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Beta: Update 2.39

By #[Izmar] - ADMIN - November 23, 2016, 17:00:00
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Score : 413

Most cras use 11ap, and they just made the 2 4 ap aoe spells 5 ap. Such a failure of a game. Sad!

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Score : 116

I can't wait to explore the new update when it hits live!

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Score : 584

Can we all calm down a bit before this thread gets closed? Keep it civil people!

Someone asked for facts so here I have outlined the repercussions this change will have on PvP, PvM.

1. Our 2 most used AOE attacks are now 5 ap and 1 cast only Global cool-down.
For any pure int cra this butchers their one reason for having a cra in PvM.
While yes it is only 1 out of many int attacks, Explosive is probably the most relied upon for consistent AOE damage.
For cha, Slow down is the second most damaging attack and the most relied upon for decent AOE damage.
Any cha cra now has only a weak 2 Ap attack and a charging attack to utilize.
Finally, Any omni cra has lost both of its AoE attacks in one blow.
This reduces any ability to use omni cra to do AOE damage reliably.

2. Discourages solo cra's from coming together to do content because of Global cool-downs.
There are many cra's, and not just because of 508 score. There were many cra's before this.
Now trying to get a team together to do content through recruit chat will probably call many cra's.
But because of this, no cra's will want to play together at all.
True there are many other attacks to use, but in PvM AOE is king. One cra will have the power of AOE and one will not.
A huge blow to the second M in MMO.

3. Losses and Cost involved.
Now int and cha cra's are going to take a huge hit, so will their gear. Most will go omni instead. But int and cha gear will flood the market.
Many will have to change sets to adjust to this. And despite great mages and exo's they will have to sell gear abruptly to handle the change.
Sure not everyone will sell their sets, but there will be a hit to int and cha gear. Although now sacs will probably be going for pure int or cha/agi/int it may work out.

4. Loss of Nostalgia.
For many who have mained a cra for years this loss in both AOE attacks will mean a huge shift from what things used to be.
This can be the most painful blow. Because Nostalgia keeps many coming back to this game.
Sure just because it used to be a certain way doesn't mean it should never change. But it shouldn't be this harsh.

@YEEART
Usually you bring out good points but I must strongly disagree with you on this one.
Just imagine if Journey was changed to 5 ap cost or Transfixing Gust/Burning Stroke/Glacier/Storm all went to 5 ap cost with global cool-down?
Put yourself in our shoes. The rage we feel would be the rage you would feel if Hupper was nerfed. Try to reason with a bit more compassion why you think cra's deserve this nerf.
One day, who knows Hupper maybe nerfed. When that time comes how would you like to be treated?

Just my 2 cents. But seriously, this cannot be allowed to happen. My favorite classes are Cra, Hupper, Sac.
Sac got revamped into an alien I don't even recognize. Cra is now getting gutted. :C What is going on!?
Both Explosive and Slow-Down are fine at 4 Ap and 2x cast global cool-down, please stop fixing things that aren't broken.

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Score : 2073
AetherAura|2016-11-24 04:47:10


2. Discourages solo cra's from coming together to do content because of Global cool-downs.
There are many cra's, and not just because of 508 score. There were many cra's before this.
Now trying to get a team together to do content through recruit chat will probably call many cra's.
But because of this, no cra's will want to play together at all.
True there are many other attacks to use, but in PvM AOE is king. One cra will have the power of AOE and one will not.
A huge blow to the second M in MMO.

There are plenty other classes that shares cooldowns and such thing was never an issue.
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Score : 258

You mean like iops wrath which is every 4 turns can do over 4k dmg and cost 7 ap? They didn't have to change build or worry about having to change equips. Give me another great example and than tell me What's your point ?

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Score : 2073

Foggers share their main source os damage, and it is even worse for Sadidas.
What's the fuzz about sharing cooldowns?

