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Ankama Trackers

The Cania Bandits are a poorly-designed mockery

By Inuteroden - SUBSCRIBER - July 22, 2019, 09:03:30
AnkaTracker

Five hours today I have spent standing on the Cania fields along with 7 others in a group, constantly checking with each other to make sure we're all still awake- because a forum post suggested that we might be getting close to the time frame in which a SINGLE ONE out of three bandits might spawn. Once the bandit did finally spawn, our group was beaten to the bandit by one of the several other groups that were also on the hunt for the bandit.

This is not rewarding.

This is not fun.

This is a terrible design.

I understand that the dofus aren't meant to be easy to get, I really do understand that. But on a heavily populated server like Ilyzaelle, the respawn time for this bandits is not okay.

I've done this quest before, and on Echo it wasn't a problem, but currently there are so many people trying to play the game the way it was intended that if you aren't spending hours sitting in a group and doing nothing but waiting to run, you're not going to get those bandits.

I know that I could buy the scales, but the cost of the scales alone is more than the value of the dofus, and it's not even a sum that I have. I know that I could spam treasure hunts to get the scales, but at an estimate of 100 chests to 1 fragment, that's also going to take many, many hours of unrewarding, uninteresting gameplay. And all of this to get the first primordial dofus.

The quest for the emerald dofus isn't a quest. It's an laborious grind.

28 -2
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First Ankama intervention

Hey there,

we have seen your concerns on this issue and passed your feedback on. However we have no answers yet, if or when a change might be considered. 

Talora

See message in context
Reactions 29
Score : 1253

Yeah hard agree here. I've done this questline at least 4 times on Echo with no problem. Respawn time needs to be greatly reduced for Ilyzaelle. 

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Score : 205

Agree fully, I for one have spent hours back and forth around the maps and have never seen so much as a hint of them earth

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Score : 1

I have given you my holy like.
Lots of love,
Your Waifu,
Ready-Your-Holes

0 -2
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Score : 1343
Competition for these bandits, every player in that tent (may) represent(s) a group of 8 searching for a single bandit
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Score : 5215

the bandits step of the emerald dofus quest is one of the most poorly designed parts of this game.

it is a deliberate disrespect of the player's time, which is the biggest crime an MMO can commit.

an MMO is supposed to be a time sink, not a time waste. you should be constantly making small gains in whatever area you choose, but in the emerald questline, you can sit around for weeks and potentially not make any progress. plus, the nature of the bandit hunt is so engrossing, that you are unable to do other things on the side. you have to hunt these bandits to the exclusion of everything else or else you'll never get them - which is dreadful design.

this quest step is the single most hated and complained about part of the game. just fix it already. there is no justification or excuse for this, it's a waste of time and represents a total disrespect for the playerbase.

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Score : 600

Totally agree

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Score : -83

yalll are all noobs  haha 

0 -3
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Score : 60

Aren't they supposed to be like bounties? They're tied to a quest to and get added to a mob over time. Entire server hunts them down too simply for the only source of doploons.

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Score : 1343

This is true, but the thing is that bounties are not an essential part of the main story line of the game. This forum post explains this element much better than mine does. 

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Score : 2029

I just got to this step last night on Ily. I already knew that it's going to be borderline impossible to fight the bandits based on the fact that the shards are 300-400kk in the market, and they have a 6-18 hour respawn time.
I made peace with the fact that I would either have to spend the ~4.5mk that I don't have yet to get all the shards, or get extremely lucky while all the frenchies were sleeping, but this would work too. On echo I just bought the shards for my team because they were like 15kk ea.

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Score : 417

I am thankful that at least one post is getting attention (perhaps mine was too long) and seriously hope Ankama does read this and consider a rework on that quest.

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Score : 1432

I agree that the cania bandit part of the quest only serves as a "bottle-neck" to slow server-wide progression to obtaining the dofus, but that's all it is. It doesn't reward hard work, it doesn't reward ingenuity, it rewards campers and that's what I don't like about it. Because everyone wanting to do the quest will get it done eventually, so why halt them as a step that only serves to frustrate?  
Also, if you think cania bandits are a grind, wait till I tell you about Vulbis. 

