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Ankama Trackers

STRONGER PERCEPTORS

By maruniasz - SUBSCRIBER - December 18, 2018, 19:24:38

There is a big issue, when it comes to fights against perceptors. It is much harder to defend perceptor, than to kill it and the reason is logic (already organised attackers vs chaotic defenders, that have limited time to join) even when a well organised alliance is attacked, all of defenders are in much worse situation (they don't even know what the arrangement on map and do they need more cc or range characters and may be already in e.g. kolossium fight or during a final fight in dungeon etc.) and.. it shouldn't be disbalanced like that. I am really disappointed, that Ankama hasn't noticed it yet. It is almost a nonsense to place perceptors, because they are too easy to defeat and the resources they collect almost always are not worth placing it. At its own perceptors have the same skills since the game was created. Several useless spells (maybe unbewitchment is the only useful there) and very very low damage. Perceptors MUST get a great boost, so the fights aren't that much disbalanced and a group of attackers must to try harder to defeat a perceptor. Perceptors damage must be increased and also its usefulness on battlefield need a profound rework, so it is profitable to invest "guild points" into perceptor spells.

I invite you to dicussion about it topic. Will you underwrite under this idea?

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This has been discussed in the past before.

You have to understand that as it is, there are hardly anyone perc hunting anymore. Perc hunting is not that rewarding and very boring. If we are to discourage perc hunting more, we might as well just remove it.

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You sure about that? Maybe it depends on the server. On Ily I get perc attack messages so often it has become an annoyance...

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The solution is: make perceptors stronger and also make them be more rewarding (better drop rate, more pods).
Btw. perceptor hunting is not boring. It seems like you are a PVM'er so.. In my opinion pvm is boring, then lets remove all free running monsters except these in dungeons! - following this logic

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Completely agree with the suggestion. With each update Dofus is climbing up the power scale yet perceptors have stayed the same for quite a while now. It's time to improve them and/or remove the mechanism which makes the fight end when perceptor is killed.

Perceptor-hunting is still a popular activity in Dofus - nowadays even the strongest alliances get attacked dozens of times throughout the day. Plenty of times I have witnessed miserable attackers turning to perceptor when they cannot succeed in killing the defenders. And killing perceptor is like taking candy from a baby because of its low resistances, dysfunctional AI and other factors which do not depend on defenders: attackers'  strategic choice of map, classes and longer preparation.

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Treciokas|2018-12-20 20:17:56
Perceptor-hunting is still a popular activity in Dofus - nowadays even the strongest alliances get attacked dozens of times throughout the day. Plenty of times I have witnessed miserable attackers turning to perceptor when they cannot succeed in killing the defenders. 
 

Like I said, there are hardly any perc hunter anymore, and they only do it because of the fact that they can win by defeating the weak perc. 

Now, if the perc become stronger, will any miserable attacker ever attempt to attack? Just remove perc system if there will be few players participating in it.
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In opposition to what Gunnerwolfang has said, there are plently of perceptor-hunters. And most of them attack perceptor with an idea of having a fair 5v5 fight. However, there's a portion of desperate players who start focusing perceptor when they see that they cannot win a fight otherwise. Such action is dishonorable and is looked down upon in our community. And to discourage that, we're asking for an improvement of perceptors.

There are some shameless players who go around attacking perceptors with the only purpose of killing perceptor first. And you say that if perceptors were improved miserable attackers would stop focusing perceptor first? Let it be then. That would only affect PvP in a positive way. Although, I doubt anyone would stop doing anything after perceptors are improved.

As I said, Dofus is climbing up the power scale with each update. New equipment and stuff are always stronger and pushing the limit to a new peak. Therefore, it only gets easier to kill an already weak perceptor. Our suggestion to improve perceptor's stats is reasonable and appropriate.

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"And you say that if perceptors were improved miserable attackers would stop focusing perceptor first?"

I said that there will be less perceptor attacker if you discourage perc killer even more. If most of current perc-hunter do it for the fair fight, making the perc stronger would no longer be fair for most of those who find the current system to be fair. So if the current system is fair for most, you are not asking for fairness but rather an advantage for perc-defender.
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Treciokas|2018-12-22 13:16:48

You can't say that the current system is accepted by majority of players because you don't have the statistics to prove that. Just because there isn't a massive outrage on forums, it doesn't mean that changes are not needed.

