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By CloudyMind - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - November 06, 2010, 01:24:41
Reactions 63
Score : 2528

Hello there wonderful people and the other ones.

Just like to take a moment to clear up a few things. Firstly, ImpsVillage is not a closed community to anybody who hasn't been banned, we definately embrace new members if they are going to contribute to the community. The train of thought that having to sign up to contribute or read is somehow synonymous with being bad or aggressive is beyond asinine. It takes a few minutes, you have access to the forums. I think it's a good resource, the community is fun and that gay mod is totes hot.

For someone who claims to refute the need to sign up as being fair (a policy which these forums employ, by the way. FACISTS) people seem to have informed themselves very thoroughly on the goings on of thread which have been linked (which you cannot view unless you are registered and signed on, oddly)

Regardless, I think the official forums are a great resource. I think that the Imps forums are a great but different resource. You pick what you want to be a part of, there is no obligation, nobody is going to care either way what you choose to do. I will say that we have banned certain people for persistent negative attitudes and for constant negative and unfounded behaviour towards Ankama. Not because we had to or because we were asked. We did so because we try to act on what is best for the community. A goal which I think we have in common with Ankama. We have the liberty of being more open towards certain subjects because we are not the company that people express dissatisfaction with. On the case of the official forum topic: Yes is is a bit tasteless, but it harms nobody, we have deleted flames and moderated arguments before but the topic could as easily be called "The thread where we observe misinformation and post it".

It's not about the official forum or slandering it in particular. I've seen amazing conscientious work from the moderators and certain posters here, it's about the misinformation and arrogance that some people occasionally exhibit. Unfortunately some people who post here exhibit behaviour that people find funny. If people found that behaviour elsewhere, then there would be a topic about that. It's nature for people to try and derive humour from things, especially if it would otherwise manifest itself as frustration.

Thanks, Garnelaf.

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GreaterBreadCompany|2010-11-07 18:12:00
Regardless, I think the official forums are a great resource. I think that the Imps forums are a great but different resource. You pick what you want to be a part of, there is no obligation, nobody is going to care either way what you choose to do

There is an obligation from Imps to login to read. And then both forums have the obligation of being logged to write. Other than that, I totally agree.
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I meant that there is no obligation for people to join. Nobody is forcing anyone to join Imps, I'd hope. If there is feeling that we somehow covet the information, I'd disagree because I'd imagine anything could be found out from the Wikipedia? And we don't have any requirements to make an account so it is freely accessible, the reason for user-names I think is to monitor people's behaviours. Beyond that I'm afraid you'd have to have a tête-a-tete with the inquisitive minds of IPBoards.

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TheSkavenguy|2010-11-07 21:34:00
There is an obligation from Imps to login to read.

And that gets to the essential difference between the official boards and IV.

The former is the public forum that serves as a WWW extension of an online game. As such, Ankama, like most MMORPG publishers, provides it as a resource for its customers and, indirectly, to promote its presence to the gaming community at large (that's also why it's moderated more closely). Imps Village, on the other hand, is a community that grew up around an online game - and technically, around the old Amakna Square bulletin board founded during Rushu's beta era. Like a social network, it offers its members a semi-private space to hold conversations, free from anonymous lurkers and search engine indexing alike, but signing up is unrestricted, access to all its forums is unlimited (except, of course, for the special individual guild subforums, which anyone can make), and getting kicked out requires some effort.

Naturally, the two different approaches will appeal to different people. In consequence, two different communities have grown up, although there is obviously a certain amount of overlap. Ironically, the new version of the official forums has become more like IV, such as including profile pages and an off-topic subforum.

Whatever their merits and shortcomings, nobody is forced to read or post on either board in order to have fun playing Dofus.
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garnealf|2010-11-07 21:00:00
Nobody is forcing anyone to join Imps, I'd hope. If there is feeling that we somehow covet the information, I'd disagree because I'd imagine anything could be found out from the Wikipedia?

Many times I heard things such as "look at this thread on Imps. Oh you're not a member? Sucks to be you, I won't tell you then.". And while I haven't looked at the wiki in some time now, I can tell you that it used to lack a lot of info that was common knowledge with high-level players and I was told "look on Imps, it's there". Same lack of info on this forum.

This is a good part of where my "non-Imps-members are not worthy" comments stem from and why I refused to have my translation jobs posted there. As I said, that's a generality and there are exceptions. But I've seen this behaviour a lot from Imps regulars that I knew either in-game or on this forum. Of course, that's just one path most of the Imps users are taking, it's definately not an obligation to be like this : Imps in itself doesn't force any of this behaviour.
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People posting on behalf of "imps" and taking credit for things that people who are regulars on both forums post is gross

information wants to be free, amirite?

ps love how improvements to of = becoming like imps.

no forum had an off-topic section or profile pages before imps was created

TRUE FACT

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TheSkavenguy|2010-11-07 22:30:00
Many times I heard things such as "look at this thread on Imps. Oh you're not a member? Sucks to be you, I won't tell you then.".

