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Class improvements: Time to dive in!

By [Ankama]DOFUS - ADMIN - May 07, 2019, 16:00:00
AnkaTracker

The results of the second stage are now available. We’ve taken our time getting back to you about the class improvements, but it’s all for a good cause… Let us explain.

In our first post, we announced our battle plan for the project. We’re going to modify that plan slightly to adapt to the community’s wishes as expressed in previous surveys.

The next survey will be posted late May rather than today, and will cover only the Osamodas and Sacrier classes.

We had also told you that we’d only be be adjusting spell values, but we’ll have to go further than that for the Osamodas and Sacrier classes because the changes we need to make will affect the very core of their gameplay mechanisms. We don’t want to make changes to these two classes that will ultimately do nothing to improve the current situation.


So here’s the updated project calendar:

Phase 1

  • Mid-May: new version of Osamodas and Sacrier classes available on the BETA server
    • We’re in a game design process here, so the spell icons and spell animations won’t be finished yet at that point.
  • One week later: A call to the community to respond to our surveys about the Osamodas and Sacriers available from the BETA server only, to get your feedback after you’ve had a little while to get used to those classes.
 

Phase 2

  • First half of June: All class improvements will be available in BETA
    • Still no spell icons or animations, so don’t be surprised.
  • Second half of June: Survey(s) available from BETA for all classes.
 

Following the official BETA 2.52 launch (on a date that we’ll share with you in due time), you’ll still be able to continue familiarizing yourself with all the changes, but we really needed a longer BETA phase for this project.

During this period, the game designers will have multiple changes to make every week throughout the week, so don’t be surprised if you see the BETA servers being updated frequently during this time (which is actually the whole point, after all). And please remember to read up regularly on the changes being made (for this purpose we will do our best to provide translated BETA patch notes, but they might come with some delay) – don’t rely solely on your first impression

 

This is all cool and everything, but what the heck happened with this second stage?!

To be honest, we did shed a quiet tear for the participants who filled out the survey multiple times just to troll the other classes… not to mention that one guy who filled it out 46 times. He got a whole separate tear of his own — but hey, that’s what tissues are for. Moving on! ;)

But the overwhelming majority of feedback was from super-committed players, and we were really happy about that — so thanks to all of you for taking our process seriously and for bringing that same sense of honesty and seriousness to your responses. Just to give you an idea, the person with the most survey responses submitted 76 of them, and almost all of their feedback was accepted.

So, just to explain how we sort through your responses (without getting into the details): we take all the responses, determine an average response range (just broad enough but not too broad either, to be precise) and then cut out everything that falls outside of that.

 

"Everyone’s going to get nerfed": FALSE!

Seriously, this is super-duper-false. Some of you started panicking a bit when the results of the first phase were published, but you’ll see that the results here are very different. As we said earlier, this is a process that takes time and can change along the way. We share the results with you because that’s a necessary part of keeping you fully involved in the process. But please, take a deep breath and don’t jump to any hasty conclusions! We’ll be honest with you — it’s certainly possible that once everything’s done, some of the the changes we make will be perceived as nerfing certain classes. But the process will always be a transparent one.

Find more details about the second stage survey for each class in the respective threads:

 
Classes
   
 

Got questions for us? Ask away, we’ll do our best to answer them!

Join us on Twitch tonight starting at 6.30 p.m. and we’ll try to answer as many of your questions as we can in 1 hour!

AnkamaLive

For our non-French-speaking communities, we understand that it’s tough to follow along with the live event in French, but a summary of our answers from the event will be available no later than the middle of next week in English, Spanish, Portuguese and German. Thank you for your patience.

Reply
First Ankama intervention

Hear ye, hear ye!
As mentioned back in May, we hereby invite you to respond to our new survey about the Osamodas and Sacrier changes available on the BETA server, given that you’ve had some time to test out the changes.

Thank you in advance for your feedback!
Manaia

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Reactions 45
Score : 483

Okay, this is epic.

Let's hope I can finally be a Pokemon trainer as an Osamodas.

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Score : 102

I think there's a fundamental flaw in this approach.

Balancing classes based on player feedback that doesn't differentiate PvP and PvM would result in changes that don't aptly solve the issues of either one.

