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Lichen goes full frontal community!

By #[Nerodos] - ADMIN - November 29, 2013, 18:00:00
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Score : 114

Take pebbles off of recipes

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Score : 93

What seems to me to be the most significant thing about Lichen's post is the decision not to force people to play all elements of the game. This is important because to pursue that would actually mean the game lacks the flexibility that makes it great and would mean less variety as you are compelled to do one big wall of tasks. Currently I can choose the aspects I like, change the mix from time to time and try different things.

I have limited time to play and I multi-account, partly because of the limited time I have, the time slot I am in, and because I am not into leeching and standing around at zaaps spouting gibberish. I do not have bags of exo- and over-maged gear. But there are consequences for the decisions I make - some things I will have to pay for.

I was encouraged by big picture view we got from Lichen. Next time my cape or hat complains about him, I will put it straight.

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Score : 403

More rares please :3

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Score : 624

More nerfs pleaseph34r 

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Score : 95
demonfoxassassin|2013-11-30 15:07:33
HiperSonic|2013-11-30 14:42:54
Cute-Fire|2013-11-30 08:53:16
FullMetalSonicX2|2013-11-30 08:49:01



Hi all again.

I guess Cute-Fire dont understand what the guys are talking about, let me try explain it in a simpler way

The multiman problem here is not the fact of their have level or not in your group. the problem is the bonus for group size Akakochira explained very well:
If you fight whit more players, the fight will give you a bonus multiplier for group size, as follow:

Participants ---- Coefficient
1 -------------------- 1
2 -------------------- 1.1
3 -------------------- 1.5
4 -------------------- 2.3
5 -------------------- 3.1
6 -------------------- 3.6
7 -------------------- 4.2
8 -------------------- 4.7

As multiman are NOT being count as players for group SIZE (no level, I said size!), it will make less XP for big group fights. Here level dont matter, What the guys are talking about is group size!

It is not fair a battle whit 4 chars + 4 multiman VS 8 monsters of their levels, having a lot of turns, and in the end it gives THE SAME XP for a group of 4 players VS 4 monsters! Why the hell someone will use them this way? they do not give loot (I think it is fair), they do not have XP from they own. at least make them usable in xp hunts!
Yes they do count for Group size, as they are considered a player.

(With Lumino equipped)


The Result, which obviously means that they do count for Group size and it affects the XP gain.
OMG ...

I told, we are NOT talking about group LEVEL, we are talking about group SIZE! size = number of members!!!!! not total level!

They will count in LEVEL to make you gain less xp from total level difference, or even a bit more xp if it makes your group LEVEL reaches near of mob LEVEL.

But the point here is not the LEVEL, is the bonus for group SIZE

1 member = multiplier of 1 XP
4 members = multiplier of 2.3 XP
8 members = multiplier of 4.7 XP

Why this?

because 1 players VS 1 monster = 1 monster for player when it comes to share the XP
because 4 players VS 4 monsters = 1 monster for player when it comes to share the XP
because 8 players VS 8 monsters =1 monster for player when it comes to share the XP.

So, if I am going to get the same XP, why the hell would I level in group? because of multiplier for group SIZE!

the table above!

so 1 players VS monster = 1 monster each player multiplied for 1 so 1 monster XP
so 4 players VS 4 monsters = 1 monster each player multiplied for 2.3, so 2.3 monster XP
so 8 players VS 8 monsters = 1 monster each player multiplied for 4.7 so 4.7 monster XP

this mechanics exists to make leveling in a group a viable idea. Think about it. 1 x 1 is WAY FASTER than 8x8. why the hell someone would level in group, if the final XP was the same?

The deal whit multiman is that they are NOT counting for group SIZE bonus, although they are counting for group total level.

But they, in fact, makes group level higher, what makes me search for higher level mob, so longer fights, but whit the mechanics as it is now, this longer fight will give the same XP as a faster fight whitout them!!!!

Here, take some pictures to PROVE what I am saying:


take a look 4 players, no multiman = group xp 1.466.388

now:



2 players + 2 multiman = 701.316 xp ! less xp, for same fight! and same total level, and same monster group! This is not about group level, it is about group multiplier bonus SIZE!

And to finish the explanation:



4 players + 4 multiman gives THE SAME XP than just 4 players! I used dungeon because here we have exactly 8 monsters of same level than players and multiman

That is what me and the other guys are tryong to explain: multiman makes fighter LONGER whit no bonus xp that normal players gives!!!! So, now whit pictures:

4 players VS 4 monsters XP is the SAME than 4 players + 4 multiman VS 8 monsters, tha is a very long fight!!!!!

I guess know it is very clear for anyone, sorry for this explanation this way long.

But we need to ask PLEASE ANKAMA, PLEASE LICHEN MAKES THIS WORK!