I am not the one who said that. you implied it when you said that most of those perc-hunter are doing it with the idea of having a fair fight.
Treciokas|2018-12-22 11:39:21
In opposition to what Gunnerwolfang has said, there are plently of perceptor-hunters. And most of them attack perceptor with an idea of having a fair 5v5 fight. 

Now if I can't say that according to you the current system is accepted by majority because I do not have the statistics to prove that, I'm curious if you have the statistics to claim that that most perc-hunter attack perceptor with an idea of having a fair fight. Do you also have the statistic to prove that there is a portion of desperate attacker? Where do you pull the statistics to prove all your claim?
 
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My claims are based on my experience. I've met a lot of perc-hunters who do not focus perceptor unless all defenders are dead. I've seen a lot of such attackers, that's why I say that majority of perc-hunters want to have fair 5v5 fights.

Also, I've had fights where attackers all of a sudden started focusing perceptor when they felt that they were not capable of winning anymore. Some people are even known for their recurrent perceptor-focusing behavior. Such behavior is condemned by a lot of players with many people usually publicly expressing their disapproval after perc-focusing actions from attackers. I disagree with such strategy as well and that's why I call such attackers desperate and miserable, and there's no denying that there is a portion of attackers who practice such strategy all the time.

I questioned the source of your claims because you don't seem to have any recent experience regarding perc-hunting. Everything that you've said here is based on your personal opinion ("perc hunting is not that rewarding and very boring") and definitely not current experience ("there are hardly any perc hunter anymore"), and you just seem to argue for the sake of arguing. Saying that making perceptor stronger would discourage people to hunt perceptors so much that it would equal in removing perceptor system is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who hunt perceptors for the sake of having fair PvP fights and who couldn't care less if perceptors were boosted. And yes, there are just enough of perc-hunters right now, perc-hunting is an everyday activity for a decent amount of PvP-oriented players. And it certainly is not boring and rewardless to those who attack dozens of perceptors every day.

You're arguing without arguments. You're quoting my words looking for political correctness in them whilst you yourself are presenting information which is questionable and of unknown origin. I've brought so many reasons to why perceptors should be boosted whilst you just said something like this: "there barely are any perc-hunters and all of them focus perc, remove the system if you plan on boosting percs". It's nearly insulting to argue with you when you present such statements as arguments.

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Just to add my 2 cents on the matter. Currently Multi accounting in perc attacks is rampant and most of these MA's have no honor they will go perc first. There are also premade groups which perc hunt on a regular basis with broken team compositions like 3 sacs 1 eca 1 feca etc. And these groups can and will rush perc if they percieve they are losing.

Therefore a system similar to prisms needs to be implemented. Invuln until either 1: all defenders are dead or 2: 2 have died.
The perc does indeed require a damage boost but nothing too overpowered because then all 5v5's will become 5v6's and no one wants that.

As for increasing the pods and pp I disagree. I think percs are balanced well on that front.
What I do want improvement on is a filtering system. Filtering out worthless high pod consuming resources/resource bags/stones etc that no one needs and just ends up stored in a bank collecting dust. A sort of list of all resources in the percs range will be made and you can check off what you want, the rest will never enter the storage of the perc.

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Treciokas|2018-12-26 13:45:49
The current system is not fair anymore. 

Then stop claiming that there are lots of perc hunter that are doing it for fair fights. The truth is, lots of perc hunters are doing it due to the broken mechanics and you can't accept that fact which would validate my claim that removing that broken mechanics would make those lots of player stop perc-hunting.

As a defender, your goal is to protect the perc. Why impose on the attacker a high-horse rule that the fight should be "kill all defender to win"? If you can't protect your perc, then don't place them. Cry all you want and shame the perc-focuser all you want. The only thing that matters is who wins gets the spoil. All is fair in love and WAR! PvP is war. Remember that. Who cares if it is despicable to atomic bomb a city as long as you win the war in doing so. Losers can cry foul all they want, the winner will still get the spoils and victory.

