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Ankama Trackers

Permanently Link Dofusses(except Vulbis) to Character/Account to

By ALIENFISH - FORMER SUBSCRIBER - May 25, 2019, 15:03:08

Hello all, 
Sharp-Turkey from server Echo here. 
As stated before, Echo is losing a lot of active players because of %OFFbuyers negatively affecting dofus enjoyment. They control dofus prices the way they see fit. Right now ochre dofus for example is only worth 20-25 mk anymore on echo and dropping. %OFFbuyers are making millions out of it without having ever earned one theirselves fighting against each other to drop is as low as possible in order to maximize their profits. 
Thus, yet another improvement idea:
Link all dofusses permanently to the character/account. (I prefer account). This way we can get players to actually play again instead of ripping people off. 

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I actually really agree. I hate that the dofus can be traded. It makes their value much lower and makes them less of an accomplishment to have. 

We'll probably get people who only like PvP hating on this idea and I can understand why but I also think you should not be able to get everything from simply PvPing. I think there's little challenge in that.

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-X-Ashley-X-|2019-05-25 20:06:49
I actually really agree. I hate that the dofus can be traded. It makes their value much lower and makes them less of an accomplishment to have. 

We'll probably get people who only like PvP hating on this idea and I can understand why but I also think you should not be able to get everything from simply PvPing. I think there's little challenge in that.

I'm glad you agree with me wink also, that's why I prefer linked to account, so they still have the option of having their low lvl pvp character on the same account.
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I also agree with this because of how I feel about the matter. I never understood the concept of *selling* a Dofus, because they are an item which should be earnt and not just something you can get by shelling out some currency. If PvP players don’t like it, well... PvE players already have to put up with recipes which require PvP only items, when the items created using those recipes sometimes literally only find use in PvE content(soul stones, idols, just to name two examples). So while I don’t know if it’s right to feel this way, I don’t see why PvE players need to get PvP items in recipes for PvE only things(iirc even the scales for the Emerald Dofus require a pebble from the Kolo shop to create, if you’re not bothered spending hours and days waiting for a mere chance to catch a Cania Bandit before all the other farmers to get them) while the PvP players get what I’d consider one of the most valuable things in the world, which has an use in both modes, for not nearly as much effort as it actually takes to obtain the Dofus(unless I’m mistaken that grinding professions or whatever way you prefer is more effort than doing the quests for the Dofus and [possibly] obtaining the items required for them).

And while you might say a player shouldn’t be able to get everything from only doing PvP - I say that this rule shouldn’t apply to items which are literally completely useless in PvP. Don’t see why I need pebbles and nuggets for soul stones and/or idols if they are only ever used for PvE content. Unless you have a plausible reason and explanation for it, then I’m all ears.

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I prefer to have "Options".
Limiting our options to just acquiring dofus ourself is, in my opinion, not conducive to growth. Not everyone have time or patience to acquire a dofus. Not everyone wants to multi-account or invest time on getting good equipment to accomplish hard quest, or team up (or get carried) with others in order to get dofus.  "You do you, we do we", meaning, go ahead and acquire dofus yourself, but don't remove other's option of doing things their way, which is to simply buy/sell them off/to others. 

If you want value and accomplishment when you get dofus, then why not link all equipment and remove trade altogether so that we can get all the value and accomplishment from all the gears and equipment that we ourselves acquire. Now that seems ridiculous, but that is the slippery slope that linking dofus for accomplishment do. You are trying to remove trade interaction and making the game more anti-social.

"fighting against each other to drop is as low as possible in order to maximize their profits."
I don't think they are maximizing profit by dropping their price. If you meant dropping buying price, then that is the law of supply and demand in economics. That is not a problem, it is just the effect of having high supply with low demand. Basic economics. Entrepreneur can buy low for profit, and quester/grinder can sell surplus for profit. That is exponentially better than total economic stagnation.

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We don't need dofus level value with the other gear. Dofus are supposed to be special and have more value. That's in the lore itself! 

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Gunnerwolfang|2019-05-26 03:44:22
I prefer to have "Options".
Limiting our options to just acquiring dofus ourself is, in my opinion, not conducive to growth. Not everyone have time or patience to acquire a dofus. Not everyone wants to multi-account or invest time on getting good equipment to accomplish hard quest, or team up (or get carried) with others in order to get dofus.  "You do you, we do we", meaning, go ahead and acquire dofus yourself, but don't remove other's option of doing things their way, which is to simply buy/sell them off/to others. 

