By continuing to browse this website or by clicking on the X, you consent to the use of cookies that enable us to collect site-visit statistics and offer you videos, share buttons, personalized ads, and a chat feature. Learn more and set cookie preferences X

FR EN DE ES IT PT
Browse forums 
Ankama Trackers

Class Improvements: You Tell Us

By [Ankama]DOFUS - ADMIN - February 20, 2019, 17:15:00
AnkaTracker

It's important that we involve you more effectively in changes to the classes in DOFUS. This is part of our efforts to collaborate more closely with our players, and for that, we're proposing the following plan.

First of all, know that we are going to take the time needed to do this as well as possible, especially since we're jumping into this project with you and truly want to satisfy as many of you as possible. So that a maximum number of players can be involved, our process will be to include you from the start and do things in order. :)

So you can fully understand our intentions, we'll be clear about the scope of the action. It is not about launching a complete overhaul of one or more classes as it is simply impossible to revamp the classes from scratch in the allotted time without throwing a wrench into the works for later.

We also want you to keep in mind that we never work on classes for only PvP or only PvM; we always work on both at once. Players need to adapt their strategies to their opponents. If one strategy works perfectly well against a Gobball but not against a player, that doesn't necessarily mean the other player's class is more powerful than yours; it simply means that player saw you coming a mile away. :)

A Waltz with a Thousand Beats

So that every one can have their say, communicate and be heard, we're going to consult you several times over the next few weeks to be certain that any changes that will be made fit your expectations.

We'll start together with a very overall look at each class, and then become more and more specific as we go along.

The first step starts today with a first survey on your vision of the roles of each class. You're invited to rate the performance of each class for each role as things are now and how you think they should be. So, yes, it's slow but doing things properly takes time. You're now invited to take the survey available below.

Take the Survey

At the same time, we're opening a single topic in each class sub-forum so you can talk with other players about this subject. The production team will speak up from time to time in the French-language forum when needed. You can be sure that all the messages will be read and your ideas will be passed on to the production team, no matter which community you post in, even though you might not get a specific response to each and every post because that would take a huge amount of time. Still, every idea will be included in our reflections (even though they might not all be kept in the end).

The second stage will take place after your feedback on the roles has been analyzed. We'll share those results with you and let you know if your feedback is consistent with ours. At this point, we'll ask you to talk about the elemental paths of each class – but that's all we'll say about that for now.

The third stage, after analysis of the previous survey, will be to gauge its coherency with the first. We'll share the results of this survey and consult you again. This time, going a little deeper, to spell level.

Still with us?

Following this third consultation, we'll once again compare roles, elemental paths, and spells. We will share the results with you, and the game designers will refine the spell values for a few days. You'll need to be a little patient, but you'll have plenty of time for discussion, and the team will continue to speak up on occasion.

The changes will then be made in the BETA servers. We'll track your feedback for several weeks before the changes are integrated into the game. It is important for us that you can test the changes in depth. We'll give you enough time to test the changes calmly.

In the fourth stage, we'll need feedback on the spells on a larger scale; we'll integrate the changes on the official servers and we'll ask you to take the first survey on roles for a second time. This will be a huge help to us in judging the relevance of the changes, which we'll compare to your fight data.
 

We hope that you are as motivated as we are for this project! It's a huge amount of work, as you know, but we're tackling it with you because the goal is above all to improve your gaming experience even more. We sincerely want this collaboration with all of you to be a success.
Reply
First Ankama intervention

Hello everyone,
 

A huge number of you have helped kick off the complex process of improving the classes, and we sincerely thank you for your involvement and the interest you're showing for this vast topic. Between the announcement, the poll itself, and posts in the class forum, the number of responses is enormous (more than 18,000 responses to the poll alone!). We are reading everything very seriously, and processing all this information is therefore taking a lot of time. We deliberately left time to react, discuss, debate and collect a maximum of opinions. But rest assured that the next announcement and the accompanying poll are being prepared and will come soon!
 

A few questions and uncertainties have been expressed since the announcement was made, so I'd like to take the opportunity to clarify or restate some information here.
 

Some of you pointed out that the poll was too dense, and you would have liked it broken down into several parts to avoid discouraging people from responding and keep responses relevant from start to finish. We are aware of this, and we would ideally like to have done so if we had more time before us. This decision was made knowing that the poll was a first round and that there are still more to come. If we had broken down this first poll further, we would have had to leave a few days between each section, and then submit the first part of the second poll, and so on. At that rate, real changes would wait for a long time, and the fun of playing doesn't wait!
 

