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Ankama, Dofus Retro was a step in the right direction, but not what we absolutely need

By CoolRay - SUBSCRIBER - October 02, 2019, 21:20:11

First let me say that Dofus retro is a big breath of fresh air and that I'm happy you went that direction. But after playing it for quite a while, I started feeling... not right. I was reminded of all the negative things about Vanilla Dofus that Current Dofus fixed:

-Leveling was slow and grindy
-Quests didn't provide much of anything, except the Otomai Quests and Ochre
-All end game builds are the same since there's no level 200 content
-The game runs quite slow
-Cra's are obscenely overpowered, more so than any OP class today
-The profession system was GOD AWFUL.

I know I'm going to get a lot of hate here, but lets break each of these negatives down so that everyone can understand why I'm still a bit upset:

Leveling was slow and grindy
In Current Dofus, getting to level 20 is actually quite fast, taking maybe an hour. But in old Dofus, getting to level 20 takes several hours and a lot of grinding. Quests don't provide much XP in Vanilla Dofus, so you have to rely on killing monsters, which gets old very fast. Right now the most efficient way to reach level 40 is to just grind Snappers until then. It's that bad. Then after that you do Blops, Mushds, or Treechnids until 90.
After that, you just grind Gobball Dungeon over and over. The grind never stops, and it takes a ridiculously long time.
Meanwhile in Current Dofus, yes you still have to grind, but the difference is now you can actually rely on quests to level up. On Ilyzael, I'm level 102, and I already have the Silver Dofus and Dokoko from quests, and those quests genuinely helped me level up, rather than give me shite rewards like in Vanilla Dofus. And since I was doing quests, those quests gave me money, so now I can afford to buy a set that will let me play like a true level 100.

All end-game builds are the same now with minor alterations based on build
When I first started playing Dofus Vanilla again the first thing I remembered was: "Oh yeah, there's no level 200 content." The highest level item was Kringlove at 199. Basically once you hit end game, your goal was to farm materials to get: Sucker Set, Fungus Set, Batouta Helmet, Inky Veil, and some Dofus. This is an exaggeration, but there's a lot less to choose from for end game content versus Current Dofus. 

The game runs quite slow
I, uh, don't actually remember the game being this slow. Maybe it's just me. But it runs at a little less than 30 FPS, and I can easily notice it. There's also a noticeable delay between moving and attacks in fights, as well as movement commands outside of fights. There's just a lot of delays that we forgot existed since Current Dofus got rid of them. Obviously this is an old rendition of the game so it would be slower, which is to be expected.

Cra's are obscenely overpowered
This was another thing I forgot. During the period of transition between Vanilla to Current, Cra's got reworked for the first time, and it broke them to all hell. Lashing Arrow's MP loss couldn't be dodged, Retreat Arrow's push-back was 3 cells at level 1, and they did insane damage at range with a lot of disabling abilities as well. Paralyzing Arrow, Bats Eye, Lashing Arrow, all made the Cra's really good at disruption. Meanwhile Destructive Arrow, Explosive Arrow, Atonement Arrow, and Punitive Arrow did a lot of damage. That's not to mention Plaguing Arrow made it so you couldn't hide, Absorptive Arrow made them hard to kill, and Distant Shooting meant you couldn't get away with taking away their range.

The profession system was really bad
Back in Dofus, once you learned a profession, you were stuck with it until level 20, which point you could learn another,  and so on. The issue was you could only learn 3 professions and 3 master professions. (Magus) If it was like that in Current Dofus, it wouldn't be that bad still because of another thing: You can level up your professions in Current Dofus quite easily with less grind. But not in Vanilla Dofus. Back then professions were split: Bakers couldn't get grains, Fishermen couldn't cook their own fish, and harvesting a resource took a very long time at early levels. All this made professions, by far, the most grindiest aspect of Vanilla Dofus, and really made me avoid doing professions till even today.