If you want value and accomplishment when you get dofus, then why not link all equipment and remove trade altogether so that we can get all the value and accomplishment from all the gears and equipment that we ourselves acquire. Now that seems ridiculous, but that is the slippery slope that linking dofus for accomplishment do. You are trying to remove trade interaction and making the game more anti-social.

"fighting against each other to drop is as low as possible in order to maximize their profits."
I don't think they are maximizing profit by dropping their price. If you meant dropping buying price, then that is the law of supply and demand in economics. That is not a problem, it is just the effect of having high supply with low demand. Basic economics. Entrepreneur can buy low for profit, and quester/grinder can sell surplus for profit. That is exponentially better than total economic stagnation.


Gunnerwolfang, I appreciate you giving your opinion, I don't need everyone to agree with me. A discussion and debate is what I opened this thread for. BUT assuming I'm trying to make the game anti-social WHILE you don't think teaming up with other players in order to earn powerfull assets is the way to go, makes 0, literally 0, sense. 
If you're going to participate in the debate please do behave in a civil way and don't spout random nonsense. You can search for debate rules online. The players are running away from Echo because of %OFFbuyers ruining their game experience, that is a fact. The game is meant to be played, not to be abused for profit. That's what we, as players, want. To return to an active playerbase which have fun and play the game as it's meant to. That will attract more new players, who will stay longer.

So don't come here with your "basic economics". And if you do want to go that way, what happens in economics when everyone migrates away from a country? Exactly.

 
Gunnerwolfang|2019-05-26 16:20:57
" The players are running away from Echo because of %OFFbuyers ruining their game experience, that is a fact."

Where did you pull your fact?
Where does it says that players are leaving because of %OFFbuyers?

I am also not against other teaming up with others. I just don't personally do that but I do not try to remove that option. Stop your random nonsense claiming that I want the removal of player teaming up with others, try to be civil (pot kettle black). You want to team up with others, go ahead, you do you, but do not stop others from doing what we want. Stop forcing us to not interact thru trading dofus.

I " pulled that" out of dozens of people telling me that's the reason when I ask them why they're leaving the game

In no way did I insult you or any %OFFbuyer. I want a debate and decent options on how to make the game more attractive to new and returning players. What I do not want here is nonsense arguments like you've given me. If you want to spread fake news, do it somewhere else, not here.

What I want is for the game to prosper because that will make it even more fun for everyone. Echo is dying. And if you feel offended by the fact %OFFbuyers are one of those reasons, then that's your problem. If you have any decent ideas or arguments that make sense, I'll be happy to hear them. But not this. This is a forum, not 2019' politics.

 
Gunnerwolfang|2019-05-26 16:20:57
" The players are running away from Echo because of %OFFbuyers ruining their game experience, that is a fact."

Where did you pull your fact?
Where does it says that players are leaving because of %OFFbuyers?

I am also not against other teaming up with others. I just don't personally do that but I do not try to remove that option. Stop your random nonsense claiming that I want the removal of player teaming up with others, try to be civil (pot kettle black). You want to team up with others, go ahead, you do you, but do not stop others from doing what we want. Stop forcing us to not interact thru trading dofus.

You just made a fool out of yourself again. That's exactly what you do. Look, if you want your way that's fine, but just write something along the lines of "I want profit without effort and without working with other players towards a common goal".
No need to come up with terrible lies or false arguments. You have the right to an opinion, but don't try to manipulate people.
If you think getting everything for free is worth the enjoyment of so many other players along with risking the death of the entire server and having to merge once again, you're pretty egocentric. And that's your right.
And it's the right of other players to try and save the community and the server. 
 
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" The players are running away from Echo because of %OFFbuyers ruining their game experience, that is a fact."

Where did you pull your fact?
Where does it says that players are leaving because of %OFFbuyers?

I am also not against other teaming up with others. I just don't personally do that but I do not try to remove that option. Stop your random nonsense claiming that I want the removal of player teaming up with others, try to be civil (pot kettle black). You want to team up with others, go ahead, you do you, but do not stop others from doing what we want. Stop forcing us to not interact thru trading dofus.

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ALIENFISH|2019-05-26 09:43:44
 
Gunnerwolfang|2019-05-26 16:20:57
" The players are running away from Echo because of %OFFbuyers ruining their game experience, that is a fact."

Where did you pull your fact?
Where does it says that players are leaving because of %OFFbuyers?

