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Ankama Trackers

[Official] Bots

By November 10, 2008, 16:33:03
Reactions 1413
Score : 25944
Arcade11|2014-03-27 03:51:57
lots of solutions to those minor problems
1. f2p members can only hold so much money say 1000 or 5000
2.f2p members can't trade amongst themselves consider it a perk of subscribing

plus there should be 0 bots because they have no reason to be there

What happens if p2p loses sub? they are limited to chatting on the p2p server till they subscribe again

There could be a way through ogrines to bring more players off the f2p server
1. So now you want to severely crippling new players from transferring their hard earned kamas.

2. And you do not want new players to experience the joy of trading with other players?

3. Why would bots have no reason to be there? Is it because there will also be no new players playing there? In that case, just close that server if there are noone playing in it. As long as there are players in a server, bots will also be there.

4. Limited to chatting in the p2p server? No trade, no battle, nothing??? How can the ogrine trade function if f2p trade is frozen... There is a reason why f2p's are allowed to trade and fight when their subscription run out. And besides, bots have billions of kamas to resubscribe anyway... Haven't you seen P2P bots before?

Your many solution to one problem only causes more problem to arise. If you keep adding more of these solution, there will be no more ways for legitimate players to enjoy the game while the bots will still find a loophole and continue botting.
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Score : 1284

This is pointless half the problems you have are not real problems at all, the other half have easy solutions. The only reason I can see someone coming out this strongly against a solution to the bots is maybe they benefit from them. Anyway nice debating with you, but this is pointless and getting me nowhere. Last thing I will say, the Idea that bot problem has no solution or that if your game is popular your going to have bots no matter what, is completely false IMO.

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I just had a potentially interesting idea. What if the resource protectors were considered by the game client 'invisible'? By that I mean it would be impossible to hover your mouse over them to view their statistics and the only way to attack them would be by targeting the cell on which they are standing. It would also be impossible to target them by clicking on the initiative bar, much like with invisible characters. I might be wrong here, but wouldn't that made it impossible for bots to determine their position? (as they probably can't interpret properly purely visual data)

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i think maybe something should be implemented in the mines that limits access, some kind of verification that you are in fact human or something like that to give you access to the resources.

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Hello,

I'm playing on the server Dark Vlad, and there is something that's really bothering me!

For the past months, our server has been flooded with bots, they are literally everywhere: kolo, mining, farming monsters for resources, cutting trees, ...

We have no active MODs on our server, which is in my opinion the bigger problem here, so because they don't get banned some bots reach endgame lvls!( I’ve seen 198 and 199 bots, and not just one at a time but teams of 3 vs 3 doing kolo!)

What bothers me the most is that, because we are a low populated server and already have a lack of professions on the server, we just can level our professions anymore ...

The bots are mining/cutting all the resources right in front of us ( copper, cobalt and cherry wood mostly).

I am aware that ankama is doing all they can to stop bots, but it has been months already and there is no improvement (is this just our server or not? idk ...), so please give me a status update, or at least a reason why it's taking so long to fix this!

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Score : 545
The main reason why eradicating bots is that long is because the creation is done by a computer and the moderation by humans. ANKAMA is looking to find ways to minimize the bots' encroachment, but there's no solution that can be done by computers. Because the bots are doing the same things as players, it would be tough for a computer to differentiate the real players from the false players. Therefore, the only real way to get rid of the bots is by getting some moderators to do this job. Still, moderators are humans and need to sleep, to eat, to do some thing with their family and all this stuff. These moments where the moderators aren't there because they have a life other than running after resources stealer, the bots are recreating themselves.

Hope it helped you
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i understand, but our mods are really inactive :p they only show up like once or twice a month, which isn't normal i suppose?

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Score : 27385
mkdsklldf55|2014-04-10 20:57:35
i understand, but our mods are really inactive :p they only show up like once or twice a month, which isn't normal i suppose?
Izmar, or perhaps Ankama itself, doesn't really view Moderators as the solution to bots it would seem. If they did then they would probably add more, even on the French servers they are always short of enough mods to actually make a difference, it would appear they prefer to use client-based methods to combat bots.

You won't get rid of bots until people stop illegally buying kamas though, no matter how many Moderators or anti-bot measures you have.

Realistically, you would need more Moderators per server than it would be feasible to have to really put a dent in bots. Or people who were paid to ban bots as a full-time job, not volunteers.