Conclusion
We all have these amazing memories of Vanilla Dofus. Despite what I said, I strongly agree that Vanilla Dofus is still a very good game. The music was amazing, the characters weren't static and boring, the appearance of just about everything wasn't just for the memes, and the jokes that they first made are still pretty funny. Plus, it's not complex to all hell like it is in Current Dofus. This game is still playable, and I absolutely mean it when I say that everyone needs to try Dofus Retro.


Solution
Dofus has come a very long way in it's development, but it's time for Ankama to take a step back, and look at the source material. The classes are too complex, the game is too meme-y, the jokes are stale, and the characters don't have any subtle character to them. So here's how you fix this:

-Redesign the classes to be more similar to their Vanilla counterparts. No more chibi heads and stiff poses.

-Make all class spells less complex. Each class needs 3-4 possible elemental paths, and a simple and easy to understand mechanic. Don't make every class an Iop, leave a little complexity in there. But don't do what you did to Osamodas.

-Leave these classes alone because they're good examples of good complex design: Xelor, Eliotrope, Rogue, Huppermage, and Foggernaut. But maybe reduce their damage slightly so they stay on the power curve with the rest of the classes.

-Reduce the number of fart jokes in the game.

-Reduce the damage curve. Damage should be low early game, and high late game, with a smooth transition in-between.

Our goal here is to take the best parts of Vanilla Dofus and the best parts of Current Dofus, and pull them together to make a truly good game.

5 -7
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Reactions 15
Score : 350

I support you, and old vanilla dofus is broken... I tried it. I just can't invest my time into it seriously... simply not worth it at it's state except nostalgia, this game has not much to offer content wise, it's grindy and too much time consuming ( all the older player base is much older now and our time gaming is definitely reduced I assume i'm not the only one ) and has many imbalances overall. 
and the modern dofus... god where do i even begin.
my last hope is that ankama will not waste this game's potential by damaging it more. 
I get the sense that they don't know themselves at what direction this game is going at this moment.
so they just rollback to the older stuff becuase they know it's probably more appealing.
but they can't keep recycling this game.

my only hope is that they'll actually listen for once, listen to veteran players who understand this game much better than the devs themselves because the devs don't actually play it.
EVEN HIRE THEM FOR CONSULTING if that what it takes.
and that the next generation of this game, dofus 3.0, dofus unity, whatever.
will be based on the lessons the company learned along the years.
keeping what worked well obviously.
while keeping the core of dofus as it was.
I wish it would be more simplistic, fun, casual in a way that is easy to play\start but hard to master.
and most importantly, NOT recycled this time.
if it's a new game, make it new. but based on all I said above^....
it will still be dofus. but maybe in a different timeline... I don't know.
A fresh start for everybody. 

( and god I hope they'll finally get rid of their "sub" system and make their money of off appealing to more people, growing their player base, focus on cosmetics basically, like most of the modern big games do nowadays. AND no p2w features like buying kamas or ogrines or boosters.
obviously buying ingame currency with real money will be exchanged for ingame gear )

I know no one will see this, and my opinion will probably be unnoticed ( in ankama )
but I played for 10 years on and off, and I love this game. nothing comes close to dofus.
its current state makes me sad... I still believe they can make this right maybe with their new game that's why I write this... even if theres only a slim chance.
 

2 -1
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Score : 540

Omfg
This levelling is much much better than the dofus 2 shitty levelling where everyone can be 200 in two days

2 0
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Score : 25862

Not everyone.... I can level in 1 second...
Exaggerate much lol.
But honestly, gamers nowadays go for quick leveling models of mobile gaming culture. Only the old school nostalgia players want the long tedious grind. Unfortunately, old school nostalgia players are an endangered species, there are not that many to keep a game afloat.