I am also not against other teaming up with others. I just don't personally do that but I do not try to remove that option. Stop your random nonsense claiming that I want the removal of player teaming up with others, try to be civil (pot kettle black). You want to team up with others, go ahead, you do you, but do not stop others from doing what we want. Stop forcing us to not interact thru trading dofus.

I " pulled that" out of dozens of people telling me that's the reason when I ask them why they're leaving the game

In no way did I insult you or any %OFFbuyer. I want a debate and decent options on how to make the game more attractive to new and returning players. What I do not want here is nonsense arguments like you've given me. If you want to spread fake news, do it somewhere else, not here.

What I want is for the game to prosper because that will make it even more fun for everyone. Echo is dying. And if you feel offended by the fact %OFFbuyers are one of those reasons, then that's your problem. If you have any decent ideas or arguments that make sense, I'll be happy to hear them. But not this. This is a forum, not 2019' politics. 

That is not fact. That is an opinions. Unsubstantiated opinion. I can claim that I talked to billions of players who are leaving because they don't like dofus to be linked, and say that that is a fact? I don't think so... That is fake news and nonsense. That is an "Ass Pull", you are inventing data and facts to support your argument.

I am not offended that %OFFBuyers are one of the reason why players are leaving Echo, I am just questioning your claim that that is a fact. because it is not a fact.


 
ALIENFISH|2019-05-26 09:43:44

You just made a fool out of yourself again. That's exactly what you do. Look, if you want your way that's fine, but just write something along the lines of "I want profit without effort and without working with other players towards a common goal".No need to come up with terrible lies or false arguments. You have the right to an opinion, but don't try to manipulate people.
If you think getting everything for free is worth the enjoyment of so many other players along with risking the death of the entire server and having to merge once again, you're pretty egocentric. And that's your right.
And it's the right of other players to try and save the community and the server.  

Where did I say anything about getting anything free, without effort and without playing with others? Buyer/Seller system is a trade mechanics that is based on equivalent exchange. The buyer exert equivalent effort to acquire kamas to buy, and the seller exert equivalent effort to acquire dofus to sell. There is no free in that mechanics. Where can you get free kamas or free dofus anywhere? You are making a strawman argument.

It is everyone's right to try to save the community, but you have to understand that you cannot save the community by removing a buy/sell mechanics that others partake in. I am merely trying to make you understand that removing buy/sell dofus could end up destroying the community more when those who only gets dofus that way decide to quit (or even new players who realize that they are at a disadvantage against those who already have a dofus, who might be overwhelmed by the unfair power gap).

Yes, I know you mean well, you just don't have any idea what your suggestion would do to others and the game in the long run. You just think that players will be happy that they accomplished something worthwhile, oblivious to the fact that others will not feel that way. By removing buy/sell dofus, you only get a "Win-Lose" scenario, while having buy/sell is a "Win-Win" scenario where questor and traders/buyers are all happy. 








Think about this.... If you think that acquiring dofus is better in the long run, because it brings about satisfaction to those who acquire them, and prevent %OFFBuyers from manipulating the economy.....

Then why not multiply that enjoyment and satisfaction by removing all forms of trade? Wouldn't everyone be more happy and satisfied in knowing that they've accomplished so much?

I don't think so. 

I am not saying that you want to remove every trade, that is just my example how satisfaction thru acquiring things yourself is not viable as a game mechanics on a game played by many players. 

BTW: There are 3 types of people.
1. Those who are fooled by others. :wacko:
2. Those who fools others. biggrin
3. Those who acts like a fool in order to make a fool of others. wink
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And once again you have not given me one single argument that made sense.
1) You know damn well that kamas are bought with real life currency when nothing sells. So don't say it requires "effort".
2) Even if they aren't bought with real life currency %OFFbuying requires no effort thus no effort was put in for these kamas.
3) The "unfair power gap" as you call it won't be affected by my idea. On the contrary. It will tighten.
4) This is what the players want so LESS people will quit. Ask around.
5) Currently it isn't a WIN-WIN situation at all. It's a WIN-LOSE situation with everyone playing in Echo on the losing end and the only ones winning are the %OFFbuyers who did nothing to deserve it. In that case you can better make it a LOSE-WIN situation so those who put in effort get rewarded. That's what this entire thread is about and what you apparently didn't grasp.

6) Why pull it into the extremes again? At no point did I propose such a thing. A large part of %OFFbuyers income comes from dofusses. Limit that and people might actually start playing again, instead of afking and parasiting on other people's efforts.

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Edit: This was supposed to be a reply in the above post.

