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Ankama Trackers

Capping and leeching

By spaderocksspade - SUBSCRIBER - November 30, 2013, 08:36:34
Reactions 29
Score : 207
Electricotter|2013-12-09 05:43:08
Kyounen|2013-12-09 05:27:29
I don't see the point in leeching. You leech to 150-180, and then "start playing" knowing nothing about the world nor the gameplay.

High levels are just bigger numbers and monsters that hit very high. Why would I want that in the first place? I enjoy fighting Fungi Masters, who hit 30 (if I'm not pressed by the wall), and gaining awesome XP from them. I'm slowly pacing, but enjoying the game. I never were and never will be leeched. No matter how many characters I make.

Just my two cents.
I really appreciate this mentality!
Why, thank you, kind sir!
However one thing to note in terms of high levels just being bigger numbers....

Low level content is mostly very straightforward.

Battles become more an excersize in tactics ans strategy as you become higher level, such as Frig content where you need to utilize pushback to make the boss be able to take damage.
Otomai island has similar content such as summons dictating what element the boss becomes weak to.

Lower level content has some of this, but very little.
I agree with you, but I just tend to compare it to real life school. Grade 1 is the easiest, and Grade 12 is the hardest. You guys are Grade 12, right now I'm Grade 4 and learning some of the basic algebra. You're well into square roots and exponentials. So once I reach epic levels I will also learn square roots and I will pwn.
Also, the multiaccounting aspect of this thread is really key here.
You need more players to do this more complex content, but not all players can handle the more complex content in your way (that is with the tactics available to your class(es)).
As such you just start a new account and skip everything to get them where you need them to be. Back when there were no Ogrines, people would work together, join dungeons, go XP hunts. I don't see why is that not an option anymore.

(By the way I LOVE Fungimasters!)WELL WHO WOULDN'T. Just look at that sword GO!
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Score : 320

We need more people like you Kyounen.

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Score : 390

I just don't agree with the stars. I don't feel that stars make undesirable mobs better. If people go for mobs without stars they would most likely need the resources. I know on Rushu I'll go in clear all the mobs with stars then go do a dungeon. It isn't because I want the drops, I tend to want the experience. The logic is fine, but I don't agree that it works so well. I find it makes me not want to kill mobs without stars as I can find 10-15 mobs with stars kill them then get way more experience from a dungeon. Maybe my issue is that 200% is just too big of a bonus on Brockhards, or Petrified forest mobs. Maybe it should scale based on Region/total EXP so they cap about the same. I don't have the answer on how to fix it, but I still believe it is a problem. I feel that only finding stars then "going to do a dungeon" takes away from my overall experience. (I work toward efficiency and not necessarily fun, though both are fun the mobs are more so)

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Score : 1774

I don't think that the argument 'If the monster gave more experience if there was a level gap between you and them you wouldn't feel inclined to invite friends' really works. I mean, sure, there are some classes that could potentially abuse the system, since solo combat is easier for them, but because of that forcing people to invite friends to help them? This isn't how hunting works, at least not from my experience. If I want to hunt, I invite people I want to hunt with and THEN we seek out mobs that more or less match our level. If we see something that is 300 levels above us, we either decide to fight with it anyway, because we figure it'll still be quicker than to look for another mob or decide that it's just not worth our time and seek out another monster group, which is less bothersome. I've never seen someone saying in this scenario 'Ops, let's better invite our friends to have a beneficial effort/reward ratio!'. While I get that the intention here is to leave this monster for a bigger group to stumble upon some time in the future, I find it not good enough reason for the system; it's just too frustrating.