And no, I would say Moderators would probably be expected to log in more than once or twice a month. In-game Moderators anyway, it should be noted that most communities have forum moderators and in-game moderators, who have different responsibilities.
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Score : 146
Revil-Nunor|2014-04-10 21:29:23
Realistically, you would need more Moderators per server [...] Or people who were paid to ban bots as a full-time job, not volunteers.
Please, don't say that! Since one said it on the french board, we have to repeat over and over that it's not a sensible solution (since it's waaaaaaaay too expensive. Like, really really too much).

i understand, but our mods are really inactive :p they only show up like once or twice a month, which isn't normal i suppose?
Moderators are volunteers. They have no obligation at all. So that's normal, actually.
However, how do you know that they don't show up oftenly? I mean, I guess you are not logged 24/7 right? And furthermore you don't have the tools to see an invisible moderator. So I'm interested in your answer.

If some bots are annoying you, you are supposed to make a screenshot, with a /whois on the leader of the group of bots(or on the bot itself if it's not a farming one), and then send it to your mod. Yes that's clearly annoying, yes it's really slow to see them disappear after having signaled them, yes you have the feeling that you do it for nothing. But it's the only thing you can do.

The only real solution to deal with bots (like, exterminating them once and for all) is to either make players stop buying kamas on illegal websites (yes. It's their fault) or to have an automatized way to block them the access. And well, for the second option Ankama works on it, but either it does no work, or the bots' developer end up countering their defense. And so, since around 10 years?

So, yes. Until they get destroyed, you have to play while they annoy you. And everyone (especially Ankama. Don't worry, french players post around... Ten topics a day about bots)is aware of the problem.
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I know that moderators are volunteers, and i appreciate it what they do for us, but on our server (Dark Vlad) you rarely see them ( i know i'm not online 24/7 but we are a small community so i know prety much everybody on the server and no one sees a mod on regular basis), and if you send a mail to the mod it sometimes takes a few weeks for him to answer (which doesn't help against bots because they just create new chars even quicker then a mod can ban them)

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Score : 27385
Please, don't say that! Since one said it on the french board, we have to repeat over and over that it's not a sensible solution (since it's waaaaaaaay too expensive. Like, really really too much).
I know it isn't going to happen, you can read this entire bots topic and it is broached and refuted multiple times, but you are looking at it from the wrong point-of-view in this case.

If Ankama wants to get serious about removing bots, they would need to get serious about Moderators, volunteers are well and good, but they will not commit anything close to the amount of time needed to actually dent the bot numbers. I am not saying it will happen, I am not saying it should happen, I am simply saying that it would HAVE to happen to get the kind of results that the first poster wanted.

mkdsklldf55|2014-04-10 22:42:26
I know that moderators are volunteers, and i appreciate it what they do for us, but on our server (Dark Vlad) you rarely see them ( i know i'm not online 24/7 but we are a small community so i know prety much everybody on the server and no one sees a mod on regular basis), and if you send a mail to the mod it sometimes takes a few weeks for him to answer (which doesn't help against bots because they just create new chars even quicker then a mod can ban them)
Izmar is your CCM, if you have a problem you have to tell her, she is the only person who can add more Mods or change the culture. Telling us does nothing.

Moderators are volunteers. They have no obligation at all. So that's normal, actually.
This is bad logic, view Moderators as volunteer firefighers or police officers. When you apply and agree to be a Moderator you are agreeing that you will be obligated to spend x hours every day or week working on whatever tasks you are given. If you can't handle it then don't apply, it is as simple as that.
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And how do i contact Izmar? (never done this before :p)
nvm found it smile 

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Click here

I feel I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that Izmar isn't stupid, and she is probably much more aware of the situation with bots than any of us are. If she chooses to keep Moderators at the level they are at, she has good reasons for doing so.
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Is it not an option when you right click on someone you think is a bot and then make a option, Report for : language bottage *insert more reasons* instead of the system we have now ?

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Well... I don't know for your community, but we have a lot of immature people. If there was such a tool... Well three days later, there will be half bots, half real players reported. Because they will have won in kolo, because they won't have agreed to powerlevel someone, because...

Of course, it would be a LOT easier with such a system. But there are too much flaws in such a tool.

Even if all players used this system for good reasons what would make bots unable to use it to flood moderators with fake report?

So, no, definitely, the report system isn't good at all. Sadly.

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Score : 7681
trololol0|2014-04-13 15:51:10
Is it not an option when you right click on someone you think is a bot and then make a option, Report for : language bottage *insert more reasons* instead of the system we have now ?

