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Trackers Ankama

BANDITS DE CANIA

Par Staiv - ABONNÉ - 21 Avril 2020 - 19:23:04

Bonjour Ankama je tiens à faire un sujet pour vous faire part de notre mécontentement envers une quete inutile surtout sur des serveurs surpeuplé comme Ilyzaelle . En fait je ne comprend pas l'utilité de la quete si ce n'est que de faire rager tous les joueurs les uns contre les autres , et patienter sans meme pouvoir jouer afin d'avancer la quete  . Merci de nous proposer une solution afin de pouvoir jouer dans de meilleurs conditions car cela devient insupportable . 

Réactions 5
Score : 1000

+1 cette quête rend fou on finit à + de 40 sur la map tout ça pour voir des gens qui n'ont pas besoin de la quête et qui lancent à 2.

De toutes les mécaniques du jeu, le respawn de ces mobs est probablement l'une des pires.

Score : 165

Y'a des topics dessus depuis des mois, dont un "principal" ^^' https://www.dofus.com/fr/forum/1069-evolutions/2294924-bandits-cania-ilyzaelle

Score : 157

On s'en fou , Go en faire plein pour + de visibilité . 

Score : 165
Worst quest design ever?

So, another day has passed where I stood in front of my screen for 10 hours straight to maybe find one of the two remaining bandits I need. Here I am going to be discussing how this quest is the worst possible design and point out every single problem I found during all these days of hunting. Hopefuly Anakama will listen to reason for once and so something about this as soon as possible.



FIRST PROBLEM: what was intended X what was created.

When the team of people designed the Cania Bandits quest they probably wanted to create two challenges: One beeing having to find the bandits in a large area, which is no problem at all. Second would be the fight itself, since the bandits are not weak by any means, and since the dofus is lv100 you would expect people around that level to be joining the fight wich makes it even harder. But that's not what happens these days ...

In overpopulated servers such as Illyzaele finding the bandits has never been the problem. We have 10x8 groups of players spread out trhu the spawn zone of each one of them, just waiting for them to spawn. The searching problem is solved in 60 seconds. Seems good right?

The fight has been solved as well. In every fight there are at least one or two leechers that can easily kill the bandit and drop the scales for everyone in the fight. Awesome.

But what does this mean? In other words, the fight itself is not a challenge at all anymore, but the search for the bandits (which is solved in 60 seconds after they spawn) created a challenge far worst then anything that was expected.

The challenges Anakama probably wanted to make were easily solved, but they created something else. Unless the next "challenges" (more like giant ass problems) I'm about to mention were in the designers heads then it's safe to say they messed up REALLY bad ...



SECOND PROBLEM: the repop time in overpopulated servers

The current repop time of each bandit is 3 to 9 hours, that gives a 6 hour window for them to spawn. In a normal server where you might have a couple hundred people in the hole server that are in that quest it is not really a big deal. You can easily kill all 3 in a matter of 2 days on your own. But when we talk about Illyzaele, which has a 2,000 player queu just to LOG IN every day in peek hours things work differently.

Considering the server has around 92,000 players you would expect a couple of thousand have already reached this quest, considering it is one of the most famous quests in the game, plus the Emerald is the first elemental dofus average players go for. All things considered we are talking about a very big player base doing the Emerald quest. When I did the Emerald, I got to the Cania Bandits quest in less then 24 hours. Pretty easy. Now, I know since Emerald is one of the main dofus its quests are suppose to be hard. But with a 3 to 9 hour repop and with THOUSANDS of people stuck in the same quest it becomes insane. Let me explain, since the designers DEFINATELY NEVER did this quest on their own, otherwise it would have been fixed by now.

Since there are thousands of players stuck it is natural some are actively trying to do it while others already gave up. I can not tell for sure how many people are trying and how many gave up, what I can say for sure though is that there are AT LEAST 200 different players looking for them EVERY SINGLE DAY. Now, these players organize themselves in searching groups of 8 people. One stays in the tent checking if the mob has poped, the other 7 stay on stand by, ready to look for him as soon as he pops. It would be ok if there was only 1 or 2 groups of people per day. But in server like Illy we are talking about 20+ groups that come and go looking for them for 24h. And since no one knows when they are going to spawn that creates other huge problems which I'm going to talk about.

