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Weapon Balancing in 2.11

By [lichen] - ANKAMA - March 15, 2013, 21:09:15
Reactions 1058
Score : 204
Luckypixie|2013-03-17 00:49:21
ANKAMA or whoever reads these PLEASE Listen to what everyone said , it clearly says 2 people like this when the other 500,00 plus clearly hate this update stuff.

So if you want to keep making money of everyone i and everyone else who plays this game, DONT GO THREW with this WEAPON BALANCING other you will loose over 1/3 of the people who play this game.

Now you cant say you

- End LuckyPixie post

Sorry it wont let me type outside the quote box. That being said where does it say only 2 people like this? There have been a few that like it 100% but more so people who like it if it was only tweaked a little like say the 15% raised to 25%. In fact, in all major updates Dofus goes and changes, but then spends time and effort watching the unexpected hiccups and tweaking. There is no reason for all this ragequits, but it happens in every single update...just like petitions start every single update. Same old same old.
 
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Everyone seems to be complaining about the low damage classes but there isnt just that to look at, for exmaple Agi sacs, they have 2 casts of assult per turn and if they only get limited swing of their weapon you can still only use a maximum of 12ap as an agi sac doing damage.... just seems a bit stupid

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I do agree that it is silly an eni, eca, or sram can do as much damage as an iop. The over emphasis of CC weaps has a lot to do with it, but I don't get how they can add more ways to get AP in one update, then nerf weaps in another. More AP = more CC hits and damage in general. Anyway, I think it is especially lame that Ankama will devote all of this effort into "balancing" the gameplay, but they are not spending money upgrading their outdated and clearly over capacity servers. I can barely keep mine logged in, and it isn't my ISP. I get excellent up and down speeds, and rarely (if ever) get DC'd on any other game I play. They can't seem to get a handle on DDOS attacks, but they are steadily screwing with the gameplay. I already play Path of Exile, so I'll probably play it full time if Ankama doesn't get their heads out of their tails soon. I just hate that I now have so much time invested in Dofus.

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I actually haven't reached cc levels yet, but I like this. At least now I won't get killed by my second turn in kolo. And I'm a sac.

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There were already class-specific weapon penalties. Why not just change those to make certain classes weaker with ALL weapons. For example, eni hits 15% less with all weapons but can still use as many times as they want. This way, they can limit the damage of non-iops while still giving all the builds that use weapons as a main means of another damage source so they don't waste AP.

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I remember when I first started playing Dofus. They had cast limits back then too. It was called AP.

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In response to recent major updates:

On a basic level, this is a game that people pay to play and they should feel satisfied that their money, whether it be ogrines or more, is going to good use. After all, Ankama, you run a business - Alienating so much of your customer base is somewhat a poor sales strategy if you ask me. No player wants to feel lesser than they once were and if 'balancing' is required then buffing proportionately is a more rational and business-minded approach (You’d most likely generate a rise in customer base too). As long as these updates do not overpower any one class above the rest then the majority of customers would surely be content (with no harm done) - As opposed to, oh, let's say - now?

It’s simple – Dungeons are too easy? MAKE THEM HARDER. Don’t destroy everybody’s sets, tactics, and character combinations. Honestly, I have enough dull and tedious work to do – Dofus isn’t a part of that, not for the players (play, being an activity of enjoyment), I’ve put enough effort into this game and now the ‘rewards’ of said work seem redundant.

The basic objective of a fight is to manipulate a combination of UNIQUE characters and strategies in order to best your foes. Everybody has their own playing style, and what you seem not to realise is that you are making each and every player more generic by every update. All that these nerfs are achieving (and especially the weapon restrictions) is a huge degree of limitation - A limitation of tactics, unique strategies, and most importantly the fun.

We used to have renowned characters, 16ap enutrofs, and 10mp sacriers - these unique people who would put a ridiculous amount of work into their characters and CREATE THEIR OWN LIMITS. These people were not that common and famous for their work in planning and skill in fight. Sure, some people didn’t like it – But they were jealous. People work hard to optimise their abilities, it’s why we have people using high AP teams with strong weapons – But they didn’t just come out of thin air – Do you know how hard it was for these people to create such a team? Instead, you say – Nope, too strong. Characters shall be weaker, fights shall be longer (even though this creates more imbalances – healers will be ‘overpowered’, etc.). Nice work and everything but you we’re going to nerf you so you’re exactly like all the other players here, can’t have you being better than anybody, can we?

The way all these updates are going… I mean, I could have a PVP with somebody my level, or I could flip a coin. This ‘balancing’ is not necessary; it is up to players to make themselves stronger. I feel like I am being patronised and that the whole PVP ranking system has now become redundant – As a legit rank 10, I’m basically doomed, right?