Hand-in-hand with this first response, you also expressed hesitation at the lack of precision on each class as their roles can vary considerably from one elemental path to another. The process that we're following is one of "funnel" progression: the first poll was deliberately very general and did not go into detail, because the next poll will focus specifically on the elemental paths and the utility "path", and the one after that will focus on spells themselves. Even though it seems incomplete to some of you, this first poll gives us a lot of valuable information in reality: your vision of the classes, the roles that they have or should have, and the power of these roles, what pleases you (or not) in their game mechanics, and the fantasy with which you associate this or that class. Ultimately, all the "errors" that exist between theory and practice. Obviously, it is very tempting to immediately change the spell values or effects, but first the overall intentions need to be set before getting down to the details. Just a little more patience, we're getting there! wink
 

Many wondered about the legitimacy and relevance of their own or other players' responses. Of course, you don't all have the same complete mastery of all classes in PvP and PvM, or the same amount of hours logged in the game, or the same personal investment – in short, your profiles are very diverse – but that's not a problem, on the contrary! Everyone's opinion counts, and it's up to us to properly process and analyze them with the tools at our disposal. In addition, you do not need to answer every question in the poll, or respond to every topic for every class. If you think you have a relevant question or reply to contribute, don't hesitate at all. And if, on the contrary, you don't have anything to offer right away on a specific class, that's okay too. Save your ideas for later!It was important for us to keep you informed about how the project is advancing, and that everyone really grasp the challenges and methods we are applying so that this work we've begun together can continue to progress as well as it began.


Thank you for your attention. See you soon for the next steps!


[Crocus]

See message in context
Reactions 12
Score : 2997

You literally only have to rework cra......

2 -1
Reply
Score : 3285

So much to rework.

  • Iop for PvPm content (nothing quite like an initiative Iop taking off 2 thirds of your health on the 1st turn.) Staple in any melee PvM fights.
 
  • Cra for any PvM and some PvPm content. I'm sorry but this class should be about average damage but safety at a distance with the ability to withdraw MP. Why does it need to hit like a nuke from across the map? Idol farmer master. So many idols make no difference to you whatsoever so enjoy your free bonus XP and loot. You deserve it apparently.
 
  • Eniripsa AoE healing to allies when it does damage is stupidly broken. There should be more abilities that restrict an Eniripsas ability to give everyone 2AP.
 
  • Ecaflip push back is ridiculously broken, the amount of erosion an Ecaflip can inflict for 4AP is stupidly high. Kitten AI is always moronic (both healing and damage). The class is trash at long distance. Has anyone spotted somebody playing an Intelligence Ecaflip in the past year?
 
  • Fecas are the new Xelors. Why can a Feca reduce a player with 80 AP dodge from 11 AP to 2AP every turn? The glyphs to keep players in place are stupidly overpowered so facing a Feca often means you'll spend 2 turns sitting your thumbs as all you can do is leek pie them for a mediocre amount of damage as they all have Ivory dofus and abnormally high resistances.
 
  • Sacriers are a Tank class. Why do they do more damage than half of the damage classes? Sacriers are about absorbing damage, sacrificing for their allies and ensnaring their enemies with attraction and swap. Yet now a sacrier just gets stronger and stronger and self heals for ridiculous amounts as it beats on you. Not remotely fun to face.
 
  • Sadidas are a Damage class, right? Why do all of their damage attacks hit so poorly? Doll AI is stupid in almost all cases. They serve as nothing more than MP withdrawal timewasters now. Spells like Earthquake to drag people around are almost never used as they rarely work as intended. Anyone wanting to do damage with this class has long moved on.
 
  • Osamodas... where to start? Transformed from a bottom of the barrel useless class to a demi-god. Successive nerfs only made it tricky in PvM, but it remains a powerhouse in PvP. Frogs hit too hard. Gobballs hit too hard. Summons have too much health. Dragons heal for too little. Base Osamodas attack spells mostly suck, except Duster. Zombie Leash is stupid when you cant decide whether to res an ally or a summon.
 