"Hur! Hur! Perc-focusing is shameful, despicable and is not an acceptable behavior and should be stopped!"
Well guess what? Talk to the hand. This is Dofus!

 
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Then stop claiming that there are lots of perc hunter that are doing it for fair fights. The truth is, lots of perc hunters are doing it due to the broken mechanics and you can't accept that fact which would validate my claim that removing that broken mechanics would make those lots of player stop perc-hunting.


All of the biggest PvP alliances in Echo perc hunt daily for fair fights, there is only a few groups/people that abuse weak perceptors and attack it first. Removing broken mechanics would have minimal impact on majority of PvP fights and actually improve some of them since perceptors sometimes gets killed due to AoE spells or Sadida poison and it's not fun for anyone.
As a defender, your goal is to protect the perc. Why impose on the attacker a high-horse rule that the fight should be "kill all defender to win"? If you can't protect your perc, then don't place them. Cry all you want and shame the perc-focuser all you want. The only thing that matters is who wins gets the spoil. All is fair in love and WAR! PvP is war. Remember that. Who cares if it is despicable to atomic bomb a city as long as you win the war in doing so. Losers can cry foul all they want, the winner will still get the spoils and victory.


"Your goal is to protect the perc" - have you ever tried to defend perceptor when attacker is trying to kill it? It is close to impossible with the current system.

I would have nothing against people trying to kill it first if it would be at least possible for defenders to protect the perceptor or win the fight before it dies. But currently you can kill it on first turn  without half of the players even having a turn.

It seems like you don't have any idea about the current state of perceptors and PvP on the server and I would suggest you to try defending a perceptor before arguing again.
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Bloobas|2018-12-28 13:29:02
All of the biggest PvP alliances in Echo perc hunt daily for fair fights, there is only a few groups/people that abuse weak perceptors and attack it first. Removing broken mechanics would have minimal impact on majority of PvP fights and actually improve some of them since perceptors sometimes gets killed due to AoE spells or Sadida poison and it's not fun for anyone.
 

Do you have statistics to prove your claim or is it based on your personal experience that we should all just believe as facts?




Bloobas|2018-12-28 13:29:02
"Your goal is to protect the perc" - have you ever tried to defend perceptor when attacker is trying to kill it? It is close to impossible with the current system.

I would have nothing against people trying to kill it first if it would be at least possible for defenders to protect the perceptor or win the fight before it dies. But currently you can kill it on first turn  without half of the players even having a turn.

It seems like you don't have any idea about the current state of perceptors and PvP on the server and I would suggest you to try defending a perceptor before arguing again.

My alliance have successfully defended against the strongest perc-focuser. Yes it is possible if you make a team that focuses on protecting the perc instead of focusing on killing the attacker. Just because it is impossible to you, does not mean it is impossible to others. This is "Perc fight", the goal of the fight is to protect/kill the perc, not kill each other PvP. Stop changing the rule of the fight to make perc-focuser look like despicable rulebreakers, just because you can't be bothered to change your team strategy.
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Gunnerwolfang|2018-12-21 16:07:13

Like I said, there are hardly any perc hunter anymore, and they only do it because of the fact that they can win by defeating the weak perc. 
  



Do you have statistics to prove your claim or is it based on your personal experience that we should all just believe as facts?

Also, could I be informed of the name of alliance your guild is in for research purposes? Just want to get a closer look at your personal background and actually see for myself what kind of big alliance it is that makes you proclaim that "barely anyone perc-hunts anymore".

We're not asking to make perceptor impossible to defeat first. We're asking to make perceptor stronger (hence the title of this topic) so that both sides have fair chances at winning the fight. Right now attackers have huge advantages: they get to pick strategic maps, starting positions, classes which work the best in their chosen maps and they also have much more time for preparation. Whilst defenders do not even see the map before being sent into the fight and yet they have to prepare a strategic defense in incredibly short amount of time. With each update Dofus is pushing the damage limit to a new summit - dealing 7k damage now (assuming perceptor is level 200 and has 7000 HP) is easier than ever. It's only fair and reasonable to ask for an improvement of survivability of perceptors.
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I'm not the one who brought up the statistics card in this thread and proceeded to provide no proof themselves.