So this is what I'd suggest to change this system to the benefit of players:

1. Divide every area into 3 smaller areas, in one there would be groups of 1-2 monsters, the other groups of 3-5 monsters and the last 6-8 monsters
This would searching for monsters far less frustrating and would greatly reduce the temptation to kill monsters of much higher level than the party. And if players would still fight monsters on territory outside their level range, well, they know what they're doing, the responsibility is all theirs. The experience capping stays.
2. Intorduce an item (let's say a horn) aquired like the bunch of keys which when used starts a fight with a group of monsters in the area of closest level to your party
Pros:
- Quick and easy
- Balanced fights
- Some risk included (it could happen that the closest monster in this area is 500 levels above you, you could get 0 star mob, or group full of the most annoying monsters)
- Multimen get to rest
Cons:
- Some maps would be horribly abused by map-dependent characters
- You don't get to see the area
- No point in monsters being aggressive (in most cases)
- Lazy people rejoice
- Pretty lame idea overall
3. Change the capping, so that if you kill a group of monsters of higher level than you, you can get up to 100% bonus experience for it
Let's be honest, characters with strong soloing power are already privileged when it comes to most things; they can run most dungeons solo, do most achievements solo, start a leeching group if they need more exp from monsters etc. and introducing that one change would surely make it even more convininet for them. But I believe that there are some builds that are not acknowledged for their soloing power that could benefit from this system even more, because in practice it would make it easier to concentrate on hunting on a particular type of maps instead of wasting time running around looking for a small group, while trying to save time on not fighting large ones. I might be wrong here, but I think that for every class there is a map on which any particular kind of opponent could be tackled by any class. For example, some maps in dreggon sanctuary are a dream come true for characters with some map manipulation or summons, some maps at Oto island are incredible for aoe characters etc. I would like to see people taking risks instead of doing their best to kill monsters as easily and quickly as possible and that 100% xp bonus could help with that, without throwing the game off balance too much.

Also, please give us the option of checking out the map without challanging someone or attacking a weak monster. This is absurd.

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Score : 9389
Electricotter|2013-12-09 05:17:21
Scientiavore|2013-12-06 03:51:24
Yea I agree with Blazeron, there's really no reason for wisdom to exist. It doesn't add anything interesting to the gameplay at all, and in fact makes for some pretty obvious choices. I mean why wouldn't someone spend points on a stat that makes a character level so much faster, when you can always reset after?

This is true in terms of leveling, however it does not apply, meaning Wisdom makes perfect sense, when it comes to debilitation.


I see a lot of people using that as a pretense against changing wisdom, saying "wis is not just a leech stat! I use it to take away MP, see!" Basically, if that's as good as they claim, why does wis even have to give xp at all? Maybe wis could do with another job or two, but for me it's clear that wisdom boosting xp has to go. It has been in this game for far too long and it wasn't any good.

The original Dofus was a different game...in some ways almost entirely.

Evolution is taking place in a rather Darwinian way, each generation offering subtle or sometimes drastic changes culminating into a more complete and effective organism.

Truth be told this is the only way it can be done if only in terms of workload alone, an easy transition for the playerbase is also integral.

Originally many classes had no innate access to AP/MP removal making the Wis stat meaningful to only some classes.

(Whereas stat bonuses like Str or Agi would always offer a meaningful bonus such as pods or Dodge/Lock/Crits, if only in meager amounts or passive in nature.)


The only people that would get hurt by wisdom not boosting xp anymore are the prime offenders who have been abusing the stat to leech while being fully aware of what an abuse it is. Even just giving them a free orb to reset their shameful base wis seems almost too generous already.

I feel that XP gain was intended more as a sweetener than the intended primary benefit.

However, players will be players and they will maximize gains as well as they are able.

This is a blameless statement.


I don't know. As far as i remember, xp bonus was very clearly the main purpose of wisdom. You said yourself that AP/MP removing spells were far less common back then.

We can often look at these newer systems and see the incompatibilities with older ones, but I feel this is more a swan song for these older systems and mechanics than an oversight or failing in development.

In very rare situations these may clash, however it is not to the point where the game is made unplayable, but more so less than optimal.


