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Remove Cire Momore from questline or make the dungeon doable

By gucinkowiec#5140 - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - January 11, 2023, 23:48:18
Serveral days ago I've written post about insane difficulty of Cire Momore after 03.01.2023 maintenance. There is also very popular topic on French forum about it. Ankama answered that they actually will not change it smile As I and many others mentioned (and even calculated) Cire Momore is pretty much undoable right now. There IS a difference between CHALLENGING and IMPOSSIBLE to complete.

As someone who loves doing quests (I've got more then 6000 quests completed if I sum them from my 5 characters) and actually reads the storyline, I find it very unfair and disrespectful that I am not able to finish the questline, just because I wasn't able to play just after 1st release when I could solo it with my iop or after 2nd release when Cire Momore was doable smile

I don't care about the dungeon itself anymore after Ankama's response, because if you don't want to change the dungeon (to be fair you might aswell remove it from the game, it won't be much difference atm), just please remove the last quest from questline which requires to kill Cire Momore, so people can complete the achievement.

I know that I migth sound frustrated, but that's how I'm actually feeling right now. If anyone doubts my opinion, please firstly try to kill Cire Momore and then come back to my post.
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They didn't say it won't change. They said there are CURRENTLY no plans for adjustments. Currently means "right now". A change can happen after discussions. They already said, in the same post, that they will tell the team about this.

Cire has been done at least once that I know of, so it isn't impossible, but it requires a ton of summons from sram/sadida to actually do. So really just messing with the AI (Sram is also nice due to being cloaked, which means you can move freely even in cac of him).

I've tested only duo (me and my duo and 2 companions) and it's fine until he gets juiced. -100 mp you cannot cleanse, reducing healing and such. It's pretty awful. I think the biggest trigger is the -100 mp. Idk what you are meant to do when you get -100 mp + gravity. Die? lol. 

To me, it just seems it's a class specific boss, rather than a boss any combination of classes can do, which imo is bad for the game. I think they underestimated how powerful he can be with all his buffs due to his 2nd phase never properly playing out.

They buffed his res by pretty much double in a 6 man, and then it gets an additional 15%, earlier, and a giant shield you cannot cleanse. You can't life steal off the shield and he deals mega damage. This damage can be offsetted ofc with fire/neutral/strength resist gear, as I only have 11% fire res, but I do have jahash + elemental shield, but I do not think I am opti in any way to survive attacks from the boss. I think in a 6 man it isn't that big of a deal, as he will attack different targets (in theory).

But yeah, he has more hp as well, so it means he heals for more, so maybe erosion is important for him, but even then... It's just that -100 mp is awful. What do you do when you are -100 mp + pulled + gravity + heavy. Die. lol. 

idk. I wish I had 6 people to test it with more, but these are just my feelings off examining in-game and what others have said to formulate my own opinion. He should be hard, but I do feel he is a bit too hard. People doing 3 minutes run and doing the same moves was bad for the game imo. Him applying -100 mp that is cleansable and doing different actions should make the fight more dynamic, which is the goal of the changes.

So yeah, make the -100 cleansable or only make it an MP reduction, MAYBE lower damage a bit (he casts more often, we buffed his damage/made the fight longer while making him able to cast more). I remember even before the buffs, if 1, 2 people died, he did SOOO much damage. Also, maybe increase the instakill on turn from 10 to 20, if he is so strong, no one is going to abuse anything by soloing him or something. You can still keep it, but giving breathing room to be more tactical would be nice. 

Oh, and the fact when he phases, and now earlier at 75% compared to 65% like it used to be, you can't damage him further until the start of his turn. It's fine to have this, but not with the current numbers.

I just personally do not understand how the boss, at the convention, was being done in 30 seconds, as shown on twitter via screenshots of people beating cire multiple times in under a minute, and he was released in the way he was and then buffed massively. We were also told "he will be the same as he was when teased at our event in real life". Idk how true that was, I think he was buffed quite a bit, which is fine. But then to get massive buffs... Idk. It seems ankama doesn't understand that people can farm the hell out of things is fast ways, such as kwismas presents and now cire wax. Saw a screenshot of some guy with 600+ wax 200 hearts, doing 3 minutes kills on tal'kasha server. It's just like... Idk. The conventions had short fights, likely the same stuff, and even me doing the fight with 4 randoms and my duo.. it was the same thing everytime. So if there goal wasn't to have this, idk how it was missed.
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Well, I used translator, so I might misunderstood the message. But to be honest that doesn't change anything - dungeon is completly broken so my question is, when EXACTLY are they going to fix it?
Let's think for a while about the past fixes:
1. When Missiz Freeze was possible to win with invisible sram, they very quickly made update that she unbewitches unvisible characters.
2. When Merkator and his mobs ran into eliotrope's portals there was very quick fix aswell.
3. When panda could lock all Ilyzaelle mobs there was also very quick fix and mob gained 200 dodge.
4. I've already mentioned Kabaal in my other post.
5. Cire Momore was too easy, so they buffed it for the first time.
There are probably more examples, these are just which came to my mind while writing this message. So when released content is too easy Ankama very quickly reacts, so people will not be able to abuse it - and that is very cool, because it won't ruin the economy and fun of doing challenging stuff.