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Score : 1343

Haha, I mean at least Vulbis is more towards the end-game and not designed for level 100s 

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Score : 51

I agree. It's not only an outdated concept the game has, and i understand that otherwise nobody would give a crabapple about those bandits, but it's a seriously damaging chokepoint on the questline that keeps casual-ish players like me from even wanting to progress with the whole quesline and turn to others.

Thing is, Ilyzaelle is a kickbuttocks server to play in but right now the game is just not designed for such a massive number of active players of all kinds of levels; some things just got to be improved, because a game is supposed to be fun and not tedious or boring. To be honest though, as a returning player who has enjoyed this little RPG since pre-teen years, I sorta expected a more polished product from version 2.52, like, i can close an eye on crashes, the black maps, the occasional text glitches, but frustrating game design is what really damages my experience.

A solution to this might be to reduce if not erase the respawn time on the bandits, at least for Ily, which wouldn't break the mechanic itself of having to gather a group and find those bandits nevertheless, it just would allow more people per day to do so.

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Score : 585

As I said in the other post, I don't think bounties should be part of a main story. I've already done the emerald quest on Ilyzaelle, but had to buy some scales (I think I just did 1 and refused to do the other 2 guys). Yeah, it costed more than the dofus, but I want the content.

I think Crimsom and Vulbis are the perfect example. Even if they're tedious, you can do it alone (in the case of Crimsom) or just in a cooperative way (Vulbis). Emerald nowadays is competitive and frustrating.

As a game developer, I've always thought that you should create games hard (if you want) but not frustrating. Crimsom, Vulbis, Ice... All of them are hard, but only Emerald is frustrating by just a quest that seems like a "side quest" inside the main one.

IMO they should create them as a permanent NPC that you can attack or join others. Hard fight, balanced for a team of 8 for that level (120 I think). Heals, positioning, shielding and damage required if you want, because that would be much more fun than the actual quest.

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Score : 1343

Considering that (on Ilyzaelle at least) you already have to gather 7 others to help camp the fields for this quest (almost always strangers that don't speak English well/at all) it would be much better to have the option to gather a bunch of friends to help you with a tough fight.

Even if it was like those quests where you have to find other people who are on the same step or those who have already done the quest

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Score : 1343

It would be nice to have some sort of response from staff here, even just an acknowledgement.

1 0
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Hey there,

we have seen your concerns on this issue and passed your feedback on. However we have no answers yet, if or when a change might be considered. 

Talora

Reply
Score : 1343

Thank you very much for the response, please keep us updated if there is any news, even if the news is "We refuse to change it"

2 0
Score : 51

I second the comments to this issue. There is no good reason to have such a long spawn C/D of those bandits. It may be sufficient on a low population server but is completely unsuitable and unacceptable for a high population server. Please move this up on the priority list. Thanks.

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Score : 1343

When will the Cania bandits be fixed?

They ignore the French, too.

The Cania Bandits were brought up back in March on the French forum.

This post has received 300 upvotes. The fifth highest voted post ever on any dofus forum.

This was over four months ago now, 17,000 people have read this post and there are eleven pages of comments filled with suggestions, allegations and memes about Ankama. 

There was no response until June, where they were given a message very similar to the one on my post, the most upvoted post on the English general discussion forum.

The only other response to this thread was a Community Manager saying that "You can always buy the resources to complete the quest!".

They haven't been given an answer as to what will be done to fix this ("if anything"). But the community is clearly demanding a change, and our community managers are clearly not expressing this to the devs, and surely their job should be to be the bridge between the players, the people who play the game and the people who make the game.

I mean no offense to any members of staff here, but this isn't good enough. Simply because it is one step of a quest. You should not sweep this massive problem under the carpet because eventually people will get bored of trying and buy the resources once they've accumulated the kamas (Because as I have previously mentioned, unless you're in a full group of 8 looking for a bandit, the chances of you finding a bandit are slim to none, on Ilyzaelle at least).

Even if it's just a temporary fix where the bandit's respawn time is lowered until a better, working, permanent solution can be found.

