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Sacrier Revamp

By November 18, 2016, 16:00:00
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Score : 682

I would suggest Survivor Punishment increased our Vitality by MORE, +20% is not enough. To make the situation even better, what about increased % Resistances? Imagine 5,000 HP with 10% Resistances and 4,000 HP with 30% Resistances Sacriers. Which would be more tankier, and survivor longer? The 2nd one of course, because % Resistances helps with Tanking. What about if Survivor Punishment activates the ability to Lifesteal on Water AND Air Spells? Besides, why would a Sacrier go Survivor Punishment? Sometimes, they may be desperate so it MUST be life-saving. Or... activating Survivor Punishment could start a % HP Regenerative Ability, that Heals the Sacrier at start of their every turn until State is taken off.

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Score : 7459

Um, technically the second would survive less time.

5000 hp and 10% resist has 5500 effective HP, the 4000hp and 30% resist has 5200 effective HP. Second one might be less prone to erosion though, so they have that going for them.

I think more so than res it should just have damage reduction - damage gives +damage and +damage taken, tank should give -damage and -damage taken. Seems logical, right?

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Score : 115

It's simple ,remove the self damage ,keep it tanker and make it steal life
Either that or don't do this revamp in first place

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Score : 2646
Earl-Phantomhive|2016-11-25 22:48:13
.. activating Survivor Punishment could start a % HP Regenerative Ability, that Heals the Sacrier at start of their every turn until State is taken off.
that will compesate the self damage way better like this, change sacrefice to the old one. receiving 2x the damage is just waay to much for the low vita we have, life transfer should be changed in a new spell... its too oudated.

the wakfu sacrier is a big no no no, even among pro's the sacrier in wakfu is really weak and its true because of the self damage. and now dofus is copying it, thats just really bad, delete the self damage on utility
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Score : 115

even the survey they gave us is asking how low or high damage not even ask full opinion -__- i love sacriers really but u making me start to hate the game time by time thanks ankama

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Score : 682

I think that Survey's supposed to help them decide whether and how to adjust the Base Damage of Spells and so on. If anyone voted that Survivor Punishment was "too strong", they shouldn't be taking the Survey at all...

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Score : 115

at least they should make surveys about other stuffs not only damage

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Score : 682

Yeah, like should've made a Survey about Punishment Designs but may not be any point anymore.

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Score : 115

even if they do survey or not they will do what they want and not even going to listen to what we ask for ,and actually dofus became like a copy cat of wakfu and that is not cool really if 2 games exact copy of each other
what the point?

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Score : 3677
xzaosllama3|2016-11-25 23:03:36
Um, technically the second would survive less time.

5000 hp and 10% resist has 5500 effective HP, the 4000hp and 30% resist has 5200 effective HP. Second one might be less prone to erosion though, so they have that going for them.

I think more so than res it should just have damage reduction - damage gives +damage and +damage taken, tank should give -damage and -damage taken. Seems logical, right?

It is logical, but can't apply to sacrier as well as other classes. Many of those spells affect the vitality directly too, so while resist will still assure the survival of the sacrier, even the damage of some spells will be affected by it regardless. Not to mention that it is pretty safe to assume that only from 150+ on most servers that players in general start caring about such status, some can make an effort to it, but I've met several that couldn't care less or simply could not afford a set with such.

For example, many people said here that Sacriers may only work decently with overmaged vitality. I doubt that, but if true, is it a change that is good for the community that cannot afford such items? What about small servers that can't even have those sets?

Earl-Phantomhive|2016-11-25 23:56:04
I think that Survey's supposed to help them decide whether and how to adjust the Base Damage of Spells and so on. If anyone voted that Survivor Punishment was "too strong", they shouldn't be taking the Survey at all...

What annoys me on the survey is that every sets of question could be like this:

1 - How strong (like they do ask)

2 - Is it because of the damage?

3 - Is it because of secondary effects?

Like... they asked me if attraction is too strong and it left me thinking what should I actually put in there, because to me attraction was probably the only spell that never needed balance since they changed the range and how much it pulls, yet they changed it.
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Score : 682

If that was the case, they wouldn't have made the Survey at all. Perhaps in a couple days or fairly soon, they'll probably feedback with more information on the direction of Sacrier's Revamp and even relate to the results from the Survey too. Like for Osamodas's Revamp Survey, they mentioned there was a "tie" in results, so yeah. We'll get feedback that would've influenced their decisions at some point.

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Score : 7459

I don't get all these people complaining about the self-harm whilst in the tank form...

You're trying to tank, so why are you using the high damage spells which hurt you? You have an element (chance) which is basically made for tanking, with self healing and damage reduction (and -lock) in it... Why would you use the self-harm spells? (That said, I do agree the self-damage on them is too high at the moment, the only one which feels reasonable in the new "Dissolution")

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Score : 115

well i hope they put all what been said in this thread in their mind

dude attraction and trans do self damage and we have to use them for map manipulate

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Score : 682

To be honest, I don't really like the concept that certain Elemental Branches are biased towards certain, specific Punishment States. It shouldn't be this way, otherwise it's not versatile. If it was up to me, there should be at least a High Damage Fire/Water/Air Spell (4-5 AP), Lifestealing Fire/Water/Air Spell (3-4 AP) and finally a Map-Manipulating Fire/Water/Air Spell (2-3 AP). There could be some exceptions where some of 'em would be Area of Effect Attacks. This way, it'd seem like you'd be free to go ANY Elemental Path, and if you were Pure Build, you wouldn't lack Damage, Lifestealing neither Map Control. Why don't Ankama try this route? It's like they're forcing you to go Hybrid or Tri-Hybrid to use ALL 3 Punishments effectively.

