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Suggestions to Increase Frigost Dungeon Percentages.

By Benja-might - SUBSCRIBER - February 09, 2012, 19:30:02

I was asked this very question in response to a comment I put on the General Discussion chat, so I thought I would put my ideas here in the Suggestion Forum, as well as create something for others to give their ideas too. There are quite a few people that are looking forward to the release of FG3, and many others who would love to just "See" FG2 areas... so what suggestions do you have to help inspire the determination it takes to conquor FG1 dungeons?

Suggestions:

1) Perhaps a reward for the first time your character completes each Frigost dungeon.

2A) A Frigost pet that only eats the souls of Frigost Bosses... the higher level the dungeon, the more it contributes in value! This would be awesome... because it would encourage people to try and get to bigger bosses, because it cuts down on the leveling time for their pet. Maybe put a limit of 1 soul of each boss per 24 hour period. So a person could fight just 1 Royal Masto to count towards his pet, and wait 24 hours... OR, they can then try the Pinguin, Buck, and Obidemon... because then they have a CHANCE to add more to the soul while they're waiting to fight Masto again?

2cool Another pet option is maybe it can't eat the soul of the same Frigost Boss 2 times in a row (unless 24 hours pass). So after Masto, if they make it to Pinguin or Buck and win, then it erases the timer for Masto... so they could zaap back & fight Masto again, and then move on to Obidemon if they wanted?

3) Maybe a counter of some kind can be added to Quest section of your character... every time you complete a Frigost dungeon with a person you've never completed it with prior, it adds up. At every certain count level, the person receives a account locked reward. This would even encourage Multi-clienters to leave 1 or 2 characters out, to let a couple new people in, because it works them towards rewards. There would have to be some rules put in place of course, but I think this is a GREAT idea!

I'll Keep Brainstorming, biggrin
Benjamight

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Benja-might|2012-02-09 19:30:02
There are quite a few people that are looking forward to the release of FG3


Sadly FG3 will not becoming out soon. Izmar has said so in this post
Click here
To quote this is what she said:
In summationNo, Frigost 3 will not be released any time soon, and we are not currently working on the development of the expansion. We need to add content that caters to all levels before we do anything else, and improve the accessibility of existing content. It goes without saying that Frigost 3’s release date remains dependent on the effectiveness of these improvements!Add Quote Here
 
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True, but it doesn't mean people aren't still looking forward to it. biggrin 

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Benja-might|2012-02-09 19:30:02
I was asked this very question in response to a comment I put on the General Discussion chat, so I thought I would put my ideas here in the Suggestion Forum, as well as create something for others to give their ideas too. There are quite a few people that are looking forward to the release of FG3, and many others who would love to just "See" FG2 areas... so what suggestions do you have to help inspire the determination it takes to conquor FG1 dungeons?

Suggestions:

1) Perhaps a reward for the first time your character completes each Frigost dungeon.
each dungeon has an associated quest that gives a nice chunk of xp on completion. oh, it also gives access to a new area.
2A) A Frigost pet that only eats the souls of Frigost Bosses... the higher level the dungeon, the more it contributes in value! This would be awesome... because it would encourage people to try and get to bigger bosses, because it cuts down on the leveling time for their pet. Maybe put a limit of 1 soul of each boss per 24 hour period. So a person could fight just 1 Royal Masto to count towards his pet, and wait 24 hours... OR, they can then try the Pinguin, Buck, and Obidemon... because then they have a CHANCE to add more to the soul while they're waiting to fight Masto again?
bulbisou, kanigloopy, brockheart, and teddybearbarian.
2cool Another pet option is maybe it can't eat the soul of the same Frigost Boss 2 times in a row (unless 24 hours pass). So after Masto, if they make it to Pinguin or Buck and win, then it erases the timer for Masto... so they could zaap back & fight Masto again, and then move on to Obidemon if they wanted?
the above 4 +elemental pets.
3) Maybe a counter of some kind can be added to Quest section of your character... every time you complete a Frigost dungeon with a person you've never completed it with prior, it adds up. At every certain count level, the person receives a account locked reward. This would even encourage Multi-clienters to leave 1 or 2 characters out, to let a couple new people in, because it works them towards rewards. There would have to be some rules put in place of course, but I think this is a GREAT idea!
this just encourages multi-accounting even more.
I'll Keep Brainstorming, biggrin
Benjamight
what needs to be done is to increase the ability of the playerbase to run the dungeons WITHOUT having to rely on multi-accounters to ferry them through.
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talith|2012-02-09 21:44:34
Benja-might|2012-02-09 19:30:02