At this point, it seems clear that having a separate balance of spells for PvP (either by changing their values or their effects) is necessary to maintain a sense of balance between classes for both PvP and PvE.

I also think the surveys themselves were far too generic to provide feedback one could work with, e.g. achieving less survivability in Iops, as players have requested, can be done in profoundly different ways, most of which may very well be against player preferences.

I think a crucial addition to these surveys would've been rating the viability and design of individual spells, as opposed to merely ranking playstyles of builds.

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Score : 516

At this point something needs to be done to separate pvp and pve.

Might be worth looking at normalizing stats on items in pvp (could be max rolls on all stats or min rolls) that way it's more focused on strategy than on who has more kamas

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Score : -326

Whoa, that's nice to hear, so the classes should be balanced in a year? Or would that be too optmist and we should assume two years.
Class balancing should be a constant and dynamic process, players live in the present.

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Score : -145

Sram - Those trapps triggered on "own-self" thats increase earth dmg..should be removed.. only bonus if ebemy on trap.. This way..they just walk..and 1 turn kill..

AP / MP rape.. Maybe to put limit? max 4-5 mp? and max 7-8AP? watching some class in 3v3 with full HP against trollonh 1200 FECA with -AP wand.. is annoying.. No sense.. And for example..no way iop will use AP reductuon gear..

Dkn why all complaining about ECA.. Its good balanced if only 1 element.. Some just put every single part in %dmg..and similar.. So they can use "hughe spectre of spells".. only that is wrong..

Elio - Should be fixed.. Iv seen +2 range on set elios.. and still cover too hughe area..

Sadi - SADIDA TREE should be counted as summon.. They say it is not summon? But what is the name "of summon that take 1 square?" have 500-1000 HP and you must kill it? you cant walk tru it? ..if you go around..you must spend MP.. when you + + + all that HP on trees, some sadi have 10 000 +HP? +summon on gear shold be for "how much trees they can put..and not, how much "trees" they can turn into "summon"..

Also.. why its called EXOTIC MAGE? AP/MP/RANGE.. when some class even have -RANGE and still are playable? ..so..thats part that should have better balance.. When I get +range..you know how much %res is that? COUNT THAT IN TOO.... ... .. ... .. .. .. ..

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Score : -326

A range exo makes you lose 1 to 2% res exoes, maybe 3% if you're really hard on your maging.
If you're trying to maximize your resistances in pvp you would get your range exo on an item that already has a 2-3% res exo on it.
But as you've ranted, it's very possible to play most classes without 6 range, heck, even a cra is still playable without 6 range.

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Score : -145

Xelor - that "REWIND" and similar things shold have COOLDOWN.. I mean.. they dont need MP with that.. No sense att all to use it every turn.. Masters of time? Master of Cutting Throats..

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Score : -326

What on earth are you talking about, Rewind already has a 3 turn cooldown and that's one of the main issue of the spell that makes it unviable in pvm conpared to its variant.

2 -4
Score : -145

..also LOCKING..what is point in AGILITY POINTS..or SRAM DOUBLE..when elio can just "run away tru portals every turn" for like 1 AP? ..Same for all other classes... That spells should be castable every 2nd turn for example.. If they can "rape AP".. Why Agility character wouldnt make the same? ..so..just dont allow others to "run away every single turn".. let them lose 5 MP ... attack in close combat (even if they have +ranged bonus).. for 1 turn.. or lose half AP if moved..

 

NARCISSECR|2019-05-08 02:29:39
A range exo makes you lose 1 to 2% res exoes, maybe 3% if you're really hard on your maging.
If you're trying to maximize your resistances in pvp you would get your range exo on an item that already has a 2-3% res exo on it.
But as you've ranted, it's very possible to play most classes without 6 range, heck, even a cra is still playable without 6 range.

I mean..Iops for example..have 0 range..or minus.. They even do not need to care about that.. And its not easy to get 6.. With very very good rest stats.. Resistance was just example..

 
NARCISSECR|2019-05-08 02:16:25
What on earth are you talking about, Rewind already has a 3 turn cooldown and that's one of the main issue of the spell that makes it unviable in pvm conpared to its variant.