We don’t need somebody telling us that we can only have so much of this and do so much of that, it feels too much like a dictatorship already. Of course the game isn’t going to be fair, because there are VARIABLES. As a competitive mmo, it is up to each player how they balance themselves in relation to others.

Forcing us to play a certain way is patronising and disrespectful. Tactics are and should be a choice - and by god I've seen some good ones on dofus over the years - ALL before these updates.

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Fishyy|2013-03-17 01:58:06


The basic objective of a fight is to manipulate a combination of UNIQUE characters and strategies in order to best your foes. Everybody has their own playing style, and what you seem not to realise is that you are making each and every player more generic by every update. All that these nerfs are achieving (and especially the weapon restrictions) is a huge degree of limitation - A limitation of tactics, unique strategies, and most importantly the fun.

I respectfully disagree with all of your post (have already posted a couple times why) but wanted to respond to this section.

How is making characters NOT CC spam over and over and over making them be more generic? By forcing them to use their spells, to learn new playing style that acts accordingly to their class they chose would make characters different...instead of all just trying to play mini-iops with Thrusty Staves, Peccary blades etc.
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I simply cannot believe that this lichen character thinks that a lvl 200 player has it easy fighting high level monsters. Does this cretin even know how hard it is to GET to lvl 200? How many months, and in some cases years, the average player fought every day to get to so high a plateau, and he makes a joke of it by saying it was too EASY? To say nothing of assembling the end game gear, and the millions upon millions of kamas it took. All the hard work, or most of it, gone in the blink of an eye.

Where do they find such clueless, heartless, people? Ah but I forget. France.

He should be ashamed of himself for so very many reasons. But shame is reserved for those who possess feelings, so the nerf will go through and they'll continue to laugh at us all the way to the bank.

Oh and not for nothing, but the bar Dexter contains the rules for posting, and DEMANDS that
"good grammar and spelling" must be used, so when is he going to be penalized for making a farce of English?

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tripleej|2013-03-17 02:30:14
I respectfully disagree with all of your post (have already posted a couple times why) but wanted to respond to this section.

How is making characters NOT CC spam over and over and over making them be more generic? By forcing them to use their spells, to learn new playing style that acts accordingly to their class they chose would make characters different...instead of all just trying to play mini-iops with Thrusty Staves, Peccary blades etc.

Not to speak for Fishyy, but the fact is that there will always be the most effect attack combinations, just like there are the best equipment combinations, and class combinations. Some things just work extremely well together and there is no denying or ignoring it. And as a result, those things will get spammed. Making CC spam impossible will not change a thing, it will just mean a different type of spam will replace it.
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I understand why this "nerf" has been brought on, I feel like 4ap weapons should be allowed to be used twice per turn. 1 per turn seems a bit much.

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Absolutely, terrorcat, thank you.

I don't know how long you've been playing, tripleej - But back in the day you were limited by whatever crazy ideas you could combine. Our freedom is being taken away from us.

Put it this way, tripleej, if i ran into a fight and cc spammed the entire time, I'd die pretty quickly. There is a certain amount of balancing of spells and weaponry that is necessary whilst successfully engaging in combat and it should be up to the individual to figure that out. Being forced to play a certain way makes characters more GENERIC.

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Score : 204
terrorcat|2013-03-17 02:49:41
tripleej|2013-03-17 02:30:14
I respectfully disagree with all of your post (have already posted a couple times why) but wanted to respond to this section.

How is making characters NOT CC spam over and over and over making them be more generic? By forcing them to use their spells, to learn new playing style that acts accordingly to their class they chose would make characters different...instead of all just trying to play mini-iops with Thrusty Staves, Peccary blades etc.

Not to speak for Fishyy, but the fact is that there will always be the most effect attack combinations, just like there are the best equipment combinations, and class combinations. Some things just work extremely well together and there is no denying or ignoring it. And as a result, those things will get spammed. Making CC spam impossible will not change a thing, it will just mean a different type of spam will replace it.
Yes that is the point. To find an effective strategy that incorporates strengths of the class, rather then every class just CC'ing. Now you will see more srams using traps/poison rather then just dagdagdag, Eni's might *gasp* heal, etc and so forth.
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Score : 1700

Are you suggesting enis didn't heal before? Why do you think they are included on pretty much every frig 2 team? To CC? lol

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Score : 204
Fishyy|2013-03-17 03:06:43
Absolutely, terrorcat, thank you.

I don't know how long you've been playing, tripleej - But back in the day you were limited by whatever crazy ideas you could combine. Our freedom is being taken away from us.

