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The issue with the territory XP and Loot modifier

By IDivideByZero#1532 - SUBSCRIBER - March 25, 2022, 03:12:58
AnkaTracker

Hello,

Echo resident here. I don't think the community's been given specifics on how this works. As far as we know, killing stuff in an area will decrease its modifier in increments of 2% and boost other areas within the same level in increments of 10%. Is the amount of killing needed dependent on server specific variables like its population? 3 days have passed, currently we have Frozen Lake sitting at -10% (an area actively farmed by bots who are farming Vibrating Pingwin Feathers), this has boosted Aerdala and Feudala to 20%, and Dark Jungle to 10%. I can only imagine the "same level" clause isn't restricted by areas/dimensions, meaning killing monsters in Corruption's area could boost the Klime area, right? Otherwise every Horseman dimensions would constantly be on 0%.

There are 2 issues here, both sort of tie together:

  • Echo's (in)activity makes it so the current resource prices (especially non-boss resources) are severely cheaper than the effort to get them. There's very little incentive to put resources up for sale or farm any more. This would be fine in a thriving economy where the price would rapidly adjust because of the sheer volume of buyers, but that is not the case on Echo. It's clear Echo has plenty of supply and none of the demand, because resources have kept dropping in price even though most areas have lost their passive 50-90% loot bonus. No incentive to farm -> modifier stays the same -> no incentive to farm -> modifier stays the same.
  • Which brings me to the second point. I can't tell whether the modifiers are server population/market activity dependent, but even if they are, Echo's not having a good time. 3 days have passed and you'd at least assume a single Lv. 200 area would've gained a measly 10%, but all Lv. 200 areas are still on 0%. At this pace I can only assume it'll take a month (or several) to see our first 30-40% bonus.

Nothing can be done about the first point, I'm just trying to make the issue clear. Echo's not lively enough to adjust its resource prices to what's actually happening in-game. Arguably the only resources to reflect changes to the game/server are extremely overused resources such as Sparkling Pebbles, Tourmalines and maybe Nuggets. The issue to solve here is the absurdly slow modifier changes. Personally, I think there's 2 'simple' things to do here that would benefit servers that aren't as lively:
  • Add Nuggets to more recipes, especially Lv. 200 items that are overused in meta PvP. Don't touch budget PvM gear such as Cushtycloak, but adjust the recipes for items like Bleeding Heart pieces. I don't see how such a change would cause problems for a highly populated server as it would have no problems adjusting prices to the actual worth of something. Whereas for servers like Echo this will provide a more viable option to dump resources that are simply not bought due to low demand. Currently Nuggets are used in a pretty long list of recipes, but a lot of those are either low level or not used.
  • Speed up the modifier changes by a million-fold. I've no clue what needs to happen for an area to change on Echo. Gob Akademy, the new Lv. 40 dungeon that arguably every single active Echo player is capable of doing, is at -4%. I would assume just about every active player who even remotely cares about PvM, achievements or anything, has now done that dungeon, and yet we're at -4% with no other Lv. 40 area having gained a single point. If Lv. 200 and Lv. 40 areas follow the same algorithm and level of the area isn't part of it, I have to assume Echo won't see a 90% territory until mid August when there's supposed to be a modifier-boosting Almanax.

If Manaia gets to read this - would it be possible to find out more about how the system works and why Echo is experiencing this odd modifier behavior? Frozen Lake being farmed by bots to -10%, which seems to have boosted only three Lv. 130 areas to 20%, 20% and 10%. All Lv. 200 areas still at 0% everywhere after 3 days. I know this has been brought up in the past, especially when the modifiers just came out. This issue was "fixed" because a long time ago all servers experienced a bug (I believe it was a bug, not a feature?) where every area climbed to something like 90%, and Echo doesn't even have the population to bring it back down through playing that area. Is there any plan to fix this? Not really motivated to do any PvM with effectively having a passive 30-50% Loot/XP debuff if we compare it to the usual 50-90% bonus that Echo was playing at for years.
7 0
First Ankama intervention

I'm here. Let me see what I can find out. 