If any mod, admin, community manager, dev, or any member of staff thinks I'm making a big deal out of this, I personally challenge you to find any one of the three bandits on Ilyzaelle. Please, spend some of your working time to get to know and understand the frustrations that are being felt during a level 100 quest. When will the Cania bandits be fixed?

They ignore the French, too.

The Cania Bandits were brought up back in March on the French forum.

This post has received 300 upvotes. The fifth highest voted post ever on any dofus forum.

This was over four months ago now, 17,000 people have read this post and there are eleven pages of comments filled with suggestions, allegations and memes about Ankama. 

There was no response until June, where they were given a message very similar to the one on my post, the most upvoted post on the English general discussion forum.

The only other response to this thread was a Community Manager saying that "You can always buy the resources to complete the quest!".

They haven't been given an answer as to what will be done to fix this ("if anything"). But the community is clearly demanding a change, and our community managers are clearly not expressing this to the devs, and surely their job should be to be the bridge between the players, the people who play the game and the people who make the game.

I mean no offense to any members of staff here, but this isn't good enough. Simply because it is one step of a quest. You should not sweep this massive problem under the carpet because eventually people will get bored of trying and buy the resources once they've accumulated the kamas (Because as I have previously mentioned, unless you're in a full group of 8 looking for a bandit, the chances of you finding a bandit are slim to none, on Ilyzaelle at least).

Even if it's just a temporary fix where the bandit's respawn time is lowered until a better, working, permanent solution can be found.

If any mod, admin, community manager, dev, or any member of staff thinks I'm making a big deal out of this, I personally challenge you to find any one of the three bandits on Ilyzaelle. Please, spend some of your working time to get to know and understand the frustrations that are being felt during a level 100 quest. 

I logged today after the maintenance finished (the server had been open for a matter of minutes) and the bandits had already been killed within 5 minutes of me searching. Please, for the love of god, please do something about this

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Score : 585

Challenge accepted!

Just kidding, nope. Not again, God.

The way I see this is that we are complaining, mods are passing the message to the devs, and devs just say "yeah we know it, just not going to fix it".

There could be many reasons for this (even "confidential" reasons) so I'm not gonna blame them for not giving us a clear response. But, as we've seen in temporis servers, devs can apply big changes to just one server. I suggest you to lower the Cania Bandits cooldown to minutes (like 5 minutes). We actually have a bottleneck on that quests, which is Breeding. Newbies won't be breeding at that level, and I think that this quest is fine to tell them "hey, you can do breeding, you can take profit from that"). That's a nice bottle-neck; you teach players about it but it's a single-player bottleneck (you don't depend on what others are doing).

Seriously, that fight is not for a level 120 (not even close). The waiting time just doesn't work on Ilyzaelle; lower it almost to 0, remove it, do the bandits as a NPC or even a mini-dungeon of the cania fields, but do something about it.

I can understand, anyway, that further changes to Dofus means you have to do it X2 whenever you're starting (if not started yet) developing in Unity. I'm fine with that; we have all dofus quests, map is huge, lvl 200 content is huge, everything is fine and Dofus is stable. I guess that's the point; stop the development of Dofus 2 at this point and begin with "Dofus 3". Although there are LOT of things that should be fixed & can wait till Dofus Unity, I don't think Cania Bandits are one of them; should be fixed ASAP, the lazy way (remove it's cooldown) or the "cool way" (remake that quest). It's the first real dofus quest newbies get, and it should be easier than Turqoise or Crimsom, for instance. The actual thing is Crimsom is way easier than Emerald, just because of the Bandits.

You don't get the feeling of "alright, quests are getting harder, we need more people when we keep progressing". You get that you need luck & perseverance in a lvl 100 quest, then just some fights for the next main quest (crimsom).

1 0
Score : 51

My little chipmunks, relax a little bit!
Your frustration is understandable, but let's be realistic here:
for how important it is to express one's feedback it is also important to be patient in its resolution, assuming the devs are volutarily ignoring the issue is a strong overstatement. We have little to no idea what happens inside Ankama, hell, these so-demonized devs could be just a bunch of underpayed and just as frustrated individual who work overtime or crunch to keep the game running smoothly small crisis after crisis (I still remember the constant crashes when i played 2-3 weeks ago, those must have been tough to solve) and yea it's easy to think that coding is just mindfully typing words into a server and abracadabra the fix is here, but what if it's not? I know next to nothing about coding, just that it's complicated AF and changing one line of a complex code can create a butterfly effect in the least expected place!

