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Dofus "F2P" Model: DLC Packs

By Gunnerwolfang - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - December 26, 2016, 16:34:14
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Score : 13259

Not only are the areas not self contained, but the recipes for items are designed in such a way that there isn't a single area people can neglect completely as they redid the recipes a while back specifically because ankama was unhappy with people only running 1 dungeon and getting the gear from it. Similarly, profession resources are so scattered throughout the world that to do anything you would need to be able to go everywhere.

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@ Madsock
Initially, I also thought of making DLC gear restriction, but decided against it because it would be counterproductive to the trade economy.

@ Nerd-Tease
That is the point of buying more DLC, if you want to do more, then buy more. Buy more DLC or buy more resources from those who bought the DLC to gain access to those areas. Now if you prefer limited full access model, then by all means keep on using the old p2p model, but if you want one time payment for unlimited access to contents that you want, the DLC model will allow you to do so.

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Alright, since that wasn't a clear enough example as to why this is a terrible idea for you.

Here's an economic reason.

Currently I pay regularly to have full access to the game. The amount I pay out of pocket is small. Per month it is but a few minutes of my working time to be able to play the game.
It adds up to more than paying $10 per zone ankama releases after a while (Over multiple years), but I am much more willing to pay it than to pay $400 (this is actually lower than what it would cost with your proposal) to be able to do what I want in game, and then still have to toss another $10 per new area.

Yeah, I guess in theory I could save money if you only look at it like this. (and only considering a very long term commitment to the game) But when you look at it from Ankama's perspective, not only are they less likely to have new player adoption with this ridiculous model, but they also don't have a continuous source of income from players that have been playing for a while.

Also if they switched to this model, I can almost guarantee they'd have almost everyone who has been playing long term quit.

And unlike games with single player offline modes, I either have to rely on other people also having shelled out for everything or multi-account, multiplying this upfront cost.

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Score : 3145

The important question then, according to these DLC packs does the areas unlocked for eternity once bought?

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Score : 75

The main problem for us as players has been stated multiple times already but not addressed properly. To have A working DLC model you need a substantial core of the game that's engaging and satisfying on its own. This means that the core can't have direct ties with the DLC however it can (maybe even should) happen the other way around. In a game where quests require you to have multiple areas to complete them and recipes require resources from multiple areas to craft them, players are PUNISHED and not rewarded for buying a DLC since it will never be fully self contained unless you buy the whole thing. And that self containment is the main problem that will prevent this idea from ever being implemented.

However, as food for thought I'll give you this. Kwismas island and Vulkania are areas which could fit pretty well in to this new system with very few changes. They have ties back to the original content but do not have strong ties the other way around, provide new content, you get an exclusive item (a petsmount) to show off for your achievements there and are unnecessary to enjoy the core of the game, all the properties of a solid DLC. But how many players would be willing to pay extra to have access to something like this? And now we want to expand this to the entire world with a mandatory redesign to fit this formula?

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Score : 25846
trololo2222|2016-12-28 12:58:36
The important question then, according to these DLC packs does the areas unlocked for eternity once bought?
Yes. That is what DLC models are all about. Once you pay the one time fee to unlock an area, you unlock it for all eternity (atleast until Ankama close the game).

Nerd-Tease|2016-12-28 12:11:21
It adds up to more than paying $10 per zone ankama releases after a while (Over multiple years), but I am much more willing to pay it than to pay $400 (this is actually lower than what it would cost with your proposal) to be able to do what I want in game, and then still have to toss another $10 per new area.
Actually, it only adds up to about $300+ for the whole game, with additional $20-40 a year if you keep buying good new contents (assuming Ankama do try to create better contents and they will have to if they want players to buy their DLCs).