No, I don't intend to inform you because I intend to keep you ignorant of facts. The burden of proof lies on the accuser. You want proof, provide it yourself because you are the one accusing that the system is broken.

Who said you are asking to make perc impossible to beat? Stop making strawman argument. What I am saying is that most players, according to you, perc-hunt for a fair fight, which means that the current system, implied by your claim, is fair. Making the perc stronger would tip that fair balance to the defender.




By now, we are just repeating the same arguments over and over again so I will just agree to disagree, You think that most players currently do perc-hunt for the fair experience so you want the perc to be buffed moving forward. I disagree and leave it at that. Enjoy your perc defense when nobody will be doing any.

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Can we please have a constructive argument. You guys act like children. Gunnerwolfang has a good point. If percs are buffed will PvPers still attack them? Please focus on the discussion, don't take everything so personally. Let calm minds prevail please.

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5 attacker Vs 5 defender (+ 1 perceptor that should be buffed to discourage 1-2 turn focus-kill)?
I don't think so.

While 5 attacker and the 5 defender are fighting evenly, the 6th member (perceptor), who is suggested to be not be able to focus-killed can deal extra hits, extra debuff, extra meatshield. And since the suggestion is to discourage perc focusing, nobody will be encouraged to perc-focus because it will be an advantageous fight for the 5 defender + 1 perceptor. This suggestion to discourage perc-focus-kill will not be fair to the attacker. Like I said, if perceptor cannot be focus killed, just remove the perc mechanics because nobody will fight in a 5v5 where the defender gets an extra member without any drawback.

I would suggest just leveling the playing field. In order to attack a perceptor, the attacker should place his own perceptor for the defender to attack (5v5, both side have their own perceptor to attack and defend). But I don't think Ankama wants me to make additional suggestion on other's suggestion due to derailment so I will not elaborate on my suggestion, and besides, I am a PvMer who is suggesting an actually fair PvP system, no PvPer would want my suggestion. 

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Gunnerworlfang apparently don't know what he is talking about. Waste of time to read his arguments.

To rectify: If any pvp team will focus on killing perc at first, they WILL kill it in 1-2 turns. Almost every character can debuff, almost every character can put on erosion and almost every character can deal huge amount of damage to 25% res perceptor.

Gunner, as you mentioned, you are PVMer, then stay in your pvm world. You are writing baloneys about real perceptor hunt attack/deff. Please leave this post and go write about topics you are acquainted with.

Gunner, please read once more what I've written to you.

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ike I said, there are hardly any perc hunter anymore, and they only do it because of the fact that they can win by defeating the weak perc. 





Man, have you ever tried perceptor hunt? Or even pvp? You completely don't know what you are writing about. Most of alliances don't start fight by defeating and focusing on perceptor, because it is total dishonorable. There are almost no players that start fight by defeating perceptor and thats not because of its high or low hp. Its hp is low af and the perceptor fights could be ended in 5 minutes if everybody focus on perceptor. Anyway nobody do this.. rethink twice before you write anything under this topic.. Typical pvmer.
Btw. there are dozens of perceptor hunters. Are you playing on heroic server or what?

If perceptors become stronger, then fights will be much more balanced. Thats all. Also in weaker alliances the perceptor may have any chance to surwive against e.g. solo attacker or in 2v1+perc."


I don't have any idea why the third time somebody deleted my comment.

 
Gunnerwolfang|2019-01-16 09:14:26
FYI: Perceptors are not players. I didn't say that they can't be killed in 1-2 turns. What I am saying is that it would be unfair to attacker if they can't be killed in 1-2 turns, because the fight would be 5vs6.



"It is much harder to defend perceptor, than to kill it and the reason is logic (already organised attackers vs chaotic defenders, that have limited time to join) even when a well organised alliance is attacked, all of defenders are in much worse situation (they don't even know what the arrangement on map and do they need more cc or range characters and may be already in e.g. kolossium fight or during a final fight in dungeon etc.)"

In this situation it is totally fair to improve perceptor's skills. 
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FYI: Perceptors are not players. I didn't say that they can't be killed in 1-2 turns. What I am saying is that it would be unfair to attacker if they can't be killed in 1-2 turns, because the fight would be 5vs6.

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