Dkn all spells.. but placing that "purple portal" 6-7 squares away.. thats like rewind.. How much similar spells? ..JOCKING ON A SIDE.. ARE XELORS ACTUALLY INVALID CHILDRENS DRESSED IN BANDAGE..AND DRIVING AROUND IN CHAIR? SO THEY DO NOT NEED OWN FOOTS? FOR ALL THAT "MP" (;
1 -1
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Score : 724

Your post makes it hard to make out what you’re trying to say, it seems more like a rambly, incoherent mess if anything. Try using paragraphs more.

And for one specific point : If you put a cooldown limit on Interruption so an Eliotrope can close all their portals after going through them or being done using them would make the spell a lot more impractical in PvE, where generally you don’t want enemies getting close to you to begin with, and especially in late game where if you could not close your portals every turn it would more than certainly allow monsters to come through them and wreck you and/or the team. I don’t really know all too much in regards to PvP for it but basically making a spell variant a heck of a lot less useful in PvE because you dislike that an Elio can close all their portals for 1 AP is a little stupid in my opinion. More so because using Interruption prevents you from having the ability to “correct” a portal which is in a spot where it is more of a hindrance than anything else without having to place new portals. Do you even play an Eliotrope yourself? I consider myself a decent player of the class and making the portal tricks work is not exactly like snapping with your finger, it requires planning and being able to more or less predict where the enemy is likely to move in their turns.

And that’s putting aside that games should generally separate PvE and PvP balance to begin with due to the different requirements of both modes.

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Score : -145

..I also noticed 1 thing in KOLOS 3vs3.. So manny 199 lvl are high rank.. They have all dofuses.. Question is.. They do not wanna get 200 lvl? (I made it in 3-4 days from 199-200 without bonus..and if they have all possisble dofuses..probably have 200 alreaday).. So they can offen have easy fights against lower lvls? And get "easy points"? ..

 

NARCISSECR|2019-05-08 05:16:21
To reply to someone, you use the arrow next to the thumbs ups/thumbs down, don't edit your original post.
I can't tell if you're serious or trolling, but I won't bother replying anymore if you don't even know the spells and mechanics you're raving about.

Well.. I use QUOTE.. Its next to thumbs up/ thumbs down.. I do not know every spell name.. But they know what I mean.. 

1. TEMPORAL INSTABILITY / RHOL BAK
2. REWIND
3. SPONTANGEOUS RETURN
4. FLIGHT / PREMONITION
..check it out.. So I do not need to write all and looks like trool..its on webpage.. 

 
kiromanza|2019-05-08 10:57:09
People like you are the reason why ankama should listen LESS to the player base. I don't want to make assumptions about you but based on what you are saying i can just guess you went to kolo, saw a good xelor he wrecked you because you don't know how to fight against xelors and now you complain that they are too OP.  Your ideas just hint me you want the way you play to be the best and f*** everything else, as your suggestions only award close combat play.

Are you born stupid, and will stay forever? Coz you cant improve that? Maybe only knowledge inside? Its not like your muscle, that you can train.. Still your main muscle will stay tinny!!
I do not play 1 vs 1.. I am playing 3 vs 3.. AND HERE I AM NOT TALKING THAT XELORS ARE OVERPOWERED.. WHERE DID YOU READ WORD "OVERPOWERED"???? I am just trying to say.. That some class even "do not need MP".. And thats like MAIN STAT.. They can "fly" 20 squares away..almost every turn.. Almost like a Peki with all his MPs? ..JUST SAYING MY OPINION.. AND WHAT IS YOUR POST ABOUT? BE OFFENSIVE TO THE OTHERS?
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Score : 780

People like you are the reason why ankama should listen LESS to the player base. I don't want to make assumptions about you but based on what you are saying i can just guess you went to kolo, saw a good xelor he wrecked you because you don't know how to fight against xelors and now you complain that they are too OP.  Your ideas just hint me you want the way you play to be the best and f*** everything else, as your suggestions only award close combat play.

3 -1
Score : 107

Look at what class is never on the Top 100 of Kolos.... Pandas... Never! There is a reason, and its not because they are difficult to play, its the fact they they are mostly meant to be tanks but they don't have a self heal so they just die way too easily unless you spend 100s of millions of kamas on an op set.

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Score : -145

"Filthipint" is your best "friend"..