Nerd-Tease|2016-12-28 12:11:21
Yeah, I guess in theory I could save money if you only look at it like this. (and only considering a very long term commitment to the game) But when you look at it from Ankama's perspective, not only are they less likely to have new player adoption with this ridiculous model, but they also don't have a continuous source of income from players that have been playing for a while.
As I have said before, Ankama can continue to milk players like you who thinks that DLCs are dumb, while Ankama can have additional revenue from those who thinks that subscription models are dumb. The best of both world.

azas199|2016-12-28 13:17:56
The main problem for us as players has been stated multiple times already but not addressed properly. To have A working DLC model you need a substantial core of the game that's engaging and satisfying on its own. This means that the core can't have direct ties with the DLC however it can (maybe even should) happen the other way around. In a game where quests require you to have multiple areas to complete them and recipes require resources from multiple areas to craft them, players are PUNISHED and not rewarded for buying a DLC since it will never be fully self contained unless you buy the whole thing. And that self containment is the main problem that will prevent this idea from ever being implemented.
How many of free players were compelled to subscribe because they can't complete quest in Astrub that needs to be completed on a subscriber area? That will also be the main reason why players will need to buy more DLCs if they want to complete more quest, more professions, more resources. Players are not being punished by buying DLCs, they will be rewarded with more and more contents.

azas199|2016-12-28 13:17:56

However, as food for thought I'll give you this. Kwismas island and Vulkania are areas which could fit pretty well in to this new system with very few changes. They have ties back to the original content but do not have strong ties the other way around, provide new content, you get an exclusive item (a petsmount) to show off for your achievements there and are unnecessary to enjoy the core of the game, all the properties of a solid DLC. But how many players would be willing to pay extra to have access to something like this? And now we want to expand this to the entire world with a mandatory redesign to fit this formula?
Actually, kwismas slayhound quest requires that you do dungeon star quest which will need other areas. But the point is, if players want to complete all quest on certain areas, they will have to buy more DLC.
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If it's only an alternative payment model and not a replacement of the current model, I don't see the problem. Maybe the packs need to be fewer and bigger in order to not be too limiting, maybe the core area needs to be larger, but more options on how to pay for the game seems like a good thing. (Personally I'd most likely buy all the areas right away on my main accounts, just to not have to worry about subscription running out anymore, and buy packs for secondary accounts later.)

This model might also be helpful for all the players who feel overwhelmed by new content because they haven't explored all the old content yet but feel pushed to go to those new areas. They can just ignore the new regions and enjoy the areas they have access to until they feel ready to get additional packs.

Anyway, I think Gunner deserves credit for at least trying to come up with a creative solution to players asking for Dofus to be free to play. If you think it's a bad idea, of course you should say so, but no need to beat down on it so hard without even having a different suggestion.

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Score : 75
How many of free players were compelled to subscribe because they can't complete quest in Astrub that needs to be completed on a subscriber area? That will also be the main reason why players will need to buy more DLCs if they want to complete more quest, more professions, more resources. Players are not being punished by buying DLCs, they will be rewarded with more and more contents.
How am I rewarded if i pay to get an incomplete product? If you don't like my argument about quests (consider the different quality of the rewards in Asturb quests and something like the eternal harvest too), there is no going around the current recipe problem. If players are incentivized to buy more not because they enjoy it but because it is forced upon them constantly, guess how many will do that. I hate to have to repeat myself and others before me but it all comes down to not being self contained. If and when that issue is solved, only then will this DLC option be viable.

I understand your passion for the game and that you' be willing to pay large amounts of money for it but very few would do the same and unless players either buy everything or skip the low level zones by leeching, this new system would cause constant disappointment and frustration since it will never be a full experience.

If it's only an alternative payment model and not a replacement of the current model, I don't see the problem.
It can coexist, i bet it would cause some problems too but that's hard to predict. The trouble here would be the time and effort the developers would have to exert in making this new system. I doubt they are going to bother if I'm completely honest.