I also think that the IT branch in Ankama has a certain set of priorities, first and foremost keep the game running and functioning, second is - smoothly and third - bugless. We have all seen it's not that easy, there's always some problem, some fix to be made, some DDoS attack going on, some minor malfunction... and that is a lot already on a daily basis to handle!
And let's admit it, Dofus ain't as popular as it used to be, Ankama must have definitely shrunk in workforce over the years and we aren't paying them enough to afford the same devs as more popular companies can, so the haste with which we'll get our changes is what it is. What we have to remember is that we are just kids playing a game, built on the blood, the sweat and the tears of people in france we don't even know the faces of! And it's not like they're swimming in a pile of our 5E/month subscription, they are probably just doing their best, alright?

Personally, i would want a fix to be good and permanent rather than rushed and not thought-through enough. So let's give 'em time.

 

1 -1
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Score : 24

 

Nole|2019-07-30 11:03:25
Challenge accepted!

Just kidding, nope. Not again, God.

The way I see this is that we are complaining, mods are passing the message to the devs, and devs just say "yeah we know it, just not going to fix it".

There could be many reasons for this (even "confidential" reasons) so I'm not gonna blame them for not giving us a clear response. But, as we've seen in temporis servers, devs can apply big changes to just one server. I suggest you to lower the Cania Bandits cooldown to minutes (like 5 minutes). We actually have a bottleneck on that quests, which is Breeding. Newbies won't be breeding at that level, and I think that this quest is fine to tell them "hey, you can do breeding, you can take profit from that"). That's a nice bottle-neck; you teach players about it but it's a single-player bottleneck (you don't depend on what others are doing).

Seriously, that fight is not for a level 120 (not even close). The waiting time just doesn't work on Ilyzaelle; lower it almost to 0, remove it, do the bandits as a NPC or even a mini-dungeon of the cania fields, but do something about it.

I can understand, anyway, that further changes to Dofus means you have to do it X2 whenever you're starting (if not started yet) developing in Unity. I'm fine with that; we have all dofus quests, map is huge, lvl 200 content is huge, everything is fine and Dofus is stable. I guess that's the point; stop the development of Dofus 2 at this point and begin with "Dofus 3". Although there are LOT of things that should be fixed & can wait till Dofus Unity, I don't think Cania Bandits are one of them; should be fixed ASAP, the lazy way (remove it's cooldown) or the "cool way" (remake that quest). It's the first real dofus quest newbies get, and it should be easier than Turqoise or Crimsom, for instance. The actual thing is Crimsom is way easier than Emerald, just because of the Bandits.

You don't get the feeling of "alright, quests are getting harder, we need more people when we keep progressing". You get that you need luck & perseverance in a lvl 100 quest, then just some fights for the next main quest (crimsom).

I HIGHLY disagree with the comparison of Emerald and Crimson. While I know Bandits may be difficult to beat alone and to catch them spawned, it's MUCH easier than getting so many roses.
I know it's a matter of luck but I have done about 80 hunts and I've never gotten anything over 100-150 roses. While I know Cania Bandits are difficult when it comes to beating them if you're alone and their spawn time, it's MUCH easier than farming so many roses of sands. Just wake up super early or midnight and you should find Bandits. Ask a Friend to help if you can't beat them yourself. This is much easier than farming roses, even on more populated servers.
Also you can still buy required items and it will be more than 2x cheaper than buying enough roses for Crimson.
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Score : 417

On crimson on Illyzaelle it costed me 1.4m to buy the roses (the dofus costs around 2.8m).
On emerald it would cost me over 4m to buy the scales (the dofus costs around 3m).

The roses in chests are based on rng alone, while bandits are based on rng with competition.

I found the crimson to take way less time (I haven't even finished the emerald due to bandits and I started it first) than the emerald. Emerald might be a piece of cake in lower population servers, but not as much in higher populated servers.

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