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Score : 27

Did nobody at Ankama realize that such a survey would yield results favoring the most used classes at the expense of the most uncommon?

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Score : 25812

Ankama just care about the majority that is why they are slowly losing the minorities. In a game with 18 class, the majority is actually composed of the collective minorities, so if they keep nerfing the minority, they will eventually lose the collective majority.

If they don't try to keep all player happy, they will eventually lose more. And those players who leave will spread (by word of mouth advertisement) how Ankama treat their playerbase, so there will be lesser new player coming to the game.

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Score : 106

Hey are there gnna be any buffs to Sram? noone ever talks about Sram ever, feels like we're left out! Also why cant i use invis when theres another sram on my team?? i really hate that.. also str srams end up having to use a bow.. and why is there no clear tooltip on invisibility or other sram spells in regards to what breaks invis? theres literally nothing saying anything about that.. and sometimes its really hard to tell if im invis or not, i literally have to click on my thumbnail and read if im invis.. and sometimes i cant even tell cuz i get it confused with just the bonus mp.. also why do PvM monsters guess where im at all the time even though im invis? why is Con linear? so many things that make the class feel so limited compared to every other class.. 

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Score : 1773

Sram is legit one of the most balanced classes in the game albeit being really strong. Sorry, but all your points are more of a personal limitation than an actual issue.

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Score : 1701

Please change the Mask,Eilo and Hupper Summon. They Look soooo bad !
Fix Osa's please ! The Toad and Gob fusions look horrible !
Also this would be a great time to adjust the issue with spell animations and the ticking clock.

I cast a spell and I have to wait until my Osa Gob fusion is finished dancing before I can cast another spell? Meanwhile the clock keeps ticking while he's dancing! That's not right.

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Score : 571

Really hoping they get rid of the terrible looking Osa "morphs". I want to look like my character again, not some goofy looking morph.

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Score : 25812

Hopefully, Ankama would not make another survey to ask all the non-osa user to vote for the ugliest looking morph for the osa. I've warned them before, but they just wouldn't listen.

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Score : 724

Call me a pessimist if you must but I’ve got this feeling that the surveys might be influenced way too much by people who don’t even play X or Y class and just have issues with countering players who know and play them well...

3 0
Score : 546

ahaha sacriers get changed again lol

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Score : 546

You know, i take my words back, I like how meta it is that you make sacries suffer again x3

 

Kait-Diaz|2019-05-13 09:30:45
Call me a pessimist if you must but I’ve got this feeling that the surveys might be influenced way too much by people who don’t even play X or Y class and just have issues with countering players who know and play them well...

That is a legit concern of mine, is that the survey includes all classes yet most players only have proper expirience playing as 1-4 of them. So each submission will have a few well informed opinions and the rest of the survey they will be filled based on impressions left by things like pvp.
Considering that there are 18 classes statistically that means that most submissions could be missinforming
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Score : 488

It seems that every post complaining about a class comes from a kolo player who probably keeps losing against the class they're whining about. 

But it appears that the Ankama devs are only listening to those players.

That's no way to balance a class. Simply because when you nerf one class because it's strong in pvp, another class will rise to the top and then the whining will start all over again.

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Score : -145

What are you talking about? Some write own opinions.. Thats why we got forum here.. And what do you wanna say? That nothing need to be changed?? Game is already perfect and can not be improved? ..I was writing before.. And yes, I am kolo player.. I do not play 1vs1 coz its not balanced well.. Its made for 3vs3.. I was write how some spells have no sense every turn.. For example Xelors cab "cheat MP" every single turn.. Read before you post.. Or, are you that guy who cant win in kolos? I beat every single class.. Even without ivory without very low res.. I am doing very well.. With Ivory I would be top 100%.. I probably played the most games in 3vs3 and seen every possible combinations.. ((If you got xelor in team, and they have 3 characters that can move only 1 mp by 1.. With "very low increase of MP" per turn... It looks this way.. 2 guys just sitting and buff.. Xelor walk few steps..teleport.. Puts port, dial.. Opposite team also buff.. and walk near enemys coz they are close combat (in this case).. Xelor swap 1 second turn.. Bam bam bam.. 1 guy cant survive  attack.. 3vs2 easy..) - "and of corse I seen bad xelors, who read spells.. and still dont get how it works.. but manny does.. Its called MOST DIFFICULT CLASS TO PLAY..yeah sure.. Cheat MP..add AP.. rape AP.. dont need to much range..coz teleport and do all inside 3-4 squares (some have).. etc etc..)) ..also Elio.. have portals.. cant be locked.. move how he want.. have -effect spell.. have heals.. have power buffs, mp buff, ap buff.. more dmg tru portals.. heals just by walking tru portals.. and fly "53135" squares just by moving tru portals.. This 2 classes + osa + sadi.. are for FRUSTRATED KIDS who didnt win a shit in kolos.. and I see you changed to sadi.. now acting smart,, go play your "natural choice class".. heh.. I mean.. I beat them manny times.. But on "so manny maps".. their "spells" are to easy to play and win..

