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Spell modifications in version 2.7.0

By [lichen] - ANKAMA - June 08, 2012, 17:17:48
DevTracker
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Score : 3052
Schmendrick|2012-06-29 15:16:05
lordgokul18|2012-06-28 11:27:24
ITS MY EARNEST REQUEST TO PLAYERS THAT RATHER THAN TALKING ABOUT A PARTICULAR CHARACTER OR UPDATE PLEASE DISCUSS ABOUT THE GAME AS A WHOLE AND ANKAMA'S WRONG APPROACH TOWARDS IT...FOR WICH ANKAMA MAY STOP NERFING CHARACTERS AND GETTING UNECESSARY CHANGES IN THE BUISNESS PROSPECTS...GET WHAT PLYERS LIKE AND NOT CHEAP BIZ TACTICS....(also see)

(SNIP!)

IF U WEAKEN THE CHAR...THE GAME WEAKENS AND VICE-VERSA.....

IF U WANT THE GAME CHANGED GET A COLLECTIVE MOVEMENT IDIVISUA THOTS WONT SELL.....

REGARDS,
(thanks for reading)


There's two problems with your suggestion. The first is that the major changes to Sacrier were not a matter of numbers. (In fact, when it was just a matter of numbers, the Sacriers were improved, like the higher damage for Sacrier's Foot and Assault) They changed things like Sacrifice no longer switching position with the target. How do you "buff" Cras in an equivalent manner to that? Are you suggesting that, instead of removing the Sacrier's ability to switch places, that Cras be given a position-switching spell? You have to buff Cras in a way that makes "Everyone casts all possible defensive buffs on the Sacrier, Sacrier casts Sacrifice" a tactic that Cras can defeat handle about 50% of the time. How do you suggest they do that, when the problem (as Ankama perceived it) was not with Cras but with that whole "buff the Sacrier, cast Sacrifice" strategy?

The second is that you've only mentioned two classes. Even if you can (somehow) buff Cras to match Sacriers, that still leaves thirteen other classes that now need to be buffed. And, remember, you once again have to buff all these classes in ways not related to just increasing their numbers, because that's not what they changed for the Sacriers. You also have to buff them in a way that doesn't cut into the Sacrier's battlefield manipulation ability (such as it is), but you have to make sure that all classes are buffed EXACTLY the same amount, and that amount is EXACTLY enough to put them on par with the "buff the Sacrier, cast Sacrifice" strategy AND with each other - no more, no less.

To sum up, you are suggesting that, in order to combat one single strategy that was so overpowered that it had become the only strategy that makes any sense, instead of just nerfing that one strategy, that they introduce equivalent new overpowered strategies for all fourteen other classes. And that is just not practical in any sense of the word.
The damage of foot was not improved. The dammage of assalt was split meaning v any resistance it hits for less. There was no improvement in damage at all. If there was the sacriers wouldn't have complained about the spells so much. The math backs this up as well as there being vidio evidence in the sacrier thread.

If we are stuck with rubbish cc spells while having a 3 turn switch (yeah real great map manipulation) the cc spell should hit high, not be some of the weakest hitting spells in the game with WAY less utility than any class.. The point is this update the map manipulation of the sacrier was nerfed, the damage was not improved. Hence a lot of sacriers in uproar at this update. Come the weapon nerf and we know its coming the sacrier will become sub par rubbish lumps of hp. Way to go on rewrading my and many others invested time ankamma. I couldn't give a royal monkey poo about the new class, whos battlefield manipulation is insulting after the sacriers nerf. Also the lack of being able to farm the spell points I would need to make a new class at the level I would like it, well I won't be rerolling or resubbing.

I agree sacrifice needed to be changed (the main reason for the players scorn this update) but it was exicuted poorly. Now we have a suicide button that sits next to vitality punishment and life trans in the spells never to use list gathering dust. The dev's ignored the proof we gave them and laughed in our face. The sacrifice nerf also nerfs other spells by proxy, BTM being an example. In your example you use 1v1 (dead and dated system) pointless. The pvp of todays dofus is 3v3 and in this field the sacriers new spells don't perform well. Poor development!