As you can see, every day we have hundreds of players wasting 4 to 10 hours just waiting for the badits to spawn. It is a HUGE waste of time. If you combine all the hours players have activly spent on this quest im pretty sure everyone would be shocked. And the only reason for that is that the repop time is not nearly as fast as it should be considering the amount of people who needs to kill them. It is possible to check this if you see the amount of players left out of the fight that are just staning on the map ... it looks like the rune market in a x2 xp day.



THIRD PROBLEM: waiting for repop is a nightmare that has nothing to do with RPG

Since no one knows exactly when they are going to spawn and since there are always another 50 players on stand by waiting for the moment when everyone goes running you can pretty much never leave your post if you want to have a shot. That means all these people, all the people in those groups (most of them at least) have to stand on a map DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, waiting fot the mob to spawn. So here you can see what a HUGE WASTE OF TIME this is. And we are not talking about waiting thirty minutes or one hour. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 4 HOURS AVERAGE PER BANDIT, and considering there are 3 bandits, this takes us to 12 hours (of doing nothing) at the BEST CASE SCENARIO PER PLAYER, but probably less then 1% of players get all 3 bandits in 3 trys, average players will take 6, 7, 8, 12, 20 times to find all three, but why is that? Another problem to talk about.

So tell me Anakma, how is this supost to make us want to play the game? How is this suppose to be exiting? THERE IS NO WAY I GET EXITED ABOUT PLAYING WHEN I KNOW IM GOING TO HAVE TO WASTE 6 HOURS OF MY DAY DOING THE SAME THING AS YESTERDAY WHICH IS THE SAME THING I DID THE DAY BEFORE THAT AND THE DAY BEFORE THE DAY BEFORE. I think you get what I'm trying to say here.

Now, some might say you can do something while you wait, you can be productive, read a book, watch a movie, but the truth is: IF I WANTED TO WATCH A MOVIE OR READ A BOOK I WOULDNT BE PLAYING DOFUS, ID BE DOING THOSE THINGS, WHY DO YOU THINK IM HERE? I want to play but the game wont let me.



FOURTH PROBLEM: acctually getting in the fight

Now, let's say your group is the lucky one (out of the other 4, wich I'd say is the average number of groups looking for them between every repop) to find the so wanted bandit and you think now you can rest in peace . THINK AGAIN MATE. Once the bandit is found by a group member, it's not like he can just wait for all the group to arrive on the map, get all organized to the fight and do things all pretty. Whoever finds the bandit has to grab it as soon as another player comes to the map, because it will 100% of the time be a player from another group that is also looking for the bandit.

That means all the other 7 members now have to go blasting from their position to the map the mob was found. And here Anakama is going to punish you even more for attemping to do this crazy quest.

There are 4 factors that will stop many players from reaching the fight before it starts.

First: you are simply too far away from the fight and no matter what you do you wont be able to reach it. And yes, that happens. Sometimes the nearest zaap or means of transport will be so far you wont be able to reach the fight in time no matter what.

Second: you are not far, but your pc sucks. If your pc sucks and it takes more then 1 second to load each map you are fucked. Many times you will do everything right but wont be able to get there because the maps simply did not load fast enought for you to run thru them, even with all graphics at the lowest. Ankama then condemns those with a bad computer.

Third: an unfortunate accident. Your group has finally found the bandit and you are ready to go to it, but when you are about to choose the zaap you missclick and end up somewhere else, or you take the second fastest rout, or you go trhu a path that is blocked and have to go back one or two maps to get on track again. Whatever it is, your mistake costed you 5 precious seconds which will result in all your effort and time wasted going to shit.

Fourth: a combination of the previous 3. The fact you have a bad computer is not going to be solved on your next attempt, getting a very bad zone to guard combined with the fact the bandit spawned too far from the fastest means of transport is just bad luck, not even a bot would make it. In other words, you are fucked.