what needs to be done is to increase the ability of the playerbase to run the dungeons WITHOUT having to rely on multi-accounters to ferry them through.
Couldn't agree more.
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talith|2012-02-09 21:44:34
Benja-might|2012-02-09 19:30:02
I was asked this very question in response to a comment I put on the General Discussion chat, so I thought I would put my ideas here in the Suggestion Forum, as well as create something for others to give their ideas too. There are quite a few people that are looking forward to the release of FG3, and many others who would love to just "See" FG2 areas... so what suggestions do you have to help inspire the determination it takes to conquor FG1 dungeons?

Suggestions:

1) Perhaps a reward for the first time your character completes each Frigost dungeon.
each dungeon has an associated quest that gives a nice chunk of xp on completion. oh, it also gives access to a new area.
2A) A Frigost pet that only eats the souls of Frigost Bosses... the higher level the dungeon, the more it contributes in value! This would be awesome... because it would encourage people to try and get to bigger bosses, because it cuts down on the leveling time for their pet. Maybe put a limit of 1 soul of each boss per 24 hour period. So a person could fight just 1 Royal Masto to count towards his pet, and wait 24 hours... OR, they can then try the Pinguin, Buck, and Obidemon... because then they have a CHANCE to add more to the soul while they're waiting to fight Masto again?
bulbisou, kanigloopy, brockheart, and teddybearbarian.
2cool Another pet option is maybe it can't eat the soul of the same Frigost Boss 2 times in a row (unless 24 hours pass). So after Masto, if they make it to Pinguin or Buck and win, then it erases the timer for Masto... so they could zaap back & fight Masto again, and then move on to Obidemon if they wanted?
the above 4 +elemental pets.
3) Maybe a counter of some kind can be added to Quest section of your character... every time you complete a Frigost dungeon with a person you've never completed it with prior, it adds up. At every certain count level, the person receives a account locked reward. This would even encourage Multi-clienters to leave 1 or 2 characters out, to let a couple new people in, because it works them towards rewards. There would have to be some rules put in place of course, but I think this is a GREAT idea!
this just encourages multi-accounting even more.
I'll Keep Brainstorming, biggrin
Benjamight
what needs to be done is to increase the ability of the playerbase to run the dungeons WITHOUT having to rely on multi-accounters to ferry them through.
Above Brainstorming ideas = major fail. sad sorry.
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I feel this thread is a little misinformed. Your suggestions, although fairly practical, rest in the knowledge that motivation is the key factor. It should be reiterated, as Izmar so verbosely described, that the reason for the small percentage of players completing the FG2 dungeons is difficulty.

Suggestions to improve activity in FG2 dungeons should therefore address reducing the difficulty of the dungeons (either partially or completely), not rewarding the few who can run them even more bonuses for doing so.

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Tenasuu,

I must agree with you on that one. I've suggested we do the following to handle this issue. cool

1) Why not put limits to the boss immunity or increase un-immunity for more than one turn. Its very hard to attempt even to remove the immunity for the boss

2) Why limit removal of boss immunity to certain characters. Very hard on low population servers to recruit certain characters for specific dungs. i.e. unless you multi-client.

3) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss strength as some hit the same or even harder than the boss in dungeon.

4) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss HP.

Just some ideas. Do you have any ideas? biggrin

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Tenasuu|2012-02-09 22:18:42
I feel this thread is a little misinformed. Your suggestions, although fairly practical, rest in the knowledge that motivation is the key factor. It should be reiterated, as Izmar so verbosely described, that the reason for the small percentage of players completing the FG2 dungeons is difficulty.

