y'all can't be satisfied with how the game was. Agi srams also could walk around without even thinking twice but now, they can't. What's the point of having agi if y'all are going to do this to us?!?!?!

Sincerely,
unhappy iop!! sleep 

0 0
Reply
Score : 3

guys are killing the game with all those change

0 0
Reply
Respond to this thread