I disagree. This game's history is full of bad decisions that have to be revamped later, often multiple times. To me it seems like the developers just randomly get an idea and then think "this is how it is supposed be!" without thinking about how this would work out, and then one month later they realize what an absolute disaster it turned out to be, then say "hmmm... i got a different idea! Now THIS is how it is supposed to be!". Some examples:

  • The PvP system went from "PvP for fun" to a complete focus on 1 vs. 1 with running around the world map to a complete focus on 3 vs. 3. Further, it went from alignment based PvP to a system where i don't even know what alignments are still for
  • Shields: First such a major part of PvP, then nerfed big time, now completely useless as the game just ignores the fact that you're wearing one. Why did they even exist in the first place? Because Ankama just randomly thought the game needed shields and didn't think about how it would work out.
  • The entire game went from a PvM game into one where the PvP welfare is increasingly creeping into every aspect of character development
  • Monsters/areas went from a random scramble of monsters of different levels to something in which an area has a clearly assigned level. Not that i'm complaining about this change, but it really makes you wonder how it ever was a good idea to stick level 2 moskitos into mobs containing level 50+ monsters in the first place
  • Boss monsters went from just fighting a very strong monster to performing weird stuff to make an otherwise easy boss vulnerable while avoiding half a dozen of things that will insta-kill your characters
  • Boss monsters went from being a rare encounter to also being available in a dungeon, to only be available in a dungeon
  • Equipment went from something that was primarily dropped to something that could also be crafted to something that can only be crafted and not obtained otherwise
  • Dungeons went from having 8 people go into a huge 10 room snoozefest full of useless mobs that will make you start over when you die to being able to do reasonable dungeons with 4 characters to being presumably able to do it with 2 characters + 2 multimen. Again, i'm not complaining about the new dungeon system, but it makes you wonder who thought that it would ever be a good idea to have dungeons like they used to be
  • Critical failures went from ending your turn instantly to only end your turn on weapons to finally not even existing anymore

Not to mention how lots of monsters had to be drastically buffed and reworked because Ankama didn't think their stats through and didn't do the necessary calculations to figure out that a properly made level 60 character would completely curbstomp all the content at his level. On top of that, there were brilliant ideas put in the game such as "hey, let's give all low level characters 5 hp per level and wait years until we adjust any monsters that will fight players whose hp is multiplied by 5 from one update to another! Nothing could possibly go wrong with that, right?"

Weapons are another good example. Basically, Ankama said "We don't like how everyone uses weapons! They're too strong compared to spells! Oh, and here's the Otomai Sword and Giger, as well as a Peccary Blade for everyone that can't get Haxtech to work!" And then we got all the other spells and ideas that were so obviously broken to the point where some simple math in your head would have been sufficient in figuring out that it would be overpowered without even testing it. Per example when Bluff was so powerful that 90% all characters in Astrub were Bluff Ecas (up from almost nobody a few days before) or when wis Xelors could consistently put everyone to 0-2 AP every turn.

The reason why all these features aren't working out and why the balancing is awry on so many levels isn't because "the game is old" and "systems are incompatible". It's because they're all just very poorly thought through. I really wish Ankama would properly think these things through instead of just randomly doing something and then saying "Oh, haha, looks like that was a total failure!". It's always "We do this because we want to encourage x", thinking that they're doing people a favor because you have to be cruel to be kind, but it's just pissing off everyone every time. Well, expect the 0.1% of people that were actually into whatever they're "encouraging".

But i'm getting very off-topic here. Anyway, my point is that these problems can be prevented if things are just properly thought through instead of just being hit or miss.

The players quest for optimization makes things lean in a certain manner, which in turn furthers this strange Darwinian journey to instead cull the 'strong'; however the meek do not inherit the earth, they also optimize to scramble to the top.

This has been a rather consistent system which is producing good results, however I feel they come about all too slowly.