I don't think the PC standard is dying at all. Just because a bunch of exceptionally greedy companies decided to profit off the microtransaction model on mobile doesn't mean that the PC standard is dying. The mobile audience was simply a much larger audience to begin with and making casual games where spending money = progress appeals to a larger group of people. I'm sure that was always the case. 

I think people who like that should play mobile games and leave the PC games alone. 

By the way, look into the Nintendo Switch. Almost nothing microtransaction-based about it and do you see how well it's doing? Just to point out that microtransaction greed isn't necessarily the future. 

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Nintendo is indeed trying the old school PC model but are greatly out sold by mobile model.

https://kotaku.com/nintendo-is-reportedly-toning-down-micro-transactions-i-1833100622
"At the same time, Nintendo doesn’t seem to have completely shied away from the microtransaction model. Super Mario Run, free to try and then $10 for the full game, failed to meet sales expectations when it came out in 2016. Fire Emblem Heroes, microtransaction-based gacha game like Dragalia Lost, meanwhile, brought in five times as much revenue as Super Mario Run during its first year."


Yes it is fine to think that the old PC model is better, but the reality is mobile microtransaction model is the future.

"It's no surprise given the above that Nintendo chose to also adopt traditional mobile free-to-play monetisation mechanisms for its third smartphone title, Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp," said Randy Nelson, head of mobile insights at Sensor Tower.



I don't care what you think or what your personal opinion of PC model vs Mobile model... All I know is that big game game companies have more research than you and are switching to mobile model because that is the future of gaming. I myself enjoy playing casual pace mobile games with better graphics and more exciting storyline than dofus, that I do not need to look around for other players to play with. I'd rather believe the words of big game company than your personal opinion. Ankama can listen to you and be stuck in the past glory days of PC model or they can move forward to the future of gaming.

Have you actually seen the new mobile games nowadays? They are actually very good. Good graphics and immense storyline with dismissible microtransaction. A lot of old classic games are now being ported to mobile play like Final Fantasy series. Don't look down on mobile gaming until you see its state right now. Some mobile games are a lot better quality than dofus. Don't be stuck in the past, the world is evolving, changing. Learn to move forward. Ankama is losing players because they are not evolving fast enough.

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Hello, quick answer - if you guys think OFF - Buyers destroy game is that stupid? Everyone is free person and have chooice between selling and keep stuff for yourself ... Its simple.

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I dont get it. How does linking the dofus to accounts make it more valuable? Are you talking about kamas value or personal value? Because dofus kamas value will be worth nothing if its linked to accounts (compared to its current kamas value of 30mk) and if you're talking about personal value, nothing is stopping you from giving it the value you want (hence why its called personal value)

If you find personal value in having items with high kama value, there are already items in the game with higher kama value then the dofus that you can work towards.

Some people arent % off buyers and actually do the dofus quests for the sole purpose of gaining kamas (which is how all the dofus get onto the servers in the first place, they arent just bought into existence) and this account link would screw over those people and their way of gaining kamas.

If dofus were linked in an attempt to stop people from buying dofus with kamas or real money or anything, people will just resort to buying and selling accounts with all the dofus already on them.

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1)I said nothing about this measure increasing the value.
How many more times do I need to say that I suggest this measure in order to reduce the profitability of %OFFbuying, thus hopefully reducing the number of that kind of players, thus having more active players and less people leaving Echo?
2)It's not about a high "kama value" it's about achieving something.
3) People don't actually make kamas anymore from questing the dofus since price keeps dropping while necessary ingredients don't. (e.g. Crimson costs 4 mk on Echo right now, while 20k roses of the sand ... also cost 4mk, and that's only one step). Okay, some dofus might at the moment still earn a bit of kamas, but for how much longer? Are we gonna wait untill the game is completely fucked and we lost another ton of people?
4) Mind that buying kamas/in game items/accounts with real life currency is against the rules you signed when making an account and can(should) get you banned.

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Can anyone explain to me what it means that “mobile is the future of gaming”? Does it just mean a shift towards a microtransaction model prevalent in mobile games or a larger shift of games towards mobile platforms? I primarily play on my PC and Xbox so I wouldn’t be too keen on their decline in favor of mobile games, which may never get to the point of being as good a machine as a PC or console. At least, likely not in my lifetime.

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This thread is already too convoluted that adding this discussion in might not be the best way to discuss this. I would suggest that you open a separate thread for this discussion.

