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The morality (and legality?) of buying people P2P accounts..

By Mavelrick March 09, 2009, 13:27:53

I've been offered by a few people (guildies mostly) to buy them a P2P account. Now, I have no problem putting down a few real world bucks for a good guild member who has no way of becoming P2P due to what ever restrictions they have. But, is this a moral thing to do? Everyone (Guilded or not) who asked if I could help them out said they would repay me in items or kamas.

So it boils down to; Is trading real world money (via buying a subscription for someone) for in-game kamas a bad or immoral thing? Is it no better than buying from a gold farmer?

I mean, did I work for the kamas? No. But someone did, and they weren't a bot. So doesn't that mean it's all a fair trade and fair gain for both members? I'm also not paying some annoying gold farmer, I'm paying the company that makes/supports our game.

I guess it all boils down to morality. What are you opinions on buying other people P2P subscriptions? Hell, is it even allowed or would I be breaking the rules?

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Mavelrick|2009-03-09 14:27:00
I've been offered by a few people (guildies mostly) to buy them a P2P account. Now, I have no problem putting down a few real world bucks for a good guild member who has no way of becoming P2P due to what ever restrictions they have. But, is this a moral thing to do? Everyone (Guilded or not) who asked if I could help them out said they would repay me in items or kamas.

So it boils down to; Is trading real world money (via buying a subscription for someone) for in-game kamas a bad or immoral thing? Is it no better than buying from a gold farmer?

I mean, did I work for the kamas? No. But someone did, and they weren't a bot. So doesn't that mean it's all a fair trade and fair gain for both members? I'm also not paying some annoying gold farmer, I'm paying the company that makes/supports our game.

I guess it all boils down to morality. What are you opinions on buying other people P2P subscriptions? Hell, is it even allowed or would I be breaking the rules?


Well I don't think its like a bad thing to do, and at first i thought it wouldn't be allowed, but then you made some good points like your paying the company of dofus so I think it SHOULD be allowed and its not a bad thing to do.
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Look, rules say it is illegal, at least in world of dofus.
BUT, rules are there to protect our account's safety. So, if you trust the person enough, you can do it, BUT if you lose your money blame yourself only.

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Mavelrick|2009-03-09 07:27:00
ISo it boils down to; Is trading real world money (via buying a subscription for someone) for in-game kamas a bad or immoral thing? Is it no better than buying from a gold farmer?

It is an illegal thing to do.

Since you paid for the account, you own the access time of the account. To allow anyone else to use an account you pay for is account sharing, which is a violation of the Terms of Service you agreed to by playing the game.

Since it is an illegal thing to do, whether or not it is moral is irrelevant.

Illegal activity remains illegal regardless of the morality behind it.
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KA-Dofus|2009-03-09 16:21:00
It is an illegal thing to do.

Since you paid for the account, you own the access time of the account. To allow anyone else to use an account you pay for is account sharing, which is a violation of the Terms of Service you agreed to by playing the game.

Since it is an illegal thing to do, whether or not it is moral is irrelevant.

Illegal activity remains illegal regardless of the morality behind it.


ah, that's the straight forward answer I was looking for tongue

thanks. Now I know. wink
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Rofl.

If there was no account share, most of people would be much much lower lvl.
Almost all higher levels share accounts... When you look on ladder of top 100 ppl on server, maybe 5 dont share account with anyway.
Some chars are played 24/7, every 5-6 hours new guy logs and continues playing.

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Sounds boring...

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Amicusmagnus|2009-03-09 17:09:00
Rofl.

If there was no account share, most of people would be much much lower lvl.
Almost all higher levels share accounts... When you look on ladder of top 100 ppl on server, maybe 5 dont share account with anyway.
Some chars are played 24/7, every 5-6 hours new guy logs and continues playing.


Well,I guess those player know each other in real life.
Well,if there was no account share,I don't see a reason why there would be no high levels.
First of all,when people need someone they mostly made alts.
Yes,I give only one friend of mine account acsess,I know him my whole life.
And I my oppinion is GIVE THE ACCOUNT ONLY TO FRIEND IN REAL LIFE!!(So you can beat hell out of him if he steal anything).

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At topic:

Well don't P2P people that you really don't like.
I guess P2P them if they are good,helpful...(Wtf am I talking)
You know what,do what you think it's right,so you could blame yourslef only,not someone else.(Also you could learn from bad expiriances)

-Matija

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Amicusmagnus|2009-03-09 10:09:00
Rofl.

If there was no account share, most of people would be much much lower lvl.
Almost all higher levels share accounts... When you look on ladder of top 100 ppl on server, maybe 5 dont share account with anyway.
Some chars are played 24/7, every 5-6 hours new guy logs and continues playing.

If it wasn't for crime many people would be poorer.

That doesn't make criminal activities legal.
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I'd like to point out one thing. It's not illegal to do. It's against the terms of service, (and you can be held accountable under those terms) but in doing so no one will be held accountable by any law.

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That is not a good idea. sad

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BigVtech|2009-03-09 12:47:00
I'd like to point out one thing. It's not illegal to do. It's against the terms of service, (and you can be held accountable under those terms) but in doing so no one will be held accountable by any law.

Excerpt from th ToS:

The company may change these Terms and Conditions at any time. The user will legally be bound to the latest version of these Terms and Conditions regarding the use of the Website, products and services.

That policemen may not be knocking on the door for some violations of the ToS doesn't mean that the ToS is not legally binding to the users of the service.
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If you go to the Ankama website, they show one method of payment as a "Gift Code" (the little gift-wrapped present icon), and state that they will "soon" be available at the Ankama Store. I can't imagine what the point would be of buying a gift code if not to give to somebody else...