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It's very simple: just give people an appropriate reward for their effort. That's all it takes to avoid such issues. Giving low level players insane xp for slapping on a prespic set and dying in turn 1 just happens to be an extreme violation of this rule, hence why we got all these problems with leeching. Punishing people for taking on a mob of a much higher level is also a violation of this rule, hence why people are outraged and this thread exists.

Caps are important to some degree.

If a lvl 400 team, 4 lvl 100 players, got more experience from a a lvl 600 mob than a lvl 600 team, wouldn't you be less inclined to invite friends along?

This to me fully supports a modifier of 0 for a higher level mob.

What about some classes that are imbalanced in terms of level progression however?

If a lvl 50 Int/Range build can easily take out a lvl 100 mob(such as Gobball hordes), wouldn't this put certain advantages which may then cause class changes?

Wouldn't this allow certain classes/builds to bypass content of a certain level thus perpetuating the problem, only in this case it can be someone going solo rather than requiring other players?


I don't think that would be an issue because gobs give very poor xp compared to level 50 monsters. Fighting monsters at a much lower level is generally giving out very bad xp even if the mob is capped right otherwise. Of course, it makes you wonder why certain classes got huge power high range AoE attacks while other classes are stuck throwing shovels at nearby monsters.

Achievements functioning as Wisdom is a wonderful idea.

But I personally would rather see a flat amount of xp/creature/mob.


The more i think about it, the more i like achievements boosting xp. My primary concern was that multis wouldn't be able to raise their alts quickly enough, but they're quick enough at doing so as it is, so that's fine. Throw in dependency on the highest achievement points on the account for good measure and we're golden. Of course, i wouldn't mind just straight removing wis' impact on xp without any replacement.

I would also say that stars are not a failure.

The goal of stars was to make the less played content more appealing, which it has.


The moment that stars appeared on desirable mobs at mainstream places, they were a failure. Especially at Frigost 2, you will find plenty of decent mobs that have 5 or more stars on them. The only reason why that problem isn't as prevalent at Frigost 3 is because there are so few mobs as a result of all areas literally being a fourth of a castle wall (lol). Anyway, just yesterday i did a couple of mobs with the TC and one of his characters got 42 MILLION XP from ONE mob. Not a boss mob or anything, just one normal mob. It had 7 stars. And no, it didn't have 7 stars because it was "less played content" that needed to be "made more appealing". In fact, it was a very decent mob. The reason why it had 7 stars simply is because stars are a broken feature that is out of control.

You say that the goal of stars was to make the less played content more appealing, but what it effectively did was making 90% of the entire game unappealing as it gives crappy xp and drops compared to the 10% of mobs that have 5+ stats, which is simply because these stars amass at ridiculous rates. There were much more appealing mobs before stars existed, you could just do any well-capped mob, now they all suck because you need 5 stars to get good xp.

Those that farm the same content "need" to scout around for "better" groups (ie more stars).


No. You kill the three mobs with good stars and then there are none left in this area, no matter how much you "scout" it. Then you just go do the dungeon, because what else are you going to do? Go to a different area? There aren't really a whole lot of areas for my level ~1570 team, are there?

Whereas players like me just go do things I don't do often and I get better rewards for playing the "underdog content".

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It would be nice if "underdog" content would be the only content to get stars, but that's not true. Hence why people are running around getting 40m xp per fight at some areas. Ideally, if content gives bad rewards, the rewards of the content should be buffed to make that content desirable. Stars should have never even existed. The original ideas of stars was to encourage mobs full of scrappy monsters that nobody wants to fight (Kilibriss, Soryo Firefoux, etc.), but that's the same thing again: if it's undesirable to fight a monster, just fix that monster instead of fighting a symptom with some half measure solution.

Eventually we will hopefully see the sidekick concept expand out into making a character on the same account a sidekick.


Super-quickly grind up an army of alts by abusing the bonus for having high level characters on the same account and then quickly turn them into one big army of multis? No thanks. Let's not completely throw any effort it takes to raise a couple of characters out of the window just yet.