FITH PROBLEM: Emerald market price X its benefits

Emerald dofus is the first primordial dofus, its quests introduce you to many game mechanics, such as breeding mounts, learning new spells, capturing souls, finding wanteds, amongst many others. The quests are simple but may take some time and might be challenging for unexperienced players, but they correspond to the bonus the dofus gives. Then why the hell the price of Emerald is higher then Torquoise and Crimson? Since those are higher level dofus, provide better bonus, and they're quests are ment to be harder, why the hell are they cheaper? Simple answer, because of the Cania Bandits quest.

The price of the Emerald on highly populated servers is higher not because of the bonus it gives or the rest of the quests, it is because of this single quest. There are three ways of doing the quest: you can buy 5 of each fragment and create all the 3 scales, you can kill the bandits or you can drop the fragments. A combination of these three options is also viable. Theoretically the cheapest way is killing the bandits because the price of each fragment goes from 400,000 to 700,000 (in overpopulated servers) and since you need five of each we are talking about 8,000,000 spent on all of them. Most people don't have that kind of money laying around, and with that amount you can acctually buy two Emeralds, so you dont even need the quest. You can also try to drop the fragments with treasure hunts, it will take you dozens of hunts per fragment and to be honest no one finds 800 treasure hunts to be an interesting thing to do. Now for those who choose to acctually kill the bandits like the game designers probably wants us to do, then you will have to face the other thousands of players who also chose to go that path. But by now you can probably see how demanding that path might be.

About the fragment drops, it is not really a viable option because you can't tell how many hunts you will have to make to get them all. Differently from the Crimson where you can see the current number of roses going up every hunt and synthesize your progression, the Emerald, in the other hand, does not allow you to know how far or how close you are of achieving your goal, since fragment drops are ramdom. So you can expect to be 10 hunts away while you are acctually missing 100 or even 200, and the unknown can be extremely frustating to players, especially on a quest that is so time consuming.

Simply put, what Anakama is saying is this: "Only do this quest for the sake of the 50 achievement points, because if you are here for the dofus the best way to get it is to grind the money to buy it. Doing the quest for the dofus is simply not worth it ".

So they create an endgame quest for a mediocre dofus and expect to recieve positive feedback. The only reason why the Emerald is so expansive is because this quest does not make ANY SENSE AT ALL. Crimson requires 20,000 roses of the sand, but that is ok, it is a healthy challenge! I can search for the roses on my own in a couple of days and do other things while that, and the fact I am colecting them doesnt mean other poeple cant do it too. But when you tell thousands of people to look for the same mob 3 different times and they can only be killed by 8 people at a time with repop of 3 to 9 hours ... YOU CREATE AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE. Its no wonder why such a mediocre dofus costs so much. Even though the demand for the dofus is not big, the quest is so insane the price wont ever go down! THIS MUST BE FIXED NOW.



SIXTH PROBLEM: how are casual, unexperienced and busy players suppose to do such a quest?

What kind of casual player is going to want to sit their ass and do nothing but wait during dozens and dozens of hours to have CHANCE of getting ONE out of THREE scales that they need? Not only that, but the searching groups also impose their own challenges.

Since searching groups have a complex dinamyc and are mostly composed of french speakers, how is a casual non frech speaker suppose to find one of the bandits? The french comunity is the biggest on all overpopulated servers and so far I have not been to one single group where the main language wasnt french. Simply put, Anakama fucks with everyone that doesnt want to learn french and want to do this quest.

Also, in order to be accepted in the group you have to understand how the searching works using this site  https://wondearthful.forumgaming.fr/p1027208-les-bandits-de-cania  and sitting your ass down for 6 hours without ever leaving the screen for more then 10 minutes. Why 10 minutes? Because in order for your group to be effective and have a chance you must respond to the zone checks every 5 to 10 minutes to see if you and everyone else is on they're corresponding zone, otherwise you will be kicked out of the group.

Now I ask you, what kind of player do you think is able to fullfill all those requirements? Only people who have six hours to spare every single day and are willing to spend them in such a dumb way. But average dofus players have their own lifes already, they have responsabilities, work, collage, ALMOST NO ONE HAS THAT KIND OF SPARE TIME TO PUT INTO ONE SINGLE QUEST.