That would be a valid concern if it didn't take two minutes for you to become a member so that you could read the said thread.
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I use it both, simple as that.

In general I prefer Imps for a more reliable source of information as there are more higher-level players compared to OF, but that doesn't mean I can post on OF if I just want opinions on something.

Sure there are some players on Imps that can be called elitists, but over the years I've posted on OF there have been many here too. In general they don't pop up too much, but even if they do...if you honestly can't handle dealing with somebody that has an attitude every now and then you shouldn't bother playing Dofus. Or any online game for that matter.

The OF thread on Imps is a moot point IMO as the hostility from people on OF towards Imps is no different. Imps gets mentioned on OF and this thread is a perfect example of what happens. Only real difference is on OF countless threads have been closed for that very reason, while on Imps the thread is allowed to stay open as its not against any of the rules.

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TheSkavenguy|2010-11-07 22:30:00
Many times I heard things such as "look at this thread on Imps. Oh you're not a member? Sucks to be you, I won't tell you then.". And while I haven't looked at the wiki in some time now, I can tell you that it used to lack a lot of info that was common knowledge with high-level players and I was told "look on Imps, it's there". Same lack of info on this forum.

This is a good part of where my "non-Imps-members are not worthy" comments stem from and why I refused to have my translation jobs posted there. As I said, that's a generality and there are exceptions. But I've seen this behaviour a lot from Imps regulars that I knew either in-game or on this forum. Of course, that's just one path most of the Imps users are taking, it's definately not an obligation to be like this : Imps in itself doesn't force any of this behaviour.


Could I maybe have some examples? I think I can understand the logic of "It's been posted on Imps so just look there". I don't think people hold it as coveted, it's as open to the Dofus community as anywhere and I think people just take it for granted that people will have an account there as they don't really have a reason not to. I don't think that Imps members and bad behaviours are cause and effect things, I just think the case is that a large majority of people who play Dofus are on Imps, and a disappointingly large percentage of people who play Dofus are asses. I don't really understand your attitude regarding the translations, but I've never actually heard about you so I'm not in a position to comment.

However anyone is welcome and will be held to the same rules as everybody else. I have been defending Imps to a degree not as a moderator on Imps but a member of it's community, because that's how I identify most strongly. I guess it holds a place in my heart smile.
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Elusial|2010-11-07 22:38:00
That would be a valid concern if it didn't take two minutes for you to become a member so that you could read the said thread.

"I don't want to sign up"
"yea, but if you'd just sign up, you wouldn't say that"
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garnealf|2010-11-07 12:33:00
On the case of the official forum topic: Yes is is a bit tasteless, but it harms nobody, we have deleted flames and moderated arguments before but the topic could as easily be called "The thread where we observe misinformation and post it".


So, this is how you, the member of the IV moderators team, define that thread. Despite all the insults towards users of the official forums in general you still insist on it being just "a bit tasteless".
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Nikto|2010-11-08 06:45:00
As a generality, yes. I do mean that and don't hide it. I dislike that about Imps.
@kiba when he exclaimed that people here were claiming IV members were snobs.

Hypocrisy much?
"All members of that one place are assholes, i dont personally know them but yeah there total douches."
Rather then just assume over 24,000 are all snobs, you should take the time and just give people a chance. Everyones different, there are indeed probably some snobby people there but that can be said for every single community on the internet including the OF.
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When you join a community, you shouldn't make a flash judgement on the door. You should try the community out, then if it isn't your thing then move on. If you join under the mindset that "all IVers are douches", then your attitude will reflect that, and people's opinions of you will show that.

And also, in regards to the "people can just flame me there" mindset, we don't just allow random flaming. If people report it or don't rise to it, then we take care of it.

Fosjam out.

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Well as a very active member of the IV community and a lurker of the "official forums" and one of those people who contributes to wiki I'd like to let everyone know that what Garne was saying about IV welcoming anyone into the community is very true. The only reason people get "picked on" at IV is a total lack of use of the search function. The long term members don't appreciate thousands of "which stroken alt is best for me pl0x" or "What build is best" topics when these questions have been thoroughly answered many many times. I do agree JoL is a great place to pick up new information quickly (important things are usually on imps within the hour of posting) but since I personally don't know french it becomes a hassle to get to much information there. Both the Official Forums and IV have there percs. Personally I chose to be an active member of Imps because of the "overall" higher maturity level and player knowledge.