  • Enutrof. Does anyone use this as a main anymore? What a joke this class has become. It's nice if you're doing Nidas with your 2 Cras, 1 Rogue and 4 paying leechers but otherwise this class is pointless. Buffs affect the enemy, why? If this class is meant to be for withdrawing MP, why are so few spells focused on this and why are they rarely usable? No more withdrawing AP? The damage on this class is an unfunny joke.
 
  • Sram. AI can see and predict all of your traps. Half of the time they can even see you when you're invisible or they just bug out and make the fight take an eternity. The poisons are gimmicky and annoying to track. Why cant the Sram have a little poison mark over the things they poison? Srams hit worse than other Iops or Ecaflips but they have zero survivability once they start inflicting direct damage. Their traps all hurt their allies which is often used against them.
 
  • Xelors. Since the rework, they are less about withdrawing AP and more about just not existing anymore. Does anyone play this class? They are really difficult to learn and withdraw AP worse than a Feca. They hit really low with almost any of their damage spells. They are gimmicky to place down and you often ironically find yourself running out of time while playing your turn. The Synchro is now a joke after a myriad of nerfs. Remember when having a Xelor on your team meant AP for you and less for them? Scratch that, remember when there was a Xelor on your team?
 
  • Pandawas. Is my ally low health? Let me pick him up and now you can't knock him off me. Isn't that cool? Here have a wasta. Damage wise I think they are actually OK. Who uses a Pandawa to weaken people anymore though? What is this class for?
 
  • Rogues. Why is bomb health a joke? Why do I get damage penalty on some spells just for moving? Will I ever be anything more than an AoE damage buffer for farming? Gimmicky to learn, the bombbot is a pain in the neck and bomblines get stupidly strong, stupidly fast. Tone them down and buff bomb health. Do they need 40% erosion on a spell?
 
  • Masqueraiders. This class is a gimmicky joke. Wow, pushback. It's a shield mule sometimes in PvP (often not because it's garbage for anything else so people just don't play it.) It's an Enutrof equivalent for any close combat PvM group. Except Cras are godlike for PvM so people don't do close combat PvM fights, so they don't play this class. Everything about this class needs to be reworked.
 
  • Foggernaut. Ambush. Grats that is your only useful spell. Your turrets attack you and half of your turrets will do things such as boosting the enemy or healing them. You have one main attack which is countered by the Ivory dofus. Anything you do is done better by half the other classes. Nobody wants you. You're a failed experiment alongside Masqueraiders, which is why you are the least played class since your release. It's cute when you spend 3 turns setting up and upgrading your turret, then that turret gets killed in 1 turn.
 
  • Eliotrope. Your portals bug mobs to no end. Captain Meno is a joke for you. Your damage is almost unavoidable in PvP and you shut your portals down to selfishly not let even your allies use them. By placing two portals next to each other you can heal yourself for 3000 a turn, but you are not a healing class.
 
  • Huppermage. You drain your enemies and can be lethal... if you're mono element and facing an opponent who is the same element as you are. You are awful for anything long range and Iops do more damage than you anyway so in PvP where people dont live more than 3 turns you are practically useless. Congratulations.
 
  • Ouginak. You are like an Ecaflip, but somehow less efficient. Your pet is stupid and has bad resistances, your prey system is often glitchy and misused. Your damage is worse than Ecaflip. Your shield is worse than an Ecaflip. Cool transformation though, keep it up.
7 -4
Reply
Score : 413

Bro.. IT isnt place for this here. Each class Got own topick for changes. Also ppl will be able to facing your truths without mess here 

0 -2
Score : 193

I think instead of having every class able to use every element you should focus on two or three different elements per class. This would allow early game to be much more enjoyable for new players because they would be able to get more spells for their single element rather than just having two main spells that are constantly being used, doing so would add more variety to spells for players that are focusing on one element which is what most do at early levels of the game.

I also feel ranged is an issue for many classes. Classes that have great range excel in pve and classes that have poor range tend to struggle with idols, I don't know a fix for this but hopefully someone else has some ideas. Many classes that I've tried that do have good range spells occasionally suffer from poor directional casting such as diagonal casting, this is not enjoyable knowing many others classes are free to throw spells anywhere on the map they choose while you have to be perfectly placed to cast a spell that will deal similar damage.