Anakma is depriving all kinds of players from doing a simple quest to get a simple dofus. They turned what was suppose to be a nice and friendly learning experience into an endless nightmare.



SEVENTH PROBLEM: the quest is so boring and hard people simply give up

This question is to everyone doing the quest today: How do you feel when you wake up knowing that you will have to wait another 6 hours doing nothing for this quest?

I can guess your feeling: angry, disappointed, impotent, useless, anxious, and the list goes on. But the worst feeling the gamers will have and that haunt gamer companys the most? Not wanting to play. No one wants to log in to play dofus for this and I'm sure all the people that do, feel absolutely disgusted about this quest. How could they not? It is the most unproductive, dumbest ass shitty quest I have ever seen in a RPG and it seems like Ankama does not give a shit about this and wants to make us suffer for several months until they fix it.

Stop and think about the amount of people that don't have the time or will to understand every aspect about the bandits and simply gave up. Thousands of people on every overpopulated server for sure. How come Anakama doesnt do anyhting about this? They acctually don't give a fuck about this? This is not a problem to be fixed tomorrow or next week, this must be fixed NOW!



EIGTH PROBLEM: it is such a stressfull quest that it is acctually worst for your health then it already looks

You would think: spending 6 hours with you ass on a screen doing nothing for several days is already bad for your health right? Well I'm here to tell you it gets worst.

When you wait you don't wait six hours for nothing. You wait for something. And in this case all your waiting comes down to one single moment: the moment when the tent guy says "GO" and dozens of players go blasting thru every possible map the bandit could have spawned. And for 60 seconds you look in your zone and you wait. You wait for someone to link the position of the fight. And when you get there you find out that the fight has already started, you were too late and the mob is beeing killed by 4 people and their knights. The fight ends and only three of them had the quest. You just lost 6 hours of your day for this moment and that is your reward. Congratulations.

WHAT KIND OF QUEST DESIGN IS THIS? YOU REALIZE THIS IS EXTREMELY UNHEALTHY FOR NEARLY EVERYONE THAT ATTEMPTS IT? NOT TO MENTION HOW DISRESPECTFUL IT IS WITH THE COMMUNITY!

The stress also comes when the people from your own group fight you because you didnt make it to the fight in time: "you were not fast enought, you are a noob" or when they fight over a little mistake someone did like not ringing the bell and calling for help when they got inside the fight so the clock would run slower. All those factors accumulate and in the end of the day, when you spent several hours and got nothing at all, it feels like shit. Feels like giving up and moving forward, unsuccesfull.

How can Anakama allow such a thing to happen? The answer is simple: none of the designers acctually did the quest under the same conditions as the average player does. It is obvious they will treat this problem like it's no big deal at all.



NINTH PROBLEM: I know it's ment to be hard, but this is out of control

The title of this chapter speaks for itself, we all know this quests are not ment to be easy but there is a line here you cannot see. On servers with low population the quest is not hard at all, if you are lucky you can do the whole thing within 24 hours, but on overpopulated servers it becomes so time consuming and difficult that it is not even fun anymore. It is boring and makes people angry. It feels like an insult.

The reason for this is that the quest has one component that is mutually exclusive, that means that if one person is doing it, others can not do it as well, they can only wait for their turn. And that creates a bubble that wont ever pop. It's like a bag full of water filling up but only one drop of water comes out at a time, and the bag is about to explode. What I mean by this is that there are more people getting stuck in the quest every day then finishing it and the people stuck are getting mad. This bag of water is mutualy excludent, if one drop of water comes out it prevents others of using the same escape rout. And this is exactly what is happening here.

This would not happen if the quest was not mutually excludent but was still hard. People would only get stuck if they were lazy or didnt use the right strategy. They could get a little frustated but that would be all. Instead, you choose to deprive hardworking players who spent hundreds of hours trying to do the mission you porposed from succedding. It's not suppose to work and sure as hell it aint working.



CONCLUSION

Now, the list of problems with this quest could go on and on forever, I didn't even talked about the new fragment aquisition process (wich is absolutely ridiculous and tripled the price of each fragment) or of how many things you sacrifice doing in the game and on your life during the time you are waiting for that single moment when everyone goes running, only to know that in the end it was all for nothing. There are definately other problems that I did not saw or experienced but the community definately suffered with. Right now I'm tired of this text I wrote and I am tired of this quest you made. I will still do it the way it is but I'm hoping something is done about this.