Sidekicks were clearly implemented for solo accounters and classes which suffer from discriminatory content.


It's yet another symptom fighting solution made to tackle the problem that solo players have nobody to play with as everyone else feels compelled to be a multi. But yeah, multi isn't going away, so that's that, i guess.

(I would LOVE to see reviews and feedback from players trying Frig 3 content with sidekicks.)


I can guarantee you right now that this is going to suck completely. If Incarnations are any indication... well, you better not even think of about doing any serious dungeons with them. Just imagine trying to do a Frigost 3 Duo with these... LOL! Look at them, they have what, 6 spells each? Looks an awful lot like incarnations, if you ask me. I'm going to try some Frigost 3 using the multimen, but i'm not expecting anything less than a complete disaster. Ankama themselves said that it's not supposed to replace a real character, so you know it's going to be horrible. Well, i guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Despite what many players think, more money is great to Ankama, but I feel they would rather have a more community based game which multiaccounting doesn't really facilitate.

However with sidekicks it only takes 2 players to form a 4 man group.



"More money" is the exact reason why multis will never go away and why dofus will never be as fun as it used to be the first year. Multimen are just Ankama's commitment to this system, as in saying "Yeah, we see that multis are are a big problem, but we don't intend to remove them". They are even called Multimen.

n0ak|2013-12-09 13:51:01
I don't think that the argument 'If the monster gave more experience if there was a level gap between you and them you wouldn't feel inclined to invite friends' really works.


I agree. That argument is not even realistic. Nobody is going to say „Yay, i’m undercapped! I’m so happy that the game forces me to to invite my friends to this mob, as i have weird social issues that only allow me to do something with my friends when i’m standing right in front of a mob that would require me to take said friends to get good xp!“ Total nonsense. If the game cannot consistently offer reasonable mobs to a team looking for a fight, the system is a failure. The game should give the players the mobs they want, not the other way around.

I mean, sure, there are some classes that could potentially abuse the system, since solo combat is easier for them, but because of that forcing people to invite friends to help them? This isn't how hunting works, at least not from my experience. If I want to hunt, I invite people I want to hunt with and THEN we seek out mobs that more or less match our level. If we see something that is 300 levels above us, we either decide to fight with it anyway, because we figure it'll still be quicker than to look for another mob or decide that it's just not worth our time and seek out another monster group, which is less bothersome. I've never seen someone saying in this scenario 'Ops, let's better invite our friends to have a beneficial effort/reward ratio!'. While I get that the intention here is to leave this monster for a bigger group to stumble upon some time in the future, I find it not good enough reason for the system; it's just too frustrating.


Exactly. There's clearly something wrong if people even have to find additional people or ditch characters just to be able to cap the mob. And that's precisely what's causing a big percentage of these leeching problems. One scenario that i'm very familiar with is "there's an awesome mob here, but it's 100 levels overcapped, does anyone know a leech they can take for this fight?"

At this point, there's not even any doubt that this system is ridiculous and needs to be changed. Also, a big problem is the availability of mobs. You can't just look for a different mob if the mob you want to fight is overcapped because there are often only very few other mobs around, it might already be the best mob in the area that you're looking at.

So this is what I'd suggest to change this system to the benefit of players:

1. Divide every area into 3 smaller areas, in one there would be groups of 1-2 monsters, the other groups of 3-5 monsters and the last 6-8 monsters

This would searching for monsters far less frustrating and would greatly reduce the temptation to kill monsters of much higher level than the party. And if players would still fight monsters on territory outside their level range, well, they know what they're doing, the responsibility is all theirs. The experience capping stays.


That's an interesting approach. Definitely something to take into consideration.