Before you tell all the sacriers to "ADAPT OR GTFO", the only way to adapt in pvp is get a bow. Are you going to sugest a %stat punishment nerf next because the cra can't escape the sacrier in this tactic? In pvm , well I point you to the complaints about the new dungeon system. Fuji / tengu being prime examples where these nerfs and the new dungeon system many teams are struggling or just can't get past them. Hell I run a full endgame 4 man team and even I struggle v the part two dungeons. Was the point of the dungeon update (apart from the obviouse nerf to xp) to make the dungeons easier?

Between this and the nerfs to certain classes over the last 4 updates its getting tedius to play such dungeons. They wonder why part two frigost isn't getting complated, well the classes keep being made weaker while the mob compositions and the battlefield terrain of the fights have in fact been made harder if you want to 8 man a dungeon. It did not address dungeon speed at all considering each 4 rooms for an 8 man team is filled with 8 high hp , high damage, evil debuffs and utility mobs.

The class that overpowered sacriers was the fecca, in fact they overpower any team and get it all with no real restrictions. They nerfed the wrong class.

Retired team of 4 until possitive sacrier / dungeon change.

Nuff Said!
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Score : 2138
ANDYSAYSHIIII|2012-07-01 08:36:34
i just think that more chars should have unbewi spell again, make it fair in a match say cra/eca vs feca/sacrier. cra eca should have advantages on larger maps, with range and damage, but with sacrier/feca combo, sacrier is almost untouchable and feca disables the eca and cra's mp ap and team work.

i hate being one of these people complaining all the time or anythin, but it's the one thing that over the 7 years i've played, has always seemed under-powered and very unfair to most chars.

thanks for reading to anyone that takes the time.
Agreed, certain characters do have a big advantage over others in terms of unbewitchment. They nerfed us enus, so we lost an advantage we had. (Ghoslty Shovel). Yeh at least if they implement spells that give a -2~4 effect duration, classes will start to re-balance like they did ages ago.
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Score : -4

i think the game should just go back to time where incarm had a chafer hang out and where everyone was basically having races to see who could out match who.

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Score : 484
AngryBeardIvI|2012-07-01 11:41:13
The damage of foot was not improved. The dammage of assalt was split meaning v any resistance it hits for less. There was no improvement in damage at all. If there was the sacriers wouldn't have complained about the spells so much. The math backs this up as well as there being vidio evidence in the sacrier thread.

If we are stuck with rubbish cc spells while having a 3 turn switch (yeah real great map manipulation) the cc spell should hit high, not be some of the weakest hitting spells in the game with WAY less utility than any class.. The point is this update the map manipulation of the sacrier was nerfed, the damage was not improved. Hence a lot of sacriers in uproar at this update. Come the weapon nerf and we know its coming the sacrier will become sub par rubbish lumps of hp. Way to go on rewrading my and many others invested time ankamma. I couldn't give a royal monkey poo about the new class, whos battlefield manipulation is insulting after the sacriers nerf. Also the lack of being able to farm the spell points I would need to make a new class at the level I would like it, well I won't be rerolling or resubbing.

I agree sacrifice needed to be changed (the main reason for the players scorn this update) but it was exicuted poorly. Now we have a suicide button that sits next to vitality punishment and life trans in the spells never to use list gathering dust. The dev's ignored the proof we gave them and laughed in our face. The sacrifice nerf also nerfs other spells by proxy, BTM being an example. In your example you use 1v1 (dead and dated system) pointless. The pvp of todays dofus is 3v3 and in this field the sacriers new spells don't perform well. Poor development!

Before you tell all the sacriers to "ADAPT OR GTFO", the only way to adapt in pvp is get a bow. Are you going to sugest a %stat punishment nerf next because the cra can't escape the sacrier in this tactic? In pvm , well I point you to the complaints about the new dungeon system. Fuji / tengu being prime examples where these nerfs and the new dungeon system many teams are struggling or just can't get past them. Hell I run a full endgame 4 man team and even I struggle v the part two dungeons. Was the point of the dungeon update (apart from the obviouse nerf to xp) to make the dungeons easier?