~Forni

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Elusial|2010-11-07 15:08:00
It's not about the official forum or slandering it in particular. I've seen amazing conscientious work from the moderators and certain posters here, it's about the misinformation and arrogance that some people occasionally exhibit. Unfortunately some people who post here exhibit behaviour that people find funny. If people found that behaviour elsewhere, then there would be a topic about that. It's nature for people to try and derive humour from things, especially if it would otherwise manifest itself as frustration.

I have to agree.

Reason why its almost useless to post similar info topics on the official forums is due to constant thread spamming of lowbies posting "omgz plz free reset" "cra so OP plz nerf" that all the good info topics just get lost in the spam of uselessness. Most of the forum users here are under level 100, even under 50, theres only a bunch of end gamers like myself here, who try to correct all the misinformation that is being spread.

IV has a higher average level in their userbase compared to the OF and that can be seen in the posts. 199 lvls and 50 lvls have different things that interest them. Im not saying that there isnt a lot of good stuff here too, but on many occasions IV is more informative due to more experienced players being able to share their views. If you want a serious plan on how to gear up your char and what spells to level, higher chances are that it will be replied faster to on IV and that youll get a better reply (or at least more views of the issue). Here there are guys like myself, flamin and chicken (to name a few) who most likely can answer any question concerning gearing and what spells to level, but we have lives too and thus replies might not come as fast or there might not be as many alternatives to choose from as opposed to IV.

Of course when you put 1000 200/199 lvls into one forum you will have a lot of show-offing and possibly a small "elitist" feel to the forums, but thats why theres the gallery section and seriously you dont need to visit it if you dont want to, nor post there. Ive seen quite a few less well geared lower levels post there and receive positive comments on their gear and on what to get next. Ofc you have the occasional trolls who just post negative things about anyone and diss your gear even when their own is much worse laugh.

Trolls live on all forums.
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eotkodekff|2010-11-08 10:11:00
True you need to speak french, but thats not a problem for me. JoL has a more of an explore feel to it when it comes to in game content. They dont want to spoil stuff too early, but instead let people figure it out themselves. Once some time has passed you will find all the info on the new content there. Besides most if not all of the new frigost items were first posted at JoL.


To add on to how awesome JoL is and how intune the devs are with them, if i remember correctly much of the information available on the dofus community website was removed because many of the members of the JoL community found it to be to informative and wanted less spoilers (thus why things like drop% of dofus are no longer available).
JoL is just a really great community, if you know french you should join it as well tongue
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The thread making fun of the Official Forums says a lot about Imps. They are free to make fun of us, while the rules of offical forums protect them from having their mistakes and foibles pointed out or mocked by people that they may not ever have the chance to respond to.

Hypocritcal much? Imps can feel safe and secure slagging off on our members and our forum without fear of retribution, but they can't stand even a hint of the same treatment from people who don't like the imps forum.

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Imps Village is not a place that we go to judge, insult, harass, or otherwise be derogatory of the official forums or its users.

If it were, Dofus staff wouldn't be registered there.

Basically; at the moment it feels that the users here are saying "IV is a terrible place full of horrible people, I refuse to go there", and the IV users are saying "Registration is free and you can give it a try, if it's not your thing then you don't have to stay".

QUOTE
Hypocritcal much? Imps can feel safe and secure slagging off on our members and our forum without fear of retribution, but they can't stand even a hint of the same treatment from people who don't like the imps forum.


You are the one that is slagging off the IV members, without even knowing for sure if we're even slagging anybody off at all. And we're not, because that's not what we're there for. But we have a right to open discussion, and I'm sure you have done exactly the same thing to other people. Ever walked down the street, seen someone pick their nose and eat it, and then been grossed out or laughed at them later?

IV is a community within itself. It is a Dofus forum, yes, but it's also a Forum Community where people actively participate in things that have nothing to do with Dofus at all. The humour is great, and Izmar, Kaoly and Harvest Pale all have accounts there, along with a few Dofus forum moderators too.

It's not a horrible place, and that's been proven again and again by our respectful attitudes here, even having IV moderators come in and tell you guys that you are more than welcome to come and give it a try.

Yes - There is one, single thread about the Official Forums. But there are thousands upon thousands of other threads too, in such a huge variety.

The TL;DR version - Give it a try. Nothing is stopping you and there's no reason to actively hate a community that you can't even see.
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That thread actually helps stop stupid people from posting stupid things. If you think to yourself that what your about to say may get you quoted there, you might think twice about it. Also, what prevents the OF's from posting a topic about stupid things on imps village (not likely to happen but still) in the off topic section?

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LittleBigDavid|2010-11-08 11:54:00
insults, provocation or bad mouthing of other players are all subject to sanctions.
would probably extend to that. I also doubt there are many people on the OF who think it's that worthwhile.
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