Class fantasy should be important such as Eniripisa healing and buffing and Osamodas summoning a large variety of summons and watching them do your bidding, I feel some classes have strayed from this path which has lead to stale choices, for example Osamodas can currently only summon Tofus, Gobbals, Frogs and Dragons, why have them summon two of each of those species when you can have them summon a larger variety of monsters that all would have different roles such as healing, mp steal, knock back etc. They used to be able to summon giant Cracklers and Magus Bworks among other creatures, a summoner should look forward to getting that next creature as they level. Ecaflips used to have high risk reward playstyle, it would cause issues now in this version of Dofus but it's just an example of class fantasy.

Staying on topic of looking forward to your next spell while also adding to the first thought, looking forward to your next spell as you level was what kept many players grinding through Dofus. In all reality the game is a grind fest from 1 to 200 for most new players and why not spice it up with spells that players look forward to? If you add all elements to a class that dilutes from the other elements, this is why having more focus set towards two or three elemental paths would be important. Remember the feeling of getting a spell you were really looking forward to because you grinded out all of that experience? I would love Dofus to bring back that feeling. Now is as good a chance as any to focus on making players feel rewarded for leveling, the new spell variants you can get from 100 to 200 was a great idea but not as exciting as I would have hoped because most of the time i'm just getting a spell that isn't my element and I have no use for.

Leveling up in a game should be a big deal and it was previously in Dofus. When you level you should have to choose things to improve your character. Right now when you level you choose characteristic points and that's pretty much it, why not add more like it used to have? It used to be characteristic points and spell points which gave the player more choice to go for a build they want to make, but now every character feels essentially the same and choice was taken away. I'm not saying leveling spells was great design but giving the players more things to focus on after they level to improve their character is a lot of fun.

Limiting players in games isn't always a bad thing, games like diablo, dark souls, roguelikes and many others limit the players choices so that if they want to try a different build they start a new character and build that character to their own liking, because of this character customization of not just how they look but how they play compared to others is very popular.

Make spells more interesting. Why have boring spells like Friction, Perception and Pandora's box? Ya they can be useful but they aren't fun to use, spells should be flashy and fun to use, the art team should also have an important role in class improvements even if some of the veteran players turn off spell effects they are still important.

One thing we need to keep in mind is class improvement doesn't just mean balancing, it also involves making classes more interesting and fun to play. 







 

2 0
Reply
Score : 25656

This survey is stupidly pathetic....
Ankama has not learned anything and/or too lazy to do it right.

Hey Ankama! What will you do if I state in the survey that I play all classes and then proceed to answer that all other class (except my favorite class) should be nerfed? How can you be sure that all those who answers your survey will not do that?How can you be sure that noone will log spam that survey to skew the survey to their class' favor?

Last time you do this the osa transformation looks ugly because you asked all the non-osa user how they would like the osa form to look like. Ofcourse non-osa user will choose the ugliest form and there are more non-osa user than there are osa user, so you end up rage-quiting a lot of osa user.

You keep saying that you listen but you don't know how to listen. If you keep up this stupidity, you will end up breaking the class more instead of fixing the classes. You will end up with modifications to all class that was asked by those who do not play those class which actual user of that class will hate. All class will be awful.

1 -7
Reply
Score : 360

You got that right mate. Prepare for a horrid  experience.

1 0
Score : 413

Overall good idea but i dont think that main issues comes form class. The problems are mechanicks and content which is unaccessable for everyone.

1. range dmg spells should deal lower dmg than mele one (charged spell for more dmg are fine) - as a balanc rang and mele fighter benefits 

2. Debuffs should have max cap per target and whole his team.
expl: u can reap only 25% OF your oponent ap/MP - pvp
​​​​​​60% - pvm
IT will stop of abusing cancer build in pvp and brainless range teams in pvm.

​​​​​​3. More start pos (mayby even whole map should be able as a start pos, cells should be sharing betwean all teams) - IT will prevent stupid strategy in pvp like t1 pyg/tumult iops, or 5x cras on range map and SO on.

0 0
Reply
Score : 4218

I think making a better effort to collect feedback on the classes is a great initiative. At the same time, I think there are some balancing issues that exist in the big picture of the game.

One of them is long ranged vs short ranged characters. In most PvM content, long ranged attackers are far more beneficial and absolutely necessary. This also makes MP removal very effective while AP removal almost useless in PvM. I think many complaints about class imbalances actually originate from this. I don't think it's necessary to make spells different for PvP and PvM, but monsters should be changed so that MP removal and ranged damage are less of a necessity.