Between this and the nerfs to certain classes over the last 4 updates its getting tedius to play such dungeons. They wonder why part two frigost isn't getting complated, well the classes keep being made weaker while the mob compositions and the battlefield terrain of the fights have in fact been made harder if you want to 8 man a dungeon. It did not address dungeon speed at all considering each 4 rooms for an 8 man team is filled with 8 high hp , high damage, evil debuffs and utility mobs.

The class that overpowered sacriers was the fecca, in fact they overpower any team and get it all with no real restrictions. They nerfed the wrong class.

Retired team of 4 until possitive sacrier / dungeon change.

Nuff Said!
This is exactly how I feel about the change to PvM. I personally don't like PvP and was all excited about this dungeon change because I enjoy running 4 accounts as opposed to 8. But no the update that was supposed to be good absolutely stunk! When I use 4 the exp is meh and some runs are questionable if they are even worth it. When I use 8 I simply wanna shoot myself because the dungeon takes WAY to long. I really don't see the purpose of facing 8 monsters in each room. It just baffles me and I have now switched from dungeons to Fouxes, Ghosts, Aghony monsters and a few others because I don't even wanna be a part of what they are "improving" Well best regards fellow players my small rant is done biggrin 
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Score : 3956
Ichhigooo|2012-07-04 14:43:35
AngryBeardIvI|2012-07-01 11:41:13
The damage of foot was not improved. The dammage of assalt was split meaning v any resistance it hits for less. There was no improvement in damage at all. If there was the sacriers wouldn't have complained about the spells so much. The math backs this up as well as there being vidio evidence in the sacrier thread.

If we are stuck with rubbish cc spells while having a 3 turn switch (yeah real great map manipulation) the cc spell should hit high, not be some of the weakest hitting spells in the game with WAY less utility than any class.. The point is this update the map manipulation of the sacrier was nerfed, the damage was not improved. Hence a lot of sacriers in uproar at this update. Come the weapon nerf and we know its coming the sacrier will become sub par rubbish lumps of hp. Way to go on rewrading my and many others invested time ankamma. I couldn't give a royal monkey poo about the new class, whos battlefield manipulation is insulting after the sacriers nerf. Also the lack of being able to farm the spell points I would need to make a new class at the level I would like it, well I won't be rerolling or resubbing.

I agree sacrifice needed to be changed (the main reason for the players scorn this update) but it was exicuted poorly. Now we have a suicide button that sits next to vitality punishment and life trans in the spells never to use list gathering dust. The dev's ignored the proof we gave them and laughed in our face. The sacrifice nerf also nerfs other spells by proxy, BTM being an example. In your example you use 1v1 (dead and dated system) pointless. The pvp of todays dofus is 3v3 and in this field the sacriers new spells don't perform well. Poor development!

Before you tell all the sacriers to "ADAPT OR GTFO", the only way to adapt in pvp is get a bow. Are you going to sugest a %stat punishment nerf next because the cra can't escape the sacrier in this tactic? In pvm , well I point you to the complaints about the new dungeon system. Fuji / tengu being prime examples where these nerfs and the new dungeon system many teams are struggling or just can't get past them. Hell I run a full endgame 4 man team and even I struggle v the part two dungeons. Was the point of the dungeon update (apart from the obviouse nerf to xp) to make the dungeons easier?

Between this and the nerfs to certain classes over the last 4 updates its getting tedius to play such dungeons. They wonder why part two frigost isn't getting complated, well the classes keep being made weaker while the mob compositions and the battlefield terrain of the fights have in fact been made harder if you want to 8 man a dungeon. It did not address dungeon speed at all considering each 4 rooms for an 8 man team is filled with 8 high hp , high damage, evil debuffs and utility mobs.

The class that overpowered sacriers was the fecca, in fact they overpower any team and get it all with no real restrictions. They nerfed the wrong class.

Retired team of 4 until possitive sacrier / dungeon change.