1 -4
Score : 63

Well, if Dofus Retro is THAT awful... I wonder, why so many players are still playing it?
For me, as one of the mentioned "nostalgical players" with dofus 2.0 I have to quit, cause the game went more and more boring for me... before that, it wasn't at all.
And even my tries to come back showed me, that Dofus went on to raise the importance of PvP and lower the importance of professeion (e.g. scroll material).
Compared with a totally overpowered achievement-system (which made almost every dungeon-grind worthless) and the many many changes to the classes, the mp- and ap-system, the dofus and much more, all my attempts to like the "new" Dofus were crossed.

Till now... the Retro-Server is just the right way grindy that I like it (in fact, I really hate too much grinding)... and seems that I'm not the only one. Getting a set may need some time... but hey, aren't you playing to pastime?

1 -2
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Score : 16901

It's almost as if you didn't even read my post.

1 0
Score : 3774
Leveling was slow and grindy
In Current Dofus, getting to level 20 is actually quite fast, taking maybe an hour. But in old Dofus, getting to level 20 takes several hours and a lot of grinding. Quests don't provide much XP in Vanilla Dofus, so you have to rely on killing monsters, which gets old very fast. Right now the most efficient way to reach level 40 is to just grind Snappers until then. It's that bad. Then after that you do Blops, Mushds, or Treechnids until 90.
After that, you just grind Gobball Dungeon over and over. The grind never stops, and it takes a ridiculously long time.

The retro leveling experience actually let's you enjoy the whole game. In 2.x "new players" (there are no new players, but that's a different topic) are being rushed to lvl 200 because that's where the actual game is in 2.x. It's all about Dimensions, Frigost, Dreams, lvl 200 pvp, etc. Nobody cares about anything below that.

In 1.29 reaching lvl 200 isn't the goal. Especially because lvl 200 doesn't offer an endgame people aren't dismissing everything else. There's no kolo where for some reason pvp is only attractive for endgame with the newest gear that is getting released every 3 months. There are no content updates in Retro to rebalance classes and make gear you put in a lot of work, time and kamas in obsolete.

Some people would say that this makes the game stale but I say it makes it consistent. You know what you get. There's no punishment for not playing for a while. You can pick up where you left any time.

If I play a game and put it down for a year to focus on other games I don't want to read 4 changelogs about all my spells doing the exact opposite they've done the last time I played or that before I can jump back into the game I need to get new gear for a month because either the gear was nerfed or is outdated now and it's impossible to defeat anyone with it anymore.

Gunnerwolfgang mentioned "mobile gaming culture". For the love of all that's holy, do not adjust 1.29 to the mobile gaming culture. That's what Ankama tried for the past 5 years and it's what has gotten us to where we are now. There are many games that don't pander to mobile game culture with their instant gratification, microtransactions and constant positive reinforcements for minor things. And many are successful and offer something people actually wanna play, not because they got addicted to flashy images.

Leveling in 2.x is met with a giant picture of your god telling you about the many things you've gained. In the beginning it's so much because leveling is so fast that it gives them instant gratifications, subconsciously needing another level up.

Fazit: BIG NO

Quests didn't provide much of anything, except the Otomai Quests and Ochre
Meanwhile in Current Dofus, yes you still have to grind, but the difference is now you can actually rely on quests to level up. On Ilyzael, I'm level 102, and I already have the Silver Dofus and Dokoko from quests, and those quests genuinely helped me level up, rather than give me shite rewards like in Vanilla Dofus. And since I was doing quests, those quests gave me money, so now I can afford to buy a set that will let me play like a true level 100.

Quests getting better rewards and maybe achievements as a way to better track available quests would be very forthcoming. Achievements should not however give rare boss materials or insane xp and huge amounts of kama. In fact, they should only give cosmetics, titles or random items that people won't rely on. The introduction of mats in achievements ruined the need to revisit dungeons and make new gear way too easy to obtain way too quickly.

Fazit: Yes, But...