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Score : 258
InkSix|2016-11-24 05:12:24
Foggers share their main source os damage, and it is even worse for Sadidas.
What's the fuzz about sharing cooldowns?
Are You really comparing attack spells with summons ?
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Score : 2073

What about Eliotropes who share the same portals where it is a huge risk to leave it open before you end the turn?
It doesn't matter it is a summon or not. Such things are part os their mechanics and they still share it and nobody complains.
If you're not Ok with that, there's a 1.29 server waiting for you.

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Score : 3

I'm ok with the global cooldown. For me what hurts the most is the 5ap cost

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Score : 258
SirFrostsoul|2016-11-24 05:32:02
I'm ok with the global cooldown. For me what hurts the most is the 5ap cost
This is what I'm talking about. They're not just hitting us lightly it's going to be a hard hit.

I know ankama won't listen to us because they never do all I ask is for fairness. what you can do is give us cras a option to change classes . Be fair.
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Score : 4

i have recently started a double cra pair in my team of 6. and i am loving it! however mostly for their MP reduction/pushback and overall PvM control i must say....people in this thread acting like explosive arrow is the only thing that gives their cra worth and ignoring all of the other play styles and builds out there D: i prefer the heavy single target damage of my agi/str cra over the int based gal
i do agree that both the 5AP cost AND global cooldown are a bit overkill, but its hardly worth swapping classes for amiright...

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Score : 1708
AetherAura|2016-11-24 04:47:10
1. Our 2 most used AOE attacks are now 5 ap and 1 cast only Global cool-down.
For any pure int cra this butchers their one reason for having a cra in PvM.
While yes it is only 1 out of many int attacks, Explosive is probably the most relied upon for consistent AOE damage.
For cha, Slow down is the second most damaging attack and the most relied upon for decent AOE damage.
Any cha cra now has only a weak 2 Ap attack and a charging attack to utilize.
Finally, Any omni cra has lost both of its AoE attacks in one blow.
This reduces any ability to use omni cra to do AOE damage reliably.

2. Discourages solo cra's from coming together to do content because of Global cool-downs.
There are many cra's, and not just because of 508 score. There were many cra's before this.
Now trying to get a team together to do content through recruit chat will probably call many cra's.
But because of this, no cra's will want to play together at all.
True there are many other attacks to use, but in PvM AOE is king. One cra will have the power of AOE and one will not.
A huge blow to the second M in MMO.

What about the alternative method I mentioned in my other post here in this thread?
I'll put an excerpt of the post here:

MegaOrange|2016-11-24 02:24:55
Alternatively if the spell remained the same in terms of AP Costs and Casts per Turn, there's alternative methods that could be used.
For Example;
When first cast, Explosive Arrow does an excessive amount of damage, but adds a Global stacking effect that
lowers the base damage for all allied Cra. In essence multiple allied Cra would still be able to benefit from the spell at
the cost of wholesome damage. In order for the Global stacking effect to expire, a whole turn would need to
pass since the last Cra whom cast Explosive Arrow.
-
This alternative method would still allow two Cra of the same element to play together and enjoy the game together.
At the same time this would take away from the abuse that massive numbers of Cra in a single team have when kiting mobs,
bringing massive use of Explosive Arrow down to a smolder.

It would let the utility and access to an AoE be kept, but it would negatively impact massive numbers of Cra on the same team from abusing it.
I've left the number of times the spell can be used before it reaching the lowest possible base damage up for personal translation.
Me personally(emphasis on personally), I think the lowest the spell can go should be 30% of it's original damage after 3 casts of Explosive Arrow within the same turn. Meaning every 4th cast of Explosive Arrow from then on would be 30% of it's original base damage, unless a whole turn passes to the person who last cast Explosive Arrow.

Rather than completely destroying Explosive Arrow this is an alternative that still helps with addressing the issue that Ankama is trying to fix.
This isn't a perfect solution to the problem.

There's also another Alternative Method that involves possibly leaving Explosive Arrow completely alone.