Nuff Said!
This is exactly how I feel about the change to PvM. I personally don't like PvP and was all excited about this dungeon change because I enjoy running 4 accounts as opposed to 8. But no the update that was supposed to be good absolutely stunk! When I use 4 the exp is meh and some runs are questionable if they are even worth it. When I use 8 I simply wanna shoot myself because the dungeon takes WAY to long. I really don't see the purpose of facing 8 monsters in each room. It just baffles me and I have now switched from dungeons to Fouxes, Ghosts, Aghony monsters and a few others because I don't even wanna be a part of what they are "improving" Well best regards fellow players my small rant is done biggrin
My tactic is buy all the dungeon mats, farm the heck outta mobs. Dungeons are ruined for me.
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Score : 4561

When are they going to give Wrymling the same update as living bag? (Using unbewitchment before moving) lol, I hate summoning Dragon in LoS of an enemy, then runs to a different one and unbewitches the other, which is not what I wanted :|

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Score : 27402

Doubtful they would ever do that? An Osa who has partial control of his summons? Can't you hear the screams of op now?

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Score : 2603
Lost-Worldz|2012-07-17 16:32:52
When are they going to give Wrymling the same update as living bag? (Using unbewitchment before moving) lol, I hate summoning Dragon in LoS of an enemy, then runs to a different one and unbewitches the other, which is not what I wanted :|
Double the ap cost as well please ^^

...
Oh and a suggestion for living bag.... make it kill itself once sacrifice runs out if it's still alive.
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Score : 6

I believe that osa do need a huge improvement like for intense take the spell summoning of chaferfu if your crit the chaferfu he becomes all armored up why can't like summoning gob be like a warchief if you crit and so on.

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Score : 27402
pikahoe|2012-07-24 03:20:36
I believe that osa do need a huge improvement like for intense take the spell summoning of chaferfu if your crit the chaferfu he becomes all armored up why can't like summoning gob be like a warchief if you crit and so on.
If you add critical hits you have to add critical failures, and supposedly Osas do not have them currently (altho I swear I have cfed on a Crackler before).
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Score : 160

If you ask me i would say to take a look at spells that have a crap load of erosion on it like Mistake and Ecaflip's Reflex, these spells can not only screw people with sac's on their team but i have had it kill me in 1 v 1 as well its not run trying to live with 900 hp remaining... they are simply overpowered spells its rediculous and dont even get me started on feca's shields are simply overpowered for this game why dont people see that, especially ankama feca's just cause imbalance to pvp OVERALL, to many shields they can use, to long of a duration, to many stacks, to many ways to escape from dying, to many ways to ap steal, they are simply out of control. But yeah also the erosion spells need a look at, Sac's were perfectly fine before, there was simply other ways to improve the imbalances of Sacrifice other then completely screwing over the sac, for example removing feca's from this dam game. Osa's are another problem and another story their buffing spells like toad have to low of a CD, revive is cheap, healing from a mad range, so many summons that can screw you over both in 1 v 1 and 3 v 3 (kolo) gobbal gravity state, dragon debuff, crackler/prespic ap steal/resistances, seriously? Enu's being able to skip your turn, debuff, -100 mp/debuff, living bag i can go all kids obviously the wrong things are being nerfed and the wrong classes are being changed, some spells are just to OP for their own good people abuse and people ignore them just cause they play that certain class. PEACE OUT

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Score : 263

Oscar you seem to be trolling if i dont say myself ? Firstly ecas are fine with how they are, they do get balanced out in higher lvls. Secondly Enus are already weak to the point where they just sit back mp steal, greed, and fortune. Rarely do i see many enus in pvp. The nerf that however needs to happin is a sram nerd either seeing the plot od land where the sram can go while being invis, or a -2 mp instead of +2. In end game lvls them mostly being agi/str with insane range they can pumple you to no end. There has to be some buffs happining, I for one have stopped playing dfus about 95% of the time. Tengu / fuji is just lame and the dungeons ahead are like whoa super lame. Heh i even had to go to ghosts for more exp ?????

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Score : 2138
pikahoe|2012-07-24 03:20:36
I believe that osa do need a huge improvement like for intense take the spell summoning of chaferfu if your crit the chaferfu he becomes all armored up why can't like summoning gob be like a warchief if you crit and so on.
If they do this osas would be overpowered, more than they are now. Let me give you a taste of what is to happen if they were to implement that.

A lvl 199/200 osa. FULL agi set with epic crits/vit and whatever an end gamer can have at one stat. They just get wyrmling to 1/2 and start tearing other people apart.