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Basically, asian gaming scene is shifting to mobile gaming and mobile games are earning exponentially more than PC/console games combined that Triple A developers are shifting their resources towards mobile platform.

Mobile gaming is not just about accessibility, it is also about affordability and convenience. The only drawback is quality, but with the advancement of mobile technology, it won't be long before mobile games' quality would be at par with PC/console games.

Asians who can afford to pay for games are working so they hardly have time to play. So it is more efficient for asians to play on mobile devices because they can play in between work and anytime they have free time without needing to sit at home in front of a PC/console.

While most mobile games do have gambling microtransaction, it is not as greedy as PC/console gambling microtransactions. Mobile games with gambling microtransaction are free to play and you can complete the game without needing to spend money. PC/console charge costumer for the game with subscription or one time payment then charge again for more contents (DLC) and then charge again for gambling microtransaction.

PC/console games are being sold at around $60 and bought by about 50,000 to 100,000 asians who can afford to pay that much so they usually earn 3-6 million dollar. Mobile games on the other hand are designed to sell about $10 on microtransaction and 1-2 million asians can afford that so they earn as much as 10-20 million (these numbers is just my personal view, it varies from game to game but this is just the pattern in my opinion).

https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/
Asia Pacific reached a revenue of 51.2 billion U.S. dollars, making them the largest gaming market in 2017. (NewZoo, 2017)​ 

76% of customers prefer to play games on mobile devices while 62% prefer playing on PC/Mac. (Applause , 2016)

China covers 41% of the video game market revenue worldwide, making them the first on the list as of October 2017. (NewZoo, 2017),


https://newzoo.com/insights/infographics/china-games-market-2018/
The 619.5 million players in China will spend $37.9 billion in 2018, which makes it the biggest games market in the world. Mobile games will generate $23 billion of this number, with PC games and console games generating $14.4 billion and $0.6 billion, respectively.

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Well alright then. I can certainly see where that shift is coming from, but I’m not sure if we can currently really relate Asian trends to Western trends. Different culture altogether, and while there may be some correlation I would assume that the people living in say, Europe and the USA have a little more free time to spend on their games even if they work. Unless I’m completely mistaken of course, in which case feel free to correct me.

It certainly is true that mobile games offer a fast pick up and play experience without requiring a large investment in time, but I wouldn’t see it basically killing off the PC and console markets because each one covers their own niche(though you could argue that both correlate to some degree with games that can be played on either platform, but console exclusives are still a thing, and some may not be able to afford a top of the line PC or one good enough, and the associated things like a monitor, to run modern games, so a console could be a better option).

Plus, if the numbers mentioned are correct, then wouldn’t it primarily be the western countries who buy PC and console games which make you pay for them and (try to) bother you with RNG packs and whatnot, because they have more free time outside of work(excluding other hobbies, children, animals, etc)? While there is certainly a shift towards mobile games I don’t really know/can tell if it really is any “threat” to PC/console when either of them is made for different purposes, “needs” if you will.

And I don’t support RNG packs. I won’t buy them from any game, especially when I have already paid 60+€ for them. I would think that some of the lower revenue could also be down to the fact that there’s a number of people who are getting tired or are already tired of scummy “business tactics”, which can also result in lower quality games because people who have gambling addictions or lack of self-control will buy these packs in 100s if not 1000s, meaning the dev could put out a average or less than average game but still reek in more money than they deserve for it. I’m surprised this practice is still existent, yet alone allowed, in countries. I don’t know where it started nor how, neither do I know how long it has been around exactly, but it should stop. Wish more countries would follow the example of Belgium more quickly, and not side with the million/billion dollar corporations. But when money is what rules the world and not common sense...


Microtransactions(although considering the price of some of them you can question if they really are still “micro”) which are guaranteed to give you a certain thing against a set price with no chance of any duplicate or RNG involvement are fine. Paid RNG is not. I knew some person who’d be fairly active on the forums of certain console games on a campaign against RNG in games, how they would refuse to buy anything which had lootboxes in it, for the sake of their children, though I don’t know where they’re at now. If more people just refused to pay for RNG it’d already have gotten much better in regards to the mess that it has caused, and how quickly the practice would be eradicated.

There really should be a more intuitive private messaging system on the website/forums, it’d suit itself to this kind of discussion, as I didn’t feel or see the need to create an entirely new thread for it but it isn’t pertaining to the main topic of the thread. The Gears of War forum has one directly implemented into the forum site and it works rather well. Ankabox is more like a mail service... one that hardly seems to find use and has a uninteresting UI.

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