Suggestions to improve activity in FG2 dungeons should therefore address reducing the difficulty of the dungeons (either partially or completely), not rewarding the few who can run them even more bonuses for doing so.
I see your point of view, and it makes sense. I guess part of me believes that people could overcome these dungeons, if they were willing to give them a few tries (of course I'm only referring to the first 4 so far... haven't gone further yet). But at the same time, I remember the first time I tried to beat Skeunk a few years back. A group of 4 of us, each running 2 accounts, spent forever getting aggro'd all the way to the dungeon entrance, working through the entrance, fighting the 4 corners inside the dungeon (being aggro'd more), until FINALLY reaching Skeunk... only to end in a 65 minute boss room failure. We were SO furious, we could hardly stand it. We all logged off for the day. The following weekend we were fired up and decided to try it again. We went all the way through, and died again after a long fight, and was even less successful in the final room. 1 month later, I talked them into trying it again... telling them we learned a lot and I think we can do it (I wanted to the Dofus...lol). Long story short... failure.

We literally didn't try again for well over a year. Just the thought of that dungeon, would make me mad. So much work, with almost no reward. Honestly, now thinking about that time, I can totally understand what you mean by if it's too difficult, people won't even bother after a few failures. Even if they changed Skeunk to give 3 Dofus's per person back then, I still wouldn't have tried again, because the difficulty made me so furious... if I couldn't win trying for 1 Dofus, how is making it 3 Dofus's going to help me win?

I have seen the light of understand. biggrin
Benjamight
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xxsem|2012-02-10 02:19:15
Tenasuu,

I must agree with you on that one. I've suggested we do the following to handle this issue. cool

1) Why not put limits to the boss immunity or increase un-immunity for more than one turn. Its very hard to attempt even to remove the immunity for the boss

2) Why limit removal of boss immunity to certain characters. Very hard on low population servers to recruit certain characters for specific dungs. i.e. unless you multi-client.

3) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss strength as some hit the same or even harder than the boss in dungeon.

4) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss HP.

Just some ideas. Do you have any ideas? biggrin
1. I think this would be a nice start. The boss strategies are one of the main things that put players off the FG2 dungeons. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a complete overhaul of vulnerability in FG2 dungeons in the near future.
2. Again, I completely agree. Although, it's important to remember that these are technically "epic" dungeons, requiring 8-man teams. It would therefore be very difficult not to have a character which can cause immunity, regardless of the strategy involved.
3 and 4. Reducing the HP and/or damage of the monsters would be exactly what i'd recommend. Obviously, it would be a system of trial and error: Reduce a little, observe p(completing FG2 dungeons), and keep reducing until there's a satisfactory increase. That said, there's a very delicate balance. It shouldn't be too easy for the sake of increasing participation, yet it shouldn't be too difficult as to have no effect. I think a reduction in HP and damage of 10% would probably be enough (even if it's only in the latter dungeons).

As a further suggestion, which I believe has been suggested elsewhere, is to have different levels of difficulty for each dungeon, depending on the number of players in a group. These would also come with drop rate and experience reductions, respectively. For example:
  • Easy - 2 players - HP/damage and experience/drop rate reduction of 80%;
  • Medium - 4 players - HP/damage and experience/drop rate reduction of 60%;
  • Hard - 6 players - HP/damage and experience/drop rate reduction of 40%;
  • Epic - 8 players - HP/damage and experience/drop rate reduction of 20%.
Naturally, this idea is very raw, and would require a lot of tweaking. In turn, I suspect it would also be very difficult to implement.
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As a quick fix perhaps ankama could keep the level of difficulty the same for FG2 dungeons, but lower the damage of the more agressive monsters. Top end hp loss is stopping the level brackets eg:160-170 characters from compleating such dungeons as obsidamon, let alone tengu ect. I would sugest...

1. lower the monsters hp
2. Lower the epic monsters damage by about 25%

Then most levels that should be able to do FG2 dungeons to there level would still have a chalenge, but the dungeon would be doable for more casual players. Some of the part two dungeons have monsters with the same HP as my 200 sac, in fact most do. Pluss there are multiples of these monsters per mob pluss the boss. This scares most casual players and teams off such dungeons.