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I'm here. Let me see what I can find out. 

Score : 1329

Any luck?

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Score : 1

im not gonna do any pvm till the area bonus is back to normal 

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Score : 1329

Bump ph34r Any updates on this, Ms. Manaia?

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Score : 2847

 

IDivideByZero#1532
  • Add Nuggets to more recipes, especially Lv. 200 items that are overused in meta PvP. Don't touch budget PvM gear such as Cushtycloak, but adjust the recipes for items like Bleeding Heart pieces. I don't see how such a change would cause problems for a highly populated server as it would have no problems adjusting prices to the actual worth of something. Whereas for servers like Echo this will provide a more viable option to dump resources that are simply not bought due to low demand. Currently Nuggets are used in a pretty long list of recipes, but a lot of those are either low level or not used.

I wanted to reply directly to this.

I directly oppose such a measure to add nuggets to more recipes. There are far too many recipes that use Nuggets now. 

 
IDivideByZero#1532|2022-04-08 19:33:08
There are a lot of recipes, but scroll through them. A lot of them are items that are practically never, ever used. A lot of endgame items are "uncraftable" because just about everything uses overpriced Sparkling Pebbles. There are items whose 7 resources cost less than the 3 Sparkling Pebbles in the 8th recipe slot. That doesn't seem right.

You're right, and when you consider that you are leveling these professions and not just trying to make a one off to complete an ensamble, you begin to think that Nuggets and Pebbles are just items that artificially inflate the prices of things. 

For one, on level craft, for Artifier, I need 2000 Nuggets and 2 Sparkling Pebbles. At (because I like round numbers for easy math) 400 kamas per 1 Nugget and it seems that 1 Sparkling Pebble is about 640,000 kamas. That comes just over 2 million kamas 1 that one craft on 2 ingredients. Never mind the rest of the materials needed. 

And this isn't even at the last quarter of the profession scale either. But at lvl 141, I can make 1 level 140 Idol at a minimum 2m investment, or I can make 1 level 141 Idol at the same investment for a miserly 540 xp gain over all. Or, I can spend just under that 2m investment to make 3 level 140 shields that grant half the experience from the Idol of the same level. 

And this is a trend starting at aout level 120. 
bohemia#2044|2022-04-09 00:03:12
Let's ruin once and for all pvm-ers game style and gaming preferences, let's force eeeeeeveryone to kolo so queues at kolo get less ... HUUUUUOOOOOOOO, pvm-ers! Learn to be men and pvp once in your life time! HUUUUUUOOOOOO!
.
 

You missed the boat there. I can respect that the Devs wanted to have a huge PvP community. I can respect the people who will min/max their sets just to spend days in the Kolo having their fun. The Devs need to repsect, much like you do, that not everyone likes PvP, and you may alienate more people by forcing the inclusion of an aspect of a game that they don't enjoy.

It's one thing to enjoy something, it's another to force feed it to people who clearly dislike it.
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Score : 1329

There are a lot of recipes, but scroll through them. A lot of them are items that are practically never, ever used. A lot of endgame items are "uncraftable" because just about everything uses overpriced Sparkling Pebbles. There are items whose 7 resources cost less than the 3 Sparkling Pebbles in the 8th recipe slot. That doesn't seem right.

3 -1
Score : 3541

 

discarder#6514|2022-04-08 15:15:56
 
bohemia#2044|2022-04-09 00:03:12
Let's ruin once and for all pvm-ers game style and gaming preferences, let's force eeeeeeveryone to kolo so queues at kolo get less ... HUUUUUOOOOOOOO, pvm-ers! Learn to be men and pvp once in your life time! HUUUUUUOOOOOO!
.
 


You missed the boat there. I can respect that the Devs wanted to have a huge PvP community. I can respect the people who will min/max their sets just to spend days in the Kolo having their fun. The Devs need to repsect, much like you do, that not everyone likes PvP, and you may alienate more people by forcing the inclusion of an aspect of a game that they don't enjoy.

It's one thing to enjoy something, it's another to force feed it to people who clearly dislike it.


 


Well ...