The idea itself isn't bad, just not very suitable for the current state the game is in.
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You will be rewarded because you get to play contents that you bought. It is not about getting rewarded with full access, it is about getting rewarded with unlimited access. If you want more access, then buy more. That is the concept of DLC, It is not for someone who wants limited access to all areas, it is for someone who wants unlimited access to certain areas, in short it is not meant to lure old players like you, it was meant to lure new players who do not like the subscription model.

Think of it this way, would you buy a car or would you rent a car, Renting would be the cheaper Subscription model, while buying would be the more expensive investment of DLC model.

And yes, it can coexist with the subscription model, just as easily how f2p vs p2p vs premium do exist in the current model. And the developers can consider this option if they really want to lure more players into the game rather than making the game full f2p with microtransactions. The effort would be minimal since the system for area activation is already in place on the f2p/p2p/premium system.

azas199|2016-12-28 13:51:59
I understand your passion for the game and that you' be willing to pay large amounts of money for it but very few would do the same and unless players either buy everything or skip the low level zones by leeching, this new system would cause constant disappointment and frustration since it will never be a full experience.
You have no idea how much content I will be buying initially, right now with my busy schedule I would probably be buying 3 DLC (Almanax, Ankama and Sufokia). That means that I will have access to areas that I have been playing on for the last 2-3 years for only $30-60. How's that for being a big spender?
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wait a minute there's something i missed in ur proposal.(example) if i pay 10 bucks for the frigost dlc right now. do i have access to the frigost area forever? if that's the case with ur dlc plan then yea i like its financially better than what we have now.

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Score : 75

From what i gather the disagreement here comes from our different understanding of the purpose of DLC. It is rather difficult to agree on something when we have this in our way. In my opinion DLC aren't a problem in gaming as long as they are done right. The best regarded DLCs are always the ones that enrich the game but aren't forced upon the player. And for the reasons mentioned every DLC pack here would be forced. The frustration i was talking about is me putting myself in a new player's shoes and seeing everything locked away from me and a constant need to pay more to get more but never all that i want and expect unless i buy everything. Maybe that's just me but seeing that really puts me off from playing a game. I may very well be wrong, I just fail to see the appeal of this new system to anyone but veterans who still want to play and have permanent p2p access to certain areas they visit constantly regardless.

This is why i only imagine the DLC pack possibly working if everything was redesigned in a manner similar to the Kwismas island.

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@ Sarunojii
Frigost might cost more than $10 but yes, once you paid for Frigost DLC, you can play on frigost forever (or until Dofus closed down).

@ azas199
Yes, some new players might get turned off by the incomplete access of the DLC model, but in their case, they can opt for the old subscription model. This DLC model is designed for those who are turned off by the subscription model. This way, Ankama can deliver a new monetization model that can cater to a different set of crowd.

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then i'm totally ok with the dlc plan to be honest. for those of us that pay money yearly to play dofus the DLC model is cheaper on the long run and you don't even need to be a genius at match to figure that out. dofus yearly is like 50 bucks. a one time purchase of all dlc will probably be over the 50 bucks mark but then that's it you never have to spend a dime again. so it seems like a good idea to me

azas199|2016-12-28 14:34:04
From what i gather the disagreement here comes from our different understanding of the purpose of DLC. It is rather difficult to agree on something when we have this in our way. In my opinion DLC aren't a problem in gaming as long as they are done right. The best regarded DLCs are always the ones that enrich the game but aren't forced upon the player. And for the reasons mentioned every DLC pack here would be forced. The frustration i was talking about is me putting myself in a new player's shoes and seeing everything locked away from me and a constant need to pay more to get more but never all that i want and expect unless i buy everything. Maybe that's just me but seeing that really puts me off from playing a game. I may very well be wrong, I just fail to see the appeal of this new system to anyone but veterans who still want to play and have permanent p2p access to certain areas they visit constantly regardless.