HOWEVER the other way round when content is bugged or harder then intended, fixes DO NOT come that quickly. I mentioned Missiz Freeze and about quick fix with invisibility, but actually first thing which comes to mind is, that she was bugged for such a long time (almost 2 years? I don't remember, maybe a bit shorter). Some say Bethel Akarna is bugged for several months (I haven't checked it) and afaik still no fix, because sometimes people still write about it on the forum.

"Luckily" Cire Momore is so broken that maybe fix will come sooner, but if they were able to update it twice already, I think at 17.01.2023 maintenance he SHOULD be fixed, shouldn't it? Btw you mentioned guy with wax hearts. Nobody else is able to drop Cire Momore resources. Isn't it monopoly which ruins the economy as much as when content is easier then intended, so the fix should come asap?

The whole idea of this dungeon was just ridiculous even before 2nd buff. The tactic is: you can hit only 2 cells away so you have come close and then run away to hide - very creative and very balanced for classes, which deal ranged damage or can not boost their MP. I still can not believe how the hell it didn't come out WAY sooner on beta stage and how Ankama after so many years could think something like this will be challening or enjoyable. I think someone takes programmers joke about "production tests" a bit too seriously.

I have no longer time to play this game as I used to - rush every new update and go for 100% achievements. I play 1-2 weeks every several months just to make new questlines and still try to enjoy this game. So I did after Christmas and then when I'm at the end of questline there is maintenance, which makes it impossible to finish it. I just want to make sure that when I will be back in the game (probably in second half of February or maybe in March), I will be able to complete the questline, which I would have completed already if I had time to play a bit sooner, when Cire Momore was doable...

I think the whole frustration about this game comes out of me after so many years playing, because I still enjoy doing new questlines and it's just disappointing to see the same mistakes again and again.

But at least after writing all these things I feel a bit better now haha biggrin
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Another game's update took the top spot on my list for now, but I'm disappointed to hear that I will inevitably hit a wall in the content once I do get around to Dofus again.

I appreciate that Ankama seems to have made a balancing decision based on an abnormal completion rate for the content. But it seems like in recent years, this kind of data gets used to justify outsized buffs to certain content. Inconsistently so. Just look at how long most endgame dungeons were allowed to be so trivialized by Rogue/Panda before meaningful changes were made.

I worry that the completion rate for Cire Momore tumbling off a cliff will not be taken seriously, in keeping with how Ankama traditionally handles boss balancing.

To be clear, this is not good endgame content design, and this frustrates me to no end every single time. If Ankama is so compelled to provide challenges of this level for the most talented of players, then it's beyond time to take a cue from FFXIV and split content into multiple difficulty modes for all skill sets, with the higher difficulties producing appropriate rewards and a true challenge for the best among us.
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Well, Dofus always has been unbalanced for some classes, because it's quite hard to make character good at pvm and at the same time at pvp.
Spell variants were just perfect (and missed) opportunity to separate pvp from pvm.

I am pvm solo player with team enu, fogger, panda, elio, iop. If I do some harder quest fights nearly always I win easily with panda (a bit harder after the nerf), fogger depends on fight, elio depends on me if I play good or bad and nearly always I struggle with enu and iop. Obviously enu has mp reduction and iop has jump/wrath/vitality, so after more fights I'm finally able to win with every character.

Bigger problem is that very often the best tactic is just to get melee damage set with resistance, because it's impossible to avoid damage anyway. Many fights (especially in quests) became very random and some classes need luck with critical hits or placement to win and other classes make the endgame content looks easy. This fact favors some classes as you said. It just feels pointless to try to make the fight 50 times if you can play autowin technique. Obviously satisfaction is bigger when you win without meta class, but time is something you can't buy haha biggrin

Another problem is that legendary items and Dofuses allow to make extremly powerful combinations (like panda with critical resistance set before the nerf). I'm 100% sure that Cire Momore set will also provide opportunity to abuse some game mechanic (I've already heard in 1v1 kolo it's horrible).

After this maintenance I was wondering how the game can be possibly balanced. I even had quite extreme idea that if % off selling was banned maybe leeching also should be? But as I said I'm pvm player with team so it wouldn't hit me, but would hit people who play with just 1 account and it would make endgame content completly inaccessible for them so that's not a good solution.

At this point I can't see the way this game might be balanced, but I feel like Ankama creates more and more problems, which I hope somehow will be solved when Dofus 3 is finally released.

Unluckily Ankama very often does not listen to players - the best example is iop's tumult and pugilat. Literally everybody said, just put 1st turn cooldown and leave the damage as it is. And what they did? Nerfed damage without cooldown.
That's why I'm so frustrated that again we have to deal with another problem and devs might aswell ignore it or solve it how THEY want it, instead of listening to the players who ACTUALLY play this game. And as I said in one of my previous posts, we do want CHALLENGING content but also enjoyable, because that's why people play games, don't they?
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A little update: Volca did this fight biggrin

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

But even he said in comment Cire Momore should be nerfed and requires specific classes to win, so I don't think anyone has to say anything more biggrin
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