​​​​​
The game runs quite slow
I, uh, don't actually remember the game being this slow. Maybe it's just me. But it runs at a little less than 30 FPS, and I can easily notice it. There's also a noticeable delay between moving and attacks in fights, as well as movement commands outside of fights. There's just a lot of delays that we forgot existed since Current Dofus got rid of them. Obviously this is an old rendition of the game so it would be slower, which is to be expected.

The Dofus Remastered project makes it possible to run the game in 40 fps as opposed to the current 20 fps. Ankama already mentioned that they're working together with the Remastered team on adding some of their features into the retail version. We'll have to see what that actually means but I'm hoping the 40 fps upgrade will be included.

Fazit: Here's Hoping For The Future

The profession system was really bad
Back in Dofus, once you learned a profession, you were stuck with it until level 20, which point you could learn another,  and so on. The issue was you could only learn 3 professions and 3 master professions. (Magus) If it was like that in Current Dofus, it wouldn't be that bad still because of another thing: You can level up your professions in Current Dofus quite easily with less grind. But not in Vanilla Dofus. Back then professions were split: Bakers couldn't get grains, Fishermen couldn't cook their own fish, and harvesting a resource took a very long time at early levels. All this made professions, by far, the most grindiest aspect of Vanilla Dofus, and really made me avoid doing professions till even today.

I do like being able to have every profession and not being limited so severely. I also like that some professions have been merged (smith, carver) and magus doesn't require a max lvl profession. The recipes have become a lot more complex and interwoven to require many professions for a simple low lvl craft.

Fazit: Right On

-Redesign the classes to be more similar to their Vanilla counterparts. No more chibi heads and stiff poses.

I want my giant Sadida hair back. No more rosey cheeks!

-Reduce the number of fart jokes in the game.

1.29 was already filled with jokes, "memes" and references to other franchises (video games, anime, etc) and many fart jokes. That's something that needs to stay. Life is serious enough, let us enjoy the funniest sound a human body can do!​​​​

Additionally, I'd love critical failure back in 2.x. There's something fun in not always getting the perfect dungeon run. Add some light random chance that can endanger something that has been turned into boring/too successful routine for xp/dungeon farmers.

Fazit: Ankama needs to be really careful touching Retro. Because this version is the closest we have to a Dofus many of us enjoyed playing. Its features, and bugs, is what brought us to this game. You have a chance to redo the 2.x jump that made many people quit or lose faith. Repeating past mistakes might not end well a second time around.
1 -1
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Score : 16901

"1.29 was already filled with jokes, "memes" and references to other franchises (video games, anime, etc) and many fart jokes. That's something that needs to stay. Life is serious enough, let us enjoy the funniest sound a human body can do!​​​​"

In 1.29 the only farts I can remember are Tiwabbit Wosungwee, and Crocodyle, minus the fart emote players got. Also, I agree that there were a lot of jokes in 1.29, but they were a lot less forced like they are now. For example, back then, on Wabbit island some of the statues would have a penis built with a log and two rocks on it. Some houses in Koalak Mountain had a happy face on the roof. None of the monsters in the game had any forced jokes in their appearance or spells. Also if you ever tried to skip a cutscene, the game would call you rude.

But now in 2.0, Striches are ridden with fart and diarrhea animations. All the Jellies use a fart animation for their "[Flavour] Bone" spell. The Kitten summon from Ecaflip farts for healing and damaging. All the snappers are redesigned to look ridiculous. I'd go on, but these are just off the top of my head.


"In 1.29 reaching lvl 200 isn't the goal. Especially because lvl 200 doesn't offer an endgame people aren't dismissing everything else. "

If reaching level 200 isn't the goal, then there really isn't an inherent goal in the game. But that's not my point. The issue I had was the amount of grinding the same things you had to do to level up. Yes you could say that the slower leveling means you can experience the full game, but that doesn't really hold up well. If all monsters had the same xp rate based on their level, (IE, Level 20 Treechnids giving more XP than level 10 Snappers, which is not how it is in the game right now) then I agree that the leveling progression can be slowed down. But right now, the best way to level up is to grind for hours on end for an obscenely slow progression system.