On the other hand, they've been showing this option for some time now, without implementing it (as far as I can see), so maybe they are having second thoughts. But that would be the only really safe way of buying an account for someone else. Otherwise your credit card data is kind of hanging out there in public.

Stockler

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KA-Dofus|2009-03-09 16:21:00
It is an illegal thing to do.

Since you paid for the account, you own the access time of the account. To allow anyone else to use an account you pay for is account sharing, which is a violation of the Terms of Service you agreed to by playing the game.

Since it is an illegal thing to do, whether or not it is moral is irrelevant.

Illegal activity remains illegal regardless of the morality behind it.


That's exactly how it is. Good post =). Though, I would like to add that it's a nice thought. You still want your friends playing, I can understand that - but you arent their parents and you do not want to risk a ban on their behalf tongue.

/youbutsu
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KA-Dofus|2009-03-09 16:21:00
It is an illegal thing to do.

Since you paid for the account, you own the access time of the account. To allow anyone else to use an account you pay for is account sharing, which is a violation of the Terms of Service you agreed to by playing the game.

Since it is an illegal thing to do, whether or not it is moral is irrelevant.

Illegal activity remains illegal regardless of the morality behind it.


completely agree with KA. Morality has nothing to do with the decision as the legality says that this is illegal. So to question the morality of buying/selling P2P accounts after blatantly disregarding the immorality of ignoring your terms of agreement is a tad hippocritical laugh
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May I also add that these rules are in place for your safety, and to reduce hacking, scamming and/or fraud. It boils down to your choice as to whether you follow them or not, but you are bound by the rules you agreed to follow, and you must live with the repercussions and consequences of your choices, if any.

I don't recommend buying or selling any subscription time.

- XXVI

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KA-Dofus|2009-03-10 00:20:00
Excerpt from th ToS:

The company may change these Terms and Conditions at any time. The user will legally be bound to the latest version of these Terms and Conditions regarding the use of the Website, products and services.

That policemen may not be knocking on the door for some violations of the ToS doesn't mean that the ToS is not legally binding to the users of the service.


That doesn't make it illegal. It's legally binding as per the terms of service and terms of service only. No law is being broken therefore the action by definition of the word is not illegal. For it to be illegal you would have to actually be breaking a law and as I've said in this case no law is being broken.

Even if by some weird twist of fate a case like this would find its way into a courtroom the matter would be a civil and not a criminal case.
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BigVtech|2009-03-10 05:28:00
That doesn't make it illegal. It's legally binding as per the terms of service and terms of service only. No law is being broken therefore the action by definition of the word is not illegal. For it to be illegal you would have to actually be breaking a law and as I've said in this case no law is being broken.

Check this online dictionary, which clearly states that illegal means "contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc." While it probably won't be taken to court, it still remains a rule, which would be illegal to break.

This meaning of illegal applies to the Terms of Service, laid out by Ankama. smile

- XXVI
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DustPuppy|2009-03-10 04:17:00
If you go to the Ankama website, they show one method of payment as a "Gift Code" (the little gift-wrapped present icon), and state that they will "soon" be available at the Ankama Store. I can't imagine what the point would be of buying a gift code if not to give to somebody else...

On the other hand, they've been showing this option for some time now, without implementing it (as far as I can see), so maybe they are having second thoughts. But that would be the only really safe way of buying an account for someone else. Otherwise your credit card data is kind of hanging out there in public.

Stockler


What I think is that they dont want any trouble in-game. The ToS states not to account share, and from what i remember, it also says no marketing P2P codes, or accounts in-game. If you do it in reality, just to another friend, i suppose that should be fine, and Ankama probably view it as accessing the account from a different location. The whole IP address idea of getting to know who used what account, shouldn't get people banned (if it ever did). Ankama should care for anything and everything within their database and logs. Whether or not an account is being used by more than one player, shouldn't be a problem. Some times misunderstanding occurs, such as when Ankama think someone is sharing an account, as the IP address changes between two different one within 24 hours, but that shouldn't be something that violates the ToS. What happens if the player played the game at work, at a different computer, different internet service, with different IP address, goes home 3 hours later and play it at home, on a different computer, different internet service, with different IP address. Would that change, tell Ankama to ban these people with such cases?

So the main rule I think is not to market anything in-game that does not belong there, such as exchanging for real life things, money...whatever. User's of Bots violates this rule, as they pay real currency, to use the bots.
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BigVtech|2009-03-10 06:28:00
Check this online dictionary, which clearly states that illegal means "contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc." While it probably won't be taken to court, it still remains a rule, which would be illegal to break.

This meaning of illegal applies to the Terms of Service, laid out by Ankama. smile.gif

- XXVI


Mentor-XXVI is right about all that. So what it's all about is that, as BigVtech says For it to be illegal you would have to actually be breaking a law and as I've said in this case no law is being broken. Well, it is true that no society law, law set by the government, for a society, for a country, has been broke. When you live in a country, you have to abide by the laws of that country. When you go to school or have a job at work, there are always regulations to abide to, and when you play a game or get involved in some kind of entertainment, there is also rules you have to abide to. This world is full of rules, our world is full of rules, and whatever world you want yourself to be in, there is always rules, just like the world of Dofus, it got its rules.

If you dont like it, if you like to be a revolutionist, then gather a bunch of people with similar ideas or beliefs and march against Ankama and their makings of things. I bet both the people of Ankama, the fans and supporters that oppose your way of logic of how rules and law works, will outnumber people like you. If you dont like it, then live alone somewhere without internet, off deep in some vast forest, where no one knows or has ventured.
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