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Dofuses and low levels.

By Bellatriximus - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - April 02, 2017, 17:24:53
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As someone who has a bunch of endgame characters with pretty excellent/very valuable gear (at least by Zato standards - but probably compared to most players in general, too) I wouldn't at all mind seeing a PvP mode where people just have access to whatever gear they want. It would make the game an actual, game, and games where you have to grind are becoming less and less popular.

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Some dofuses are op(specialy on low lvl's) so why not add some requirements to wield it, like some quests

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i agree with a level restriction on dofusses based on the level of the quest required to get said dofusses.

i don't see why dofusses that are designed to compete with level 150 equipment should be equippable on a level 6 character.

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It's not just a regular piece of equipment though, were not talking about a hat or cloak here, or even a trophy, it's a Dofus, name any other piece of equipment that requires you to invest as much time and effort to unlock only to use for the level you are when you unlock it. I think the level 6 requirement is fine; so what if it gives the person who invested hours of time and resources into getting it an advantage?

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you just shouldn't be able to equip a ochre at super low levels. makes no sense.

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Izmar|2017-04-04 10:49:05
So, what I hear you saying is that we need a naked Kolo. =D
In fact, I think you're missing the point of the thread entirely. Everything seems to relate back to kolo nowadays, but the general idea of a level six player being able to equip an item like the Dolmanax, which you literally have to spend an entire year playing to achieve, is preposterous
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Gunnerwolfang|2017-04-04 10:58:42
As an osa, go ahead, make my day. I did defeat most dopples bare naked, so I don't see any problem with that (that was a long time ago and we have animal blessing back then, but I still think osa will rule naked kolo).

BTW: I am not the one insinuating naked kolo, just saying since it seems that you are replying to me since you posted after me. I am arguing against limitation in gears which is technically against naked kolo.

Naked colo doesnt seems to be good idea, all we need quest req's for items/dofuses
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I have a better idea for all those who are complaining that low levels are using them, why not just get yourself one instead of preventing others from using theirs?

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Gunnerwolfang|2017-04-07 11:25:38
I have a better idea for all those who are complaining that low levels are using them, why not just get yourself one instead of preventing others from using theirs?

All those low lvl got high lvl's char's and just probaly bought all of dofuses and it just shows how much kamas can change the game.. we need requirements for dofuses
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Ofcourse they do, they've exerted more effort than those who don't have one yet. More effort = more reward. In an ideal world, everyone would be equal, but in reality, those who exerted more effort will get more reward.

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So, what's the logic we are using here?

Is it that equipping dofus at level 6 is okay because someone had to work hard to get it? In that case, we should allow every piece of end game equipment in the game to be equipped at level 6 as well because one must work hard to get those as well.

Is it that that dofus are the hardest to get out of all the items? It must not be, because they aren't. I, for one, find it more difficult to complete the brutally hardcore level 200 dimension dungeons, which aren't required for most dofus. Clearly those items should be equippable at level 6, right?

It's certainly not about kamas. Both dofus and other equipment can be purchased with those.

What is the logic? It seems like you arbitrarily decided the dofus should be equippable at level 6 because... hey, why not?

And for everyone complaining about the low level player wearing what was once level 200 dimension gear and other brutally difficult things to get, my advice to the new players would be: how about you get to level 200 and get it yourself!

And the new player would then realize that even though lower level kolo is a thing, it really isn't at all and Ankama should have limited it to end game only.

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I dont really know what to think. i feel like ankama wants to reward players who have a high lvl char and start over again. There many sets or equipments pieces wich u simply cant farm/craft at the lvl u could wear them because some resources are only obtainable by higher lvl chars like mystic fabric for example.
Is this a good or a bad thing? im not sure.

If dofus would require the quest to do wear them it would make no sense anymore to sell them.

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AlphaWarrior|2017-04-07 16:38:30
So, what's the logic we are using here?

Is it that equipping dofus at level 6 is okay because someone had to work hard to get them? In that case, we should allow every piece of end game equipment in the game to be equipped at level 6 as well because one must work hard to get those as well.

Is it that that dofus are the hardest to get out of all the items? It must not be, because they aren't. I, for one, find it more difficult to complete the brutally hardcore level 200 dimension dungeons, which aren't required for most dofus. Clearly those items should be equippable at level 6, right?

It's certainly not about kamas. Both dofus and other equipment can be purchased with those.

What is the logic? It seems like you arbitrarily decided the dofus should be equippable at level 6 because... hey, why not?

And for everyone complaining about the low level player wearing what was once level 200 dimension gear and other brutally difficult things to get, my advice to the new players would be: how about you get to level 200 and get it yourself!

And the new player would then realize that even though lower level kolo is a thing, it really isn't at all and Ankama should have limited it to end game only.

So the curated story elements explaining the mythos of the game, the quests and achievements driving players to engage and experience parts of the content that they otherwise wouldn't have engaged in or had any meaningful interactions with is not enough of a distinction for you... Then your right, theres no argument for having them at level 6 then because like you say, its just another piece of equipment, like everything else.
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Gear level requirement and dofus wearable at level 6 is a logical system for PvP. PvP encourages getting the best possible equipment for your level tier, so making level 200 gears be wearable by level 6 will not make sense, but allowing level 6 to wear dofuses at level 6 would make sense because PvP is supposed to be a system that requires higher investment wherein competitors must exert effort before they can be successful in it. Everyone can run, but can everyone be worthy to win a racing competition without exerting effort in training and wearing the right gears (running shoes, clothes and training regimen)?