This video here can provide a bit of insight on this matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c



 

1 0
Score : 900

I'm reading all of this and smiling. When they first opened the 1.29 servers i went and checked it out because of all the good memories i had. I soon realized that it was just that: good memories. I had so much fun back then, i really did. But i also had enough of certain aspects of 1.29 and I don't wish to revisit them. I quickly returned to 2.x and never went back.

Then they opened the re-branded Retro Servers. I think it's a good idea, (it is!), and i'm happy people are enjoying it. Me on the other hand, I already played that game, i did all of those things. I completed those quests, I ground those mobs, I ran those dungeons, I did that content when it was new. I'm not going back. I appreciate all the improvements the game has had over the years and i truly enjoy the game we have now. I'm not saying it's perfect or better, there is so much that could be worked on, but still i would not choose to go back.

So now, I see people at an impasse, they are disenchanted with the current dofus, so they go back to the old dofus only to realize that they want improvements that we currently have on 2.x??  Imho just commit to one version. Don't mess with it. Enjoy it for what it is.

2 0
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Score : 888

I remember when I first started playing in 2010-2011 it took me 5 months of non-stop playing to get to the max level and there was'nt any real need to because there were no level 200 sets until Frigost 3.

In terms of being able to level to 200 quickly today by comparison, that is why Ankama introduce Omega Levels they provide a way you can level up indefinitely and offer a small reward of extra pods and market space. No other game has this leveling concept from what I can tell or does it quite so well.


 

0 0
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Score : 261

The goal of Dofus Retro isn't to combine both games, it is to separate the people that want to play retail Dofus and the people who want to play retro Dofus. If you don't like playing the old version of Dofus that's fine, but don't come into this game from playing retail Dofus and start complaining that things are too hard and it takes too long. THAT is the point, the fact that I could log in to the retail dofus and get level 200 in a single day is stupid. The point of Dofus retro is to let the people who enjoyed playing the game during that time a chance to play the game again. It is not and will not be a way for ankama to combine what you like about retail Dofus and change what you dislike about retro just so it makes you happy. 

0 0
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Score : 261

The point of Retro was to have classes be very specific and not allow every class to do everything in the game. The game is designed the way it is, again if you don't like it, that's your opinion, but adding things in that would make you happy would ruin the game for the people who like it the way it is. Your so called "solutions" aren't ways to fix the game. Your "solutions" would completely change Retro since it wouldn't be Retro anymore and would completely ruin the game for how it is. Again this game is not a way for ankama to start fresh and redo their mistakes from retail dofus. THIS is the old dofus and people enjoy it for what it is. If you don't like the jokes or how the game is designed to be played that's fair, but don't make a post about not liking Retro and wish it was like retail Dofus and ways to make it different because at the end of the day the two games are completely different and should not be compared side by side. One is Dofus Retail and the other is Retro version, if you want to talk about fixing a problem in the game it shouldn't be compared to retail.

0 0
Score : 500

Dofus 1x was a grinding game cause that’s how games were. Dofus retro core mechanics shouldn’t change because players don’t like grinding or putting the time in. i love dofus retro cause of how good, fun, and balanced it was. Dofus 1x rewarded you for you’re hard work. Ankama should only do QoL and don’t mess with any mechanics or how the game is. If you want an easier and updated version of the game please play dofus 2.

3 0
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Score : 261

<3 couldn't have said it better. 

2 0
Score : 1678

since nobody mention this, whenever there's difficulty in doing something, some people will take advantage of it, turning it into profit.

minor example, hard to exp in retro server? that's why damage sadida and rat leech is viable. some people purely do such task coz they enjoy the leveling service. i used to do that back in days and really enjoy people paying for my services.

everyone have their own views and hopefully ankama stay true with dofus retro

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