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Some amendments to prevent abuse.

By AceHanson February 06, 2007, 05:11:31

I have noted few things, and I few that Ankama should do something about it, to prevent abuse.

I realise that players can abuse the use of support spells. Unlike poison from mush mush, most, if not all support spell still remain effect even though the caster, whether players, summons, or monsters are dead. Is this intentional?

Secondly, in view of the revision to the ap/mp resist system, it proposed tha glyphs effect should not be stackable. Otherwise, feca will be overpower, as it stop opponent AP/MP, and burn them

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I disagree with your point about "support spells". For things like poison, traps, glyphs, etc. there logically isn't an active will on the part of the caster to maintain it (i.e. once you're poisened, that's it... no further concentration is required). As for being too powerful, one has to keep in mind that it takes some time to set up a stacked spell that way... and if you're up against my Sadida, I don't think I'd give you that much time to think about it... ;-)

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Few points I wish to reaffirm...

1) I have no issues with any classes, in fact I have played various classes, including sadidas. Probably is the way I phased that gives you the wrong impression. I probably should termed it "duration spells" instead of "support spells".

2) However, I think you read me wrong. As you said, poison spell logically isn't active on the part of the caster to maintain, once you are poisoned, that's it... In other words, you are trying to say poison effects has no relationship to whether if the caster is alive or dead. Then why does "paralysing poison" now automatically expires when mush mush dies?

3) I have no intention to increase the power of monsters, neither do I have the intention to reduce the power of players. But I want here, is to get the basic concept right, otherwise, there would be nothing for players' or game developers' proposals (whether good or bad) to fall upon. If players think this will enhance a character, it is very high likely that they will bring it up in the forum, on the otherhand, if the game developer feel that certain classes are overpowered, they will reduce their abilities. Then, come to think of it, how often is a player's suggestions being taken, and what is the probability of a class being nerfed? If there are no form of basic concept, game developers can do anything they like (eventhough they already have the ability to do it now).

4) Coming to the gaming concept, I believe people who reads fantasy novels know that all spells will lost effect once after the caster dies, unless is a curse on the caster's death wish. Then why they only do it on 'poison spells" and not the rest of the "duration effect spells". Even if a spell can last beyond the caster's death, it is way to irrational that the spell remain the whole time until its time to expire. If this is so, then summon should have more reasons to survive even if the summoner dies, since they are given life (HP) and have their own AI. Glyphs are pretty much a new concept to me, as such I couldn't make much theory out of it. But I just feel that it will be overpowered, if they are stackable. But for traps, even the most cafty and skillful assassin will not have the ability to set up 2 or more traps on the same spot, and yet conceal them effectively. If it can be done, probably there will be a term call "a skycrapper of traps" d^.^b

5) Last point on the list, Tundston said: "I don't think I'd give you that much time to think about it". Probably you are right! Because its beyond my ability to do anything, neither is yours. Ultimately it is up to the game developers.

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Maybe give a chance for all players too potentially learn an invisible spell, but the one difference, is, it would'nt be recast-able

Say like... only castable for 5? turns; not re-castable.

Much like 'Summoning of Chaferu/Arachnee'.

Only able too learn, if a dungeon is complete.

(Just one of the ideas)

It would make spells that locate invisibleness - more valuable.

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AceHanson :
Secondly, in view of the revision to the ap/mp resist system, it proposed tha glyphs effect should not be stackable. Otherwise, feca will be overpower, as it stop opponent AP/MP, and burn them

Comments about the new AP/MP loss system belong in the Test Server section, as those ideas are not yet finalized.
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Well, I've noticed something with the Devotion spell casted by Dok Alakos. They give an infinite regeneration-esque spell, and they wear off once they die. Although some other spells persist when their casters die, yes. Very weird indeed.

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RalphSaint :
Well, I've noticed something with the Devotion spell casted by Dok Alakos. They give an infinite regeneration-esque spell, and they wear off once they die. Although some other spells persist when their casters die, yes. Very weird indeed.

I've noticed an Osa's tofu stay battling, I even compulsed it, and protected it, for 10 mins. But I digress.

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For some reason, Osas summons (and others) remain alive if the summoner gets DCed.
Probably a bug, but its a bit odd...

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I am not sure about summons surviving after the death of their summoner. Being and osams and sadis myself, I have never encountered it before.

Yes, I believe that some players now notice that some duration spells exist even if the casters are dead, while some are not. This in fact bring unbalance and irregularity to the game.

Just a thought that supports my earlier argument "Duration spells are meant to be broken upon the caster death". If this statement is untrue, then the history created by all the years of fantasy novels/comics/stories published are a bunch of craps. Heroies of any epic adventures will no longer be fighters, berserkers, knights, dragoons, sorcerers, warlocks, etc. but rather priests.

Since priests possess the two ultimate spells, "heal" and "resurrection", they can easily engage of bunch of noobs to cast support spells on them, and sacrifice themselves to the monsters, while the priest himself/herself will execute the finishing blow. Once after battle, all casualty are bring back to life again, and the whole scene will re-enact itself in the next battle.