Or they could just simply ignore this if they want Fire to have the High Damage Identity, Water to have Lifestealing and Tanking Identity, and Air to have the Map Control Identity.

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Score : 231

The survey is really badly written, it just poked a nerve. angry How can one just say if the spells are too strong/weak? The int ones remove life and hit hard. Someone may think 'too strong' as in damage taken or 'too weak' as in damage given. They may try to fix it making it hit even harder, still with high damage taken, or they may take the 'damage taken' away and reduce the damage given (remaining weak and making the change futile in both cases) . Now most spells go under this situation! Too weak/strong as in what situation? Seriously int damaging you makes me not want to fight what-so-ever. Int is about healing angry I used to have 5500 hp, in beta i had 3000 it took me 2 turns to reach 1k hp. I'm Int Cha why can't I map manipulate without wasting a turns worth of AP doing agi spells and killing myself in the process. Removing spells so there's more "variety and versatility" now I neither use earth(never really did) nor int(was my fav element along with cha) *claps*. I was optimistic at the start but this was just a kick in the nut.

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Score : 682

Just as a Bonus for the Intelligence Build since they're the most riskiest and lose more HP when self-inflicting Damage, how about the Self-Heal Spell being affected by Caster's Intelligence Stats? So if they had low Intelligence, they may Heal 300 to 500 HP. If they had 1,000+ Intelligence Stats, they may Heal 800 to 900 HP or whatsoever. If they had 1,000%+ Power, this doesn't increase Heals at all. Just a suggestion.

Besides, some people may consider going Intelligence Build anyway for PvP, to equip Heal Bow/Wand which are useful. This way, Sacrier is Glass-Cannon + Healer.

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Score : 581

After some extensive testing on beta. I almost consider the revamp to make sac's damage way too strong. The self-damage basically takes the place of the erosion they used to have and the lack of healing isn't doing the class much good.

Int is the strongest no doubt. Hitting 2k-4k easily with almost 1500 int set. Ludicrous damage and the expense of hp. The true definition of a berserker.
Beserker: frenziedly violent or destructive.

I think they hit the Berserker role perfectly. But I do think the reduction in damage when attempting to heal or survive to be way too much.
Reducing dmg by 40% is really harsh.

With the current way things work in pvm, this class has almost 0 usefulness at high-level dungeons. The self-dmg is just too much.
Considering how much damage sacs can now hit, they would only be used in a suicide role with eni and osa support keeping it alive longer with heals and reviving it when it dies.
The class feels like an iop in certain ways now but with no charge attacks a 50% puni attack that does 1/3 the dmg of wrath and more mobility.
The only place sac will truly be useful is in pvp. With a possibility of 8mp and teleport and trans this basically is made to be a one shot pony.

My biggest concern is the fact that there is no way to save this class from dying abruptly. Removing 20% hp boost can sometimes be deadly. So once you go into survivor mode you had better keep up with how much hp you have or you could find yourself ko at 20%-30% area.

Another concern I have is the weaknesses inherent in agi and cha. Both need more damage more steal.
At the current time, Int pure seems to be the only way to go for now.

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Score : 3677

It saddens me to hear this for PvM =/ Although I do enjoy going PvP with my sacrier, PvM is my home with it, this whole revamp for me is al about how well it goes against the monsters of end game. I wish I could find a video of it doing good in there.

I did find good PvP videos 1x1, though.

Would love to see anything you guys have to share.

Click here

Click here

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Score : 6679

Sacrier is supposed to be a tank, able to receive lots of damage with minimal harm, like a real-life tank vehicle with thick armor plating: (relatively) slow, hard-hitting, and durable, explosive at range and somewhat less damage up-close and more vulnerable against agile targets. Masqueraider is the berserker class with some survivability and Iop is the berserker class without survivability. Technically, Iop is currently like the inverse of a tank with high damage up close but high vulnerability. Sacrier should basically be a mixture between an overpowered explosive cra (but requiring line of sight) and less ability to maneuver up-close (-dodge and -mp against close targets) but with massive HP and resistances and normal erosion both at range and up-close.

Think of a tank vehicle, and that's how Sacrier should play. You use explosive shells at range and use the turreted gun up-close to nail or spray targets close. Common bullets won't hurt you, explosives and huge bullets will. You can move quickly all at once but dodging and locking is not something you do.

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Score : 3149

I don't think the sacrier must necessarily be a tank per se. The sacrier identity is to want to get hurt because getting hurt makes them stronger and they can compensate for the loss of health by stealing life, mainly from foes but also, if need be, from friends. This makes them work as tanks, yes, but I see it as a consequence of their identity rather than the essence of it.

The double HP certainly helped sacriers to not be afraid of getting hurt. Now that it is to be removed, I think it ought to be compensated for with improved life stealing abilities. Sacriers definitely shouldn't be glass cannons or one shot ponies. They need to get stronger when they get hurt but they also need to be able to easily (usually) take back the health they have lost. Their weakness is supposed to be that 1: until they get hurt, they won't be strong, and 2: they will be in serious trouble if their enemy manages to prevent them from stealing life.

I hope I'll be able to try the beta some time this weekend. What I've heard doesn't sound promising. And with the way the transformations look, I will definitely be afraid (or reluctant) to get my sacrier seriously hurt. A bit of blood is one thing but being flayed is just disgusting, and that non-corporeal state is not something I want to see my sacrier in either. :/

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