Someone suggested the exact same thing a few weeks ago. And so I'll just quote my answer from a few weeks ago:

Schmendrick|2014-03-25 21:15:08
Yeah, it'll be more convenient for players, but you're still going to have to wait for a moderator to come online and check the reports, and they'll have to weed through all of the reports to determine which are legitimate reports and which are griefers trying to get players they don't like banned... and, worse, the bots themselves could abuse the system by reporting everyone they see, burying the legitimate reports.

I mean, it's a good idea in theory, but it's hardly a one-step solution to all problems. It has plenty of problems of its own.
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I'd really like there to be a way for me to legitimately report these botters running around. I currently own my own 8 man and have played this game since 2006. Seeing these guys run around and earning everything that i wasted so much time and effort for pisses me off. If there is somewhere I can actually report the botters to, would be good to know.

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So my opinion is that getting rid of bots requires attacks on the purchasers, not the suppliers. My idea is simple: When a large amount of kamas (5-10mk or higher?) is transferred between two characters, without something of value traded to the person providing the kamas, a log should be kept wit ha short investigation, specifically on the supplier. Bans (A 1 week ban then perma? Or just perma?) could then be handed out, Bots are here because people buy kamas. Get rid of the buyers and the problem is solved (over the course of months).

I'm fully aware that I'm probably missing something here. Feel free to tell me what it is/they are.

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My Idea to get rid of harvest bots is to improve the mechanics of resource protectors. Whether being intended to interrupt harvest bots or not, I think this system may effectivly be used to stop players from exploiting the current harvesting mechanics. Therefore, some unpredictable, random effect needs to be added to the protector fight.

One idea would be:

- After a fight, the protector drops a parchment that displays a randomly generated number (at least 4 digits).

- This number must be readable on the screen but not possible to be copied from the game window.

- Instead of returning to the same map, the player gets teleported to a locked/blocked map, where he has to enter the number (the same way you enter a code to enter a private house or open a private chest) in order to return to the original map.

- As a compensation, the player may trade a certain number of parchments for a job exp or resource bonus. This bonus should higher than the current drop from the protector, so legit players will be able get a decent benefit.

In addition, I think that the frequency of protector fights should be considerably increased. The most annoying bots just farm one type of resource (e.g. cherry wood) and will only very rarely get trapped in a protector fight. Therefore, the frequency of fights should rise by the level of the resource. The benefit would also be that legit players would be able to get more resources while sharing the same harvesting place.

Of course this system would be a very dry and mechanical way to stop bots, but it might help to quickly improve the situation as it is today. Telling from my own experience, most new players get annoyed by these miner or lumberjack bots quickly and quit soon after testing the game. On a later stage, maybe the randomness system could be turned into a mini dungeon for harvesting professions, that would also add more fun to the profession in general.

- Annie Flappy

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I thought of something. How about new resource protectors? However, they will be invulnerable and have high damage like about 50 per turn. Way to beat them? Uhm, I don't know. You guys think of something. ^^ Basically, what i'm saying here is make them like frigost dungeon bosses or like gourlo or stuff. smile Also, they maybe able to work around it and adapt but that might take some time. Won't it? Plus, I'm sure if they ever do, you guys can improve it in some way to make bots unable to reveal the protectors' vulnerability but in a way, real people will. Like probably, with spell name color. For example, the protector will cast a spell like e.g. "Shield". It will be displayed in a random color (brown,red,blue or green) which I think bots cannot detect. Or can they? The spell must have only one name, or the bots may be able to adapt due to text characters. Then, the color will be the vulnerability e.g. fire for red etc. etc.. However.. the protectors will have to be different for each class because not all classes have all elemental spells. This will be plenty of work, but I think it is a start. I don't know if this has been posted already, but tell me what you mods think about this.. Thanks! ^^

OH! I just thought of another one, what about human triggered captcha? Like, if I suspect this miner in this mine i'm mining on is a bot, I will press his name, then click "bot challenge" or something like that. Then, a captcha will pop up on his screen and he will be frozen and unable to act or do anything until he gets the captcha right. The duration of the captcha minimum would be 15 minutes because farmers often leave their screens unattended when they queued up plenty of harvests. Although, bots will probably do this on real people so they don't get challenged themselves but, a human will be able to get the captcha right without any trouble. Plus, once a bot starts harvesting, he won't be able to challenge a human, this should be enough time for the human to challenge him. Tell me what you think about this one too guys.. ^^

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