2. Intorduce an item (let's say a horn) aquired like the bunch of keys which when used starts a fight with a group of monsters in the area of closest level to your party

Pros:

- Quick and easy

- Balanced fights

- Some risk included (it could happen that the closest monster in this area is 500 levels above you, you could get 0 star mob, or group full of the most annoying monsters)

- Multimen get to rest

Cons:

- Some maps would be horribly abused by map-dependent characters

- You don't get to see the area

- No point in monsters being aggressive (in most cases)

- Lazy people rejoice

- Pretty lame idea overall


Wow, that's a very good idea. I think you should make a separate suggestion for that. It would definitely be a worthwhile item as it would raise efficiency by cutting down the time it takes to find a mob. On top of that, it wouldn't even be hard to implement, pretty much just an O(n) run through all the mobs in the area and then throw the team into combat.

3. Change the capping, so that if you kill a group of monsters of higher level than you, you can get up to 100% bonus experience for it

Let's be honest, characters with strong soloing power are already privileged when it comes to most things; they can run most dungeons solo, do most achievements solo, start a leeching group if they need more exp from monsters etc. and introducing that one change would surely make it even more convininet for them. But I believe that there are some builds that are not acknowledged for their soloing power that could benefit from this system even more, because in practice it would make it easier to concentrate on hunting on a particular type of maps instead of wasting time running around looking for a small group, while trying to save time on not fighting large ones. I might be wrong here, but I think that for every class there is a map on which any particular kind of opponent could be tackled by any class. For example, some maps in dreggon sanctuary are a dream come true for characters with some map manipulation or summons, some maps at Oto island are incredible for aoe characters etc. I would like to see people taking risks instead of doing their best to kill monsters as easily and quickly as possible and that 100% xp bonus could help with that, without throwing the game off balance too much.


Making solo a thing again? I'm all for it. If it's too outrageous, it can be capped at 200% or something, but basically i disagree with how if a single player takes out a hard level 800 mob, they get shitty xp and the game is basically telling them "you idiot, take some leeches with you next time!". In my opinion, the biggest priority in giving out xp should be that people get a appropriate reward for their effort, and punishing people for being underleveled is not the way to do so.

On the subject of changing areas to make it easier to fight decent mobs, i'd change the following.

Make areas have a certain minimum size
Some places are just laughably small. Zoth used to be the best place to get xp, and it's a ridiculous 9 maps big. Meanwhile, blops occupy a vast area that takes ages to traverse. Frigost 3 came out recently and it's so small it's a joke, basically it's one set of castle walls that houses FOUR areas. I mean, what kind of an idea is that? When you're looking for a mob of 8 monsters, for instance, you might not even find such a mob in the are because currently, every map only has a 25% chance to contain such a mob and with one digit amounts of maps per area, there's a realistic chance to not even find anything at all.

Well, Zoth is going to canopy village now so that's nice, i'd love to see other areas being enlarged to house more mobs in a similar fashion. Imagine if most areas were just half as big as Cania Plains. I don't know, perhaps put in some parallel dimension feature that has a huge place that's just there to find mobs, or something, but i guess we can all agree on that a lot of ares are just too small.

Get rid of aggro
Seriously, why does this atrocious "feature" even exist? It adds nothing to this game. It's just a horrible feature that slows down searching mobs even further because you have to maneuver around aggro mobs all the time, get blocked by them and stuff like that. The Fungus Caverns are a prime offender, it's almost impossible to travel a serious distance in there without getting stuck at least once, hunting monsters in a big group at this place is just atrocious. Just getting to dungeons like Ougaa, Snowfoux, Wabbit Castle or Skeunk is incredibly annoying. And what does aggro add to this game? Keeping away low level characters that wouldn't gain anything from being there on their own anyway? Useless.

Have more mobs on a map
If aggro is gotten rid of, we might as well have more than 3 monsters per map to increase the amount of possible contenders for any team.

Get rid of stars
This feature is causing nothing but problems. Like spade and i already pointed out, it's just making mobs less desirable instead of more desirable. Take all the good mobs in an area and divide the amount by ten because most mobs don't have the start they need to be good xp. How is this not a complete failure of a system?