Yes, newbies can fight in PvP, but if they want more chance of success, then they must invest on buying/getting new gears, and that includes a good selection of dofus.

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@Anthonyclark

I do not understand your argument. Your argument is that because the lore talks about the importance and power of the dofus, they should be equippable at level 6?

But why? What does allowing a low level to equip it have to do with anything? There are other ways to emphasize the special nature of the dofus that don't have PvP ramifications...

@Gunnerwolfang

I don't understand your argument either. Your argument basically was in support of my claim that level 200 gear should be equippable at level 6. I don't see why the dofus should be distinguished. We can't talk about level tier here, because the entire point of the topic is to change the level tier for the dofus. It wouldn't make sense, then, to use an argument that goes like: "Dofus are level 6, and the goal is to get the best gear for your level tier, therefore you should get the dofus for low level PvP". No, because the whole issue is that it being level 6 is problematic because a low level cannot get a dofus without leveling, and leveling defeats the whole purpose of low level kolo because the person is now a high level.

Surely Ankama wouldn't design their game to require low levels to buy expensive dofus with kamas, of all things! Surely not. Ankama shouldn't want anyone buying them with kamas in any way... then you miss out on the entire lore associated with them.

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AlphaWarrior|2017-04-07 16:38:30
So, what's the logic we are using here?

Is it that equipping dofus at level 6 is okay because someone had to work hard to get it? In that case, we should allow every piece of end game equipment in the game to be equipped at level 6 as well because one must work hard to get those as well.
Well, it is a better logic than the suggestion of this thread that hard to get items like dofus should be restricted because only high level should be able to get one, because that could slippery slope into gearless PvP because new players don't have access to good gears.

"Hey, new players can't kolo because they don't have gears so kolo should be gearless! Duh!"

The alternative ofcourse is that those who do not have dofuses should just get dofuses instead of asking for those who have dofuses to be restricted from using them.
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I don't see how it is a slippery slope. All the suggestion is is to make the dofus be like the other equipment. If the level 40 who wants to kolo doesn't have any equipment, that means the level 40 should go out and get gear. Why? Because the level 40 can do so. It's a reasonable expectation for the level 40 to go out and fight level 40 monsters and craft level 40 gear to use in kolo.

What isn't reasonable is telling them to level up past 100 for the emerald dofus, 120 for the crimson, 180 for the turquoise, be able to beat giant kralove, be able to beat the dimension content for cloudy dofus, and only then can they succeed in level 40 kolo! Except they're level 200 now...

In practice, it may not quite work out this way. But this seems to be the design Ankama is going for here.

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AlphaWarrior|2017-04-07 17:25:48
@Gunnerwolfang

I don't understand your argument either. Your argument basically was in support of my claim that level 200 gear should be equippable at level 6. I don't see why the dofus should be distinguished. We can't talk about level tier here, because the entire point of the topic is to change the level tier for the dofus. It wouldn't make sense, then, to use an argument that goes like: "Dofus are level 6, and the goal is to get the best gear for your level tier, therefore you should get the dofus for low level PvP". No, because the whole issue is that it being level 6 is problematic because a low level cannot get a dofus without leveling, and leveling defeats the whole purpose of low level kolo because the person is now a high level.

Surely Ankama wouldn't design their game to require low levels to buy expensive dofus with kamas, of all things! Surely not. Ankama shouldn't want anyone buying them with kamas in any way... then you miss out on the entire lore associated with them.
You still don't get it. PvP is not for the casual new players, it is for those who are competitive. An d being competitive means that you have to exert more effort that your opponents, not just during the fight but even before any fight during your training and preparation stage. Build your gear first before you compete, or else be at a disadvantage. There is a big difference between a common man and an athlete, a common man can try to compete, but do not expect to win against an athlete unless you undergo what an athlete undergo.

Maybe someday, Ankama would implement the Tournament gear system in Kolo wherein new players will have access to everything that old players have, but until then, new players without a dofus yet should work hard to get one.

AlphaWarrior|2017-04-07 17:32:38
I don't see how it is a slippery slope. All the suggestion is is to make the dofus be like the other equipment. If the level 40 who wants to kolo doesn't have any equipment, that means the level 40 should go out and get gear. Why? Because the level 40 can do so. It's a reasonable expectation for the level 40 to go out and fight level 40 monsters and craft level 40 gear to use in kolo.

What isn't reasonable is telling them to level up past 100 for the emerald dofus, 120 for the crimson, 180 for the turquoise, be able to beat giant kralove, be able to beat the dimension content for cloudy dofus, and only then can they succeed in level 40 kolo! Except they're level 200 now...

In practice, it may not quite work out this way. But this seems to be the design Ankama is going for here.
What I am saying is for them to walk the path that level 40 (with dofuses) walked before they can hope to be equal to them.
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Essentially what you're saying is that PvP is NOT for low levels. It's for level 200s. And all forms of low level PvP are just for level 200s to battle their lower level alts against each other.

And that, I suppose, is where we disagree. It's misleading to new players. It's demotivating to new players. And it only further advances the problem of making the game all about the end game, and requiring people to power level to end game as fast as possible.

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That is a lot better than gears being restricted because new low level players do not have them. I don't Kolo, but I don't want my new characters to be a lot weaker without their dofus just because some cheapskate new player wants to kolo against long time players.

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