My sugestion is decreasing the repop time from 3 to 9 hours to AT LEAST 2 to 6 hours. It will make things a little better but I wouldnt be surprised if negative feedback still kept coming. Also rework the fragment aquisition process, because the way it stands combined with the difficulty of finding the bandits makes the quest unbearable, its like you make buying the fragments hard as an incentive to hunt the bandits, but you managed to make the bandits even harder , so it makes no sense at all. You could even create a repop time for every different server according to their population, wich should be more appropriate and efficient. I am also sure other community members and the team working on this (if there is one) may find different solutions and suggestions for the problem, but honestly, there are already more then enough complains and suggested solutions for something to be done!

To be totaly honest, you can even keep the quest as it is as long as you increase the bonus of the Emerald dofus. This way the high dofus price and high quest difficulty would match and it could acctually become a worthy challange. Unfortunately right now none of those things have been achieved. The Emerald bonus is mediocre and currently I would risk sayin that this single quest takes more active time to complete then almost all other dofus achievments (not a single quest, but the hole achievement itself) in the game.

I don't know if Ankama realized it yet, but people aren't failing beacuse they didn't put in enough effort or used a bad strategy. All the hundreds of players currently locked in this quest already use all the best possible strategys and put in all the effort they can. There is no sense on keeping this going! This is blasphemy! This is madness! "Madness? THIS ... IS ... ESMERALDaAaAaAA!" (Leonidas when contested while programing the quest code).

I know some lucky players that have not been thru this will dislike the things I said, but then I suppose it is very likely they did not read the hole thing or did not go thru the hole quest, experiencing some of the difficulties I mentioned here . The lucky ones that did it in two days and 4 attempts will be the first to criticize, that's for sure. But those who are average players and putted their time into it will sympathize with at least one or two of the things I said.

Also keep in mind that making the quest less hard does not mean it will be easy by any means, and I honestly think it should not be easy, but as it stands we most definately need an emergency rework.

I'd also like to say that I am sorry if I offended anyone from the staff with this complain, but the quest made me so mad that I just had to let something out of my system.

Hopefully this text reaches someone important and something is done about this. I know this trhead has been around for a while and nothing considerable has really been done about it, but that only goes to show that we cant stop to report on this issue, it is killing a part of the game.

I wouldnt be surprised if this text had no effect at all, but that would only prove my point: Ankama does not care about this quest and the thousands of people involved, and does not have their priorities straight. I know there are other updates to be made, new things to ad to make the game more attractive for new players, but fixing this problem is about making old players happy and making it possible for the new players to become old players one day. And remember, this is a problem to be solved TODAY, not tomorrow, not next month. Reducing repop time is and easy fix and I see no reason why it shouldnt be done. I hope Ankama realizes that.

My name is Yogananda and I am currently looking for the bandits on Illyzaele. Every day I log in and wait 10 hours hoping for a miracle. If you want, send me a private message and maybe togheter we can see a happy ending for once.
Score : 502

La quête est tout bonnement mal pensée.

Comment peut t-on inciter un joueur à rester entre 3h et 9h devant son écran sans pouvoir en bouger sous peine de manquer un bandit ? 

Honnêtement, je crois que je n'ai jamais vu une quête pareille. Qui a pu valider un tel processus ? 

Sur Illyzaelle c'est encore plus problématique.

Nous sommes d'innombrables groupes à rechercher des bandits et il est clair que le facteur chance pour trouver l'un des trois bandits et très très bas.

On va nous dire qu'il n'est pas nécessaire de ne pas bouger de l'écran? Et bien si. 
Si nous trouvons un groupe il est fréquent que ce même groupe établisse ce qu'on appelle des "checkzone" environ toutes les 5 à 10 minutes. Donc si l'on part faire à manger nous serons banni de notre groupe durant cette période car nous ne pouvons plus couvrir l'une des zones ou le bandit peut apparaitre ce qui bloque le groupe en notre absence et réduis leur chance de trouver le Bandit AVANT les autres.