This is why i only imagine the DLC pack possibly working if everything was redesigned in a manner similar to the Kwismas island.
and yea like u said the dlc has to be done right, like, what would be included in that dllc and is it worth my 10 bucks to move over to a dlc model . if the dlc only gives u access to more maps and nothing more it seems dumb to me.

to me a dofus dlc shld be a pack: xxx map + mystery box comprising of the items of the moment + a few ogrines. by items of the moment i mean that every update we get a new haven bag a new costume a new harness etc so that should be part of the dlc
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Ofcourse, all DLC packs comes with a promo just like the Subscription model.

Example:
Ouginak DLC Pack $10
- Gives you early access to the Ouginak class
- Unlocks a new area forever
- Gives you an exclusive Livi-costume (canine themed with 20 dog appearances)

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Well, I've stated my arguments, if they didn't change your mind, i don't think i can find any more to do so. Just my take on this new idea in a nutshell.
1. Is it a cheaper method of paying? Yes, in the long run it most definitely is (+ the possibility of skipping areas makes it cheaper).
2. Does this cater to new players or veterans? Veterans, players who will skip low level areas all together, no doubt.
3. Does it fragment the game and hurt the play experience? Yes, it further barrens the already empty areas of the world.
4. Would such a system lower the revenue for Ankama? Yes, since it's cheaper for us they obviously gain less money.
5. With all of this in mind, is it likely for them to implement such a system? No, I'm willing to bet it's not going to happen.

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1. Is it a cheaper method of paying? Actually, some thinks it is more expensive in terms of initial investment.
2. Does this cater to new players or veterans? Both, new players who wants to learn the game slowly can also benefit and those who do not have steady money to pay consistently for monthly subscription.
3. Does it fragment the game and hurt the play experience? No, additional new players plus players staying because they no longer need to keep subscribing and are satisfied even with not buying all DLC. If old players can keep playing even when new contents are not interesting for them, the game will retain more players. And more player retention equals a better playing experience.
4. Would such a system lower the revenue for Ankama? Well, some say it is more expensive... so they will keep using the subscription model, Ankama will gain additional revenue from players who do not want the subscription model..
5. With all of this in mind, is it likely for them to implement such a system? Well, it would be better than the steam full f2p suggestions, more players equals more money, and who does not want more money?

But we are indeed going in circle now, so I guess we should agree to disagree. We have different perspective on how this will affect the game.

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azas199|2016-12-28 15:13:37
Well, I've stated my arguments, if they didn't change your mind, i don't think i can find any more to do so. Just my take on this new idea in a nutshell.
1. Is it a cheaper method of paying? Yes, in the long run it most definitely is (+ the possibility of skipping areas makes it cheaper).
2. Does this cater to new players or veterans? Veterans, players who will skip low level areas all together, no doubt.
3. Does it fragment the game and hurt the play experience? Yes, it further barrens the already empty areas of the world.
4. Would such a system lower the revenue for Ankama? Yes, since it's cheaper for us they obviously gain less money.
5. With all of this in mind, is it likely for them to implement such a system? No, I'm willing to bet it's not going to happen.
i feel like its somewhat happening already . not exactly as Gunner was explaining but there's something . since the steam introduction they've introduced two new packs. the kerub and atcham pack they kinda look like dlc packs only exception is you still get monthly sub. i like the dlc idea but i don't see ankama doing it here. maybe on dofus 3 why not... the periodic sub model has been around for 10 11 years . and theres nothing out there that's pointing towards a change with that. and it would be so problematic with koths and other quests that might teleport to different areas
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Sample DLC Pricing (could be higher or lower depending on promos and discounts).
Free: Astrub and Incarnam
1. Astrub outlying area $10
2. Amakna $15
3. Sufokia $15
4. Dark Forest, Bworks and Crackler Mountain. $10
6. Dragoturkey and Koalak $10
7. Cania $15
8. Bonta and Brak $15
9. Four Island $15
10. Pandala $15
11. Otomai $15
12. Frigost 1-3 $20
13. Each Dimension $5 each = $20
14. Seasonal DLC $15
15. New Area DLC (Example: Ohwymi DLC) $10

Total DLC Price = $200
and you can play all that content forever.