Put it this way, tripleej, if i ran into a fight and cc spammed the entire time, I'd die pretty quickly. There is a certain amount of balancing of spells and weaponry that is necessary whilst successfully engaging in combat and it should be up to the individual to figure that out. Being forced to play a certain way makes characters more GENERIC.
Been playing since right as Rushu was introduced as the first NON french server. Used to be Weapons were just a nice addition, but people used spells more then anything else. It made the game much more interesting. Now I tell you I met some of those massive 12 ap base 10 mp base people, and frankly only the sacs made it doable..the rest sacrificed far too many stats to get that to really be more then a novelty laugh. However I do see your point on that, I don't think it was a hugely BAD thing for them to cap the ap/mp but yeah if you want to lose stats to get massive ap.mp I guess meh. But unfortunately in PVM and in PVP people DO just run in, buff and CC to one hit kill monsters with peccary. and even people fo rthose who PVP.

I really dont see how limiting oneself to one or two weapon swing will make people generic.

igotleeched|2013-03-17 03:28:45
Are you suggesting enis didn't heal before? Why do you think they are included on pretty much every frig 2 team? To CC? lol
I am suggesting that there are plenty and plenty of eni's who prefer to toe to toe monsters with thrusty then to heal team members. Been there done that got the tee-shirt and is why I wont go to frig with random groups.
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I see peccary used as an ecample a lot. Perhaps it should be removed in addition to the weapon change

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terrorcat|2013-03-17 02:49:41
tripleej|2013-03-17 02:30:14
I respectfully disagree with all of your post (have already posted a couple times why) but wanted to respond to this section.

How is making characters NOT CC spam over and over and over making them be more generic? By forcing them to use their spells, to learn new playing style that acts accordingly to their class they chose would make characters different...instead of all just trying to play mini-iops with Thrusty Staves, Peccary blades etc.

Not to speak for Fishyy, but the fact is that there will always be the most effect attack combinations, just like there are the best equipment combinations, and class combinations. Some things just work extremely well together and there is no denying or ignoring it. And as a result, those things will get spammed. Making CC spam impossible will not change a thing, it will just mean a different type of spam will replace it.
Absolutly true. ppl playing this game 24/7 and they always use the most efficient ways of gameplay, be it CC spam or certain spell spam. Players will build teams with new combos CC+ offensive spells. But again it'll take time to do. As it was mentioned ppl can make 4 iop teams + some support for repitative wraths but i'm sure devs will fix it the other day and put a global CD on wrath. So u see it's neverending nerf circle. We'll end up with limits on every action. It's like living in a totalitary society where every step is set and done.
So sad, Ankama, u putting restrictions and calling it more choices. Teens might believe it but not adult ppl.
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Score : 204
igotleeched|2013-03-17 03:32:53
I see peccary used as an ecample a lot. Perhaps it should be removed in addition to the weapon change
Peccary is used as an example only because it is the most popular of the choice. I used it because I know people who just are dead set against this update because they want their weapons to not be touched will use anything to diminish another persons point of view. Thus no reason to go out of my way to make sure that people can't use anything and everything, Just voicing my opinion. Nothing more nothing less.
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Score : 738
tripleej|2013-03-17 02:30:14
Fishyy|2013-03-17 01:58:06


The basic objective of a fight is to manipulate a combination of UNIQUE characters and strategies in order to best your foes. Everybody has their own playing style, and what you seem not to realise is that you are making each and every player more generic by every update. All that these nerfs are achieving (and especially the weapon restrictions) is a huge degree of limitation - A limitation of tactics, unique strategies, and most importantly the fun.

I respectfully disagree with all of your post (have already posted a couple times why) but wanted to respond to this section.

How is making characters NOT CC spam over and over and over making them be more generic? By forcing them to use their spells, to learn new playing style that acts accordingly to their class they chose would make characters different...instead of all just trying to play mini-iops with Thrusty Staves, Peccary blades etc.
you, and everyone else seems to be missing a big point. what about people who want to be unique and go for off-build characters, who's only source of damage is weapons? (or perfidious boomerang :/ ) what about people who spent time, money and effort leveling an off build character only to be forced into a more generic build. agi feca. nope, you must be str int or cha, cha sram? nope you cant do it because we wont let you. str eni? nope, not allowed, doesnt fit with our idea of what you should be doing. granted the cha sram is not likely. same as cha iop is not likely, but some people would want to do it just for fun. im sure there is others that have no spells on certain elements, but people will want to be fun and unique and play them that class anyway, because of other skills they have and weapons they can use to make it fun. Unless you are suggesting every character should get all stats restored, all scrolling given back(how much kamas it was worth when they scrolled?) and all the exp on that character free to distribute to any of their other classes ? i spent like 35mk on souls leveling my feca to 154 from 0, aswell as scrolled, gears, so he could be agi. now what, all that effort wasted, i dont want an intel feca, or str feca or cha feca... if i did i would have made them...
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This update has been long awaited for. ^^ If people didnt leech from lvl 50-200 on frigost they would also realize that there is more to this game than "weapon skill/whack/whack/whack.

Old School dofus ppl know how to play tactically. I have missed that so much , glad its kinda coming back biggrin

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