Some parts of the game magnify the inbalances between classes, for example perc fights, 1v1 Kolossium, and those solo quest fights for Ebony Dofus. Developers should make an effort to make them fairer for all classes, if these fights should continue to have importance in the game.

0 0
Reply
Score : 275

when the time comes, i have alot of suggestions for the classes i play, to restore some of its critical core abilities, and more...the classes i don't play, i leave it blank

0 0
Reply
Score : 33

A way to balance PvP / PvM: Each spell must have a different offensive damage/effect if it is cast on monsters or if it is cast on players.

I will use some of Sadida's spells as an example:

Bramble damage: 10~14 earth damage on players and players's summons, but 21-25 on monsters;
Wild Grass damage/debuff: 8~12 fire damage/-2MP on players and player's summons, but 18-22 / -4MP on monsters;
Madoll's Infected state: 2 turns duration on players and players's summons, but infinite duration on monsters...

Of course these values ​​are symbolic and must be balanced for each spell of each class.

Other suggestion: Revise the spell variants... Offer again only 3 elementary builds per class (forcing 4 builds on all classes has harmed a lot  the game, especially the peculiarity of each class) ... With this, each class would have more spells options of the same element, allowing a good balance between mono or multi elemental builds.

0 -1
Reply
Score : -105

every time its brought up that they should separate spells from pvp and pvm, ankama says that they arent interested in doing it. 

So sadly i doubt we will ever have a game balanced at least for one mode well enough.

0 0
Reply

Hello everyone,
 

A huge number of you have helped kick off the complex process of improving the classes, and we sincerely thank you for your involvement and the interest you're showing for this vast topic. Between the announcement, the poll itself, and posts in the class forum, the number of responses is enormous (more than 18,000 responses to the poll alone!). We are reading everything very seriously, and processing all this information is therefore taking a lot of time. We deliberately left time to react, discuss, debate and collect a maximum of opinions. But rest assured that the next announcement and the accompanying poll are being prepared and will come soon!
 

A few questions and uncertainties have been expressed since the announcement was made, so I'd like to take the opportunity to clarify or restate some information here.
 

Some of you pointed out that the poll was too dense, and you would have liked it broken down into several parts to avoid discouraging people from responding and keep responses relevant from start to finish. We are aware of this, and we would ideally like to have done so if we had more time before us. This decision was made knowing that the poll was a first round and that there are still more to come. If we had broken down this first poll further, we would have had to leave a few days between each section, and then submit the first part of the second poll, and so on. At that rate, real changes would wait for a long time, and the fun of playing doesn't wait!
 

Hand-in-hand with this first response, you also expressed hesitation at the lack of precision on each class as their roles can vary considerably from one elemental path to another. The process that we're following is one of "funnel" progression: the first poll was deliberately very general and did not go into detail, because the next poll will focus specifically on the elemental paths and the utility "path", and the one after that will focus on spells themselves. Even though it seems incomplete to some of you, this first poll gives us a lot of valuable information in reality: your vision of the classes, the roles that they have or should have, and the power of these roles, what pleases you (or not) in their game mechanics, and the fantasy with which you associate this or that class. Ultimately, all the "errors" that exist between theory and practice. Obviously, it is very tempting to immediately change the spell values or effects, but first the overall intentions need to be set before getting down to the details. Just a little more patience, we're getting there! wink
 

Many wondered about the legitimacy and relevance of their own or other players' responses. Of course, you don't all have the same complete mastery of all classes in PvP and PvM, or the same amount of hours logged in the game, or the same personal investment – in short, your profiles are very diverse – but that's not a problem, on the contrary! Everyone's opinion counts, and it's up to us to properly process and analyze them with the tools at our disposal. In addition, you do not need to answer every question in the poll, or respond to every topic for every class. If you think you have a relevant question or reply to contribute, don't hesitate at all. And if, on the contrary, you don't have anything to offer right away on a specific class, that's okay too. Save your ideas for later!It was important for us to keep you informed about how the project is advancing, and that everyone really grasp the challenges and methods we are applying so that this work we've begun together can continue to progress as well as it began.


Thank you for your attention. See you soon for the next steps!


[Crocus]

Reply
Respond to this thread