Just a few thoughts on difficulty of part two and why it hasn't the stats it should have after the time passed from release.

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I like that everyone is brainstorming for FG2 dungeons. im a level 192 xel on Rosal (a decently populated server) and ive only made it past Fuji. I was taken through by my friend and his 200 team and id say it was pretty difficult. When the fuji is hitting 900 damage a turn on 2 players scared me away from even trying it again with another group of other people.

I saw the % of level 170+ characters who have completed the frigost dungeons and i must say its rather sad.
Personally i dont even try to recruit for anything harder than Pingwin because i know not many people even want to try the harder ones. So if you ask me i think Ankama needs to work on refining the difficulty of its dungeons. And i think that until that happens they wont see much progress in FG2 dungeons.

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brandon-suter|2012-05-15 00:27:50
I like that everyone is brainstorming for FG2 dungeons. im a level 192 xel on Rosal (a decently populated server) and ive only made it past Fuji. I was taken through by my friend and his 200 team and id say it was pretty difficult. When the fuji is hitting 900 damage a turn on 2 players scared me away from even trying it again with another group of other people.

I saw the % of level 170+ characters who have completed the frigost dungeons and i must say its rather sad.
Personally i dont even try to recruit for anything harder than Pingwin because i know not many people even want to try the harder ones. So if you ask me i think Ankama needs to work on refining the difficulty of its dungeons. And i think that until that happens they wont see much progress in FG2 dungeons.
Frigost 2 was created for 190+ last time I checked, and in the state they are currently in, a team of all 190 people can easily do any of them.
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I dont think any of them are really as daunting as theyre being made out to be. Granted, I havent given CB a shot yet but I assume were talking more in the region of Tengu-Kolosso. My panda JUST broke out of the 14x's and hes been with me helping to clear Korri and Kolosso without much of a struggle. If I just leave him in the open to get smacked by iceys or if hes too far away from a wounded fungore, erosion will drop his max vit to laughable amounts but you can avoid that with strategy. if you have a solid grasp on monster/fight mechanics, picked a team reasonably ( nothing like 3 iops or 4 cras or too much of any 1 class) and play smartly, theres no reason a level appropriate group of characters shouldnt be able to smoothly beat the ep 2 dungeons.

Being able to beat the highest tier dungeons in the game without much in the way of strategy beyond "im going to hit this monster with my weapon and the eni will heal me if I get hurt" feels hollow and disappointing

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Greeeeeen|2012-05-15 05:22:39
I dont think any of them are really as daunting as theyre being made out to be.
is this observation being made on the difficulty of the dungeons NOW or before ankama made the dungeons vastly easier? because it was unbelievably ****ing hard to beat pingwin before they changed it. and this was using a team of 2 enis, an iop, feca, and a sacrier sitting pretty on 50% water resistance. the 3 others we brought to the dungeon were veritable idiots and served as limited durability meat shields. when we finally beat the dungeon? it was my friend's eni and my own feca left alive beating on the royal. the other 3 people died pretty fast because they didnt listen.
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talith|2012-05-15 05:59:12
Greeeeeen|2012-05-15 05:22:39
I dont think any of them are really as daunting as theyre being made out to be.
is this observation being made on the difficulty of the dungeons NOW or before ankama made the dungeons vastly easier? because it was unbelievably ****ing hard to beat pingwin before they changed it. and this was using a team of 2 enis, an iop, feca, and a sacrier sitting pretty on 50% water resistance. the 3 others we brought to the dungeon were veritable idiots and served as limited durability meat shields. when we finally beat the dungeon? it was my friend's eni and my own feca left alive beating on the royal. the other 3 people died pretty fast because they didnt listen.
They were a lot harder before the nerf but nerfing them didnt allow me to beat any dungs I hadnt beat many times before, it made the runs a lot faster though ill give you that.