There is no point in use multiman for level up as it was now! They are already useless for loot, if they become useless for XP they will end up as a great idea, but not used for players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

community, please if you guys agree whit me post here! lets make ankama hear us!!!!!!
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Score : 1303
HiperSonic|2013-11-30 18:11:40
demonfoxassassin|2013-11-30 15:07:33
HiperSonic|2013-11-30 14:42:54
Cute-Fire|2013-11-30 08:53:16
FullMetalSonicX2|2013-11-30 08:49:01




-snipped for length reasons-
My apologies. I see what you mean.
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Score : 15635
4 players + 4 multiman gives THE SAME XP than just 4 players! I used dungeon because here we have exactly 8 monsters of same level than players and multiman

Are you sure that isn't just a bug with the xp calculation over the mob? If you actually do the fight with the 4 MM then maybe you'll get the full exp as if you had eight players after the fight is over? It could be that prefight calculation doesn't reflect MM, only real group members, but when you actually do the fight it will count properly.
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Score : 95
Mishna|2013-11-30 19:10:45
4 players + 4 multiman gives THE SAME XP than just 4 players! I used dungeon because here we have exactly 8 monsters of same level than players and multiman

Are you sure that isn't just a bug with the xp calculation over the mob? If you actually do the fight with the 4 MM then maybe you'll get the full exp as if you had eight players after the fight is over? It could be that prefight calculation doesn't reflect MM, only real group members, but when you actually do the fight it will count properly.
Unfortunately I am totally sure about it...

here this is the link for changelog in frech:
Click here

also, we have the impsvillage version, not official, in english:
Click here

uses google translate if necessary for french, but take a look at this:

  • Les compagnons n’apportent pas de bonus d’expérience de groupe.
Or, in english non official impsvillage forum version:

  • Companions do not provide bonus experience group.
It means that it is NOT a bug, it is a decision of ankama, since it is on its official changelog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But guys, it is BETA! Beta is supposed to TEST things, I in my opinion it is a REALLY BAD DECICION! This makes multiman useless for leveling, and this makes them almost useless as all, as they already are (almost) useless for drop (they do not get drops, and by the way I agree whit that decicion!)

We are a community! Lichen said that he will hear us and makes ankama know what we desire, and I desire a useful multiman on game! It is a brilliant idea, being waste for a bad decision!

Come on community, the math is right, the pictures are here, the official changelog is here, what we need more? We need make ankama hear that we want multiman that makes sense to be used in fights!

Who are whit me?
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Score : 25931

I think they decided to "handicap" exp to discourage 8 team MCers from dropping to 4 man team. After all, if MM makes 4 man team reap the same exp reward as 8 man team, Ankama will lose a portion of their income from 8 man teams.

As a soloist, this doesn't affect me, but I agree that MM, to be more useful should contribute to exp calculation since they contribute to number of monster:player ratio.

Count my vote for add exp calculation.

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Score : 30

Count me in! Useful multiman for Dofus! They must be counted for group size bonus! Lichen, makes this your first great move for the community!

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Score : 95

For everyone that is getting a hard time whit so many calculations and explanations, pls just take a look at these three pictures, making this long story short.!

XP for 4 players + 0 multiman VS 4 monsters = 1.446.388
XP for 2 players + 2 multiman VS 4 monsters = 701.316
XP for 4 players + 4 multiman VS 8 monsters = 1.446.388







If you agree that multiman should give bonus exp for group size just as a normal player, post here.
I will stop posting now. I guess it is already the most clear as possible.
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Score : 15635

Hmmm, okay I understand why this is frustrating, but I also understand why Ankama would put this limitation on MM. I mean there should obviously be a greater reward for getting eight real characters together to do a fight, instead of just four characters and four MM. But there should still be some increase in the exp when using MM. Maybe two MM could count as one player?

That way if you used four players and four MM it would count as if it was a group of six players.

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Score : 6161

lol i can't see many people using them after a week or 2.

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Score : 3686
clarkymark|2013-11-30 21:53:50
lol i can't see many people using them after a week or 2.
Yeah... me neither, but I'll probably keep the strength one to cover a gap on my team if needed.

Hmm... I guess the greater reward on a 8 man team are several, you got the drops, you got a vast quantity of spells, etc. I mean, incarnations more spells!

PS: Why ankama doesn't buff incarnations... at least for pvms? They were all talking how they don't want to make differences for pvp/pvm on spells, but shields and multimen count as exclusive items, so why not incarnations too...? I want soooo much to slash stuff with my flame knight.
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Score : 93

Incidentally, they are some industrial grade eye brows Lichen has there.