Also, please give us the option of checking out the map without challanging someone or attacking a weak monster. This is absurd.


I agree. To me, challenging to scout a map seems like a "hack" to work around the fact that we lack a feature that should be in the game for like half a decade by now.
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Frigost 3 came out recently and it's so small it's a joke, basically it's one set of castle walls that houses FOUR areas.
Don't forget that you can go "down" and get off the ramparts and find many more maps which generally have bigger mobs. The top ramparts only have up to 4 monsters per mob to take it easier for people to traverse them. All of those areas more than 10 maps, the smallest I think is the Water Clock Tower which has at least 9 or 10 maps as well.
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Score : 1774

Oh god Blazeron, you made us look like two angry, eldery men. Or maybe that's just your avatar smile

Nonetheless, everything you said is spot-on.

Although I absolutely love and I have always loved this game and in my mind very few other games, be it multiplayer or not, don't look absolutely bland. The changes that are made are more often good than bad, especially lately, and I really like how fast it is evolving and how ballsy the devs are.

As for my suggestions, I don't really like doing separate threads about such small things, I'd rather make another very abstract suggestion nobody responds to than write about something like this; especially since I consider it a poor idea.

Anyway, most of your suggestions are good and I can't see how I could add anything of importance here.

However, I was thinking about a 'global' stars system. If they want to encourage people to hunt on areas that are underused, why not give an experience bonus for every monster on the area? To give you an example, let's say that monsters on minotot island are given 200% increased experience, because nobody hunted there for 16h 40 mins (1% per 5 minutes, if that makes sense), and if a monster is defeated there, few percent drop from this value (for example 3 or 4, since it's a relatively small area). This way, if you're gonna hunt for an hour and kill 20 monsters in that time, the value will fall to 120% (20 * 4) and increase by 12% (5 mins * 12), resulting in area having 132% bonus exp and drops. This way 200% increase in drops and exp will be pretty rare, as everyone can look what area bonuses are at this moment and hunt there and there would definately be some decline in areas being forsaken.

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I don't think the horn suggestion would fly as the Devs want you to roam around and experience different maps, however depending on implementation this could potentially facilitate that.

I think I should clarify that I agree Wisdom boosting xp is an issue and have made no secret on these forums for my disdain of leeching.

Also, characters on the same account being used as multimen, I find your counter there to be flimsy.
It is easier to leech a new account than one on the same account as your main on that account is inaccessible.
Though the nature of multimen also seems like a way for the Devs to introduce miniclasses which they needn't worry about PvP balancing for.

However I am hoping to see some underground Pokemon-esque PvP battles popping up here and there...just for the luls.

In many ways I feel the fixes that were introduced are a good measure for the time being, as the complete restructuring of content is more labor intensive.

To use Wisdom or other stat bonuses as an example, I will quote our recent Q&A:

Electricotter: There is a certain disparity between the different characteristics in Dofus. Vitality offers, through trophies, good stat gains for poor caps along with increased HP. Intel offers Fire damage and healing. Chance gives Water damage and prospecting. Then you have other stats such as: Strength which offers Earth and Neutral damage along with pods. Agility which offers Lock, Dodge, and Crits. Lastly there is Wisdom, offering bonus experience, AP/MP Dodge, and AP/MP Removal. Within this framework classes, like the Rogue for example, which have an Intel build but no healing lose out on the secondary function of Intel (healing weapons aside). Are there any intentions of revisiting (such as healing based on different elements), removing (standardized XP gains to help discourage leeching and Wisdom being so important on the gear of certain levels), or redistributing (such as Strength boosting Lock and Agility boosting Dodge) the function of the different Dofus elements?
Lichen: Indeed, we’d like to review the bonus allocations that goes with each stat, for example it doesn’t seem suitable to keep lock and dodge tied to Agility when our goal is to separate lock and dodge. The impact of Wisdom and PP on respectively experience and drops rewards also creates issues as it attracts “abnormal” behavior (characters who earn lots of experience or drops while they are of very little use in the fights). But these aspects of the game are very complicated to modify as the majority of the players are very used to them and it becomes difficult to modify these without angering the players.
We already thought about tying heals to another element, but it implies a huge amount of development of new equipments and modifying certain classes.
For the time being, we are not planning to review to the bonuses associated with characteristics, but it is a topic which we regularly come back to and we try to find long-term solutions.