All I can tell you, is:
  • you're trying to convince a thirsty unikorn to drink water ! wink
  • maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to re-read that post you're quoting, form a different angle? rolleyes
  • I am, not only ig, but irl too, all about respecting people's choices/ decisions/ beliefs; I do not like nor tend to judge people, cuz I do not like being judged (especially by people who have never been in my shoes, nor know at least what size I am wearing) .huh

Let me know ...

 
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IDivideByZero#1532|2022-04-08 12:53:13
Bump ph34r Any updates on this, Ms. Manaia?

Hello, sir!
Thank you for the topic and for the patience in getting a reply. <3
This topic is a rabbit hole of an adventure, and I am still working on gathering information. Nevertheless, I want to answer this matter completely, and I am not yet satisfied with what I have.
However, I can tell you that it is an interesting and valid discussion internally, and I hope to be able to come back to you next week with more details. ph34r
Score : 3541
ermmm ... then what does it happen with the less xp/ drops, during this time? I mean... the word comp**sation comes to mind? maybe?
  • I don't particularly pay attention to my xp, but I see it on new/ returning players, that they need ,ore time to level, gaining less xp in dungeons that, from what I recall, used to bring far more xp; and that happens around the world of twelve, sortof ... so maybe the % on and off for an area are being calculated atm based on a server with hugeee population compared to Echo, so Echo can not meet certain possible algorithm quotas of fights in areas, to drop some, raise others, blabalblba, at a desirable % ;
  • As for drops, I think they are a bittish lessish lately; even meat, especially HL meat, drops harder, even with idols;

also, there is a tendency on Echo:
  • - new freshly out on 2.x live Echo resources (drops, etc) cost insanely expensive at the beginning, since only few are able to run certain areas;
  • - but in time (aka, months, or a year or two) all drops dramticaly;
  • - well, all, but pebbles, the ones from kolo, which get up and up and upppperr in price, regardless of what happens in pvm area of the game; while roses of sands and nuggets stay more or less constant in price, with a less acute tendency to raise price over time;

at first, I thought that maybe making:
  • recipes with less kolo pebbles for pvm gear;
  • recipes with more kolo pebles for pvp gear;
might just balance the prices and demand a bit;
but then I thought again: it would only increase demand for kolo pebbles, so prices might rise even more quickly;

a (temporary) solution might be to reduce by 25% the amount of pebbles needed:
  • if 1 spark is needed, then 7-8 gleaming to be used instead;
  • if 2 sparks are needed, then 1 spark and 5 gleaming to be used;
  • if 1 gleam is needed, then 7-8 crims to be used instead;
  • if 2 gleams are needed, then 1 gleam and 5 crims to be used instead;
  • and so on;
this might reduce by a tiny bit the demand for it, and maybe it would lower just a tiiiinnny bit the prices for kolo resources;
it just aint fair, at all, that 1 or 2 slots (kolo pebs and nuggs) cost more than 6-7 slots of pvm resurces;

(I'll edit, might add a bit to this post later/ tomorrow, sorry, sleepy, loads of walks irl last few days... probs as much as I walk in a week without gps mounts around the world of 12)
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Score : 1044

 

bohemia#2044|2022-04-14 10:08:35
  • - well, all, but pebbles, the ones from kolo, which get up and up and upppperr in price, regardless of what happens in pvm area of the game; while roses of sands and nuggets stay more or less constant in price, with a less acute tendency to raise price over time;

Kolo resources have jumped dramatically in price since the Kolo patch nerfing easy Kolossoken farming. They might need to bump up the number of tokens given by wins?
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Score : 2

In general on Echo everything seems to stand and fall with pebbles at the moment. Idk what was changed but prices for the highlvl pebbles changed from 250kk zu 560kk while I took a break and crafting is an absolute nightmare now. The price of a lot of (even and expecially mid-level) equipment doubled aswell. I am a litte afraid of casual players stopping to play once they reach lvl 120 and realise how many kamas they need to progress. I know most of the playedbase has reached endgame 5 years ago but getting new players to stay seems somewhat important too.

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