Instead of taking power directly out of Explosive Arrow, the Developers could shift the power, rather than completely gutting it.
What I see is that the Developers are seeing Explosive Arrow's utility and availability as a pinnacle threat to the gameplay and content they're producing and trying to reserve. As such, I see what the Developers are not seeing, is that the utility in Explosive Arrow can be kept at the cost of taking away utility from other areas of the Cra's kit.

If I look into a mechanical utility that the Cra has an access off, such as Kiting.
With only one Cra and some max level spells their innate utility is strong enough to fend for both themselves and a few allies.
When multiple Cra come into play there's an access of utility available in the battle.
Ignoring Bats Eye, Paralyzing arrow, and Lashing Arrow- Even just looking at spells that can be used for Placement.
-
Dispersing Arrow is already on a Global Cooldown, which is good and balanced for the utility it offers.
Release isn't a Cra Spell, but it is a Common Spell so it's something not all but most players will obtain eventually.
-
If the Utility for Placement were to take a hit in the Cra's kit, it would have to be done to Retreat Arrow.
EVERY Cra in a group is able to cast Retreat Arrow on the same target, and are able to attack two different targets per turn, with no Global Cooldowns.
Not technically, but essentially working against low-range enemy mobs in the same way you would steal MP without there being a chance for the MP removal to fail.
Since low-range enemies usually don't have a defense against Placement spells they will continually attempt to walk into a range where they can inflict damage.
-
Retreat Arrow could be changed on a level where it wouldn't affect the individual play of a single Cra inside a group,
but changed to greatly reduce it's utility with many Cra inside a group. This is similar to my approach earlier with Explosive Arrow's Damage,
except only effecting how the Utility of Retreat arrow works.
I have a multitude of ideas on how Retreat Arrow could be changed to affect it's utility in team play involving multiple Cra,
But rather than talking about that I'm going to go back to my main point;
Instead of taking power directly out of Explosive Arrow, the Developers could shift the power, rather than completely gutting it. 
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Score : 258
Cheers-love|2016-11-24 06:08:33
i have recently started a double cra pair in my team of 6. and i am loving it! however mostly for their MP reduction/pushback and overall PvM control i must say....people in this thread acting like explosive arrow is the only thing that gives their cra worth and ignoring all of the other play styles and builds out there D: i prefer the heavy single target damage of my agi/str cra over the int based gal
i do agree that both the 5AP cost AND global cooldown are a bit overkill, but its hardly worth swapping classes for amiright...
That's a good question . You just told us you're not intel or chance so Are you right?
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Score : -127

Not liking this 5 ap cost.

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Score : 584
InkSix|2016-11-24 05:19:22
What about Eliotropes who share the same portals where it is a huge risk to leave it open before you end the turn?
Your sarcastic demeanor is not needed on these forums.
If you can actually come up with an argument other than "x class got global cool down too" I will listen with an open mind.
Explosive doesn't give a huge buff in damage like portals do and summons are in another category entirely.
Keep in mind there are rules here.
Insults, provocation, flaming and any lack of respect will be sanctioned.
This goes for everyone here. Please keep it civil, or this thread may be closed and our voices of protest snuffed out.
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Score : 258

I understand the rules. I don't understand how people see two common cra builds that are not doing great but are doing okay in what they're supposed to do which is pve / pvm what ever you want to call it get wrecked. A cool down is bad but you want to make two good spells that are not even strong unless you're full int or full chance to 5 ap. Agi cra is a joke so that leaves us with str cra. That defeats the purpose of the cra of your like / choosing. You're forcing cras to not only change equips or build but even their class completely . Why?