If a buff would be next I'd go for enus. We seriously need a buff. And the fecas seriously need a shield nerf. Fecas are invulnerable most of the time (except that 1 turn when their shields run out) to players who cannot unbewitch in any way. Cra's buffs have a 3 turn duration while the feca's shields have a 4 turn duration. This should actually be the other way around. Ankama are failing to hear buff/nerf yelps from it's characters.
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Score : 25951
dezira|2012-07-24 12:56:14
A lvl 199/200 osa. FULL agi set with epic crits/vit and whatever an end gamer can have at one stat. They just get wyrmling to 1/2 and start tearing other people apart.
Even if summons gets double or even triple powered, they will still not tear others apart. Summons have already been nerfed to the point where they are (most of the time) no longer viable in end game PvM and summon damage are mediocre compared to direct damage or weapon damage.

Damage types can easily kill osas, enutrofs can easily immobilize and defeat power types, but you cannot immobilize osa summons due to overwhelming numbers... That is a rock-paper-scissor triangle of 1vs1 PvP, one's class specialization will essentially be powerful against some class and weak against another.
Note: The triangle can be overridden by tactical prowess of the players and gear advantages. But with the same gear and same tactical prowess, the triangle can predict who will win in a match-up.

Let go of 1vs1 PvP, Ankama is now focusing on 3vs3 Kolo PvP.
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Score : 2603
Gunnerwolfang|2012-07-24 14:19:03
dezira|2012-07-24 12:56:14
A lvl 199/200 osa. FULL agi set with epic crits/vit and whatever an end gamer can have at one stat. They just get wyrmling to 1/2 and start tearing other people apart.
Even if summons gets double or even triple powered, they will still not tear others apart. Summons have already been nerfed to the point where they are (most of the time) no longer viable in end game PvM and summon damage are mediocre compared to direct damage or weapon damage.

Damage types can easily kill osas, enutrofs can easily immobilize and defeat power types, but you cannot immobilize osa summons due to overwhelming numbers... That is a rock-paper-scissor triangle of 1vs1 PvP, one's class specialization will essentially be powerful against some class and weak against another.
Note: The triangle can be overridden by tactical prowess of the players and gear advantages. But with the same gear and same tactical prowess, the triangle can predict who will win in a match-up.

Let go of 1vs1 PvP, Ankama is now focusing on 3vs3 Kolo PvP.
Summon damage is every turn though... almost like a poison unless the enemy invests ap killing it. A wryming at triple damage would be tearing people apart (would hit like a good 4 or 5 ap spell each turn to two people). Not really good for endgame pvm though... since it would take too long and piss people off. At endgame pvp, damage types are also overwhelmed by the summons... osas don't really have a huge disadvantage to anyone in pvp (maybe a little worse against sacs?)
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Score : 6

How can anybody possibly say that osa are OP really know at lower lvls i will give them that because of the swarm. But not like at my lvl 199 i can not pvp worth of crap because 1. summons hp are low 2. the never do what you intend them to do 3. toad at lvl 6 still will cause a summon to die easily. And most people should already know osas are best for support and causing distraction.

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Score : 2603
pikahoe|2012-07-27 13:33:42
How can anybody possibly say that osa are OP really know at lower lvls i will give them that because of the swarm. But not like at my lvl 199 i can not pvp worth of crap because 1. summons hp are low 2. the never do what you intend them to do 3. toad at lvl 6 still will cause a summon to die easily. And most people should already know osas are best for support and causing distraction.
I'm a bad match up against osas (since I'm do little damage), so maybe I'm bias, but they are pretty good pvpers...

Do you have high vit/resist with 12ap? Because everyone has trouble with these... if you are more of a pvm build then that might explain why you can't pvp.
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Score : 2

well that sucked - I played an air sacrier b4 this n I never had a problem. Poor enutropfs...

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Score : 2

Well, this will be very intresting smile)))

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Score : 170

Every nerf gives you another reason to think of a new strategy (set, level, gameplay), or new char to play. Either way, the nerfs force you to change your goals, extending or beginning new subscription, and feed the payroll of ankama employees - which of course is the point of IT jobs.

Your thinking about balancing classes, they are thinking about making the gamer spend the most time subscribing to the game.

Oscillating the "perceived" prowess of each character over time is a cheap way for ankama to retain customers, while they work on new content to attract new players.

my 2c worth

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