Is this the type of fantasy adventure Dofus is creating?

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Oh, I forgot...
What I have mentioned above is only the basic of what fantasy games should look out for.

In fact, I should say, the game designer of Dofus have overlooked many many factors, and what a waste!
Dofus would have been a nice nice game, if all the factors are considered before its official release.

By making use of the basic concept, one will be able to come up with gaming mechanics that are convincing and more innovative.

For example: I have come our with a theory that are able to relate the players' characteristics points with the players spells, and I feel that they are much better than the current system in many ways.

Strength -
which means the power of a character should have the capability of enhancing the damage caused. This can be achieved by granting % damage bonus or damage bonus to spells and even physical attacks.

Agility -
which means the speed of a character should have the capability of influencing the number of spells a character can cast each turn, and probably the distance a character can move each turn. This can be achieved by reducing the AP costs of spells (for instance -1 ap cost for every 100 pts of agility) and increasing the MP of a character.

Vitality - which means the constitution or health of a character should have the capability of enhancing the recovery rate of the player. This can be achieved by shortening the delays of spells (for example -1 turn for every 100 pts of vitality, and increasing the speed of HP recovery through the emote skill "sit".

Intelligence - which means the mental prowess of a character should have the capability of concentrating their mind to what they are doing. This can be achieved by increasing the duration of spells (for example +1 turn per 100 pts of intelligence), and probably increases the no. of duration spells that is stackable.

Wisdom - which means the perception of a character should have the capability of determining the origin of the spells. This can be achieved by granting % effect bonus (for example, enhancing the effect of spells like -1 AP to -1 - 2 AP per 100 pts of wisdom)

Chance - which means the luck of a character should have the capability of affecting the critical rate of attacks. This can be achieved by reducing the rate of critical failures, and enhancing the rate of critical hit.

With this approach, not only is it realistic, players of whichever classes will also be able to select their own path of development, unlike the trend now: Chance enu, Intelligence feca, so so and so forth.

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Making it that way with stats effecting abilities like that would really make most characters the same and there wouldn't be a prime requisite for characters...

i.e. If all stats effected each class in the same way, there would be no HoT build eca vs bluff build eca etc.

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Sorry LecterLives, I don't really get you.

But I assume you are saying, with what I have proposed, most characters will be the same, and to make the matter worst, probably characters of the same class will likewise be taking a similar path of building their characters. Is this what you are saying, please correct me if I am wrong.

With regard to what I assumed you said, I need to point out the following:

All classes possesses a wide range of different spells. Some are effect based, some are damage based, some took a significant time before it can be casted again, while some required high AP costs. However, currently all these factors are taken care off based on the respective spells' level. As such, all players need to do is to boost the one or two characteristics that their spell are based upon, for example: strength for earth, intelligence for fire, etc. No extra attention is needed.

However, with my proposal, players have to decide which one is more essential, and establish a certain balance between the various characteristics. A character can yield great damage with high strength, but it would not be that efficient if the attack has a higher tendency to miss considering the low chance possess by the same.

Considering that all classes are developed under a similar platform, the powers between the respective classes will be more or less balanced.

However, I agree with what you said that this approach may at the same time take away the uniqueness of each class.

But, please do not forget that each class has their own set of spells which is totally different from the rest. If this is not enough, special ability may also be granted to each class to shape out their identity.

For example, Srams has 1/10 chance to blind opponent for x turns; Osas has 1/10 chance to charm creatures for x turns; Enis has 1/10 chance to heal themselves equal to the damage caused; etc.

Of course, even with this, I am not able to guarantee that players will build their characters differently, but at least one thing for sure, players are given more choices to select from. Isn't it so?

The line between balance and uniqueness is always hard to achieve in games, especially in a system where everything has more or less been finalised. As such, I hope you do understand that my proposal is rather limited to where it can goes.

If given the opportunity to come up with a totally new gaming mechanics, I may be able to prove what I have said so far.

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My main problem is that it would take away from the primary characteristic of each class. Why bother having intelligence, strength, chance etc, you may as well just have stats that are called

AP Gain
MP Gain
Spell duration gain

And stuff like that.

What I mean is, yes, most fecas only put up int, most sram only put up str (there are some other builds etc) but the main difference in classes now is the different equip combos and spell combos.

By taking away the increase in damage (or heals, or armour) from the stats, it takes away from the uniqueness of the classes.

I agree with you in that, there should be ways to put up AP/MP/duration of spells and stuff like that, but perhaps a combo of the current idea and yours would create a more interesting atmosphere. This would create a more 'realistic' game as well. Some people are faster than others, and so should have more MP. Would be good if the less equip you were carrying effected your MP as well. (no equipment could make you move 4 or somewhat)

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To ace: I see that you are trying to make this game better but keep in mind that this game is ENTIRLY based on the characteristics and the style of stategy characteristics give. So you are really taking about a whole NEW game if they made these adjustments, also im sure amkna wants a wide range of adiuence if you add that much complecity to the game some kids might not want to play this anymore

also i would like to see a more wider range of spells XD

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