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Score : 1708
Gods-Angel|2016-11-24 06:27:16
Cheers-love|2016-11-24 06:08:33
i have recently started a double cra pair in my team of 6. and i am loving it! however mostly for their MP removal/pushback and overall PvM control i must say....people in this thread acting like explosive arrow is the only thing that gives their cra worth and ignoring all of the other play styles and builds out there D: i prefer the heavy single target damage of my agi/str cra over the int based gal
i do agree that both the 5AP cost AND global cooldown are a bit overkill, but its hardly worth swapping classes for amiright...
That's a good question . Are you right?
Do remember this is still BETA. Usually as long as you're civil and able to communicate your ideas, like-minded people will be able to do the same in response.
Whether or Not you have good or bad things to say, as long as there's some form information or material to work with it can be better discussed.

I currently understand that the issue Ankama is facing is between large numbers of Cra inside a single group.
The Main argument many Cra mains have right now is "Why should I have to suffer because someone else found something to abuse" , and they have a right to be upset and you have a right to be upset. I see that the excessive gutting of their AoE spells to be very harmful not only in battle but also in player interaction. I also see that Developers have taken a non-progressive step towards solving the actual problem and just want to get rid of it rather than addressing it.

The actual problem being large numbers of Cra in a group powering through mobs with an obscene Idol score, rather than Explosive Arrow itself.
I've proposed ideas towards two potential examples of changes that could take away from multiple Cra within the same group without taking away from an individual Cra.
So I have to ask you, what do you think is a good way to solve the problem that Ankama is having? Is your idea progressive?
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Score : 258

I would suggest asking in the forums for better ways or some good ideas than to go out and just throwing it in our face. It's hard not to stress or better yet frustrate on the fact that I've already stopped playing classes like feca and xelor because of this very reason, but now my favorite class . Not to mention I managed to get them to 199. XP multipliers are great but you cant keep doing that. This just tells me no matter how optimistic I try to be ankama is going to make decisions wihout addressing it's players so why should I recommend this game that can still be a great game better yet continue playing myself if this is how they work.

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Score : 584

I hate the stupid Idols and I like many, never asked for an easier way to gain xp.
I don't use idols at all and never will. I get so sick of being asked if I have 508 or whatever I'm disgusted with the idols.
It's a dumb system from day one and I knew it would be abused. But to see cra's nerfed because of it was a thought I never considered.
Yes, some are abusing 508 and int cra teams. But that is like 15-20% of cras, if that.
Basically, my point is cras are being nerfed as a whole to stop the few that abuse.

I think this is an extreme way to deal with these kinds of issues.
I do like your suggestion. But simplicity works best.
Only 1 cra can cast slow-down and/or explosive 2x (global cool-down, 4 ap cost).
This kills the whole entirety of the issue.

Another easy fix is to make 508 score way more challenging as it is supposed to be, and fix the issue without even destroying 70-85% of cras.

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Score : 258
AetherAura|2016-11-24 06:52:36
I hate the stupid Idols and I like many, never asked for an easier way to gain xp.
I don't use idols at all and never will. I get so sick of being asked if I have 508 or whatever I'm disgusted with the idols.
It's a dumb system from day one and I knew it would be abused. But to see cra's nerfed because of it was a thought I never considered.
Yes, some are abusing 508 and int cra teams. But that is like 15-20% of cras, if that.
Basically, my point is cras are being nerfed as a whole to stop the few that abuse.

I think this is an extreme way to deal with these kinds of issues.
I do like your suggestion. But simplicity works best.
Only 1 cra can cast slow-down and/or explosive 2x (global cool-down).
This kills the whole entirety of the issue.

Another easy fix is to make 508 score way more challenging as it is supposed to be, and fix the issue without even destroying 70-85% of cras.
I also hate Idols and I just started using them last week in frigost because everyone else is gaining the xp boosts so go figure. I wont lie the most I go is like 337 and it makes leveling so much easier but the fights are far more difficult . To see cras get nerfed because of idol abuse is disgusting . I will hate the idol system for making leveling so much easier than it already is. They don't focus on what needs to be fixed instead they are adding systems like idols and at the same time revamping/ making a class stronger while destroying a already weak class to fix something they mest up. Why are cras going to suffer for that mistake?
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