Electricotter: Do the secondary effects of an element play a role in how these builds are developed?
Lichen: It is something that we are trying to take into consideration, but that is not a main factor in our choices.
Please note where he refers to Wis characters as exhibiting "abnormal behavior".
As I explained earlier the apparent intent of Wisdom was more for AP/MP manipulation and Reflect damage.

Overtime however, the game matured into something better (which by the way is also the case with almost every bullet point you mentioned).

The game was designed, originally, a certain way.
Over time however, it matured into something I feel most players would say is better.

I would be interested to see the data for how the star system has impacted underdog content (which I am pretty sure would be positive), but I do agree that in many cases rewards don't mesh with the effort.

I advocate for more than just Wisdom to be altered...I also advocate for the removal of scrolling and a restructuring of caps as well though.

There are many systems that could use a deep overhaul which would allow changes to the game in a direction we would all like to see.

But these will most likely take time and/or ingenuity which is currently being spent elsewhere...for better or worse.

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Score : 1774

Yet again I can agree with almost everything Electricotter said. You make a lot of sense, speaking realistically.

I don't think the horn suggestion would fly as the Devs want you to roam around and experience different maps, however depending on implementation this could potentially facilitate that.
You planted a really nice suggestion here :>

So, to modify it a litte, horn would not bring battle to you, but bring you to the map that the monster is on, start a fight and make all your teammates join it (if they are somewhere in the area). However, to use this horn, you would have to complete the monster achievement linked to the inhabitants of the area, as well as complete new, real exploration achievement which requires you to visit every map in the area.

A little better, right?
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Score : 390

I agree that bonus wisdom is a HARD feature to remove, but it doesn't have to be removed entirely. Leveling a character just has to be made "par" with leeching (Leeching clearly needs to be turned down, while fighting without that 19x there needs to be turned up). I think maps also need some re balancing 30+ level 60 areas? Lets see some of these areas turn into 100, 120, 140, 160, 180 , 190, and 200. Go see how many level 20-50 people are there on Rushu. The lowest levels you see on Rushu are bots. Realistically you can find a 1500+ Cappable mobs in 5(Frigost 3 could argue + 4) areas. Snowfoxes, Ghosts, Brockhards, Petrified forest. The reason I don't say Frigost 3 has "4" extra areas, is because the little amount of mobs you actually find. The logic ankama does is new area is 800x better than the old. Lets not forget people sometimes just want "MORE" to do, not something more difficult.

I saw a post mentioning that the reason people want to be a higher level is that dungeons are more complex. This is a part of the game I get tired of. "How will I get instantly killed this time?" Dofus doesn't need to have every dungeon be a thinkers paradise. I agree it is fun every now and again, but sometimes you just want to smack something in the face and it loses health, Not fly to Africa punch a lion then fly back before you miss your 1 turn opportunity to hit. I very much enjoy Frigost 1-2(Granted these have become much easier over time) , but I get so tired of having to make everything vulnerable. Challenge doesn't always make a dungeon more interesting.

Adding "Challenge" to these lower dungeons will not bring back the desire to play these levels. In fact I spent MOST of my time leveling new characters. The low level content is fun enough without challenge.

Another point, I often farm Kwakwa and Dinks for drops. The amount of appropriate leveled characters I see there is 0. Level 190s? All the time.It isn't to say there are not some grinding out the levels, but that is a silly argument because the amount is so minuscule .

I still don't think stars need to exist on a game like dofus. Monsters need to have natural reasons to be worth killing.

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