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Score : 1343
clarkymark|2013-11-30 21:53:50
lol i can't see many people using them after a week or 2.
I'll definitely be using them on the last fight of dungeons (only dofus dropping ones). since i have a 6 man team i can just let 2 multimen join and then i get an 8 loot soul.. other than that i don't think ill be using them very often
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Score : 95
Mishna|2013-11-30 21:02:03
Hmmm, okay I understand why this is frustrating, but I also understand why Ankama would put this limitation on MM. I mean there should obviously be a greater reward for getting eight real characters together to do a fight, instead of just four characters and four MM. But there should still be some increase in the exp when using MM. Maybe two MM could count as one player?

That way if you used four players and four MM it would count as if it was a group of six players.

Quote (hunataloisnopoirod @ 2013-11-30 22:29:16 (just a part of the post)

Hmm... I guess the greater reward on a 8 man team are several, you got the drops, you got a vast quantity of spells, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking why ankama, that is Always smart and look further than us players, decided to make them not count for xp group bonus size, and suddenly I noticed something:

If multiman counts as person for group, it would be very, very exploit in groups of one level 160 + player , filled up which leachers level 55 +/- and their multiman (yes I am talking about the “mastoboys”)

A quick note: a player only count as a number for size group bonus if his level is at least 1/3 (33%) of the highest group level, so a leacher lvl 60 will be only useful for a player of max lvl 3 x 60 = 180. Other example is for level 200 players, it is enough a leacher be only level 67 for him as 67 x 3 = 201.

1) Okay, if the Ankama made this decision of multiman not counting to prevent abuse of leachers, I TOTALLY AGREE! Leachers don’t makes a mastogob battle way longer (2 or 4 or 6 mastogob is the same for any sac level 190+, they will fall in seconds), but give a great xp bonus, and this is already very abused whit leacher players nowadays, but at least it makes a high level player get his xp and make a lot of low level players level up faster, making the community interact, what is desirable, but this lose purpose if you remove 3 leachers for 3 multiman.

2) Okay, but this don’t change the fact that a high level players group doing hard frig 2 or 3 fights will have no use for multiman when it comes to leveling. And it is know that they don’t help whit loot (once again, I agree whit that!), making multiman almost useless for any other purpose than get a boss soul of loot 8, or pass the first time from bosses to reach new areas.

One possible solution: I have an idea:

What about if the multiman ONLY COUNT as a player for bonus size group if the multiman has at least 80% of the level of the higest player? Or even 90% of level, if it sounds better. So, having a player at you team would still be better for mastogob leachers players, preventing abuses of this new system, and at same time multiman will be useful for players that are wanting to use them for real risk long fights!!!

Ankama, any solution will be good, this is just an idea, but please, take a look of the post of many guys up there!

lol i can't see many people using them after a week or 2.”

Yeah... me neither, but I'll probably keep the strength one to cover a gap on my team if needed. “

“I'll definitely be using them on the last fight of dungeons (only dofus dropping ones). since i have a 6 man team i can just let 2 multimen join and then i get an 8 loot soul.. other than that i don't think ill be using them very often

Are you really going to make this great update, that for sure took a lot of time to be made, be wasted for players? Make it attractive for us please! At least give us an answer like: “We will not change it because…”.

And Lichen, thank you in advance for open this channel for us players talk whit Ankama!
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Score : 6920

Um, I dunno about the xp thing, I haven't followed.

However, I will use these a lot. I am a single account player who likes doing as much as possible by myself.

These Multimen will be incredibly helpful in places where I can almost do it alone, but not quite.

They will save me from all the time I waste normally trying to find somebody who isn't busy and who is also willing to help.

And yes I am in a guild, and they help a lot. But they also have things they want to do.

Either way, I have already purchased the Ogrines to get all four of them and will enjoy the help they provide me.

If they don't provide extra xp for being in my group, I would hope that they at least don't subtract from it as they currently appear to do on the test server.

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Score : 255

How about you fix the Subscription thought Mobile. Or make your support people to reply faster or maybe tell them to give an answer when they reply after 1 month or 2month. >.>

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Score : 530

well... i immediately noticed that it is not worth it at all to use your MM if you can win the fight by yourself.... but i must say that MM really helped me to go through dungs by myself.... and also in the duo achievements... very useful for those.... also... they are useful for the loot when capturing souls.... they even help you with pp locks, meaning that a person alone could drop 200pp items such as the spell scroll of release...

so... i dunno.... dont you guys think that making MM useful for xp would change the way we play way too much? people would just use them for the bonus in xp and to finish fights faster... it would be kind of dumb not to use them in all fights... isnt that a little bit too much?

the way we play the game would change completely.... and there would not be as many incentives to get groups for most dungs(not endgame)... i feel like there would be a bit less of that social aspect that i really like about the game...

i feel like the MM should stay as they are right now...

PD: i have a question....

while MM do not have their own drops... do they increase your pp? i ask because of the whole pp unlocking thing you can do with them.... do they give you a more drops?...

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