Original Hesp was quite the doozy as well.
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originally the dungeons like pingwin were virtually impossible for their respective level "bracket" (which i'm assuming is the 140s-150s looking at the gear crafted from those drops) because a single mistake can cost you the entire fight instantly, or come very close. with how hard it was to even beat pingwin, i shudder at the thought of trying to beat buck with a PUG, no matter if ankama changed the dungeons or not. my opinion of the average intelligence of other players on a general level is not very charitable, and i've never been given a reason to think otherwise yet. all in all it just adds to the impossibility of us seeing frigost 3 come out at all in the next 1-2 years, if even that soon.

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xxsem|2012-02-10 02:19:15
Tenasuu,

I must agree with you on that one. I've suggested we do the following to handle this issue. cool

1) Why not put limits to the boss immunity or increase un-immunity for more than one turn. Its very hard to attempt even to remove the immunity for the boss

2) Why limit removal of boss immunity to certain characters. Very hard on low population servers to recruit certain characters for specific dungs. i.e. unless you multi-client.

3) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss strength as some hit the same or even harder than the boss in dungeon.

4) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss HP.

Just some ideas. Do you have any ideas? biggrin

The Pingwin boss CAN be made vulnerable for more than one turn if you heal a character adjacent to him more than once, I usually do 6x heals with my eni on my sacrier whilst he is stood next to him early on. This makes him vulnerable for 6 turns.

PS. I do not have 8 accounts, I have 3, but I'm sure I could get together a team whilst just using 1 character. Just needs a little patience, or planning ahead.

- John
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JohnBroadley1|2012-05-15 13:50:10
xxsem|2012-02-10 02:19:15
Tenasuu,

I must agree with you on that one. I've suggested we do the following to handle this issue. cool

1) Why not put limits to the boss immunity or increase un-immunity for more than one turn. Its very hard to attempt even to remove the immunity for the boss

2) Why limit removal of boss immunity to certain characters. Very hard on low population servers to recruit certain characters for specific dungs. i.e. unless you multi-client.

3) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss strength as some hit the same or even harder than the boss in dungeon.

4) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss HP.

Just some ideas. Do you have any ideas? biggrin

The Pingwin boss CAN be made vulnerable for more than one turn if you heal a character adjacent to him more than once, I usually do 6x heals with my eni on my sacrier whilst he is stood next to him early on. This makes him vulnerable for 6 turns.

PS. I do not have 8 accounts, I have 3, but I'm sure I could get together a team whilst just using 1 character. Just needs a little patience, or planning ahead.

- John
All these problems could be avoided by just making two levels of difficulty on the bosses.

And getting 7 randoms for anything past Buck is aggravating to say the least. Usually the most people I will take thru Frigost content at once is 4, because if they die I can still beat all the Frigost bosses easily with 4 accounts.
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JohnBroadley1|2012-05-15 13:50:10
xxsem|2012-02-10 02:19:15
Tenasuu,

I must agree with you on that one. I've suggested we do the following to handle this issue. cool

1) Why not put limits to the boss immunity or increase un-immunity for more than one turn. Its very hard to attempt even to remove the immunity for the boss

2) Why limit removal of boss immunity to certain characters. Very hard on low population servers to recruit certain characters for specific dungs. i.e. unless you multi-client.

3) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss strength as some hit the same or even harder than the boss in dungeon.

4) Maybe decrease the monsters with the boss HP.

Just some ideas. Do you have any ideas? biggrin

The Pingwin boss CAN be made vulnerable for more than one turn if you heal a character adjacent to him more than once, I usually do 6x heals with my eni on my sacrier whilst he is stood next to him early on. This makes him vulnerable for 6 turns.

PS. I do not have 8 accounts, I have 3, but I'm sure I could get together a team whilst just using 1 character. Just needs a little patience, or planning ahead.

- John
i do believe the information you've provided was only made relevant to the topic AFTER that post was made. IE the patch changing pingwin's vuln mechanic was not introduced until AFTER this thread was made. so for the most part, a couple complaints in this thread are answered already and continuing to answer the fixed complaints just makes clutter tongue 
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