Un bandit ne reste pas plus d'une minute sur une map. Il est vite trouvé par des groupes ou même pris par des personnes n'ayant pas la quête. 
Ou encore pris par des groupes qui ne prendront pas la peine d'attendre d'être 8 mais joueront le combat à 2,3,4 joueurs.

Ajoutons à cela : 

Notre distance par rapport à notre groupe. Même si nous sommes dans un groupe qui trouvera le bandit rien ne dit que nous entrerons dans le combat selon la zone du bandit. Les joueurs qui font la quête me comprendront j'en suis convaincu. 

Mais encore bien au delà des facteurs chances et tous les problèmes liés au fait de tomber sur un bandit (et je parle d'un bandit là mais on doit s'en taper 3) il y a notre vie personnel à nous.

Actuellement en période de confinement certains me diront te plains pas y a que ça à faire. Et bien non. Nous n'avons pas tous QUE ça à faire de rester devant notre écran à attendre l'apparition d'un bandit durant des heures.

En dehors du confinement pour  un joueur lambda qui n'est pas hardcore la quête lui est tout bonnement inaccessible car son temps de jeu se situera surtout le soir après le travail pour une durée de 2 à 3h si ce n'est encore moins!

Comment tomber sur un bandit dans ce laps de temps et ne passer que son temps de jeu la dessus durant des jours voire des semaines sans se lasser du jeu et de cette quête? 

Franchement le système, bien que le temps de Repop ait été divisé par deux, reste totalement nuisible à tous.

Il faudrait clairement changer le système.
Le pire. Ankama a dit an 2019 que le système actuel ne leur convenait pas. Un an après la solution proposé a été de diviser le temps de repop. Mais en quoi cela change le système qui ne convient pas à Ankama? 
J'ai pu lire qu'Ankama ne souhaite pas que la difficulté soit trop basse pour l'obtention d'un Dofus. Je suis d'accord à 100% sauf que là on ne parle pas de difficulté mais de chance pour tomber sur chaque bandit.

Je suis un joueur d'Illyzaelle et cette quête se voit beaucoup plus difficile sur celui-ci. Impossible non, mais ce sont des joueurs qui ne font que ça de leur journée sur Dofus qui obtiennent le Bandit. Pas des joueurs comme moi qui jouons à moindre temps que d'autres. 

En jeu on a pu me dire qu'il me faut faire ça de nuit pour les avoir plus facilement. Et bien non, je refuse de passer des nuits blanches pour obtenir un Dofus et délaisser ma famille à côté pour un jeu. 

Le système doit être modifié car il n'est clairement pas normal de faire subir ça aux joueurs. La quête dégoûte clairement du jeu. Je ne dis pas qu'on en quitte le jeu mais on s'en arrache les cheveux et ça ne donne pas envie de se connecter pour continuer cette quête. 
Alors on la laisse de côté et on fait autre chose. Sauf que nous n'avons pas le précieux Dofus. 
On me dira : Achète le. Il vaut moins cher qu'en achetant les fragments en HDV et on y gagne par rapport au temps passer à trouver les bandits bla-bla-bla. 
Bah non plus ce n'est pas une solution pour terminer la quête. La quête restera bien là et certains veulent finir eux mêmes les quêtes sans avoir à dépenser une somme gigantesque de kamas pour terminer celle-ci.

Un fragment c'est environ 500 000k que l'on additionne par 15. ça monte très vite et très haut. 

Je trouve qu'il serait peut être bien de trouver une solution différente comme par exemple : 

  • Bandit apparu : disponible pour plusieurs combats de groupe comme par exemple pouvant être engagé 5 fois (comme les utilisations de portails dimensions mais avec moins d'utilisation)
  • Bandit fixe avec une difficulté équivalente au lvl de la quête
  • Possibilité de rejoindre automatiquement le combat de groupe via une téléportation proposé pour ceux qui sont à une zone beaucoup trop éloigné pour rejoindre à temps le combat...

Ce ne sont que des idées mais il y a pas mal de choses que l'on pourrait développer pour améliorer ce système totalement inégalitaire et injuste.
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