0 -1
Score : 112

always fun to see how much ankama likes their non french community , i kinda miss izmar  , she atleast tried to stream a lil bit when updates with big changes came zZz

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Score : -326

I don't know, the way I see it Izmar never really did anything apart from handing out balloons (which I never got because of timezones sad).

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Score : 488

 

Narasimharameshvara-|2019-05-21 07:13:01
What are you talking about? Some write own opinions.. Thats why we got forum here.. And what do you wanna say? That nothing need to be changed?? Game is already perfect and can not be improved? ..I was writing before.. And yes, I am kolo player.. I do not play 1vs1 coz its not balanced well.. Its made for 3vs3.. I was write how some spells have no sense every turn.. For example Xelors cab "cheat MP" every single turn.. Read before you post.. Or, are you that guy who cant win in kolos? I beat every single class.. Even without ivory without very low res.. I am doing very well.. With Ivory I would be top 100%.. I probably played the most games in 3vs3 and seen every possible combinations.. ((If you got xelor in team, and they have 3 characters that can move only 1 mp by 1.. With "very low increase of MP" per turn... It looks this way.. 2 guys just sitting and buff.. Xelor walk few steps..teleport.. Puts port, dial.. Opposite team also buff.. and walk near enemys coz they are close combat (in this case).. Xelor swap 1 second turn.. Bam bam bam.. 1 guy cant survive  attack.. 3vs2 easy..) - "and of corse I seen bad xelors, who read spells.. and still dont get how it works.. but manny does.. Its called MOST DIFFICULT CLASS TO PLAY..yeah sure.. Cheat MP..add AP.. rape AP.. dont need to much range..coz teleport and do all inside 3-4 squares (some have).. etc etc..)) ..also Elio.. have portals.. cant be locked.. move how he want.. have -effect spell.. have heals.. have power buffs, mp buff, ap buff.. more dmg tru portals.. heals just by walking tru portals.. and fly "53135" squares just by moving tru portals.. This 2 classes + osa + sadi.. are for FRUSTRATED KIDS who didnt win a shit in kolos.. and I see you changed to sadi.. now acting smart,, go play your "natural choice class".. heh.. I mean.. I beat them manny times.. But on "so manny maps".. their "spells" are to easy to play and win..

What on earth are you rattling on about?

BTW, I've been a Sadida for 12 years on this my main account. Nor do I bother with Kolo, but all these changes, no matter what you think, are being driven by whining Kolo players..not pve players.
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Score : -145

Aaaa...ok ok ok..
You was born that way..

BUT GIVE ME RASPOND, ONLY 1 I WAS ASKING FOR..
TREE = DEFINITION OF THAT?
Because I was reading BOOK OF RULES.. There are: agility (and what it improves=dodge; lock); strenght (and what it improvespods, neutral dmg); chance (and what it improves=prospecting); fire (and what it improves=heals); AP, MP; Range; %POWER, DAMAGE (normal damage + elemental damages); AP/MP reduction; wisdom (and what it improves=AP/MP red); Critical Damage; Critical Resistance; Push Back Damage; Push Back Resistance; %resistance of each element; elemental damage resistance (example ivory); Initiative (and how can be improved with +ini gear, or other stats)... probably few more that I forget..and SUMMONS.. So..what is TREE in BOOK OF RULES??? If is not summon? I did not not fount any info about that summons that takes 1 square, have HP..and still are not considered as summons.. CAN YOU GIVE ME RIGHT ANSWEAR? Definition of it? 

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