I would probably start off with Astrub (almanax), Amakna (temple dopple quest), and Sufokia (Rapture quest) so I will start off with $40, and soon add Bonta/Brak for the market, so Ankama would get around $55 on my first year. Then I'd probably buy the early access Ouginak DLC.

Then Ankama can create 3-4 new area/content DLC per year for an additional $30-60 a year... But they would have to make those new content really good or else they won't sell... With this system, Ankama cannot be lazy and deliver mediocre contents. They will have to work really hard in order to deliver enticing DLCs, if they don't make good contents, they won't sell DLCs.

Is it more expensive for new players? Yes, but just like my car rental vs car buying analogy, it would be cheaper in the long run. I already see a few players willing to pay for the full DLC, simply because they no longer have to worry about paying for subscription, year after year after year.... In 4 years time, you paid $200 in subscription which would be equivalent to buying the full DLC.

Now for Ankama, will they lose out on the long run if a lot of players starts buying the full game and stop subscribing? No... as long as they develop new contents that would be interesting enough, they can keep selling new DLC's every year plus the additional playerbase who do not like subscription would be additional revenue for Ankama.

Edit:
Now what do we get from each DLC besides area unlock?

Example
Astrub Outlying Area DLC $10
- Unlocks Astrub Inlet Lvl 10 (Sand Dungeon)
- Unlocks Taniella Lvl 15 (Gobball Dungeon)
- Unlocks Lousy Pig Plain Lvl 40 (Almanax Temple)
- Unlocks Cemetery of Heroes Lvl 40
- Unlocks Other Areas in Astrub like the Astrub Sewers and the cave where you can get the "Crossarms" emote (yeah, f2p can get them but only with a subscriber to pull the lever).
-Extra goodies:
--- Gobball or Ghast pet pack
--- 6 months worth of Veteran Reward time (would only be cumulative with other DLC time).
--- 1 Tofu and 1 Gobball Lottery Token
--- 1 Beach Set or Beach themed Haven Bag
--- +900 pods on HB chest

Generic Bonus for all DLC packs that are similar to subscriber perks.
--- Unlocks Pet/Sidekick Slots.
--- Unlocks chat limits.
--- Unlocks profession level limits.
--- You can now buy and own and use house and paddocks (on areas that you have unlocked).
--- Increase in friends list.

Now for $10 of subscription you can play on ALL the areas of the game for approximately 2 months, but the difference is with a $10 DLC pack, although you only get to play on those areas, you can play on those areas for as long as Dofus is playable.

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main problem for me is if you're new and discovering dofus and you think (example) hey i fell in love with the game i'm gonna buy it. price tag: 200 bucks ?? no way in hell that person will pay that first hand in one go. and if you don't? well you're stuck in the game because it turns out there's this quest you've been wanting to do but it's in otomai and u don't have otomai so now ur stuck. main problem with ur dlc idea is that its flawed.

when i buy a dlc on steam or whatever for example for the witcher gta dark souls etc when i buy the game it comes AS A WHOLE. meaning i can enjoy the game fully without having to ever purchase a dlc.
in your model i'm penalized because unless i purchase all dlc i CANNOT enjoy the game as a whole. for this simple reason i think a lot of people will join me to tell you your proposal is bound to failure.

the only things that seem acceptable to come as a dlc pack is mounts pets equipments services etc but not maps.

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I haven't read all the points, but what about ogrines?

I haven't spent a single £ in years for subscription because ogrines cover that for. This new model would force me to spend money for an unnecessary reason. Also, I'd rather spend £4 a month to have access to everything, because it thins out my cost (meaning I don't have to spend a burst of cash at once). Sure, in the long term I'd spend more in total, but I'd rather not spend £200 in a month to gain access to X amount of content.

Edit: Also, you wouldn't be able to treasure hunt/portal hunt since it's spread all over the world.

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